Bench sized milling machine

[rcourtney]

I would appreciate some feedback on bench sized milling machines that can cut plastic or aluminum blocks.
IE: Handheld radio project size.

If it is upgradable from XY manual table to stepper controlled even better when funds can be diverted from wife's projects.

I am OK with kits.

[djQUAN]

I use a Proxxon MF70 micro mill. Quite limited in the size it can machine but is fine for my purposes.

There are kits to convert it to CNC but I still use mine manually.

[zapta]

Micromark specialize in small tools. For example

http://www.micromark.com/microlux-high-precision-heavy-duty-r8-miniature-milling-machine,9616.html

Check also Grizzly

http://grizzly.com/search?s=category:Milling%20Machines

[Balaur]

+1 for the MF70. Proxxon also makes bigger brothers.

My 2 cents:
- bigger is better
- good bits are crucial
- manual control is moderately useful, but ultimately limited. CNC is vastly superior
- thin stuff is usually OK
- thick: not so much. Even a few mms of plastic gets quickly tiresome

[Fred27]

Another +1 for the MF70, as long as your OK with the small size. I CNC converted mine and enlarged the milling area a bit.
https://0xfred.wordpress.com/category/cnc/mf70/

[wilhe_jo]

These cheap 3020 and 3040 routers/mills are quite widely used... I got a 3020 a year ago and it works great...

How well aluminum blocks work... I frankly don't know... never tried it...

73

[TheSteve]

We use a Taig CNC mill at work to machine Hammond boxes for some of our products where volume is low enough to not justify a custom enclosure. Had it for a few years now, no problems with it - http://www.taigtools.com/

[Muttley Snickers]

I bought a Sieg Super X3 for the workshop a few years ago and it has served me well ever since, it was a bit over a couple of grand with the stand and I have now spent at least double that again on dividing heads, rotary tables, collets, milling and annular cutters, slitting saws, tapping sets, drill sets, chucks, boring heads, vises and clamping equipment, not to mention all of the measurement gear, verniers, micrometers, squares, dial and test indicators etc, the list goes on and on. In addition I added an Easson DRO which completely changed the machine into something that I could do repeatable and reasonably accurate work on, hobbyist level stuff anyway.

As others and even close friends have said buy the biggest you can get or afford, you will at some point in the future realise that it simply is not big enough to do what you now want, in my case it was the biggest that we could man handle into position in the workshop as I don't have the overhead clearance required for a forklift and also I wanted the ability to move it if needed at anytime by myself, I've been offered by customers many times for free or next to nothing bigger milling machines and lathes but again they would be a nightmare to get into position and I would need help from others.

I bought the mill and an AL320G lathe to do some prototyping and also in turn build a 600 x 600 CNC machine, originally I was just after a good quality pedestal drill but a mate who is a machinist recommended to go for a mill instead as you can do much more but it will cost you, I also now have a large AEG drill press for drilling bigger stuff that I wouldn't even attempt in the Sieg as well I have access to much larger and better machinery should the need arise but this particular equipment is what I decided to get for the home workshop and the ongoing battle with space is always an issue.

Best Regards

Muttley

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M155#

[rjeberhardt]

Forget little mickey mouse plasticky things.  You'll soon outgrow them.  I went for a Seig SX2P mill for about £500 from a UK supplier and spent perhaps another £200 on converting it to cnc. 
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/4524-Sieg-SX2-Plus-build

Russell.

[Gall]

Sieg X3 or X2 (sold under many other names too): heavy, robust, powerful. The overall build quality is however rather poor so you have to tweak your machine just before first use. Your mileage may vary.

Sherline or Taig mill, if you have not enough space for Sieg. They are about 20 lbs each so you can store them in a cabinet without having to mount them permanently. They are powerful enough to cut small steel pieces.

There are Chinese clones of Sherline, built rather poorly. Avoid them.

Machines smaller than Sherline are either too weak or cost too much. Proxxon's spindle is made for wood, it's too fast and too vibrating for precise Al work. I see Proxxon as an overpriced alternative to Chinese clones of Sherline.

[H.O]

The Optimum BF20 or a clone of it (Grizzly G0704, I think) might be worth a look.
You need a sturdy bench though not a desktop which will suffice with something like a Sherline or Taig.

[Paul Moir]

Budget the cost of the mill again for some tooling to go with it.  Vices, measuring, cutters and holders.
Being in the US, littlemachineshop.com is an excellent resource for these.

[TerraHertz]

Budget the cost of the mill again for some tooling to go with it.  Vices, measuring, cutters and holders.
Being in the US, littlemachineshop.com is an excellent resource for these.

Also rcourtney says "cut plastic or aluminum blocks" but I expect once he has a mill he's going to think of things to do with it that involve cutting steel and stainless steel. Which very much need a cutting fluid feed system. Also, a bed with fluid catch skirt, and the plumbing. From the pictures posted so far, all the small mills suggested have beds without skirts. And this is what it takes to add a skirt to such machines: http://everist.org/NobLog/20111213_mill_skirt.htm

That was the cheapest decent size machine I could afford to buy at the time (decades ago.) Without space for something larger, there's been no point thinking of upgrading. Much as I'd like to.

I've been offered by customers many times for free or next to nothing bigger milling machines and lathes but again they would be a nightmare to get into position and I would need help from others.

Hmm... in the next few years I may be relocating, and able to have a _real_ workshop space. Always dreamed of having full size quality lathe and mill (and some other things.)  Are you in Sydney? If so, any time you need a 2nd set of hands I'd be happy to help. I've been looking for someone who actually knows what they are doing with machining tools, to learn some things from. I know nothing...

[Muttley Snickers]

Unfortunately my dear friend I am based in Melbourne and as you well know to get heavy machinery transported can at times exceed it's value.

I've seen people before buy machines that would struggle to stir my coffee let alone machine anything substantial or to any reasonable finish, I seriously looked at other bigger machines but as I pointed out earlier I have ready access to a fully equipped machine shop not 10 minutes away for any major work.

The Sieg Super X3 was sufficient to do most of the smaller projects around here including stainless, aluminium and black steel, the only issue's that I have found with it are lack of bed space once you bolt up a vice or rotary table and under certain feeds and speeds chatter needs consideration, so firm gibs and lock everything down really tight, also the Y travel is only 140mm overall so +/-70mm and I'm forever flipping stuff around particularly large plate and then having to re-locate edges or holes and people don't realise that at times half the job is the set up on it's own accord.

I read somewhere that the new L model has a larger table 700mm X 160mm whereas mine is 550mm X 160mm and with a 150mm Vertex rotary table bolted up in the vertical position with a 125mm chuck attached deflection of the bed is noticeable when at full X travel even just on the 550mm bed.

Also I've never needed to run full flood coolant and in turn a catch tray, drip or brush fed cutting fluid is fine for most of my projects and I use kerosene on aluminium, swarf gets flung all over the place so people need to set strict safety guidelines for any machining process and also consider other people nearby as well as neighbours in regards to noise.

My personal recommendation to people is to learn at the very least the basics skills of manual machining and work holding before even thinking about jumping into CNC, you can hear and feel what the material, machine and cutting surface are doing when manually machined, not so much with CNC.

Also rcourtney says "cut plastic or aluminum blocks"...... a hacksaw can also do this, but machining these materials is a different kettle of fish altogether as you well know.

Best regards

Muttley

[TerraHertz]

Unfortunately my dear friend I am based in Melbourne and as you well know to get heavy machinery transported can at times exceed it's value.

Wouldn't know, I've never tried. Apart from a big anvil and swage block I bought on ebay from a farmer in Vic. But those were easily shipped up as extra cargo on a semi that was making the trip anyway, so was cheap. Ha ha, the semi arrived at my work during business hours, and the driver asked if I'd get a forklift from the factory. I just lifted them off and into the back of my car.  My lathe and mill were both small enough that I could move them myself (in pieces.)
I'm still hoping one day to get a real (big) old lathe and mill. Don't mind paying for transport, if the machines themselves are cheap. Or free. But probably best not interstate. Unless I hired a van and drove it myself.

I've seen people before buy machines that would struggle to stir my coffee let alone machine anything substantial or to any reasonable finish, I seriously looked at other bigger machines but as I pointed out earlier I have ready access to a fully equipped machine shop not 10 minutes away for any major work.

The only time a 'tiny' machine ever interested me, was a jeweler's lathe. So cute. But apart from that, the bigger the better. The 20mm spindle bore limitation of my Sheraton lathe pisses me off very often.

The Sieg Super X3 was sufficient to do most of the smaller projects around here including stainless, aluminium and black steel, the only issue's that I have found with it are lack of bed space once you bolt up a vice or rotary table

Heh. http://everist.org/NobLog/20121128_monitor_stands.htm

and under certain feeds and speeds chatter needs consideration, so firm gibs and lock everything down really tight, also the Y travel is only 140mm overall so +/-70mm and I'm forever flipping stuff around particularly large plate and then having to re-locate edges or holes and people don't realise that at times half the job is the set up on it's own accord.

Or, 90% of it, if you're stumbling around improvising, like me.

Also I've never needed to run full flood coolant and in turn a catch tray, drip or brush fed cutting fluid is fine for most of my projects

See, this is what I mean. I'd never heard or thought of those. Usually I just run the cutting fluid very slowly.

and I use kerosene on aluminium, swarf gets flung all over the place so people need to set strict safety guidelines for any machining process and also consider other people nearby as well as neighbours in regards to noise.

To control the splashing and swarf, I have some sheets of copper foil I bend to suit whatever job I'm doing, and hold them down with weights or magnets.

My personal recommendation to people is to learn at the very least the basics skills of manual machining and work holding before even thinking about jumping into CNC, you can hear and feel what the material, machine and cutting surface are doing when manually machined, not so much with CNC.

I don't think I'd ever be game to try CNC on big machines. For the reasons you give - I don't trust my ability to guess how the work-machine will react. I get that "BANG! whiizzzz.. tinkle tinkle" effect now and then from getting it wrong just by hand. Not so much these days... but still.  A project to begin after the current stuff (stand for the metal folder) is finished, is a custom 3D printer, but with the head being interchangeable between an extruder, a router, and an ink-jet print head (I hope.) That will be my first try at all the CAD stuff required.

[rcourtney]

Thanks guys.  I'm in the USA and I could cut items with a hacksaw.   Would look like my grade school artwork!

I'll keep on looking for small machines but I guess wait longer and get one with the dials and steppers already assembled.

[Muttley Snickers]

These machines can be a trap, I bought the lathe and mill mainly to make prototypes for some top secret systems that I came up with and it became a never ending cycle of making tools for each machine, I would make screw jacks, arbors, tool holders, etc on the lathe for the mill and then make tool posts, tap and boring bar holders, etc on the mill for the lathe and just when you think that another tool couldn't possibly be needed the realisation that there may be another way comes into play so you go at it again, or you look back on some of your early masterpieces and although they were very impressive at the time they now look like pieces of crap, I have almost worn a permanent groove in the concrete between both machines.... ....

I have spent more time on the machines making tools for other tools than anything else but with this comes experience and learning in addition to crafting your own tools which are sometimes hugely expensive or simply not exactly what you want, in my case I have been blessed by having friends and customers that are in one way or another involved with manufacturing so calling in on favours from people has saved me both a lot of time and money....

And then more machinery is required, there is no other way, linishing machines, bigger drills, more angle and bench grinders, folders and jigs, work tables, tool boxes, you make a CNC machine and then one day you walk into the workshop stop to look around and think to yourself what the hell happened here, machinery zombie world is what happened and there is no cure known to man....

Making your own stuff is hugely rewarding and almost medicinal for some of us, whether it be metal work, electronics or a timber letter box, nothing beats it.


Muttley

[kripton2035]

it would have been the same with any lathe or mill these days
don't forget you will spend almost as much in the mill/lathe than you will spend on tools for it : cutting tools, vices, holders, dro, even more money with cnc
or you can make your own tools it's always get you more proud of yourself but it takes time
I bought a sx2 mill some years ago to have a good (very) bench drill, and I never regretted it
but I think I have bought now more tools for it in value than the original mill value. same for the SC3 lathe.

[ChunkyPastaSauce]

How about the just released Tormach 440?

Light work in steel

accuracy is ok, for the price

Controller is good enough to handle 3d contour shapes. It also compatible with Fusion 360, so the CAM is free (even for basic full  3 axis)

10,000 rpm spindle, 10” x 6.25” x 10” work envelope

Apparently in the future, you can add a 4th axis and ATC if wanted

Basic package is 7k  USD (For that you might be able to find an ok very used "real" industrial machine if lucky, but also have to take on the used equipment risk, almost certainly not plug and play, and definitely wont be desktop sized)

Tormach 770, 14” x 7.5” x 13.25” work envelope, 8K USD