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Hey there,
I've seen and used JBC T210A for SMT soldering in repair / mod work in more confined corners of PCBs, where my trusty 3mm chisel tip at home won't go ;-)
(and there isn't any finer tip for my station at home)
Are there decent hobbyist-friendly priced fine-tip soldering thingies out there, for the more delicate work?
Thanks in advance,
TS
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Hey there,
Get a hot air station if your 3mm tip does everything else you need.
I've seen and used JBC T210A for SMT soldering in repair / mod work in more confined corners of PCBs, where my trusty 3mm chisel tip at home won't go ;-)
(and there isn't any finer tip for my station at home)
Are there decent hobbyist-friendly priced fine-tip soldering thingies out there, for the more delicate work?
Thanks in advance,
TS -
Get a hot air station if your 3mm tip does everything else you need.
Maybe I haven't been clear enough as to what I want to do.
But for repair / modding work, my Atten Hot Air station isnt't all that helpful when I want to solder one QFP pin in some crowded corner, for which a fine tip and a thin "rod" (whatever you call that thing the tip is plugged into) would really be nice.
EDIT:
Probably my mentioning "repair" is somewhat misplaced, I can see how in the ears of a pro that calls for a hot air station indeed, of you want to replace ICs and stuff, that was for some reason not what I had in mind when I said that.
I really am looking for some fine tipped little thing, though ;-)
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Steve, such are the pains of a poorly laid out PCB with zero thought given to repair/rework.
As you give no indication to your whereabouts I can't offer local solutions other than to say that any station that can take the common Hakko 900M tips would be my choice. -
I think the hobbyking 936 clone for $20 comes with such a tip as the default (which is useless for most other work).
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I was surprised when I googled "JBC T210A." The way I read the OP, I expected this to be a tip for your iron. It's a handle.
Unless you examine and compare the actual tips that this takes versus other irons, I'd say it tells you nothing about how good it is for any given task. Only whether or not you might prefer the way it feels in your hand.
If you can't reach what needs to be reached, this is usually dictated by the first inch of the iron tip/shaft. A shorter, lighter soldering iron handpiece is hardly ever going to make any difference in this regard; it has to be attached to your hand in order to do anything useful. If you can't reach part of the board due to the handpiece of your iron, you will likely have to do some further deconstructing of the board/device to fix/modify it. Then put it back together when done. Sometimes you have to temporarily make things worse before you can (hopefully) make them better.
There are plenty of irons that have long, skinny, pointy tips for point to point rework. I would put a (hakko) CF1 tip on the short list, along with a BR. Add any other you like, but the rest are mostly interchangeable, IMO (the point could be shaped like a tiny chisel, a tiny screwdriver, a little tiny leprechaun or unicorn, and it wouldn't matter for any practical purpose). Some irons won't have a particularly good variety of available tips, IMO, but you can decide that for yourself. Hakko is my first choice, for several reasons. Finding and buying various (T18 in particular) tips is one of them. Hakko website is clean and simple, and all the tips listed in orderly fashion; they have a very nice selection of tips, most all of which are easily available in my neck of the world... meaning they are usually in stock at several retailers I already use at reasonable cost and with fast shipping. -
Ah, I'm based in Germany.
As for "it's a handle", yeah but a handle which has a lot smaller diameter than the average one I have seen, including mine. It is also shorter.
Which means 1) that it will only take relatively thin tips, and 2) it is much less unwieldy and can be use for more in-place work in crowded circumstances (e.g. in-case, close to a border "wall" at the PCB edge, maybe wires in your way, you name it) - or so I imagine. The fewer things that need to be disassembled, the fewer time it takes. And sometimes it is also just inconvenient on many levels to not have the PCB in the base of the enclosure, for stability, contacting, and what not. (No I won't build pogo fixtures for my one-off hobby stuff ;-)
"less unwieldy" Also means I can hold it in all sorts of funny angles in crowded circumstances compared to the "regular size" holder with thick cable (in comparison)
So I do think it does say something.
The whole tip diameter also being thinner means I can solder to a pin of some IC without also soldering an adjacent 0402 part or whatever. Call it poor layout, but the thing is, with that small thing they have at work, it does work.
For reference: I have some Weller *hobby* station for 70 bucks (the red one, but there isnÄt much difference in dimensions of the tip holder with the blue industrial ones).
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I reiterate my opinion. If you like the handpiece better, then use it. But make sure it takes the tip you like, before you buy it.Quote
The whole tip diameter also being thinner means I can solder to a pin of some IC without also soldering an adjacent 0402 part or whatever. Call it poor layout, but the thing is, with that small thing they have at work, it does work.
This has nothing to do with the handpiece. You can buy tiny tips for any big name soldering iron for electrical work. Also, tiny tip has very little practical importance for SMD soldering, outside of jumper wires (where it is admittedly essential). It's ok if you touch the adjacent 0402 pad, as long as you don't hit both of its pads at once.QuoteAs for "it's a handle", yeah but a handle which has a lot smaller diameter than the average one I have seen, including mine. It is also shorter.
I'm gonna call this on a pipe dream. Good luck with that. If you really wanna play this game, a bog standard hakko 888/936 will have more reach than these micro pencil handpieces. The metal shaft between the tip and handle is thinner diameter than the handle on a micropencil iron for reaching into the corner of an enclosure or between wires.
Which means 1) that it will only take relatively thin tips, and 2) it is much less unwieldy and can be use for more in-place work in crowded circumstances (e.g. in-case, close to a border "wall" at the PCB edge, maybe wires in your way, you name it) - or so I imagine. The fewer things that need to be disassembled, the fewer time it takes.
The "micro" handpiece options are typically designed for shorter tip to grip distance, often with lower thermal mass (and usually more $$$) tips to further help with your psychology and the company's bottom line, which may give some users slightly more control and/or lower fatigue in specific applications.. This has very little to do with reaching into tight corners of an enclosure or getting around wiring or electrlyic cans or heatsinks.
I work with a company that outfits their solderers with Weller WD micro pencils. AFAIC, the only benefit they get is paying $30.00 for tips that don't last a year and a handpiece that is bendy where it meets the tip and is more fiddly to put back in the stand. If I suspect that I might need to do any soldering on site, I bring my own soldering iron which cost 1/3 as much.
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If you are keen to reach into an awkward spot, I would think a Radio Shack firebrand would be useful on occasion. You could bend the 2.00 pure copper tip any which way and file the pint to w/e shape you need to do the one job.
The JBC tip/heater combo is pretty short. Perhaps you could modify your micro handpiece. You could maybe shorten it. Or put a ball joint in it so you can bend it?
The WD micropencil tips have a 3.5mm stereo connector on them. In a pinch, I suppose you could just wire up a 3.5mm jack and hold it in a pair of needlenose pliers. Or glue up a 45 degree handle for it. IOW, if you have a specific problem, you can come up with a specific solution. If you just want to find the shortest handpiece, you can look up specs. I don't think too many other people are concerned with this spec.
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This has nothing to do with the handpiece. You can buy tiny tips for any big name soldering iron for electrical work. Also, tiny tip has very little practical importance for SMD soldering, outside of jumper wires (where it is admittedly essential).
I do QFP with 3mm chisel. Even 1-wire-to-1-pin, where the row of pins is "free standing". I think I know.
1-pin on the QFP, or even funnier, some tiny no-lead package where I need to solder 1 wire to 1 contact under the microscope - where the contact is next to some 0402 and you'd like to solder to only one of them and 3 litres of flux won't make sure your pointy but still large diameter tip won't do that - not so cool.
My hobby Weller can't receive the regular tips, alas.QuoteThis has very little to do with reaching into tight corners of an enclosure or getting around wiring or electrlyic cans or heatsinks.
Funny then how the JBC combo did exactly that for me, allowing for angles and positions not possible with larger gear, and it's so nice to not burn away plastic case close to the board edge, in a (prototype of a) product where the PCB must be in (3D-printed) case to meaningfully function, and the number of PCB vs. case extractions / insertions before plastic wear-out is very limited. And the PCB is very crowded because it has to fit into a case of given dimensions, which in turn needs to fit onto a third party's product over which you ave no control.Quotethe only benefit they get is paying $30.00 for tips that don't last a year
That sounds bad, but then again, my cheap-ass tips *at home* last many, many years.
Let me throw something in here quickly:
I'm often asking noob questions *theory* wise here, as I'm not an EE and only read something here and there.
But don't assume I can't solder. Not being able to design certain schematics from scratch for lacking theory does not mean one can't have *built* stuff from other people's schematics.
I have... like... soldered before. Mkay.
I can see where the urge to steer me away from my expressly stated desires
comes from, but it sure is annoying.
I know what I want and why I want it - and it does come directly from using tools at work (where I sometimes do something because just because I'm no EE doesn't mean I have to slap every single bit of soldering that needs doing on a full EE's desk and play with my thumbs meanwhile), not just my imagination, which merely extends my ideas about what I'll be able to do, even if that's crap - what I already know I can do because I did id, is enough.
I simply wanted to know whether there is "A Rigol to the Agilent" kinda thing for that JBC combo - because I like it, but my rare hobby usage does not warrant that kind of expense - neither are the requirements for hobby stuff as "heavy duty".
Judging mercilessly from that, most replies here are off topic, and wasting the time of all involved.Quoteand a handpiece that is bendy where it meets the tip and is more fiddly to put back in the stand.
I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Apparently nothing I experienced.
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if you want a fine tip that actually gets hot enough,
and you dont want to spend shitloads of cash on a JBC then look for a chinese thing that uses T12 tips.
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I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Apparently nothing I experienced.
Have you used Weller microhandpiece for the WD stations? This was what I was referring to. Where the tip meets the rest of the handpiece, there is a degree of play/flex. A headphone socket just doesn't have much axial rigidity. The shortness and the spring contacts on the TRS rings allow significant movement.
I have not used the JBC micro pencil.
STJ, I dunno, it sounds like OP is looking for shorter handpiece to maneuver in a case/chassis. The T12 iron handpieces are slightly longer overall than say 936 clone. Bakon handpiece is only a tad longer. 2027 is probably over half an inch longer than 936 iron, tip to strain relief.QuoteI simply wanted to know whether there is "A Rigol to the Agilent" kinda thing for that JBC combo
Hakko makes a microhandpiece for the FX951. It is the FM2032 handpiece, which takes pricey T30 tips. I dunno what the price is in Germany, but here, it is a lot. 40.00 a tip. Mind, I have never used it. It looks like it might be more solid than the standard 2027 handpiece, which is rather bendy, itself, where the two halves of the handle come together. Micro pencils tend to be expensive and don't seem to garner much attention from clones... which is perhaps a reflection, to some degree, of the amount of extra utility they provide? It's perhaps largely a matter of ergos or personal preference? I have always considered them as existing partly because if you make it and charge a boatload, someone with money in pocket will decide it is better.QuoteFunny then how the JBC combo did exactly that for me, allowing for angles and positions not possible with larger gear, and it's so nice to not burn away plastic case close to the board edge, in a (prototype of a) product where the PCB must be in (3D-printed) case to meaningfully function, and the number of PCB vs. case extractions / insertions before plastic wear-out is very limited. And the PCB is very crowded because it has to fit into a case of given dimensions, which in turn needs to fit onto a third party's product over which you ave no control.
If you have specific problem to be solved, then of course. If buying X iron will save you from extra time/labor on tens or thousands of builds for a specific volume project, you can recoup the cost of the handpiece/tips and then some. Whether that's a function of the length/thickness of the handpiece or something else. Buying a solution to a problem you may never have seems like a losing bet to me. Esp if you are bypassing a more gen purpose iron with lower maintenance costs and going straight from 3mm chisel-only iron to micro $$ iron as one of your primary options.QuoteAre there decent hobbyist-friendly priced fine-tip soldering thingies out there, for the more delicate work?
Your OP made it sound like are looking for iron that can take finer tips. Apologies for myself and the rest of us that wasted your time. Perhaps you can apologize to everyone who wasted THEIR time. The original post perhaps blurs the line between micropencil and fine tips, suggesting that one is dependent on the other. Maybe you should start a new thread to compare micropencil handpieces, specifically. -
Given your location, you might want to look into Ersa (an i-Con 1V + i-tool in particular). It has a short tip-to-grip distance, yet it's suitable for both thru-hole and SMD work.
The 102 series tips it uses are reasonably priced, offer lots of shapes/profiles, and are of very high quality (will last you a very long time with basic care, aka keeping the tip tinned). It's not exactly a budget station, but given how frequently it'll be used, it's worth it IMHO (and notably less expensive than JBC or Weller).
A Hakko FX-951 would be another station worth investigating that's not horribly expensive, and can be had from Batterfly in Italy for those in the UK or EU (here). Hakko's tips are excellent, and they offer a lot of different shapes as well.
These tips ^ can also work with the Asian made stations that use the T12 tips as well, as it's what they copied. -
^The diameter of T12 shaft is 215 thousandths of an inch. This is significantly skinnier than the barrel of a 936 iron, which is 300 thousandths. Perhaps this gives you the extra maneuverability to get into tight spots that OP seems interested in? (OTOH, the actual tips on the T12's are generally short and stubby to maintain good thermal efficiency and reponse, so long skinny T18 tips will have much more maneuverability in the first fraction of an inch, where it may make a difference among tightly spaced components which are not heatsinks/electrolytic towers).
I have a couple of T12 clone stations, Bakon and Suhan, and they work very well, the both of them. Under 30.00, sans any iron stand.
I don't know what are the dimensions of the T30 tips which the 2032 handpiece takes. For 40.00 a tip, it better be something significant, lol.
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this type of tip is probably whats needed.
https://www.banggood.com/T12-JL02-Solder-Tip-for-FX-950-FX-951-p-1052632.html
too bad they have been out of stock for months
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^It costs a bit more from Asian eBay sellers, but I got mine there for probably under 8.00. This is surely among the finest, longest, skinnest tips for a T12 iron. I have to crank up the temp to get this working. I agree, this is among the best emergency situation tip to have in the grab bag to get into a tight, awkward space.
Some people use tip like this for general purpose work. For extreme versatility, it is hard to beat. But rarely do you utilize the benefits of this kind of tip to want to habitually suffer/compensate for the cons, IMO. -
^It costs a bit more from Asian eBay sellers, but I got mine there for probably under 8.00. This is surely among the finest, longest, skinnest tips for a T12 iron. I have to crank up the temp to get this working. I agree, this is among the best emergency situation tip to have in the grab bag to get into a tight, awkward space.
A bent conical is one of my favorite profiles (excellent for passives, trace repair, tacking corners, and pulling bridges).
Some people use tip like this for general purpose work. For extreme versatility, it is hard to beat. But rarely do you utilize the benefits of this kind of tip to want to habitually suffer/compensate for the cons, IMO.
That said, I've a Weller WD1 which makes it very extremely convenient to compensate the temperature (tap one button for the right preset).
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Luis Rossman favors the bent conical, too.
Personally, I favor bits where the solder doesn't wick up the side into a big blog that has to be cleaned off. With a tip that keeps the solder at the end, you use that solder rather than have to clean it off so frequently. And you can apply solder to the joint by loading it onto the tip. Pointy conicals don't do that. I personally do all of those things you listed just fine with much larger tips than BR. Fact, I don't remember last time I used a BR; I keep them around just in case.
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Luis Rossman favors the bent conical, too.
Don't get me wrong; I'm quite fond of tinned face only bevels as well as I own every size available for my irons (NT & LT series).
Personally, I favor bits where the solder doesn't wick up the side into a big blog that has to be cleaned off. With a tip that keeps the solder at the end, you use that solder rather than have to clean it off so frequently. And you can apply solder to the joint by loading it onto the tip. Pointy conicals don't do that. I personally do all of those things you listed just fine with much larger tips than BR. Fact, I don't remember last time I used a BR; I keep them around just in case.
FWIW, my primary use for a bent conical is for SMD passives (not only does it get into tight spots, I'm really fond of the ergonomics). This could change with another make of station though, as some seem too big to my eyes. -
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This could change with another make of station though, as some seem too big to my eyes.
I have 3 different sizes. For my T12 iron they make a long and a short. For my T18 iron, they only make one, which is smack dab in the middle. I can't not have these. They just look the biz. I just never use them.
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SMD stands for Surface Mount Device and indicates that the component is mounted on the surface of the circuit board in contrast to through-hole components which are mounted in holes. Here you are looking to build a cost-effective setup for SMD work for which I can definitely recommend you to get it for $50 which is just silly… I solder 0402 parts with high efficiency.
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If you want tip selection and esd safe for 100 euros then Hakko FX-888D. There is about 30 different T18 tips for this station. It is not a super slim design but it's reliable and heaps of power for smd and the tips hold up well. Tip selection is ultra important.
If that is too expensive the Yihua 936 from hobby king is one of the cheapest clones and best to use the same original Hakko T18 tips on it. I use this myself and don't have problems. Otherwise check on ebay for cheap 936 clones. Will cost you probably less than a third of the price to setup.
The Bakon 950D is another cheap clone however it's not esd safe. The T12 tips are superior heating wise but this may not be an issue on finer soldering. The handle is pretty good, if you get one that takes T13 tips it's thinner still. The cost of the clone tips are more expensive due to the inbuilt elements, but it's based on a superior station. To buy original tips you might be looking at 20 euro or more. -
TS100 finest tip (TS-I, TS-ILS) works very well, i have tested and the solder stick to the end of the tip, very good thermals able to solder tiny smd legs one by one. Just good as my ERSA i-con 2V (i-tool + 0.3mm conical tip)
JBC also have a new analog station in a budget (JBC - BT-2BWA)
ERSA i-con 1 is cheaper and very good
Both irons have high quality tips, long duration and excelent performances
TS100 does not have bent tips yet and not a big selection, but the avaliable tips are more than enough for the most PCB soldering jobs -
JBC also have a new analog station in a budget (JBC - BT-2BWA)
I'd bet $$$ that the T210 (micro iron) would work with it as well.
BTW, how are the ergonomics of the TS100? -
FWIW, ebay.de has some decent used stations ATM (here).
No Metcal stations, but there's Weller, Ersa, JBC, Pace, and even Edsyn units available.