Microchip product repair within warranty.

[Arp]

My ICD 3 is emitting a high frequency, probably the inductor, so I created a ticket.

They want me to pay return shipping to Dublin, but from what I gather, EU legislation say customer should get the repair free-of-charge within a two year period. Still Microchip insists on refering to their warranty note that claims that I should pay the shipping.

Is it possible for Microchip to override EU legislation like this? I know here in Sweden they can't so I find this pretty odd

[8086]

The repair is free of charge.

[Arp]

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/faq/index_en.htm

Under EU law, within the legal guarantee period of two years, defective products must be repaired or replaced without any cost to the consumer. This includes shipping costs. So, in principle, the seller should cover all shipping costs (your sending the faulty camera to the seller; the seller's returning the repaired camera to you).

I've contact their legal department. Waiting for an answer...

[8086]

The very next paragraph after the one you carefully chose:

However, the seller may wish to examine the item to check whether it was defective when you bought it. In this case, you may have to pay to return the item and ask to be refunded the shipping costs if the seller agrees that it was defective.

Repair now, argue later. You can't force them to pay the shipping up front. That is definitely not covered by EU legislation.

[Arp]

Bastards. There is always that extra paragraph that I tend to subconsciously ignore 

Anyways I reckon I will cover the return shipping then, if they demand it. Allthough I couldn't find anything about a refund in their warranty note. Perhaps they subconsciosly ignored that part as well

[mikeselectricstuff]

I suspect Microchip regard it as a business-to-business sale, so probably not covered by consumer legislation.

[tom66]

Honestly, it still confuses me that Microchip charges a lot of money for programmers, software, etc. - surely their main business is encouraging chip sales so making these free or very cheap (in the case of hardware, selling at break even) makes the most sense?

[Arp]

I suspect Microchip regard it as a business-to-business sale, so probably not covered by consumer legislation.

My profiles states that I'm a student, and I made it clear that I was a regular consumer and not a business. Being their business they should be aware of these laws and not forward me to their legal department imho. Just found that very odd .

[David_AVD]

Where did you actually buy the unit from?

[nctnico]

Honestly, it still confuses me that Microchip charges a lot of money for programmers, software, etc. - surely their main business is encouraging chip sales so making these free or very cheap (in the case of hardware, selling at break even) makes the most sense?

Ebay is filled with cheap programmers. And some controllers (not from Microchip) don't even need an expensive programmer at all. It beats me why people pay $100 for hardware to save $0.5 on a chip...

[DaveW]

Honestly, it still confuses me that Microchip charges a lot of money for programmers, software, etc. - surely their main business is encouraging chip sales so making these free or very cheap (in the case of hardware, selling at break even) makes the most sense?

Ebay is filled with cheap programmers. And some controllers (not from Microchip) don't even need an expensive programmer at all. It beats me why people pay $100 for hardware to save $0.5 on a chip...

It depends how many products you'll be making...

[nctnico]

Indeed but those won't be complaining about a broken programmer. They just get the new one from the storage room.

[Arp]

Taking time for their legal department to respond. I asked their regular support about it, their response:

The technical support department cannot accelerate a response from legal department.Nor can specify when or how the legal department will reply to your request.

 All we can do for you is to ask for a Service Approval Request.
 If you want that, we need:
 1. your approval for receiving a working(perhaps not new) replacement for your broken kit
 2. your detailed postal address

 We are not looking to explain or discuss legal issues with you.

Programmer works so there is really no hurry. I can stand the annoying emitting frequency for the moment. The return shipping costs is not a big deal, but now it's a matter of principle . If they get to benefit from EU tax laws, then we should also benefit from EU consumer protection . Looks like im their first EU consumer filing a warranty claim...

Where did you actually buy the unit from?

Directly from Microchip, and it was sent within the EU according to the reciept.

[David_AVD]

That's where buying local can be of help.  The retailer is obliged to take care of it then.   

[Arp]

That's where buying local can be of help.  The retailer is obliged to take care of it then.   

Microchip should be informed about the laws which they are operating under, there by being obligated to follow them. Maybe Im chasing windmills and got it all wrong thou

[nctnico]

You are not wrong. Most American companies think their rules also apply in Europe because we (Europeans) are also (mostly) white. It's a bit racist come to think of it.

Apple and Dell have been succesfully sued because they didn't want to change their warranties.

[David_AVD]

If you buy from a company in another country, there's no reason for local rules to apply unless there are reciprocal arrangements in place.  If said overseas company has an office in your country and you deal with them, then that's a different matter.

eg. If I (in Australia) buy something direct from the USA (and they have no branch here), no laws over here can apply to that purchase.  The grey area is where they do have a local office, but you bought from the overseas one.

Try buying a big brand name electronic item from USA (for example) and trying to claim warranty with a local repair agent or even the Australian branch.

[kizzap]

Apple and Dell have been succesfully sued because they didn't want to change their warranties.

Apple in Australia was trying to push a single year warranty on all it's products. Our laws state that the minimum warranty that they need to provide is 2 years. Thankfully they were forced to change their policy.

[peter.mitchell]

Consumer law in Australia is awesome;

[Towger]

If you buy from a company in another country, there's no reason for local rules to apply unless there are reciprocal arrangements in place.  If said overseas company has an office in your country and you deal with them, then that's a different matter.

The thing is he bought from within the EU so EU and Irish laws apply. The Irish laws on warranty's are stronger than the EU ones. Any item is expected to last a 'reasonable length of time' and the company you buy an item from is ultimately responsible.  The court's definition of 'time' depends on the nature and cost of the item question.  Extended warranties are a waste of money here, for example your LCD TV breaks down after 3 years and the shop will talk about a 1 year manufactures warranty etc. But, mention the magic words 'Small claims court' and chances are they will fix it for free.  It is not worth their time going to court and the judge deciding that in the old days a TV would last at least 10 years, and then telling them to pay 7/10 of the repair cost.  At work DELL have repaired (for free) 5 year old laptops with the famous GPU fault, DELL initially said no, but the magic words were mentioned and their legal department told their support it did not matter that they had no replacement boards! Just do it.

Link: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumers_and_the_law_in_ireland.html

[Towger]

Apple in Australia was trying to push a single year warranty on all it's products. Our laws state that the minimum warranty that they need to provide is 2 years. Thankfully they were forced to change their policy.

I must look on their warranty in Germany, from what I have seen most German companies offer 3 years on electronics.
Do the Ozzie courts differentiate between Manufactures Warranty and your Statutory Legal Rights. ie Apple can give 1 year warranty, but the shop you bought the item from will be left with the repair cost in year 2.

[8086]

Apple in Australia was trying to push a single year warranty on all it's products. Our laws state that the minimum warranty that they need to provide is 2 years. Thankfully they were forced to change their policy.

I must look on their warranty in Germany, from what I have seen most German companies offer 3 years on electronics.
Do the Ozzie courts differentiate between Manufactures Warranty and your Statutory Legal Rights. ie Apple can give 1 year warranty, but the shop you bought the item from will be left with the repair cost in year 2.

If it's anything like the UK, it makes no difference whether it's covered by warranty or not, you can just take it back to the store on day 1, 5, 10, week 30, year 2, 3, etc.

[David_AVD]

Apple and Dell have been succesfully sued because they didn't want to change their warranties.

Apple in Australia was trying to push a single year warranty on all it's products. Our laws state that the minimum warranty that they need to provide is 2 years. Thankfully they were forced to change their policy.

Really?  I've never seen a reference (from government sources) to a minimum offered warranty period.  One year warranty is very common over here.

[senso]

Thats very strange.
My first PicKit3 had the old bootloader/software inside that would never talk to windows7, after 2 or 3 weeks sending tickets back and forward they sent me a new PicKit and a label with the shipping address to send the old one(and pay the postage for that one).

[johnmx]

I have no complains about Microchip. They replaced my ICD3 (bought from Farnell) 2 times after the 2-year legal warranty. I just had to pay the shipping costs for return the broken unit(s). And they always tell me to return only after receiving the new one!

[Arp]

I have no complains about Microchip. They replaced my ICD3 (bought from Farnell) 2 times after the 2-year legal warranty. I just had to pay the shipping costs for return the broken unit(s). And they always tell me to return only after receiving the new one!

After warranty repair is pretty nice, but two broken units? Makes me wonder about the quality. They charge almost 200 dollars for the programmer.

Anyways. Seems like im dealing with a Romanian division of Microchip. Trying not to be prejudiced, but somehow I feel it can relate to the lack of care of laws and regulations . Microchip doing what they can to keep costs down. I recieved a read notification from the legal department today so I hope there'll be a response any time soon.

[Arp]

They asked me for my receipts a week ago so. They said  the right people will make a decision so I've been waiting ever since. Tedious process it seems

[Arp]

Microchip just called me. I reckon it was from the UK because of the accent.

Summed up, he basically said that if I want lifetime warranty I'll have to pay the return shipping. Else I'll be kept out of the loop.

I told him I didn't want to pay the return shipping, and according to EU policy shouldn't have to.

After alot of talking back and forth. Being told how they care for their customers etc. I mentioned the quality of their 200 dollar programmer, and how I could probably repair it myself for less than the return shipping etc.

In the end he said he will have to take it up with some department, don't remember which, and get back to me. Will probably have to wait a few weeks more

*Edit*
Also mentioned I was willing to accept the equillant sum in discount on my next purchase, but that didn't work. Seems very troublesome for them to do anything else than follow protocols seemingly written stone

*Edit2*
Checked my log. The call was from Ireland, not UK

*Edt3*
Spoke with a very sympathetic guy at their Irish department. Not wanting to waste any more time on this I accepted their original offer. Even if I get them to pay the return shipping, they could still have me without a programmer for X number of weeks, instead of their usual procedure where they send you a working one before you return the old damaged unit