Author Topic: DMM.s  (Read 21543 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Vyper

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
DMM.s
« on: January 22, 2011, 08:47:38 am »
Any one own a Fluke 199c? I found one at a price I couldnt pass up so I bought it. I have more than enough test equipment and dmm,s but this was a steal. Any way was just curious what anyone thought of this particular HH scope. It works really good I cant find any problems at all. Ill play around with it for a bit and if I cant/dont/wont use it Ill consider selling it.
Sr. Electronics engineering technician for U. S. Government
AAS electronics engineering technology/Environmental engineering
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9635
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2011, 11:29:41 am »
well, what do you expect from a $2K++ HH DMM DSO?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 11:17:07 pm by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2011, 01:55:03 pm »
I don't own one, only know of it. 

Its great tool, the killer is the cost needed to make it a portable scope.  It lists for $3600, you can get an equivalent desktop scope for 70% less at the same bandwidth, but without the CAT level safety or portability.

Given its power requirements, it uses rechargeable battery packs, I hope they are also not expensive to replace.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Vyper

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2011, 06:41:21 pm »
Well its got everything with it as far as i can tell, It came in a big hard case. Only thing it doesnt have is the battery pak, Im using alkilines in it right now. Its a little older than I thought though. I pulled up the cal menu and it read 2006 october. It doesnt appear to have been used much at all no scrathes or dents or dings and the lcd is extremeley clear. I said it wa a good deal, I gave the woman 1000 dollars so idk. i must say the more I use it the more i like it.
Sr. Electronics engineering technician for U. S. Government
AAS electronics engineering technology/Environmental engineering
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2011, 09:27:45 pm »
$1000 I'd consider buying it, but I'd not blink if it was the 200 MHz version.  

The 199c has been around a while, that's a good thing, its tried and tested, debugged  ;D!

It runs off alkaline too?  That's sweet!  That means it can work off regular NiMH AA, its a steal then.  Congratulations!



Well its got everything with it as far as i can tell, It came in a big hard case. Only thing it doesnt have is the battery pak, Im using alkilines in it right now. Its a little older than I thought though. I pulled up the cal menu and it read 2006 october. It doesnt appear to have been used much at all no scrathes or dents or dings and the lcd is extremeley clear. I said it wa a good deal, I gave the woman 1000 dollars so idk. i must say the more I use it the more i like it.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 09:29:24 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Vyper

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2011, 05:11:11 pm »
@Saturation..Yes I put 8 alkalines in it(maybe 6) and it works great. Got bout 3 hours out of them tho so I need to mabe order the rechargeble pak for it. It is the 200Mhz BW version. and in color. Taking it to the lab at work tomorrow and gona see just what its capable of.
Sr. Electronics engineering technician for U. S. Government
AAS electronics engineering technology/Environmental engineering
 

Offline Vyper

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2011, 05:46:44 pm »
Just gona throw this out there guys.  I recently purchased the Agilent U1253A. everything Dave said on his review was correct about it, Nothing to awful as I remember anyway. It is slow in continuity readings but overall a very good DMM. one thing I dont recall in the review is just how really easy it is is to read the lcd at some very odd angles which can happen from time to time while working around equipment. One could almost look at it from any angle and easily see the read out on the screen. Im sure it has its faults but I'm happy with it.
Sr. Electronics engineering technician for U. S. Government
AAS electronics engineering technology/Environmental engineering
 

alm

  • Guest
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2011, 06:57:11 pm »
@Saturation..Yes I put 8 alkalines in it(maybe 6) and it works great. Got bout 3 hours out of them tho so I need to mabe order the rechargeble pak for it. It is the 200Mhz BW version. and in color. Taking it to the lab at work tomorrow and gona see just what its capable of.
3 hours is pretty close to the original spec I think (4 hours?). Good low self-discharge NiMH cells like Sanyo Eneloop will probably last significantly longer. Don't be surprised if the original battery pack is very expensive, and be careful with used battery packs, since cells tend to degrade with age. I believe this is the chief complaint I've read about these units, dead batteries, so maybe that's why it's missing. If you can get fairly close to original battery life with standard rechargeable cells, I might just use those instead of expensive proprietary battery packs.

I wouldn't worry about performance, I'm sure Fluke did their homework, especially since it's not the first generation, those had nasty passive monochrome LCD displays, low sample rate and non-isolated channels. There are at least three generations before this one, maybe more. The Scopemeters are the sole reason why Fluke bought the Philips Test & Measurement branch (it used to be a joint venture between Philips and Fluke). Fluke dumped almost all other Philips test equipment like multimeters (they already had those), bench scopes and other lab equipment, and kept the Scopemeters.

The main complaint I've heard is about battery packs, and some people dislike the interface, a bench scope with larger display and proper knobs is nicer in some ways. It's hard to beat Scopemeters for portable applications, however, especially anything involving high energy circuits. It's designed to be fully floating, so you can safely clip the reference lead to any potential (within specified limits), and both channels are fully isolated (so both 'grounds' can be at different potentials). Don't try the same with 99% of the bench scopes, it will cause fireworks ;). The Scopemeter inputs are rated for CAT III; many other scopes are CAT II.

You should use the original probes (made by Multi-Contact I believe), since Scopemeters use special insulated BNC connectors. This is both for safety (the probes are designed with extra insulation around the reference lead, not much attention is paid to this with regular scope probes since the reference is grounded anyway), and because using metal BNC connectors will quickly wear out the plastic female connectors, which do occasionally break.

Just gona throw this out there guys.  I recently purchased the Agilent U1253A. everything Dave said on his review was correct about it, Nothing to awful as I remember anyway. It is slow in continuity readings but overall a very good DMM. one thing I dont recall in the review is just how really easy it is is to read the lcd at some very odd angles which can happen from time to time while working around equipment. One could almost look at it from any angle and easily see the read out on the screen. Im sure it has its faults but I'm happy with it.
Most of Dave's negative comments were focused on the OLED display, except the slow continuity, and he did give it a thumbs up. Nothing is perfect, at least you can safely put this meter next to your cell phone ;). Good to know that the LCD has good viewing angles, I agree that it can be very frustrating if you're unable to read the LCD screen from where you're standing. One reason why I prefer VFD or LED, but that's way too power hungry for battery powered applications (kinda like OLED ;))
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 07:16:07 pm by alm »
 

Offline mzacharias

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 633
  • Country: us
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2011, 08:32:40 pm »
I keep looking at pics of the U1253B. What a wild looking meter! The battery life does seem like a killer, then I consider how I actually use a multimeter, and it doesn't seem so bad. I mostly take a couple or a few readings, then set it aside. And there's always the auto-off function. I have started referring to my Paypal account as the "1253B" fund. ;D

« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 08:46:28 pm by mzacharias »
 

Offline Vyper

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2011, 01:48:18 am »
Thanks for the heads up and info on the 199c ALM. I did notice that both probe sets were heavily insulated like you said. Ill probably not get the battery pak as they are really expensive. I own a several fluke hand held dmms and like them all, hard to beat'em realy. I just recently sent my 867B to fluke for calibration and repairs, Cost me 500 bucks! Ive also got some old Simpson meters I keep in the lab, I might tinker around with them one of these days :). One is ithink, A simpson 376, really old. I think its an old rectifier type Ac volt meter. I dont know much about it.
Sr. Electronics engineering technician for U. S. Government
AAS electronics engineering technology/Environmental engineering
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31218
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2011, 10:58:42 am »
I keep looking at pics of the U1253B. What a wild looking meter! The battery life does seem like a killer, then I consider how I actually use a multimeter, and it doesn't seem so bad. I mostly take a couple or a few readings, then set it aside. And there's always the auto-off function. I have started referring to my Paypal account as the "1253B" fund. ;D

The OLED display is indeed gorgeous.
As noted in my review and follow up you would probably get quite usable intermittent use life out of it if you used a lithium battery.
Even Alkaline would be quite reasonable, probably a few months use @ 5/10 minutes a day.
There is the identical LCD version also which gets you much longer battery life and usability outdoors.

Dave.
 

Offline mzacharias

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 633
  • Country: us
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2011, 11:08:07 am »
I keep looking at pics of the U1253B. What a wild looking meter! The battery life does seem like a killer, then I consider how I actually use a multimeter, and it doesn't seem so bad. I mostly take a couple or a few readings, then set it aside. And there's always the auto-off function. I have started referring to my Paypal account as the "1253B" fund. ;D

The OLED display is indeed gorgeous.
As noted in my review and follow up you would probably get quite usable intermittent use life out of it if you used a lithium battery.
Even Alkaline would be quite reasonable, probably a few months use @ 5/10 minutes a day.
There is the identical LCD version also which gets you much longer battery life and usability outdoors.

Dave.

Yeah, the U1252b is a rechargeable LCD version otherwise identical and the display _almost_ as cool looking, but IIRC it only gets about 36 hours battery life on the rechargeables, not all that much better, really. Still even the 8 hours on the rechargeable 1253B model would be OK for me in a shop. If it ran down, just grab another meter. Not good for field work, but I rarely do outside service calls.

Still, it doesn't have the TrendCapture of a Fluke 289...

So many meters - so little time!  ;D

Mark Z.
 

Offline Vyper

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2011, 08:03:24 pm »
Im glad I'm not the only one here who has a boat load of DMM's ;)   Iv'e still got the first Fluke I ever bought at my first job as a tech, Maintenance on HF welding equipment, Its a Fluke model 27. Haha, I was on top of the world with that DMM and my first job!  Its big, yellow, Heavy and still works!. If I remember right it was a milspec meter, water proof to a few feet and msha approved for CA & explosive atmosheres environments..Ive also have a fluke 707 LC and the 772 mpcm. Love the 772! also have a AWS AC VOM digisnap model DSA-2002p and an Extech current loop simulator (4-20) that doesnt even have a model # on it.    )
Sr. Electronics engineering technician for U. S. Government
AAS electronics engineering technology/Environmental engineering
 

Offline PetrosA

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 625
  • Country: us
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2011, 12:10:22 am »
I'd love to add a scopemeter to my collection but life has its priorities... I am getting a new DMM though - Agilent U1272A which will be the best one I own specs wise. Hopefully should be here sometime in the next few weeks :)
I miss my home I miss my porch, porch
 

Offline Rutger

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Country: us
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2011, 02:49:34 pm »
I keep looking at pics of the U1253B. What a wild looking meter! The battery life does seem like a killer, then I consider how I actually use a multimeter, and it doesn't seem so bad. I mostly take a couple or a few readings, then set it aside. And there's always the auto-off function. I have started referring to my Paypal account as the "1253B" fund. ;D

The OLED display is indeed gorgeous.
As noted in my review and follow up you would probably get quite usable intermittent use life out of it if you used a lithium battery.
Even Alkaline would be quite reasonable, probably a few months use @ 5/10 minutes a day.
There is the identical LCD version also which gets you much longer battery life and usability outdoors.

Dave.
I have ordered the U1253A from Grainger for $146.25 and that is the only one still available here in the US (as of March 29, 2011). I have called the local stores and they have told me that the U1251A & U1252A are gone nationwide.  Hope to get it soon. So if you still want one get it quick (link below)!

My only concern is with the battery life like Dave pointed out, but I am wondering if I am going to use it for bench work only (low voltage) if there is a hack to add a external adapter to bypass the battery, in other words could you add a little jack for a charger.  The only problem I see is that if the meter is getting charged you can't use if for anything else! So you would have to either bypass the battery or something making the meter think it is getting a perfect 9V. Even better would be to power the meter and drip charge the battery at the same time, are they any suggestion on a small drip charge circuit and a small plug with a 3-way switch?

Rutger

PS: Here is the link: Agilent 1253A
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 02:52:22 pm by Rutger »
 

Offline Russel

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2011, 05:42:08 pm »
As Dave said regarding the U1253A:

[...]As noted in my review and follow up you would probably get quite usable intermittent use life out of it if you used a lithium battery.[...]

The Ultralife 9v Long Life Lithium Battery is 1200mAh and not all that expensive.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 05:43:44 pm by Russel »
 

Offline Strube09

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • Country: 00
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2011, 07:35:41 pm »
A quick note on the continuity beep...

If you turn on the meter to continuity and change range to 500M the beeper is much quicker to detect as it doesn't have to auto range.
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2011, 08:00:15 pm »
A $1 9v alkaline delivers ~300-500mAH at < 100mA drain, so a $7 Li is 4x more power at 7x the cost.  You'll get ~ 32 hours instead of 8.  

A 7.2V 200mAH NiMH rechargeable may worse case, last about 4 hours, but typically can be recharged 300x, so its more cost effective.  Old style NiMH has a self discharge rate, so you'd have to top it up routinely to keep it in shape.

There is a new type 9V NiMH using LSD technology akin to eneloop, and has a terminal voltage closer to 9V:

http://www.amazon.com/Maha-PowerEx-IMEDION-Low-Self-Discharge-Rechargeable/dp/B0045KJ0Q6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1301428121&sr=1-4

I guess you'll need to weigh how often you use the DMM to see which power approach is best suitable for your work style.

In my experience, troubleshooting just requires a measure here and there, rarely do you watch a trend over time, so hourly power consumption is less an issue.  But in design work, its easier to to monitor outputs with multiple meters all on, you could of course just measure it as you need to.  Changing batteries is easy as the battery door on the 1252A is just a half turn screw using a coin.  Those little irks do however, make one think twice about plunking $400 for an Agilent versus a Fluke 87V, but less so for a $140 Agilent  ;D.



« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 08:02:39 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31218
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2011, 08:42:59 pm »
Yes. I've been using mine sparingly and even the rechargable battery has lasted many many months.
That's only a problem with the OLED version though.
They have a LCD version too with much longer battery life.
So unless you absolutely need or want the OLED version, the LCD version is the way to go IMO.

Dave.
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2011, 10:01:55 pm »
In many of your shows since the DMM review, Dave primarily uses different Gossens and/or the Fluke, I've rarely seen the OLED Agilent, my guess is the screen refresh is another downer for video.

To Agilent's credit, the meter's overall design has a distinctness to it.  However, for the money Agilent asked for it originally, it does make a buyer see its faults far more critically.   AT $140, the faults seem less troubling.  In test equipment, its easy to see how vital price affects one's perception of vices and virtues.


Yes. I've been using mine sparingly and even the rechargable battery has lasted many many months.


That's only a problem with the OLED version though.
They have a LCD version too with much longer battery life.
So unless you absolutely need or want the OLED version, the LCD version is the way to go IMO.

Dave.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 10:05:10 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31218
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2011, 10:06:00 am »
In many of your shows since the DMM review, Dave primarily uses different Gossens and/or the Fluke, I've rarely seen the OLED Agilent, my guess is the screen refresh is another downer for video.

Yes, the screen flicker makes it unsuitable for video use. Only been used once or twice on video since then.

My main meter now is either of the Gossens, they are just so nice. The big thick probe tips suck though.

Quote
To Agilent's credit, the meter's overall design has a distinctness to it.  However, for the money Agilent asked for it originally, it does make a buyer see its faults far more critically.   AT $140, the faults seem less troubling.  In test equipment, its easy to see how vital price affects one's perception of vices and virtues.

Very true.
At $140, it's the bargain of the century. I'd buy 2 or 3 or 4...

Dave.
 

Offline Rutger

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Country: us
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2011, 01:59:13 pm »
Dave in your review when you took the DMM apart you showed that the display is a separate board, would you think you could order the LCD version from Agilent and replace the display (down the road)? Based on the specs I looks like that the 1251 and 1253 have the same display board and I would think that it would be compatible with the 1253 pins.  I found Agilent website for parts, but when I enter the model it doesn't find it.
Here is the link I found: Agilent Online Store

What model should I be enter?  Does anyone have a part number for the LCD display board?

Also isn't the OLED display suppose to be better in conserving energy than a regular LCD display or is that a regular Color LCD.

I am curious to know how much the display actually draws versus a LCD and if this is the cause of the bad battery life, but it could also be the super fast refresh rate as the other DMM also don't have a great battery life.

Rutger

PS: I have send an request for info on this part to Agilent and when I know the details I will let you all know.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 02:23:02 pm by Rutger »
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2011, 03:01:50 pm »
As there are 2 threads discussing these meters on slightly different foci, see here about the risks of bypass the battery power.  I think you're chatting there too Rutger, but FYI, I feel a touch guilty for recommending it.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2958.msg39582#msg39582


My only concern is with the battery life like Dave pointed out, but I am wondering if I am going to use it for bench work only (low voltage) if there is a hack to add a external adapter to bypass the battery, in other words could you add a little jack for a charger.  The only problem I see is that if the meter is getting charged you can't use if for anything else! So you would have to either bypass the battery or something making the meter think it is getting a perfect 9V. Even better would be to power the meter and drip charge the battery at the same time, are they any suggestion on a small drip charge circuit and a small plug with a 3-way switch?

Rutger

PS: Here is the link: Agilent 1253A
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Rutger

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Country: us
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2011, 03:35:31 pm »
As there are 2 threads discussing these meters on slightly different foci, see here about the risks of bypass the battery power.  I think you're chatting there too Rutger, but FYI, I feel a touch guilty for recommending it.

Don't fee guilty saturation, I bought the unit well informed and I am sure I can live with it faults.
If I really can't live with it I can always sell it on ebay and get at least my money back.

Rutger
 

Offline Rutger

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Country: us
Re: DMM.s
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2011, 04:15:38 am »
Hi, just a follow up. Got an email back from Agilent and no you can't order parts for the unit. I am not sure what "Advanced Unit Exchange" means, but is sounds like a swap, not sure if I like that.  I wonder what happens after the warranty period?

Here is the exact message from Agilent:

The model number U1252A is not designed to be serviced in the field. There is no available Service Guide and there are no replacement parts. This model is handled as an "Advanced Unit Exchange. You would need to call the Service Center and arrange to get a replacement unit. The number is 1-800-829-4444, when connected press #, then option 3 and option 1.

 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf