Which one would you recommend Siglent SSA3032X-R or Rigol RSA3030N?

• Which one would you recommend Siglent SSA3032X-R or Rigol RSA3030N?
  Posted by Darko8 on 20 Nov, 2020 15:00
• Hi,
  
  I'm in a process of buying VNA and since it is my first purchase of proper VNA or spectrum analyzer, I would need some help deciding between these two:
  Which one would you recommend Siglent SSA3032X-R or Rigol RSA3030N?
  
  Price of Siglent is slightly lower but with Rigol is currently having some promotion so I could get EMI tool with probes for less.
  
  Anyone has any experience with any of those?
  
  Any advice will be appreciated since I don't have much experience buying VNA & SA. What should I pay attention to?
  
  I almost forgot to add: I need it for EMI precompliance testing and antena/filter/balun tuning/matching.
  
  Thank you, Darko
• #1 Reply
  Posted by tautech on 22 Nov, 2020 07:01
• Unless you specifically need the RTSA consider the much cheaper SVA1032X. Except for the lack of RTSA the functionality/feature set is identical.
  The range breaks down like this:
  SSA3000X Plus = spectrum analyser
  SVA1000X        = SA + VNA
  SSA3000X-R     = RTSA + VNA
  
  Options packages are mostly identical as is operation.
  There are 2 promo packages running although I'm not aware if you can take advantage of both:
  https://int.siglent.com/info/detail-40.html
  
  https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/equip-the-new-vna-bundle-and-make-antenna-matching-easy/
  https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/a-new-bundle-for-emi-pre-compliance-test/
  
• #2 Reply
  Posted by Feynman on 22 Nov, 2020 21:00
• Did you consider the Rohde & Schwarz FPC1500? You'll get the "all options" bundle for 4.400€, which is an excellent deal in my opinion.
• #3 Reply
  Posted by Darko8 on 23 Nov, 2020 14:39
• Hi,
  
  I did not know about Rohde & Schwarz FPC1500, so I'll consider it too, now that I know it exists. I took a quick look and it seems nice, but I would really like to have realtime spectrum analyzer with option to 'record' data and send it to PC for further analysis. If I'm not mistaken, Rohde & Schwarz FPC1500 is not realtime spectrum analyzer.
  
  I have one specific problem with loosing some packets on wireless unit I developed and I would like to 'debug' what exactly happens on RF path when packet is lost.
  
  Currently I'm leaning slightly more to the Siglent SSA3032X-R than Rigol RSA3030N (simply based on the price) but if someone knows some feature which would change recommendation to Rigol RSA3030N, please let me know.
  
  Best regards, Darko
• #4 Reply
  Posted by Darko8 on 26 Nov, 2020 13:16
• Hi,
  
  Siglent SSA3032X-R is in my basket, any last concern?
  
  Regards, Darko
• #5 Reply
  Posted by tautech on 01 Dec, 2020 08:44
• Quote from: Darko8 on 26 Nov, 2020 13:16

  Hi,
  
  Siglent SSA3032X-R is in my basket, any last concern?
  
  Regards, Darko
  

  Be sure to get a VNA cal kit too as per the 5% off all promo. 
  
• #6 Reply
  Posted by Darko8 on 01 Dec, 2020 22:18
• Hi,
  
  I did not order VNA cal KIT, because I mainly connect to SMA devices, so it does not make sense to buy N calibration kit and then use adapters, it is most likely much worse than homemade cal kit.
  For start I'll use good load that I bought on auction and goes to 18GHz, and then I'll try my luck with open and short that comes vith nanoVNA, and just for comparison I'll make my own kit to see how it compares.
  (I'll probably follow procedure in thred DIY Short, Open and LOAD for VNA calibration).
  
  Regards, Darko
• #7 Reply
  Posted by tautech on 01 Dec, 2020 22:25
• Darko, there is a range of Siglent Cal kits both SMA and N type from 4.5 GHz to 9 GHz however they are only listed completely on the US website:
  https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/vna-calibration-kits/
• #8 Reply
  Posted by kladit on 12 Dec, 2020 15:39
• @tautech
  
  The SSA-3000X-R offers VNA S11 and S21 measurements. (with a build in bridge to my understanding)
  
  Why then reflection measurement is an option to which an external bridge is needed ?
  
  Can you tell us where are which differences and why?
• #9 Reply
  Posted by tautech on 12 Dec, 2020 21:09
• Quote from: kladit on 12 Dec, 2020 15:39

  @tautech
  
  The SSA-3000X-R offers VNA S11 and S21 measurements. (with a build in bridge to my understanding)
  
  Why then reflection measurement is an option to which an external bridge is needed ?
  
  Can you tell us where are which differences and why?
  

  Not entirely sure however when X-R were first released RM was an option however this functionality is also available in VNA mode with Log Mag measurement.
  VNA and DTF were both features that were added later free after X-R release.
  Pics of each:
  
  Log Mag Pink trace:
  
  
  In VNA mode all the same measurements are available as are in RM however RM allows for them at one time yet you can overlay all these measurement types in VNA mode using the 4 traces available.
  
  IME with the external reflection bridge vs the inbuilt SVA/X-R bridge, the inbuilt bridge offers better directivity hence my preference has been for the SVA/X-R platform so to not need an external bridge although it does offer additional isolation from the DUT.
  
• #10 Reply
  Posted by Darko8 on 22 Dec, 2020 18:22
• Hi,
  
  I finally got SSA3032X-R today. Now I'm waiting for EMI probes they forgot to send with SSA3032X-R...
  Unit looks good, it is very heavy which implies a lot of RF shielding inside.
  I will test it in following days.
  I think I need to start by sorting out good/bad cables which I bought over the year from various sources.
  
  Regards, Darko
  
• #11 Reply
  Posted by Darko8 on 24 Dec, 2020 18:10
• Hi,
  
  Just a quick update. I'm very satisfied with Siglent SSA3032X-R unit, it is very capable and responsive device.
  
  Regards, Darko
• #12 Reply
  Posted by tautech on 24 Dec, 2020 19:42
• Glad you like it as I'm pretty fond of this family of devices too. 
  
  There is a recent firmware update for X-R and you can get it here:
  https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=54
  
  Check the release notes. 
• #13 Reply
  Posted by kladit on 26 Dec, 2020 08:39
• Darko8,
  
  can you please publish screenshots of it's noise here
  pre-amp on, 0dB attentuation, BW 1Hz and BW 10Hz?
• #14 Reply
  Posted by mhsprang on 03 Jan, 2021 19:23
• What I'd be interested in, is a screen shot of a very clean (read: low phase noise) crystal oscillator or RF generator. I purchased an R&S FPC 1500 and I regret it. It's phase noise is horrible. If I measure a signal of my Siglent 2000 series function generator on the FPC 1500 and compare it with what my R&S (30 year old) CMU 200 shows, I see a world of difference on 10 kHz of the carrier (CMU 200 is 20 dB better). Also when doing an IP3 measurement using a two tone signal, the level of the intermodulation products shown on the FPC 1500 are at least 10 dB higher than on the CMU 200, which means that the FPC 1500 distorts too much by itself.
  
  Best,
  Meindert
• #15 Reply
  Posted by tautech on 04 Jan, 2021 06:44
• Quote from: mhsprang on 03 Jan, 2021 19:23

  What I'd be interested in, is a screen shot of a very clean (read: low phase noise) crystal oscillator or RF generator. I purchased an R&S FPC 1500 and I regret it. It's phase noise is horrible. If I measure a signal of my Siglent 2000 series function generator on the FPC 1500 and compare it with what my R&S (30 year old) CMU 200 shows, I see a world of difference on 10 kHz of the carrier (CMU 200 is 20 dB better). Also when doing an IP3 measurement using a two tone signal, the level of the intermodulation products shown on the FPC 1500 are at least 10 dB higher than on the CMU 200, which means that the FPC 1500 distorts too much by itself.
  
  Best,
  Meindert
  

  PN is marginally better than specified in datasheets IME although I've yet to have a X-R cross my bench.
  Some 2 tone tests here:
  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/two-tone-test-with-scope-and-sa/
• #16 Reply
  Posted by kladit on 05 Jan, 2021 10:03
• I just ordered a SSA-3000X-R and in between I discovered a discrepancy
  between datasheet and manual regarding the VNA.
  
  In the datasheet the start frequency  of the VNA is 100 kHz.
  
  In the manual (downloaded from Batronix) the start frequency (page 64) is 10 MHz.
  
  Unfortunately the manual is not a dedicated SSA3000X-R one.
  
  The TG starts at 100 kHz so I hope the VNA will do also.
  
  @tautech
  Can you tell/(find out) what is the factual start frequency of the SSA3000X-R VNA?
• #17 Reply
  Posted by tautech on 05 Jan, 2021 19:24
• Quote from: kladit on 05 Jan, 2021 10:03

  I just ordered a SSA-3000X-R and in between I discovered a discrepancy
  between datasheet and manual regarding the VNA.
  
  In the datasheet the start frequency  of the VNA is 100 kHz.
  
  In the manual (downloaded from Batronix) the start frequency (page 64) is 10 MHz.
  
  Unfortunately the manual is not a dedicated SSA3000X-R one.
  
  The TG starts at 100 kHz so I hope the VNA will do also.
  
  @tautech
  Can you tell/(find out) what is the factual start frequency of the SSA3000X-R VNA?
  

  As the User manual covers all SSA3000X Plus, SSA3000X-R and SVA1000X models the 10 MHz VNA Start spec specifically applies to just 1 model; SVA1015X.
  See the Note on P64:
  [1] - [6] Different models have different values. Please refer to Data Sheet.
  
  SVA1015X is the only model with this limitation as all other models in VNA mode have a Start spec of 100KHz.
  
  Reference docs:
  Manual:
  https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/09/UserManual_UG0703P_E02A.pdf
  SSA3000X-R datasheet:
  https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2020/12/SSA3000X-R_DataSheet_DS0703R_E02B.pdf
  SVA1000X Datasheet:
  https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2020/12/SVA1000X_DataSheet_DS0701X_E04B.pdf
• #18 Reply
  Posted by kladit on 05 Jan, 2021 21:18
• tautech, thank you very much for your answer.
  HNY, stay save.
• #19 Reply
  Posted by DL4RAJ on 12 Apr, 2021 15:03
• Hi tautech,
  
  meanwhile I also own a SSA3032X-R.
  While I love all the features it is offering there is a major draw  back.
  As the minimum RBW in TG mode is only 3kHz (as opposed to models SSA3021/32X, or -Xplus
  which have 30Hz!!)) it is impossible to measure narrow crystal or notch filters on HF or high Q diplexers for VHF.
  Is there any hope that Siglent will come up with narrower RBWs in TG mode by a firmware update?
  After all they did so for the SSA3021/32X.Early models in 2016 had 30kHz RBW but this shortcoming was
  addressed by a firmware update,so they offer 30Hz since then.
  
  Greetings
  Clemens
  DL4RAJ
• #20 Reply
  Posted by tautech on 12 Apr, 2021 15:32
• Quote from: DL4RAJ on 12 Apr, 2021 15:03

  Hi tautech,
  
  meanwhile I also own a SSA3032X-R.
  While I love all the features it is offering there is a major draw  back.
  As the minimum RBW in TG mode is only 3kHz (as opposed to models SSA3021/32X, or -Xplus
  which have 30Hz!!)) it is impossible to measure narrow crystal or notch filters on HF or high Q diplexers for VHF.
  Is there any hope that Siglent will come up with narrower RBWs in TG mode by a firmware update?
  After all they did so for the SSA3021/32X.Early models in 2016 had 30kHz RBW but this shortcoming was
  addressed by a firmware update,so they offer 30Hz since then.
  
  Greetings
  Clemens
  DL4RAJ
  

  Yes the latest datasheet from Jan 21 confirms this.
  Good question, I'll ask.
  
  Do you have the Jan 21 firmware release installed ?
  https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Spectrum_analyzer/SSA3000X-R_V3.2.2.4.0_EN.zip
• #21 Reply
  Posted by DL4RAJ on 13 Apr, 2021 17:13
• Hi tautech,
  
  yes,I have have the Jan 21 firmware release installed.
  Thanks for asking Siglent!
  If narrower than 3kHz TG-mode-RBWs , down to 30Hz RBW could be added like in the
  less expensive models this would make this model a perfect allrounder and for sure
  attract more prospective buyers.
  
  Greetings
  Clemens
• #22 Reply
  Posted by tautech on 13 Apr, 2021 17:24
• Quote from: DL4RAJ on 13 Apr, 2021 17:13

  Hi tautech,
  
  yes,I have have the Jan 21 firmware release installed.
  Thanks for asking Siglent!
  If narrower than 3kHz TG-mode-RBWs , down to 30Hz RBW could be added like in the
  less expensive models this would make this model a perfect allrounder and for sure
  attract more prospective buyers.
  
  Greetings
  Clemens
  

  Clemens, normally I would have a reply by now however I believe the SSA Product Manager has gone to Shanghai for the Chinese Electronica Exhibition so it may be a few days before we catch up again.
  Bump me if you hear nothing by next week.
• #23 Reply
  Posted by DL4RAJ on 13 Apr, 2021 18:53
• OK,thanks!
  
• #24 Reply
  Posted by Thilo° on 29 Jun, 2021 15:43
• Hi tautech,
  
  

  Quote from: tautech on 13 Apr, 2021 17:24

  Quote from: DL4RAJ on 13 Apr, 2021 17:13

  yes,I have have the Jan 21 firmware release installed.
  Thanks for asking Siglent!
  If narrower than 3kHz TG-mode-RBWs , down to 30Hz RBW could be added like in the
  less expensive models this would make this model a perfect allrounder and for sure
  attract more prospective buyers.
  

  Clemens, normally I would have a reply by now however I believe the SSA Product Manager has gone to Shanghai for the Chinese Electronica Exhibition so it may be a few days before we catch up again.
  Bump me if you hear nothing by next week.
  

  
  does the 3kHz RBW in TG mode limitation affect all SSA3000X-R models (i.e. 3.2GHz, 5GHz, 7.5GHz) or the 3.2GHz model only?
  
  And is this issue still open or solved by now?
  
  Thanks,
  Thilo