Author Topic: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter  (Read 15006 times)

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Offline SteveThackery

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Re: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter
« Reply #75 on: June 04, 2025, 10:48:49 pm »
Dear Mr lobster,

Respectfully and with kindness: you need to stop.

You are trying to "design" a circuit without having any idea of what you are doing. Indeed, without any idea of what the circuit is supposed to do.  Nor have you any idea of how to draw a schematic. You seem to seriously underestimate the discipline of electronic engineering: it is emphatically not anything like the "chuck some components at it and hope" approach you are using.

You're supposed to understand the underlying theory before designing a circuit. Otherwise, how can you know how to design something if you don't know how it actually works?

Are you trying to bolt something together from bits and bobs you've found online? Because it certainly doesn't look like a coherent design to me.

I urge you to give up on this design mess. Throw it away and consider the tried and tested alternatives you've been given earlier in the thread. You aren't ready to roll your own, trust me.
 

Offline lobsterTopic starter

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Re: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter
« Reply #76 on: June 04, 2025, 11:29:11 pm »
I don't doubt that at all. However, I worry if I don't list a BOM, someone will object because they want to see a BOM.

Having all those specific mfgr. part #s is not gonna help.
A reasonable schematic will.
 

Offline lobsterTopic starter

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Re: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter
« Reply #77 on: June 04, 2025, 11:39:11 pm »
D1 and D2 are not Zeners. They are Schottky.

Is it the connection between Q2 base and SEC_COIL_OUT_N that you are saying is bypassing R4 and R6?

Why are D1 and D2 zeners?

R4 and R6 don't seem to do anything - they are bypassed by the other wire going to the transistor.
 

Offline lobsterTopic starter

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Re: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter
« Reply #78 on: June 04, 2025, 11:45:35 pm »
Steve,

I appreciate your candor. That said, I am not quite ready to throw in the towel just yet. Without an idea of what's wrong, I'll be hard pressed to figure out what's right. I am on this forum specifically because I understand that there are complexities beyond my present understanding. I don't pretend to be an electrical engineer. I have been looking for constructive criticism, suggestions, etc. There has been quite a bit of it and much of it makes sense and is helpful. That said, if the thread or my efforts frustrate you, by all means, you're under no obligation to assist or participate. Perhaps you had a bad experience with a lobster but please remember I'm not that lobster. Each of us lobsters are distinct individuals with unique tastes and flavors. I have yet to claw anyone in this thread.

Lastly, please note there are female lobsters. Not all lobsters are men. Not all lobsters interested in electronics are men.

Truly,

Lobster

Dear Mr lobster,

Respectfully and with kindness: you need to stop... I urge you to give up on this design mess... You aren't ready to roll your own, trust me.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2025, 12:37:22 am by lobster »
 

Offline Analog Kid

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Re: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter
« Reply #79 on: June 05, 2025, 12:03:29 am »
I don't doubt that at all. However, I worry if I don't list a BOM, someone will object because they want to see a BOM.

Having all those specific mfgr. part #s is not gonna help.
A reasonable schematic will.

No they won't.
Nobody's going to give a shit about there being no BOM for a meshugah, non-working circuit.
 

Offline lobsterTopic starter

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Re: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter
« Reply #80 on: June 05, 2025, 12:15:03 am »
Okay, but if anyone does, I'm sending them your way, amigo.  ;D No more BOMs for the time being.

No they won't.
Nobody's going to give a shit about there being no BOM for a meshugah, non-working circuit.
 

Offline Analog Kid

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Re: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter
« Reply #81 on: June 05, 2025, 12:32:19 am »
BTW, if youse is from Boston or the East Coast, shouldn't that be "lobstah"?
 

Offline lobsterTopic starter

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Re: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter
« Reply #82 on: June 05, 2025, 12:36:50 am »
I'll have you know that the cah is not fah from the bah. That is definitely not an entire Eastern Seaboard thing. It's very much a New England thing. I haven't even visited there in perhaps five years.

BTW, if youse is from Boston or the East Coast, shouldn't that be "lobstah"?
 

Offline UnijunctionTransistor

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Re: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter
« Reply #83 on: June 05, 2025, 01:24:41 am »
The power section: what I meant is the oscillator circuit which provides the actual power to the output.
 

Online MariuszD

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Re: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter
« Reply #84 on: June 05, 2025, 07:19:59 am »
13- current can't flow between v_sys and v_sys
14- you decided to make short circuit around the potentiometer. Potentiometer does nothing
15- 1MOhm parallel to several kiloohms does nothing

You did something with things that I mentioned but I don't see any thinking behind it. You can't fix it because you don't know how it is expected to work.

Take proven circuit and build it. It is hard enough for a newbie. It is expected that proven circuit will not work when assembled by a newbie. There will be some errors to find and fix. It is easier to find errors when you can compare to the working example.



 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2025, 07:24:23 am by MariuszD »
 

Offline SteveThackery

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Re: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter
« Reply #85 on: June 05, 2025, 11:07:30 am »
I appreciate your candor. That said, I am not quite ready to throw in the towel just yet. Without an idea of what's wrong, I'll be hard pressed to figure out what's right. I am on this forum specifically because I understand that there are complexities beyond my present understanding. I don't pretend to be an electrical engineer. I have been looking for constructive criticism, suggestions, etc. There has been quite a bit of it and much of it makes sense and is helpful. That said, if the thread or my efforts frustrate you, by all means, you're under no obligation to assist or participate.

Lobsters are the closest thing to an alien lifeform I've ever seen (apart from the octopus, of course). 😄

Trust me, my comments are not fuelled by frustration in any way. They are fuelled by your responses to people's suggestions, and your overall approach to the job. I truly don't want to discourage you. I want to help get you on the right track. Right now you are on the wrong track.

This is what the wrong track looks like:

You are trying to run before you can walk. You are trying to design something without sufficient understanding of the basic principles underlying how it works. But most important of all, your idea of the design process does not reflect how design is actually done.

Your approach to design seems to involve throwing together a circuit with no understanding of how circuits work, asking for assistance ("how do I make this work?"), throwing a load more components into the mix in response to the answers (again, without really understanding why), asking for more assistance, removing a load of components, asking for more assistance, rinse and repeat, until you eventually home in on something that ought to work.

This is what the right track looks like:

Proper design is a careful, logical process based upon a good understanding of the basic principles. It's like building a machine: everything must fit, everything must have a purpose. As the designer works through the design process it is quite common to simulate sub-sections of the circuit and to build prototypes to test for correct functionality. It is not unusual to break the design into functional modules which are gradually integrated into the whole as the design proceeds. It is also the case that a good designer will look for reference designs which might move them along (on the basis that reinventing the wheel is not good engineering).

Your approach is nothing like that. And it shows: even your current effort has basic, fundamental mistakes which prove that you just don't understand what you have drawn.

I think the most important thing for you now is to take a breath, put what you have done to one side, and start again.  I suggest you write down exactly what you want your device to do. Think in terms of inputs and outputs, what should happen when. Then, I would probably start a new thread, and instead of asking "This is my circuit, what should I do to make it work?" I would ask:

"I need a circuit which fulfils the following requirements. How should I go about the design process?"

And then describe in detail what you want your circuit to do. Put forward your thoughts on how you might break the circuit into testable sub-sections.  Point out similar circuits and reference designs that you have discovered and think might be helpful.

I think if you took that approach people would be much more able to help you.

Anyway, this is just what I think. Obviously it's up to you. But maybe think about it, at least?

I've been doing some background reading on you. Apparently you can taste with your legs and hear with your body - that's cool! Ears are so last week. But the best bit is that you can regrow missing limbs. I must say, though, that I would find the regular moulting a real drag. 😉
« Last Edit: June 05, 2025, 11:10:31 am by SteveThackery »
 

Offline SteveThackery

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Re: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter
« Reply #86 on: June 05, 2025, 11:14:24 am »
Is it the connection between Q2 base and SEC_COIL_OUT_N that you are saying is bypassing R4 and R6?

Yes.
 

Offline SteveThackery

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Re: Push-Pull BJT Slayer Exciter
« Reply #87 on: June 05, 2025, 11:43:15 am »

1-  why diode is shunting BE? Why you want to divide the current? how you suppose to control this division (it is temperature dependent)
I had originally included them to protect from reverse voltage spikes. From your question and other Slayer designs, it appears this is not necessary to include. I'm going to remove them altogether.

2- why there are two diodes?
Addressed in prior reply. I removed one as this was thought to add redundancy. As mentioned in 1, above, I'm just going to remove them altogether.

As an ex-reliability engineer I am genuinely impressed by your instinct to build resilience and redundancy into your circuit. You put two diodes in parallel to provide redundancy: if one fails, the other will continue to provide protection to the transistor.

Forgive me, but this, though, is another example of you designing without understanding. Before considering redundancy you should perform a failure modes and effects analysis (FMEA). This will then inform your choice of how to provide redundancy (more specifically, how to mitigate risks to reliability).

Diodes have two failure modes: short circuit and open circuit. With the exception of rectifiers in a circuit with very high currents, most diodes fail short circuit.  That is, short circuit is the most likely failure mode. Imagine your circuit where the two diodes are protecting the BE junction of a transistor from reverse voltages. If one of the diodes fails short circuit it will short the base and emitter connections and the transistor won't work. So the second diode (the one providing redundancy) cannot take over and keep the circuit working.  Only if the first diode were to fail open circuit would the second one keep the circuit working and continue the reverse voltage protection. But open-circuit failures for diodes in this kind of role are much rarer.

In fact, as currently designed, you have made the failure rate of the device worse, because either diode failing (short circuit, the most likely mode) will make the circuit fail. As an aside, if you want to make a circuit resilient to a diode failing short circuit, you should put the diodes in series, not in parallel.

In reality we wouldn't bother with protective diodes unless the circuit sometimes could apply an excessive reverse voltage to the BE junction. In that case it might be possible to design that out of the circuit.

Anyway, I'm not trying to teach you reliability engineering! 😄  My purpose is to give you an example of your "design without understanding" approach to circuit design. I hope you will see that I am not writing this to criticise you. I am giving it as an example of why understanding the basic principles is important when designing a circuit.

PS: I meant what I said earlier: it's great that you are thinking about reliability and resilience at such an early stage.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2025, 11:51:08 am by SteveThackery »
 
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