Sodium Ion Battery evaluation

[tom66]

The discharge curve is really quite different to a normal LIB (stolen from BatteryU).



There is no real cliff edge like LIBs... the battery seems to run almost all the way down to zero volts.

What little I did read about SIBs suggested that they are tolerant of being fully discharged whereas LIBs will typically experience damage when cell voltage falls below 2.5V or so, and minimum discharge at low temperatures (below -10C) should be limited to around 3V/cell.  The info I found said that SIBs may even be shipped completely discharged as it makes them safer to ship that way.

[eneuro]

The info I found said that SIBs may even be shipped completely discharged as it makes them safer to ship that way.

I also heard that Na-ion can be transported completely discharged, but maybe it depends on the specific battery model because their production and chemical composition do not have to be identical?

I'm currently looking at the datasheet of the Na-ion batteries I ordered and with the help of uncle Google I managed to translate from Chinese to English something like this: 

Standard discharge method
Refers to discharging at a constant current of 0.50C to a single cell voltage of 1.50V in an environment of 25.0±3.0℃
...
Discharge cut-off voltage 1.50V+/-0.05V
...

Just quickly reviewing this PDF for the Na-ion battery model: 18650E-1500 I don't see under what conditions it could be discharged and stored at three voltages of 0V 

[Psi]

Probably just a translation thing,  if you discharge to 1.5V the amount of energy left is practically nothing anyway. And you might consider that as 'completely discharged'

[eneuro]

if you discharge to 1.5V the amount of energy left is practically nothing anyway. And you might consider that as 'completely discharged'

I do not intend to discharge below 2.7V because the ATMEL MPU (Attiny85) is to be powered directly from this battery with BOD enabled.

HAKADI Na-ion 18650 1500mAh 3V were delivered by post at a voltage of ~2.55V   

[CobraScout]

The discharge curve is really quite different to a normal LIB (stolen from BatteryU).

The info I found said that SIBs may even be shipped completely discharged as it makes them safer to ship that way.

For sure, sodium ion battery is much safer than LIBs, see our sodium battery puncture test, no fire, no explosion...

[eneuro]

The nail test on a purportedly Sodium Ion battery...

Stupid tests.

[robint]

I had disappointing results with my Hikadi Sibs 18650 1500mAh, I only got 1100MAh after 6 disch chg cycles at 1C.  Not exactly exciting performance, but maybe others will come forward with their tests - BTW I used a ZKE AP20 tester - love it.

[eneuro]

Must be why they sold over a million before finally closing the plant down july 1990 after 41 years with only cosmetic changes.  2V 600cc did 55mph eventually  gave >60mpg. Designed to travel over a ploughed field without breaking a tray of eggs.  BTW average speed in London is 16mph .  And Wales only allows 20mph - you are just not paying attention

You seem to be reinforcing my point, the 2CV is vastly superior to the Citroen Ami toy car. 

It seems that Na-ion batteries are actually used in electric cars and this is one of the reasons why I did not buy in Europe a used Dacia Spring 2021 electric car based on probably Li-ion 28kWh batteries, seeing that cars appeared on the market with Sodium-ion batteries at similar price $15k and range  Sodium-ion JAC Sodium ion Battery CAR: How Does The Sodium-Ion Battery Works:

[robint]

Hmm that Vid smells of way too much Uber Hype, wait till next year. SiBs just dont have the energy density yet to compete (ie <25% of Lions).  Lifepo looks promising, getting cheaper AWS.

[eneuro]

SiBs just dont have the energy density yet to compete (ie <25% of Lions).

Nope, Nonsense, Li-ion batteries are flammable while Na-ion does not and this is one of the main reasons why I bought Na-ion batteries for testing, because they will be charged directly from the 230VAC 50Hz at home socket.
Lithium is a hard-to-find metal on Earth and Na-ion batteries are the killer of Chinese Li-ion batteries, so it is not surprising that there will be AI-generated comments suggesting the advantage of Li-ion-based batteries in EV compared to Na-ion, but it is obvious that the future of EV is Na-ion, and Li-ion batteries will be used in devices as before, where a greater concentration of energy is needed, but the energy stored in the small Li-ion battery packs is much smaller, which eliminates the risk of very difficult to extinguish fires caused by the failure of Ev where batteries are based on Lithium and have capacity >28kWh.
YT: Lithium-ion battery fires are on the rise. Are firefighters ready?

[robint]

I do hope we can get some up to date informed opinion on this board. Re-hashing very old 2017 news is hardly helpful

[johansen]

I do hope we can get some up to date informed opinion on this board. Re-hashing very old 2017 news is hardly helpful

So far this year, the FDNY says 66 fires have been started by lithium-ion batteries, killing five people. Last year, the city saw 216 fires and six deaths related to the batteries

https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/special-reports/e-bike-battery-fires

"Published June 5, 2023
2023 deaths have already surpassed last year's.
NEW YORK (BRAIN) — More people in New York City have died so far this year because of lithium-ion battery fires than all of last year, according to recently released Fire Department of New York statistics.

Entering June, according to FDNY data, there were nine deaths, and 64 injuries attributed to fires sparked by lithium-ion batteries. So far, 65 structural and 32 non-structural fires and 97 investigations into lithium-ion battery fires have occurred."

so it looks like things really took off in 2023. this year statistically NYC will have around 20 deaths if the trend continues.