HP 8563A Spectrum Analyser - display itensity problems

[on4top]

I got an HP 8563A cheap from an auction .
Sadly is has one annoying problem .

The softbuttons menu display is unreadable .. the rest looks ok .
Looks like an intensity problem .. altough the grid is readalbe also when is press the softkeys the intensity goes up .

Some video's

https://youtu.be/m1Afifr4KjI
https://youtu.be/ick3-ZGXzRI

https://youtu.be/jthVIPSRpto

[KE5FX]

Ditch the CRT altogether.    That's a nice box, and it deserves a nice display.

Edit: you might have to use Test Equipment Plus's LCD in that one, I'm not sure if SimmConn supports it yet.

[on4top]

Lol  yes i know there is an LCD converter kit available ( but $$$$$ )

[G0HZU]

At work we have quite a few HP8560A/E/EC and 8563E/EC analysers and I've not seen any of the CRT versions suffer like yours. Some of ours date back to the early 90s when we bought a few HP8560A models. They have all seen a lot of use over the years. Some in ATE racks and some in the design labs.

So it might just be that something has gone wrong in the Z axis on yours? I've got no experience looking inside this range of portable analyser but I've used them a lot at work over the last 20-25 years. Usually it's the keypad buttons that wear out on these. Very annoying!

I have an old HP8566A/B here and an HP8568B and I managed to improve the CRT display on both of these with attention to the Z board. Both of them had issues where the display trace was dim and the focus could not be set for the graticule and the display at a reasonable display intensity. I did this work a couple of years ago and it is still working fine today with a crisp bright display. The HP8566 is an A converted to a B and it has seen a hard life. I bought it as a cheap and tired ex rental unit about 5-6 years ago from one of the top rental companies and the CRT display quality was not good at all. I assumed the CRT was spent and put up with this for about 3 years until I decided to gamble on checking out the Z board components to look for problems. I think I replaced a couple of potentiometers and a resistor and readjusted it all and the CRT quality was simply amazing after this. I did the same changes to the HP8568B and got similar results (but not quite as good).

[G0HZU]

From memory, the display on the HP8560/3 is a 600x600 grid (as opposed to 10 bit on the HP8566/8) so you might not notice much degradation if you went to a VGA LCD display. However, we have quite a few of the newer HP8563EC models with the LCD (VGA) display and I don't like this display at all. At a casual glance/comparison it initially makes the CRT look tired and dated but the LCD resolution is poor and the colour choice for the grid and trace doesn't suit me. I sometimes can't tell the grid from the trace on the LCD models. It depends on the lighting.

If you do manage to restore the CRT performance it might also be worth cleaning behind the glass plate in front of the CRT. This can become dusty/sooty and make the CRT look very tired with a blotchy look to it. But you have to be careful not to let the glass fall to the floor! Do it over a table and not on a tall trolley. I nearly did this to one of my analysers here but managed to catch the plate in mid air as it made its skydiving bid for freedom...

[simmconn]

It looks like the 'normal' brightness strokes are not working but the high brightness strokes are. I would take a look at U207 and U210 related circuits, especially R250 and U207A. Artekmanuals has good quality component level information package (schematics) at a reasonable price.

The resolution of the spectrum display is reasonably good at 600 points. However many of the units out there are out of adjustment such that the curves look misaligned or segmented. TEP discontinued their 8560A/E kit earlier this year. If you would like to upgrade to an LCD display, you may have to look in the second-hand market, or wait for the SIMMCONN LABS kit.

[on4top]

 @simmconn tnx for tips !

just bought the manual and indeed it's verry good quality pcb level info .

Will sure look further in to this ..

[tipofthesowrd]

It could just be dirt behind the glass display. 
In these analyzers the air flow really creates a mess at the edges of the screen.
Especially if they were in an ATE rack for a long period of time.

[on4top]

Removed the glas plate and cleaned the CRT and Glas plate .

Much cleaner now .. but the problem stil exist ofcourse .

Also noticed "some" burn in on the crt tube .

Checked R250 ( 3,1 Mohm looks ok )  Will need further debug of this circuit .

[G0HZU]

It could just be dirt behind the glass display. 

Read my post again. I suggested cleaning the glass AFTER the original CRT problem had been repaired and the CRT display restored to normal operation. Even on a healthy CRT the glass gets quite grubby and I would recommend cleaning the plate every few years. The CRT display on these analysers can look very tired and blotchy once the analyser is quite a few years old and cleaning the glass makes a big difference.

It would have been nice if the original CRT display problem had been fixed first because that way the full benefit of the glass clean would have been noticed. I've seen and used a LOT of these analysers over the years in my day job. Much more than most people on this forum and I'm just giving the OP the benefit of my experience with them.

[simmconn]

Removed the glas plate and cleaned the CRT and Glas plate .

Much cleaner now .. but the problem stil exist ofcourse .

Also noticed "some" burn in on the crt tube .

Checked R250 ( 3,1ohm looks ok )  Will need further debug of this circuit .

R250 should be 3.16M Ohm, not 3.1 ohm. It's hard to tell if it is okay just by looking at it. Also the analog switch U207 is known to go bad after so many years in service. The Artek manual's pdf has some schematic symbols missing, making it harder to interpret. The original paper copy was said to be like that.

[on4top]

@simmconn

desoldered r250 and measured it  3.16 MOhm ( typo in other reply )

U207 seems this chip  Analogue Switch ICs SWITCH 4X SPST N.C. 16CDIP EXTCOM

http://www.mouser.be/ProductDetail/Intersil/HI1-0201-4/?qs=9OuAwqlOLJHN%252b1B22dDGNA==
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/465/fn3121-79366.pdf

seems not widely available ( if it is bad )

edit : according to digikey http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/intersil/HI1-0201-4/HI1-0201-4-ND/1062211

HI3-0201-5Z-N  should be a drop in replacement ..
http://be.farnell.com/intersil/hi3-0201-5z/ic-switch-analog-cmos-spst/dp/1561982?ost=HI3-0201&selectedCategoryId=&categoryNameResp=Alle%2Bcategorie%25C3%25ABn&searchView=table&iscrfnonsku=false

[on4top]

replace u207 today .. problem stays .  ( soldering an ic socket .. now original chip back in )

[SoundTech-LG]

Watching this closely, I have an 8560A that looks pretty tired and fuzzy...

[simmconn]

replace u207 today .. problem stays .  ( soldering an ic socket .. now original chip back in )

I would run some basic tests to confirm that U207 is bad before reaching for the desoldering gun. First check if the switch control signal is toggling. If it does not, trace it up and see where the signal stops. Then I would short the switch in question and see if the intensity improves. If it does not, the problem is likely not with the switch but in the downstream circuit.

[deepskyridge]

I had a HP 8591E with a bad display module, badly burned CRT and other issues. I picked up a brand new module from this seller on Ebay for $50.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Qty-LOT-NEW-HP-Agilent-2090-0539-CRT-Display-Section-for-8590-Spectrum-Analyze-/351781522402?hash=item51e7d00be2:g:oEYAAOSw~FNUY7~q

This was a simple replacement and took about 30 minutes.

Mabye this will fit your 8563A SA.

Gary

[carl_lab]

We have a 8591E with bad display (dark screen).
I've checkeded +5.1V, +12V, +15V, -15V at TP401-TP404 (OK).
What can I check at the display module?

[DC1MC]

I'm resurrecting this topic, I have an HP8560E, after repairing the power supply, I have the EXACT issue as the OP  , did anyone manage to solve it or the old X-Ray cannon (CRT) is done for ?
Strangely the display is nicely focused, and the highlighted alphanumeric is clear and crisp, also reasonably luminous.
Please help or the SA is going to be mercifully sold !!!

 Thank you for your help,
 DC1MC

 

[charlyd]

Hello in response of this topic in post #11 there are 2 screenshot i ordered te manual from artek manuals but got a 8560E clip without outlines so i delete the bunch and now i am looking for a manual like ON4TOP posted .  can somebody help me out.  it is for my 8563E unit.

my tube has the textboxes nearly visible… and when it is powered on let say 10 minutes they are not visible anymore.
but the help tekst and highlited items are very good visible.  for example the marker is very very bright.. and the line in the bottom also..

it this my tube or not??   let turn the question different who can i easy find out that it is the tube and not the raster.

or the other way arround.

[charlyd]

LEts open up this one again.  we are more then 6 mnd past and i managed to fix alle errors in the unit except the CRT/TUBE problem. i got in a swap tube from "...." ( name will come here if  i don t get response). but i got a tube for $150 which was more dead then my own tube. nearly no visibilty.

i think i have to start diagnosing the circuitry to the tube.  With my own tube it start let say not bad. but after 15 minutes. one part of the text is faded. the other not.   when i bring up the Firmware en revsion page it show with very much intensity and looks ok.
i can drop some pictures here to be more precise.

[charlyd]

i found some display response, intensity on te line generators arround U210  ( what simmcon says) but can not find any clip[ manual from the A2 board..   any hints? i have so much manuals from the 856X that i am a bit lost...

[Miti]

i found some display response, intensity on te line generators arround U210  ( what simmcon says) but can not find any clip[ manual from the A2 board..   any hints? i have so much about the 856X that i am a bit lost...

I assume you know there’s a brightness adjustment somewhere in the menus.

[charlyd]

yes miti, the intensity is set to 255 in the menu
i am looking for the 8563A clip.

[charlyd]

ok i found a schematic from my A2 controller and when probing arround U207 i discovered that when i short pin 2 and 3 of the Harris switch (it is written in an other manual to short out the switch pins) my picture looks ok.
getting the source of so called "DEF1" line it starts from a 74hct377 ( U507 ) and is TTL lvl.  5 volt. while the switch is -15 and +15  connected. so i am not really 100% sure if the switch is enabled on pin 1 with the 5 volt.

anyone probed arround in (M) area where U207 and U210 are located lately?

[George Edmonds]

Hi

The problem with a CRT display that loses intensity after a number of minutes is usually caused by a high value resistor going up in value due to the applied voltage across it.  Normally this only occurs with resistors say over 100K, but I have occasionally seen it with lower values.

George G6HIG