New bench, which solding station

[Andrew_Debbie]

My Weller WTCPN is gone and I need a replacement for my new bench in Montana.

Budget is under $500 US, new or used. No clones. I hand-solder everything from 0603 SMD up to turret-board tube amp projects.

My shortlist is:

PACE ADS200 Plus
Hakko FX-971 — I had both an FX-888 and my WTCPN on the bench for a while and preferred the Weller.
Metcal PS-900

I'm open to suggestions.

[thm_w]

I see new PS-900 for <$150 on ebay, so value wise that would be the best.

FX-971 we don't have good performance testing, other than a few anecdotes. Its most likely a lot better than an FX888, but its not clear how it compares to a top JBC or metcal.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/hakko-fx-971-fx-972/
https://www.reddit.com/r/soldering/comments/1rmzjbs/just_want_some_advice_trying_to_get_into_the_hobby/

[David Hess]

I never see anybody suggest the Weller WE1010NA.  Is there something wrong with them?  The ETA tips are inexpensive and readily available.

At that price, You could buy two of them and install different tips for different applications.

[Andrew_Debbie]

I didn't realise the WE1010NA was only $110 from (sold by) Amazon.  MSRP is $197.50 which is why it didn't make my short list.   
   
It won't heat as fast as the Metcal, but $110 is really cheap if it is any good.  Tips are inexpensive too.  I'll think about it.     I did quickly look at WT1010 but it is just over $500.

Best PS-900 price I found on eBay is new open box for $223.   

I've read about 20 pages of the Pace thread and all of the FX-971 thread.    I've got a few weeks to think about it.  - I move to the US on the 23rd.

[Zucca]

Metcal. Always.

[Andrew_Debbie]

Metcal. Always.

 

[thm_w]

I never see anybody suggest the Weller WE1010NA.  Is there something wrong with them?  The ETA tips are inexpensive and readily available.

At that price, You could buy two of them and install different tips for different applications.

Nothing outright wrong with it no, but its ancient technology and very long tip distance. It will perform similarly to FX888.
The grip is moderately sized, so it could be passable for SMD, though I prefer much thinner.

[Psi]

As long as the tip is part of the heating element, and it has enough watts for what you want to use it for, it doesn't really matter that much for usability.

For longevity high quality tip plating is really important. Cheap/aftermarket tips often wont last due to bad plating/construction. Which usually just means you should use a genuine and well known brand.

A cheap china soldering station that can accept a genuine tip from a well known brand is usually a really great way to get something cheap but also really good.
Which can be great if you want leftover money to spend on other equipment rather than forking out 5x the cost to get a brand name station.
Last time I looked there was plenty of china stations that use the same Hakko T15 standard for tips

[bdunham7]

I'm pretty happy with the ADS-200 even though it isn't even close to a true 120W when using the standard TD-200 handle.  I would get the ISB stand but I don't like the tips that come in the 3-tip kit, so probably look for the no-tip kit and get tips you like.

https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/ADS200-8007-0579/Soldering-Stations/?b=y&v=126323

This style tip works well for SMD, but YMMV depending on how you do things.

https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/1130-0035-P1/Tips/

I haven't noticed any difference between the standard and ultra tips but the price isn't much different either.  The ultras have some extra bulk that may get in the way at times.

[David Hess]

I didn't realise the WE1010NA was only $110 from (sold by) Amazon.  MSRP is $197.50 which is why it didn't make my short list.   
   
It won't heat as fast as the Metcal, but $110 is really cheap if it is any good.  Tips are inexpensive too.  I'll think about it.     I did quickly look at WT1010 but it is just over $500.

The entry level model of the ET series has been in that price range for years now, at least from Amazon.  I notice that the power is up to 70 watts, so double most WTCP style stations.

I used an ET style station decades ago, but I think it was broken, which was why I ended up with it.  It was much lower power and I was never happy with it, but again, I think it was broken.

I have never used a METCAL style with RF direct heating.  I just noticed that the common METCAL stations are fixed temperature, which is good for production.  If I upgraded, then I would definitely want continuously variable temperature control.

Nothing outright wrong with it no, but its ancient technology and very long tip distance. It will perform similarly to FX888.
The grip is moderately sized, so it could be passable for SMD, though I prefer much thinner.

How many different technologies are there?  Ignoring everything which does not have closed loop control of the tip temperature:

1. Resistively heated Weller Magnastat, which relies on the curie temperature of the tip.  I still use these.  Did anybody other than Weller ever use this method?

2. Resistively heated continuous temperature control, like the Weller ET series.  I think the Weller ET series uses a thermocouple.

3. RF heated with temperature controlled by the curie temperature of the tip, which is the original METCAL design.

4. RF heated continuous temperature control, like the newer and more expensive METCAL stations?  Also uses a thermocouple.

RF heating of the tip should always have higher performance because of lower effective thermal resistance, but it comes at a much higher cost.  Amazon says $400 for the METCAL GT90, and I do not see many options for different tips.

[Andrew_Debbie]

I just noticed that the common METCAL stations are fixed temperature

After decades of living with a Magnastat, I'm OK  with temperature set by the tip.  The SFV range are 390C which I what I'd likely use nearly all  of the time.  SCV is 450C and STV is 330C.     Downside is that 450 / 330 means buying additional tips at $14-$22 each.


The PS-900 is RF heated  at 450kHz.   It uses their SmartHeat which is controlled by the Curie point. It heats up from cold in under 20 seconds  - a big improvement over my ancient Weller or the WE1010NA.   
One downside:  Changing the tip with the power on can (will?) damage the coil.  It is in bold in the Manual. A replacement coil is $57.  Something to think about before  getting one from eBay, even an open box.

The PS-900 ships with the no-sleep stand.    Getting the sleep stand is $50 extra unless I can find someone selling a sleep stand bundle.

New Prices for System with sleep stand and three useful  tips

WE1010NA  ~$129

FX-971  ~  $377
ADS200 Plus  $410
PS-900  $432   



Really the Hakko, PACE and Metcal are close enough to be essentially the same price.  Metcal tips are cheaper than Pace but not by much. 

[tooki]

I never see anybody suggest the Weller WE1010NA.  Is there something wrong with them?  The ETA tips are inexpensive and readily available.

At that price, You could buy two of them and install different tips for different applications.

It’s a cheaply-built, very basic, old-fashioned station with no standout characteristics.

(Didn’t it get panned for not even having fuses?)

[edavid]

How about the Thermaltronics TMT-1000S-K @ $160?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/thermaltronics-tmt-1000s-soldering-station/

[thm_w]

How many different technologies are there?  Ignoring everything which does not have closed loop control of the tip temperature:

1. Resistively heated Weller Magnastat, which relies on the curie temperature of the tip.  I still use these.  Did anybody other than Weller ever use this method?
2. Resistively heated continuous temperature control, like the Weller ET series.  I think the Weller ET series uses a thermocouple.
3. RF heated with temperature controlled by the curie temperature of the tip, which is the original METCAL design.
4. RF heated continuous temperature control, like the newer and more expensive METCAL stations?  Also uses a thermocouple.

RF heating of the tip should always have higher performance because of lower effective thermal resistance, but it comes at a much higher cost.  Amazon says $400 for the METCAL GT90, and I do not see many options for different tips.

I believe only weller used magnastat.
I'm less speaking about resistive vs RF, and more about resistive heater with the thermocouple in the heater core vs. resistive heater with the thermocouple in the tip itself. The further distance and thermal resistance decreases performance.
We saw that with the newer metcals (GT90 + GT120), you can buy integrated tip or non integrated tip with shared heater, and obviously the second one is lacking.

ADS200, FX971, and anything JBC all have the thermocouple in the tip itself. I've not seen a cutaway of FX971 yet, but JBC for example has a better press fit thermocouple tech, and outperforms T12, which is just a normal ball thermocouple pressed up behind the copper tip slug: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ksger-t12-tip-selection/msg3346686/#msg3346686

[David Hess]

I'm less speaking about resistive vs RF, and more about resistive heater with the thermocouple in the heater core vs. resistive heater with the thermocouple in the tip itself. The further distance and thermal resistance decreases performance.

The Weller ET has the thermocouple sticking into the tip, with the heater coupled into the tip from the outside like their Magnastat irons.  It might be possible to take a Magnastat tip, drill out the back, and use it as an ET tip.

[thm_w]

The Weller ET has the thermocouple sticking into the tip, with the heater coupled into the tip from the outside like their Magnastat irons.  It might be possible to take a Magnastat tip, drill out the back, and use it as an ET tip.

True but its still a loose screw fit, the heater to tip cartridge coupling is not as good as a permanent friction press fit in a cartridge unit.
I can't remember how it looks inside if the thermocouple was spring loaded to the back of the tip copper or not.