Author Topic: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering  (Read 3148 times)

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Offline rauldm

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microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« on: April 27, 2022, 11:51:46 pm »
Hi, everyone,

I want buy a microscope for soldering, I repair industrial PCB boards, the most  little pitch I solder is 0.5 mm like qfp 208 pin, normally I soldering more big things, actually I use  5x magnifying glass, is good but is very unstable, basically my problem is when I toch the glass with soldering iron, other problem is for aligning the IC I can't see very clear with 5x, my list is next
AmScope SM-4B
AmScope SW-3T24
AmScope SE400
AmScope SE410

I dont know nothing about microscopes, I dont have access to store for testing, regards.
 

Online KaneTW

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2022, 02:41:03 am »
I have the yydag SZM7045NT-STL2, which is the same OEM as Amscope.

Optics quality is not the best, but sufficient for most things (I've soldered 0201s and 0.4mm pitch BGAs under it). 0.5x objective is useful for extended working distance, but reduces depth of field when you need higher magnifications.

Boom stand is ass. The linear guides are so soft they scored after a few uses, it's sloppy, etc. I basically do not move it when using it.

If you have a few grand to spend, get a Leica S9 or similar. Otherwise this is good enough.
 

Offline rauldm

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2022, 05:16:22 am »
thanks for your answers, from single arm to dual arm is very high difference?
 

Online KaneTW

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2022, 06:43:46 am »
It's extra stability and control. I never tried the single arm but the dual arm already feels borderline, single arm would likely be not good enough.
 
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Offline Electro Fan

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2022, 12:00:18 am »
thanks for your answers, from single arm to dual arm is very high difference?

Hard for me to say with certainty since I haven't used the single boom but I'm inclined to go with KaneTW's double boom preference.   I had considered an articulating arm but some of the youtube reviews indicated that almost any bounce of the bench might transfer the bounce through an articulating arm to the microscope head so I went with an Amcope double boom.  I had seen the reviews saying the steel arm tubes can develop grooves so I've been very careful not to use the sliding mechanism more than necessary.  When I got the scope and set it up where I typically want to use it I pretty much left it in the optimum viewing location on the bench.  This might not be so practical if you need to move the scope out of the way but for me it's ok to let it sit where it's used.  I can't say if a single boom would have been sufficient but I can say that the double boom is rock solid on my bench.  The flexibility to get the base and the head to go pretty much where you want is nice and when you get it set where you want it's very enjoyable to use.  Per some of other threads you can find here it's extra nice if you can set up the scope for use with a stool/chair where your eyes, head, and neck will be at the right height for viewing.  Any adjustments you need after that will mostly be just due to the particular items you are viewing, soldering, etc and the double boom with all the associated adjustments should allow you to accommodate whatever you need while remaining very stable.  I spent a couple years or more studying microscopes before selecting a scope and now after about a year and half of using the SM-4NTP with a 0.5 Barlow lens I'm a very happy microscope user.

 

Offline jfiresto

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2022, 08:24:36 am »
I would also vote for the double arm boom stand if you spend much time over 20–30X total magnification at extended distances from the central, upright post. I have a basic, single arm Wild Heerrbrugg stand, which is about as stiff and massive as they come, and have to be a little careful not to disturb it at high magnifications.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 08:28:18 am by jfiresto »
-John
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2022, 11:22:41 am »
I have the SM-4B, with a 0.5x Barlow lens it is just perfect for soldering and inspection. The double-boom stand is nice for getting it out of the way when its not needed. Don't bother with trinocular heads if you don't want to stream Louis Rossmann style.

Specifically, I got the SM-4BX-FRL package. In retrospect, I shouldn't have bothered with the ring light they supplied as its brightness is not adjustable. I ordered a cheap LED adjustable light on Ebay and couldn't be happier.

The Barlow lens increases the working distance to 165mm (against 100mm), which you will highly appreciate.
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Offline SteveyG

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2022, 12:23:23 pm »
I've done several videos on this topic on my channel. The SM745NTP is a good package and if you can get it for a good price I'd recommend that, however the Eakins ones don't seem to be any different in image quality and come with exactly the same instruction manual, suggesting they're fundamentally the same.

Double boom is nice if you have the space, you may find the articulated arm a better option than a single arm though
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Online thm_w

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2022, 10:39:28 pm »
thanks for your answers, from single arm to dual arm is very high difference?

Hard for me to say with certainty since I haven't used the single boom but I'm inclined to go with KaneTW's double boom preference.   I had considered an articulating arm but some of the youtube reviews indicated that almost any bounce of the bench might transfer the bounce through an articulating arm to the microscope head so I went with an Amcope double boom.  I had seen the reviews saying the steel arm tubes can develop grooves so I've been very careful not to use the sliding mechanism more than necessary.
...

Even if it did wear down you can rotate the linear rods no? Its meant to be used, just keep it clean and it should be fine.

Another option for articulating arm is to wall mount it, then bench vibration will not affect it.
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Offline rauldm

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2022, 03:48:12 am »
Thanks for your answers, right now I have two models, for same price, in amazon SM-4B cost similar price to AMSZOOM microscope from aliexpress, SM-4B needs light, with LED light cost even more than AMSZOOM with two pairs of eyepieces, barlow and camera, really I don't need camera but same price is very good deal, I think they are same microscope but different brand only, a seller in my country says that AMSZOOM and AMSCOPE are better than EAKINS, price for two microscopes with tax in my country is 570-590 USD
Regards.
 

Offline mastershake

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2022, 04:12:21 am »
you can also swap the rods out for hardened ones its not to bad to do. im about to order an articulated version to compare to the dual boom i got recently. the dual boom DOES groove up the rods fairly quick if you slide them a lot.
 

Offline KE5FX

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2022, 04:13:33 am »
Hard for me to say with certainty since I haven't used the single boom but I'm inclined to go with KaneTW's double boom preference.   I had considered an articulating arm but some of the youtube reviews indicated that almost any bounce of the bench might transfer the bounce through an articulating arm to the microscope head

So don't bounce the bench while using it.   :-//  How hard can that be?   

This is a common criticism but I've never, ever understood where those people are coming from.  The articulating arm is AWESOME.  I can't imagine going back to a conventional single or double boom.
 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2022, 04:56:54 am »
Hi KE5FX,

To clarify, with the double boom I haven’t seen any bouncing of the image.

Maybe the articulating arms are just as stable - as I said, I don’t have an articulating arm.

In this review if you watch the last 3.5 minutes the image looks less than super stable. 



There are various possible reasons for this including 1) he had just set up the arm and maybe it wasn’t set up fully or correctly, 2) maybe it was a problem unique to his particular model or his particular unit, 3) maybe given this is an old review improvements have been made, 4) maybe something else….

Certainly articulating booms look to offer a lot of flexible positioning with lot of ease of use.

So, all I can say with certainty is that on my particular bench which is pretty sturdy the double boom yields a rock solid steady image.

PS, I’m a big fan of your Lady Heather software.  Thanks for all you put into developing and supporting LH.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 06:37:00 am by Electro Fan »
 

Offline KE5FX

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2022, 05:21:15 am »
The image is perfectly stable unless you are pounding on the bench, or experiencing an earthquake.

Period.

Re: Heather, I get a lot of undeserved credit for that one. :)  Texaspyro is the man, I just maintain an old Windows build for downloading.  I hope he's still around, I don't think anybody's heard from him for months now.
 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2022, 06:34:17 am »
The image is perfectly stable unless you are pounding on the bench, or experiencing an earthquake.

Period.

Re: Heather, I get a lot of undeserved credit for that one. :)  Texaspyro is the man, I just maintain an old Windows build for downloading.  I hope he's still around, I don't think anybody's heard from him for months now.

Well I have a hunch you are being very humble about your work on Heather, and it’s very nice and good of you to share the spotlight with Texaspyro.  No doubt he has also done some great work with his Windows version of LH and he has answered lots of questions for GPSDO enthusiasts.  Hopefully he is well and will resurface.

Based on how very highly I regard the precision timing and overall capabilities of your software I’m inclined to say that if you find the articulating boom perfectly stable it must be perfectly stable.  Let us know if there is a particular make and model you prefer.

Thanks
 

Offline jfiresto

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2022, 07:27:26 am »
The image is perfectly stable unless you are pounding on the bench, or experiencing an earthquake.

Period.
At what magnifications?

I have an old mirrorless cameras that will capture images on a stereo microscope, up to 3.1X (sample to sensor) with detail approaching the Nyquist limit. A colleague tried the same model on his compound microscope (up to 80~100X, sample to sensor) and got insufferable shutter shock.

My father mounted his SMZ-2T stereo microscope to a pantographic enlarger frame: to examine some very large objects. That setup bounced when you touched it, for example, to zoom or focus. With a little patience and high eyepoint oculars, however, it worked out just fine.

This is just to say, other people's experiences may differ.
-John
 

Offline KE5FX

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2022, 07:36:29 am »
The image is perfectly stable unless you are pounding on the bench, or experiencing an earthquake.

Period.

Re: Heather, I get a lot of undeserved credit for that one. :)  Texaspyro is the man, I just maintain an old Windows build for downloading.  I hope he's still around, I don't think anybody's heard from him for months now.

Well I have a hunch you are being very humble about your work on Heather, and it’s very nice and good of you to share the spotlight with Texaspyro.  No doubt he has also done some great work with his Windows version of LH and he has answered lots of questions for GPSDO enthusiasts.  Hopefully he is well and will resurface.

Based on how very highly I regard the precision timing and overall capabilities of your software I’m inclined to say that if you find the articulating boom perfectly stable it must be perfectly stable.  Let us know if there is a particular make and model you prefer.

Thanks

I just use the standard ebay-special Amscope trinocular setup with the Barlow lens.  Can't find the exact package but the arm is this one.

Obviously it should be mounted solidly, and obviously it will still jitter and sway when you touch the microscope body or bump the workbench.  It doesn't take long to stop doing that except when focusing, when you're holding it steady anyway. 

The ability to swing the microscope up and out of the way is not something I can live without, given the layout of my workbench.  I've used both the (single) boom and this, and going back to the boom is unthinkable.

Quote
At what magnifications?

I have an old mirrorless cameras that will capture images on a stereo microscope, up to 3.1X (sample to sensor) with detail approaching the Nyquist limit. A colleague tried the same model on his compound microscope (up to 80~100X, sample to sensor) and got insufferable shutter shock.

My father mounted his SMZ-2T stereo microscope to a pantographic enlarger frame: to examine some very large objects. That setup bounced when you touched it, for example, to zoom or focus. With a little patience and high eyepoint oculars, however, it worked out just fine.

This is just to say, other people's experiences may differ.

I think the max magnification on mine is 22.5x with the Barlow lens in place (which it always is).  The zoom range is a perfect fit for SMT work and general electronic inspection, but I can see the stability being a problem if a mechanical shutter is used at magnifications of 100x or more.  I doubt that describes most of what the people in this thread would need.
 

Offline jfiresto

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2022, 08:08:30 am »
... I think the max magnification on mine is 22.5x with the Barlow lens in place (which it always is).  The zoom range is a perfect fit for SMT work and general electronic inspection....
That is encouraging. I am setting up a long working distance microscope for such work, that will give 2½–12½X or 5–25X, with 10X and 20X oculars, respectively, and roughly the same field of view where the ranges overlap.
-John
 

Offline mastershake

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2022, 05:29:33 pm »
what i did is make a mount where i can put the articulating arm onto, that is directly attached to the wall behind my desk. this way it doesnt matter how hard i bump the desk there is no vibration from doing that. i used a metal mount bolted to the wall i pulled off something i had laying around. then clamped the arm to that bracket with a piece of wood in between to take up the extra space. works awesome and its the one i use most of the time now.
 
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Offline HobGoblyn

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2022, 10:04:15 pm »
I’ve got the single boom arm, while admittedly I don’t use my microscope every day, I’ve never had a problem with it
 

Offline rauldm

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2022, 11:02:44 pm »
I don't have experience with microscope, only have magnifying glass with articulated arm, is very unestable, about single boom I think if is high quality microscope must work fine, I found in  youtube to John Gammell, he shows microscope probably high cost with single boom, but you can see  it has a very strong bracket, perhaps real difference on stability between dual and single boom, is in low cost microscopes, I see a youtube video where the user has same microscope but with dual boom and single boom, single boom shakes constantly, single boom microscope from video it has 1.7 mm tikness in bracket plate, other user says that he puts a new plate of 6 mm tikness and works very well.

microscope shaking
https://youtu.be/B0wRdJRzPUI?t=789
high cost microscope
https://youtu.be/vd6OG2ZoXRs?t=3

 

Offline mastershake

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2022, 02:01:26 am »
that one in the video does not hang outwards on an arm it only slides up and down thats why its more stable. i had the single arm sdg showed and i hated it it was not stable at all.
 

Offline SteveyG

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2022, 08:31:48 pm »
Another option for articulating arm is to wall mount it, then bench vibration will not affect it.

This doesn't work as well as you'd think on certain desks/benches. It can instead mean the microscope stays stable, but the PCB moves slightly when you add weight to the bench.

Vibration is an issue on all microscopes when the depth of field is small. Through the eyepieces it's fine, it's the camera that shows up the wobble.
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Offline rauldm

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2022, 04:15:11 am »
Finally I got this
Finally I got this
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4001142886862.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef194dpugiVD&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp
I hope works fine and comes fine too, in last I had bad experience with Aliexpress, but price is nice and it has great accesories.
 

Offline HobGoblyn

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Re: microscope AMSCOPE for soldering
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2022, 08:16:19 am »
Couple of pics of my single arm, one showing how I use it which is as solid as a rock, and the other with as high as it can go. 

When it's at it's highest it's obviously doesn't take as much force to cause the whole thing to tip, but even then, under normal use it should be fine (or put a bit of extra weight on the stand)

Both pics are with camera attached which adds a little extra weight.

I do swing it left and right to move it out of the way etc if I don't need it, never had a problem.

The single arm feels solid, there's  zero flex.

Personally as this is the case, I can't see how the double arm would make it any more stable than it already is (of course I've never tried one), and as I'm short of space, would actually be a hindrance as I wouldn't  be able to put my plastic box on the stand (see third pic)

 
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