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New Electronics lab, Layout, Design. The ULTIMATE space(for under 1400 bucks)...
Posted by Tetzly on 16 Jan, 2019 18:51 -
Hello EEV. First time poster, long time lurker.
Let me start off by saying I am a beginner in electronics with no formal schooling whatsoever. I am a carpenter by trade, semi retired. I am American and use both systems of measurement, so please don't bust my balls if it's JUST that I use feet and inches sometimes... For the last few years I have been dabbling in electronics, specifically to acquire the knowledge to create a few circuits for specific projects I have been working on, and it has been going well in that regard. I have been taking math and electronics courses online to give me a better understanding of what I am doing, and I found myself really enjoying electronics, it brings me peace and happiness! But as you can see, I do my electrical work on a kitchen table in my living room...
So I am taking a big step and am going to build a custom electronics lab from ground up. I will document to process the best I can, and ask plenty of questions along the way. My goal and challenge is to have a small but highly functional and ergonomically correct space to work on electronics, test electronics, and a comfortable area for precision assembly of my final products....all in a 10'x7' room. In short, I want to make the ultimate electronics work area...a command center if you will, with everything ergonomically placed within reach, no expense spared(edit: 1400 dollars for this remodel)...
So far I have the room framed, sheet rocked, insulated, and powered. I have a new dedicated 20 amp service going just to the room, a small wall heater and thermostat. This was an old indoor grow room so the outlets are mainly on the lid (ceiling), I will probably move those to the perfect location once I figure out where that is precisely. I have a 6" exhaust fan and ducting leading outside. I plan on using this for a custom fume extraction system.
Here are pics of what I am starting with, I plan on moving the door to the location shown on the plans...
Anyway this first post is getting pretty long, I will wrap this up with my first question...What is the perfect depth of a work bench? I want to be able to reach the back wall for parts/tools and things. 3' seems a little far to reach, maybe 2' 8"? I know I need room for equipment and I want to get it just right. I could also make a "wrap around" style bench like sitting at a church organ...?
Anyway hello again all, good to be here. Anyone help on the depth thing? Input from people that have done this before? Thank you up front!
~Mike~ -
Welcome!
I always find space not enough for me, the more we have more we use.
My bench is 3000x900mm, so 90cm depth, i find a very good value because you have good space and still able to grab something at back, for wall you will need to get up, ex: plug something into socket.
I also have my walls with peg boards to hold tools and a upper table for other stuff.
Main part of my bench on attachment, everything on wood was homemade
As your space seens tight, try to optimize and have a good balance that seens good for you.
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Combining carpentry skills with an empty room is a great way to get to “the ultimate space” – your ultimate space.
Regarding the depth of your bench – it really depends on what you plan to work on and what instruments you might acquire. Because a lot of instruments are quite deep, I tend to prefer benches that are on the order of 42 to 44 inches deep so that there is ample room to work in front of the instruments.
As far as the layout and design to reach your ultimate space, I’m sure others will have lots of advice and there are threads on this board and others where people share pictures of their workspaces.
My ultimate workspace started with a room that needed updating. I thought about how to proceed until one day when I found a couple of tool chest end cabinets on sale at a local store. Their blue color suggested that I could build a bench with similar appearance to commercial benches from Lista and others. The two drawer cabinets form the support ‘pedestals’ at the ends of the bench.
I started by gutting the room. I replaced the ceiling and lighting, put car siding on the walls, painted the walls and doors, installed new oak trim and a new laminate floor. Then I went to work building the bench.
The bench is about 42 inches deep and about nine feet long. I started by creating a grid of 2x4 lumber attached to the drawer pedestals and to the wall. I placed two sheets of ½ inch OSB on top of the grid and then covered that with a work surface made of ¾ inch thick by 2 inch wide oak strips, sanded and finished with several coats of Old Masters satin poly. This top is covered with a custom fitted anti-static mat. Under the bench is an area of enclosed storage and a roll-out CPU cart. These are finished in enamel mixed to match the end cabinet color.
I have four monitors on the wall. Each has two inputs and together they accommodate VGA, DVI, HDMI, and Displayport so they can be used to test any device. They also can be used to mirror instrument screens and display datasheets, application notes, web resources, etc. These are flanked by two speakers to allow testing of audio equipment.
There are Wiremold 6 inch spacing outlet strips along the rear of the bench and under the front as well. Additional outlets are located under the bench for the CPU’s. All outlets are protected by GFCI.
On the other side of the room is an area with shelves for instrument storage and an enclosed rack that contains a GPS disciplined rubidium clock system, GPS network time source, UPS’s, power distribution, etc.
The end wall has a workshop library containing reference books, technical manuals, catalogs, and databooks. There is also a 42 inch TV / monitor with disk player and digital cable for entertainment and viewing of tutorials, etc.
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My workbench is 33" deep and my shelves are 12" deep so I have 21" of usable depth. I can comfortably reach the test toys on the shelves with this setup. I could probably go 35-36" but I don't think it would be as comfortable and I have long arms. I used 3/4" MDF for the table top with a 24" deep EDS mat and 3/4" plywood for the shelves with unfinished edges. It's not fancy. I didn't sand/stain anything so it looks like it should be in a garage somewhere. My office is my space only so I go with function over form. I even have a Sanford and Son lazy susan I made to work on company equipment from scraps out of the garage. Looks like crap and works as it should. The only money spent was for the turntable itself.
I appreciate the efforts that some people put into making a quality piece of furniture like xmo did. My father was far more skilled than I am. I am interested in good enuf.
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Great help so far, I am also a function over form type guy, and tend to make a mess. Xmo, your room is a real "bobby dazzler"...
After reading all your posts and giving it some thought, I was going to settle on 3' deep until i gave some thought to the dimensions of the lumber in the states here. I plan on building the table out of one solid piece by joining 3 boards (most likely 1x material (.75 inches), but perhaps go real solid and build it with 2x (1.5 inches)..either way anything larger than 2x12 (1.5"x 11.5" would be really expensive. So 3 x 11.5"...my table will be 34.5 inches deep, give or take what I lose when joining.
I am gonna get to work moving the door, moving the electrical, installing lighting, the fan, finishing the sheet rock and installing the floor...I will post a few pictures soon of my progress while pondering the true meaning of life, and paint color...
I might pick up a hard wired power strip that runs the length of my bench, was looking at some attractive slim looking units typically meant to install under the length of kitchen cabinets. Or perhaps maybe a server rack type power distribution system that switches on all my equipment from one location. Anyway the Misses is wondering what the hell i'm doing, I'll keep in touch with an update soon.
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Whatever you think you need for outlets, double it. I have 4, 8 outlet power strips and I have filled them all between network stuff, lighting and equipment. There is a 5th at the front of the bench for temporary use.
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"Whatever you think you need for outlets, double it. "
YES !!
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Whatever you think you need for outlets, double it.
This rule also applies when installing RJ45/CAT6 and/or fiber for data connections
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Whatever you think you need for outlets, double it.
This rule also applies when installing RJ45/CAT6 and/or fiber for data connections
No for those 5 times more than you think. Not joking. -
This room is in a corner of a 100 square meter unfinished basement, and the wall on the 7' length where my bench will be has no sheet rock on the other side. This way I can get to constructing the built-in aspects of my space, and put the electrical in where I need it after the fact, depending on the dimensions I decide to go with. This is a big plus for me. I will be able to not only install any outlets properly...after my framing, but I can add outlets and change locations as I see fit without too much effort.
Checking my electrical building codes currently while planning, right now this room is a red flag for sure, so in this process I will add the necessary outlets and switches in the proper locations to bring it up to code in that respect.
Pondering my lighting and fume extraction details...I'll post later on with close pictures of my ducting and fan unit that I have ready to install. I've never made a fume extraction system, but my 6" inline fan is nice and quiet and sucks like a 2 dollar who....um you get the idea, I figure it will work brilliant..IF..I can figure out some way to get the suction on my desk. Perhaps a flexible semi rigid duct that comes from the ceiling that I can position near my soldering, then easily bend it back up out of the way...not sure, gonna do some research there. Anyone else build a custom fume extraction system? What exactly do you use at the end of the system that sucks the fumes? -
You might want to check your dimensions on the plan they didn't add up for me.
For fume extraction they normally just use a fan to create suction and one or two filters, as you are probably aware they are fairly expensive to buy off the shelf. On Paul Daniels youtube channel (user Inflex on EEVblog) he shows how to make one fairly inexpensively, it depends really what you are going for.
Corgitronics (user Circuitous on EEVblog) has one of the better setups for a small space, the fume extraction is built into the back of the desk which you can find more info about on his website. The main test equipment shelving is adjustable, he also has adjustable steel shelving on the left which can take deeper and heavier test equipment. Magnification is to the side, accessible and doesn't interfere with shelving. Room for knees under the desk, plenty of storage.
The only thing I would change is I would have a larger LED display in front of me and my main oscilloscope below it and the keyboard and mouse on a slide tray or stowed under the bottom shelf. The hand tools I'd move where the PC is so they are nice and close.
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UPDATE! Sorry been super busy remodeling my home, and just got the OK from the wife for the work space. And Shock, you might be right, I kept changing my mind on dimensions, lots of erasing, and yeah...I'll get the fine points ironed out.
I plan on using this thread for sort of an online log of this entire project. It will involve details on the fume removal system, mains electrical wiring, lighting and dimmers, flooring, bench construction...all the way to finish and equipping the space. No real rhyme or reason, but I will try to include the details that I think might be in interesting or of use. This is for my own records as much as anything, but could be of help to anyone else that is considering building a custom electronic work space from ground up. I will keep detailed records of my expenditures and provide a total at the end (already in $620 US...lol)...remodeling is not cheap.
So I'm starting today, changing out the tandem 20/15 breaker with 15/15 amp (Seimens panel does not take GE breakers apparently regardless of what the interweb says, so I gotta drive a bit to get that). I have 12/2 wire running in the circuit with a 20 amp breaker, but the existing outlets are only rated for 15 amps(my mistake back in 2004 when I wired it, my house is still here though, thank god I had no issues). I could upgrade to 20 amp outlets but I figured I do not need it, and am just going to change the breaker to 15/15. Gotta move the door, frame down a sofit to cover the I-beam, and install all the new electrical. I have a few questions on 0-10 volt dimmers, but I am still researching that, I will post soon...take care.
PS...Got this scope and amp probe in my local wanted for 40 bucks(last pic). Thing apparently works! Not sure about the amp probe...but yeah SCORE! Can't wait to get my bench back setup.
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Some electrical thoughts:
It's OK to have 15 Amp outlets on a circuit fed by a 20 Amp breaker.
You normally don't want your workshop outlets to share the same circuit as your lights so an overload won't leave you in the dark.
Some people like to have some or all of their bench turn on with the room lights - that can be done with relay control.
You might want outlets controlled by the room lights for your soldering equipment - peace of mind that there's less likelihood you will leave the shop with something that's hot.
If you really want to follow code - see if your area now requires ground fault or arc fault protection.
Even if they don't - you should put a GFCI outlet as the first one on your bench power circuit and slave the rest for your protection.
Some people recommend an EPO for the circuit that serves the bench so that you can kill all power if something starts to fry. -
Some electrical thoughts:
It's OK to have 15 Amp outlets on a circuit fed by a 20 Amp breaker.
You normally don't want your workshop outlets to share the same circuit as your lights so an overload won't leave you in the dark.
Some people like to have some or all of their bench turn on with the room lights - that can be done with relay control.
You might want outlets controlled by the room lights for your soldering equipment - peace of mind that there's less likelihood you will leave the shop with something that's hot.
If you really want to follow code - see if your area now requires ground fault or arc fault protection.
Even if they don't - you should put a GFCI outlet as the first one on your bench power circuit and slave the rest for your protection.
Some people recommend an EPO for the circuit that serves the bench so that you can kill all power if something starts to fry.
Thanks for the input. I like the "soldering outlet" connected to the lights idea! I will do that for certain, you can never be too safe or have enough piece of mind. Had another question, do you think a GFCI outlet and a circuit breaker protected power strip is ideal? or would I safely be able to use a non circuit breaker protected power strip on the gfci protected outlet?
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I'd settle on the room layout before power then it's not done as an after thought. You always end up using way more outlets than you plan for. My requirements may be different, but I'd plan to have a minimum of 4 free outlets on my bench alone and that is after everything else is connected on the bench and shelves.
You are going to want the room wired to code, otherwise no insurance. Having all your test equipment on GFCIs is preferable as it's an early warning for accidents. As the room is small Emergency Power Off might be suitable within arms reach of you and the door if you can manage it. That way you can instruct family how to use it and then can make the room safe if assistance is ever required in a worse case scenario.
For me lighting and bench lighting on a separate circuit and individually switched, once you know where your shelves are going and how to light them you can have it prewired and attached later.
I wouldn't like my bench power controlled by the lighting as I might prefer to run something with the lights out overnight. Pilot lights can be used to show if bench power is on, a bit easier to see at a glance.
For soldering equipment, if you buy something like the station I use (the Pace ADS200) it has auto sleep and for $20 more stand detection which powers down the iron when it's returned, super quick to heat up as well so useful for minimal fumes in a small space.
Regarding power strips and outlets there are some things to consider. Non individually switched outlets turn on many pieces of equipment at the same time. The inrush current can nuisance trip some GFCI and circuit breaker type devices. If you do have gear with big transformers you can look into soft starting them.
Switching gear on at the rear and even accessing the power strips and switches may be awkward depending on how they are positioned. You may opt for controlling smaller amounts of gear at a time so that you can avoid turning 20 things on at once.
For this reason recently I moved to using PDUs (power distribution units) the same type as used on server racks. Mine are not switchable manually but can be through an interface. They do offer staggered power up which is a nice feature.
Don't forget a smoke alarm, fire extinguisher and internet, some of the other important things to put into the room as well. I'd look for other threads as well to get ideas. -
GreyWoolfe
What did you do to your poor dog!
I do not clean my dogs with IPA!!!! I was cleaning some sticker residue off of a computer case and hadn't put it away yet when I took the pictures.
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To me it appears that you had perhaps shrunk your dog, perhaps by washing him in very hot water!
(joke!)
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To me it appears that you had perhaps shrunk your dog, perhaps by washing him in very hot water!
(joke!)
Nope, that is a boutique dog so small, he fits inside of the insulated glass and looks like he is part of it.
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I just finished my latest dedicated home lab. Which is actually my daily workspace since I work from home 99% of the time. Here are a few ideas.
AC Power: I have 20 duplex outlets evenly spaced around the room on all four walls. All wiring is 12/2 for 20 amp service. Every other outlet is connected to a 20A combo arc-fault/ground-fault breaker, and every OTHER other outlet is connected to a second 20A combo breaker. The first set of outlets are white, and the second set are black, so at a glance you know which circuit you're on. All of my normal stuff, test equipment, etc. is powered off the white circuit, and anything AC powered that I'm working on is powered from the black circuit, so if my DUT pops a breaker the test equipment stays powered and can record the event, plus they don't get cycled unnecessarily. There are enough outlets everywhere that I'm never tempted to "just plug into the nearest one", the proper circuit is always close at hand.
Lighting: Gobs of recessed cans in the ceiling, every one with 5000K color temperature floods to give me pure white light without shadows. Lighting is also on a third dedicated breaker so the lights don't go out when my DUT does something stupid.
Dedicated soldering table: Includes an LED drafting-with-magnifier light on one of those foldy-bendy arms, but its power switch has been forced permanently on. This plugs into the same power strip as all of the heated tools (irons, desoldering guns, hot air tools, etc.). It's impossible to accidentally leave the hot tools powered because you cannot turn off the drafting light without depowering them too. (My son has done this a few times and ruined a few expensive desoldering tips.)
No windows that go to the floor: This space used to have a sliding glass door, but we replaced it with a 24 inch tall sliding window to regain the six feet of wall space so more bench space could be installed. There's no such thing as too much bench space. So far we have over 20 linear feet of bench space and we're looking at adding more. It's not a dark cave, though... it has 180 degrees of windows that look out onto the lake where we live for inspiration. During the day there's so much natural light that the overhead floods aren't even necessary. Natural light is a huge advantage, both visually and emotionally, so allow for it if your location permits.
Conduit: CAT6 is popular today, but standards change. Who knows what you'll need tomorrow. So before you seal up the walls, run at least one (I ran two, to opposite walls) Sch80 conduits from your home's mechanical space to your new lab. That way you can pull coax, fiber, whatever into the lab without opening up the walls (opening walls is a PITA anyway, and just think of the dust you'll get into your equipment when you cut, patch, and sand that drywall someday. YUCK.)
Permits: Definitely take out an electrical permit, get it inspected, and get the approval sticker. If anything goes wrong, the other respondent comments about insurance are absolutely true. Don't give the insurance company an excuse to deny coverage. Plus, you don't want to miss the expressions on the face of the inspector when he sees all those outlets!
There's a few things to keep in mind that many people might not consider. I've done this a few times and have accumulated a list of features I need in a home lab. Pick and choose those that are important to you, and report back. Home labs are the ultimate status symbol, and Jim Williams was correct when he said they are almost an unfair advantage to boot. -
electronic workshop
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Cool idea to recess the scope and storage into the wall! If you have the space on the other side, that's very convenient.
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Hello,
I don’t have too much space, so I built me a 113 cm x 67 cm workbench. The shelf is 113 cm x 30 cm, so I can put middle sized instruments on it.
To be able to use the whole surface of the bench, the shelf is 45 cm over the surface of the table. I keep the instruments that are not in use in a cupboard and the tools in drawers. -
UPDATE:
I have been chugging away a few hours a night. My wife told me "let's not overthink it"...which is code for "get this thing built already and stop buying stuff or installing any more outlets..."...
Next up, complete the framing, install the fume extraction system, and get the rest of the drywall hung and finished. I was originally going to do a "level 5" smooth wall finish, but after talking to the wife a bit I decided on regular knock down wall texture...this will allow me to easily fix any damage to the walls from hanging things/charts/posters/support brackets...etc... in case I want to resell the house or re purpose the room(doubtful but just in case).
As far as the fume extraction system goes, I was originally going to use a 6" fan, but it was so powerful it made the old door warp from the pressure in the room when I turned it on. I downgraded to a 42 watt 4" fan, and after a little testing determined it to be sufficient in removing smoke from about a foot away from the soldering iron which is good for me. I plan on installing a fan speed control in the future, but my costs are piling up big time, so regular switch for now. I have a small drop down ceiling that will house the fan and it's dedicated outlet so I can plug it in as opposed to hard wire it to my circuit, allowing me to service/replace/upgrade it in the future. It will run off the "soldering station" outlet and will also only be usable when the light is switched on to the room.
I debated about the height of the bench(es) for a few hours, and determined that 31" to the top is ergonomically correct for me based on my height. My wife's bench will be 28" to the top. I am not close to building the benches yet, but needed to make this determination to correctly place a few outlets.
I plan on using 2'x4' integrated led troffer lights. Typically these are for commercial applications in t-bar ceilings. This will provide a few challenges that I will cover in my next post, mainly how to frame them in without purchasing additional and expensive flush mount kits.
I have a few specific questions about 0-10 volt led dimming and will post those soon.
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Hello,
I don’t have too much space, so I built me a 113 cm x 67 cm workbench. The shelf is 113 cm x 30 cm, so I can put middle sized instruments on it.
To be able to use the whole surface of the bench, the shelf is 45 cm over the surface of the table. I keep the instruments that are not in use in a cupboard and the tools in drawers.
I prefer drawers and cabinets with doors for tool/equipment storage as well. Pegboard and other open storage systems always bugged me a bit due to dust and spiders...lol. I get that sometimes it's cool to display your hobby collection, whatever that might be, but when it comes to electronics, I prefer to keep unused equipment stored dust free.