Agilent 54831D modernising

[bostonman]

You bring up some valid points. Guess I somewhat got caught up with seeing others upgrade to XP (and I think even newer versions of Windows) and got jealous.

I do hold my breath though on some things. It was a struggle trying to find a PDF writer to save scope captures (think out of five or six only one worked), and then a struggle to find drivers for USB sticks. Obviously I have backups, but feel if in the future I lose them (then again, that means I lose the hard drive images too rendering my scope useless unless I find the software again), finding Win98 stuff will be much harder than XP stuff.

In any case, I think your points are valid and maybe I'll just focus on using the FTP files. If that's too time consuming or doesn't work, then I'll just make a shrunken image of the exiting working drive (shrunken because I'm wasting a 120GB and rather put a smaller one).

So the scope loads windows, loads the scope software, and then just commits them to memory without every needing to use any further software? Does this mean hypothetically the hard drive can be removed once the scope fully loads (not going to try it, just asking if it literally commits everything to memory).

The only files I found that changed on the hard drive were the cal and self test (I ran both tests, did a full search, and found only two text files changed date, indicating these are the files that tell the scope the calibration and self test stuff). Now that I know about committing things to memory, then it probably just writes these text files upon running the tests.

Do scope settings get saved to memory or the hard drive? When I reload the scope, seems all my settings remain from the previous time.

the M version is military. The only difference is that they came out of Singapore and not malaysia. USmilitary will not buy from malaysia , so they shipped the parts over the border, finished assembly in singapore and all is well for the paperwork.

Wow, you know a good amount about the history of these scopes, and very interesting.

[ARF]

I read the posts above about 54831M. So I don't understand what the problem is.
I have a 54831D that I bought in 2015 and it had an erased hard drive. I ordered OS recovery discs from Agilent (it was free). They sent me 2 CDs for recovery and for updating software based on Windows 98. It turned out that they do not distribute Windows XP on CDs due to the fact that they could not negotiate with Microsoft (licensing problems). The first copies of 8583x released on the Win 98, then they were upgraded to Win XP. If the user wanted to update his oscilloscope on his own, then he had to buy an Agilent HDD with the Win XP software pre-installed.
Your oscilloscope is a 54831B, so the HDD image you want is the HDD image from the 5483x. I think that there are many people in the community who can share this image with you. After that, you can update the oscilloscope software to 5.71 and enable all possible options.
Right now (I'm in a different location) I have a 54830B with Win XP and a 10GB hard drive and Win XP fits nicely in there (This is a full factory oscilloscope, no modifications). I advise you to buy an SSD and install a new OS on the SSD.

[bostonman]

I ordered OS recovery discs from Agilent (it was free). They sent me 2 CDs for recovery and for updating software based on Windows 98.

Really? I've searched and never found anything. Users have sent images and zips of the entire FTP site which I believe is no longer online. My previous posts have stated that, although I've obtained images from others (which I greatly appreciate) and the zip of the FTP site, I was trying to install a raw version (which I should be able to do from the FTP site someone posted).

It turned out that they do not distribute Windows XP on CDs due to the fact that they could not negotiate with Microsoft (licensing problems).

Yes, this is what I read too.

After that, you can update the oscilloscope software to 5.71

Hmmm I am not seeing 5.71 in any of the stuff I've saved. Does it work on Win98 and what extra options does it provide?

As for XP, I think I'll take the road previously suggested and just not worry about it unless I can do it easy enough. Just to clarify though, I did read that an XP image drive can be purchased, but, which steps are to be taken to install XP and the scope software? Is it just a matter of installing XP from a CD, and then one of the Agilent versions?

[Tony_G]

Just a thought - If you have an image of the existing drive then you could just try using the recovery images in my OneDrive to install from scratch - If it turns out to suck then you can just go back to the original image that you have.

My unit is a 54845A so I've never tried the XP recovery stuff but, as I said previously, what is in my OneDrive is everything that HPAK had on their FTP site at the time. Quick edit, it seems that the XP stuff for your scope is in "...\54845A\54845A\548xx\Upg_Rec\5483x".

FYI I did do a recovery for my machine and everything worked as documented but I have no idea how the 54831 would turn out.

Sorry, I can't provide more insight.

TonyG

[bostonman]

Just a thought - If you have an image of the existing drive then you could just try using the recovery images in my OneDrive to install from scratch - If it turns out to suck then you can just go back to the original image that you have.

That's basically what I plan to do. Currently I have a 120GB and initially wanted to reduce the size (through Linux or a Windows program I have that will copy only used stuff to reduce the size) so I can fit it on a smaller hard drive. If I use my duplicator, it needs at least a 120GB destination drive, and, if the original is 119.9GB and the destination is less (by any small amount), then it will fail. This means I need to buy a 320GB (or find a drive that's 120GB and hope my original is 119.9GB which is next to impossible), and, if in the future I want to back up that drive, then I need a bigger one, etc...

I'd rather install from your FTP stuff (i.e. Onedrive) onto the 32GB drive I bought, see it installs cleanly, install the USB drivers, install the PDF creator, and be done knowing I have a full copy of your Onedrive for future needs. If I can upgrade to XP just as easy, it makes sense to do this, but, if there is a version called 5.71 with more options, then it would be cool to get this.

The previous advice about why bother upgrading is valid. As I mentioned, the only advantage I see is that XP seems slightly more accepted as an OS with more options where new hardware has a better chance at working than Win98. So far though, Win98 works with the PDF creator I'm using, the USB drivers someone provided, and my wireless keyboard/mouse, so I am quite happy..... just rather a raw install onto a smaller drive.

[ARF]

What difficulties do you have... Everything is simple and reliable there.

You need to install XP, the only way you can unlock the options. There is an CD drive on the back of your oscilloscope. If you are afraid to disassemble the oscilloscope to extract the HDD, then you can do it without disassembly, but I strongly advise you to buy an SSD, and just keep the original HDD.

I can give you an image that I received from a person on the Internet in 2015 and upgraded my 54831D from 98 to XP.

You need to take 4 steps:
1. Burn any MS-DOS with support for CD drivers to a CD (Hiren's BootCD), a 3.5 floppy disk is also possible.
2. Burn the CD with the 5483x HDD image and deploy the image to the internal drive.
3. Burn the image with the usual Windows XP, boot from it and make and execute the "mbrfix" command.
4. Perform a self-check and calibration.
5. Optionally update the software to 5.71 and enable all options.

I have all this and I will share the files with you.

If you wait a bit... I ordered an SSD for my 54830B. I am planning to make an image with my internal HDD and clone to SSD. So I will go through these steps now and be able to give you a new image of the 5483x FACTORY XP HDD and describe exactly the steps on how to proceed, as I will be doing in about 2 weeks.

[bostonman]

I appreciate your offer and maybe I'll take you up on it, but I have received similar images from others (again, which is why my scope is actually working now).

My experience with installing software (much like others) is to install the OS first, and then install the software (Agilent in this case). Per your instructions, I'm installing the software first, and then installing XP from the CD, correct?

Keep in mind, my "original" HDD isn't original. This unit had channels 2 and 3 as a 50ohm failure. Shortly after buying it (fully knowing the two channels were bad) the SSD hard drive got corrupt. I'm uncertain if the hard drive was an image of the original, but the owner sent his saved image to me, however, it didn't boot the Agilent software (Windows booted fine, but it never initialized into the scope software).

This lead me down the path of trying to find an image online. Someone sent a (approx.) 22GB full image, another sent a smaller image, etc... All of which I was extremely grateful for. Eventually I found an image that worked, but all I had was a 120GB spare drive and said screw it, let me use this.

Now I have a few images from various people (with at least one known good one), a 120GB drive that works fine in my scope, but only occupies a fraction of the drive, etc...  As mentioned, I'd like to keep back up SSD's should this one become corrupt. In doing so, I'd like to install a raw Agilent version rather than stealing an image from someone else (even though they work fine).

On a side note, per your question on whether I'm comfortable disassembling this scope. I actually fixed channels 2 and 3. I traced the circuits by hand, discovered a previous owner changed a few components, the Agilent hybrid chips were bad, etc... I bought used hybrid chips from China (possibly fake?), researched which part types were replaced (all thanks to the help of people on here) because one was a three legged component that I didn't have a clue what it was, etc... Also had to replace a broken ZIF connector, replaced the power supply fan, etc...

I replaced the components, questionable components, hybrid chips, calibrated, self test, etc... and the unit works like a charm now. Needless to say, I'm quite comfortable with getting inside this unit.

As for why I'm not leaving well enough alone. Again, it's mainly due to wanting backup SSD's and finding that I need to reduce the existing 120GB size rather than waste money on 320GB drives, and, while I'm at it, maybe I can upgrade to XP (or just have a raw image to install).

[ARF]

1. You will install the Windows XP system right along with the Agilent software and along with the recovery partition. As far as I know, Agilent did not release their software for these oscilloscopes in the form of an installer application, you can only install an update.
2. You may need a CD disk with the original XP to configure the XP's bootloader.

The original HDD image cannot be 120GB. The original hard drives were 10-20GB, where the usable data was 2-3GB.

As for the SSD, I bought on Ebay Micron p300 50GB disks based on SLC memory. This is due to the fact that old Windows cannot work correctly with SSD disks and do not execute TRIM commands and so on. It would be optimal to find an old disk (or special) that itself performs all the cleaning functions and on reliable memory - SLC. But this is not very important and my opinion may be wrong. Any modern disk on the MLC and TLC will also work well and probably for a very long time.

[coromonadalix]

You have some slipstreamed xp versions with added sata drivers  on archive.org


You have the famous RyanVm unofficial sp4 xp pack
https://ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10321#p133918

It was well done at the time,  never had problems with it ....


And you have    https://driverpack.io/en   
They had a complete installable pack  with tons of sata drivers in them, BUT   if i recall they where installing some driverpack.io software along them  ... wich was nagging and you could remove it in the add remove panel


For the drive you have what they call  DISK ON MODLE aka (DOM) too   Sata or Ide models, they plug directly on the ide or sata port and need an 5 vols supply
These are used in industrial environements ...

BUT like written on a previous post  you have to choose a drive who will not bark  with the trim command  ... The suggested model seems fine with a very good price.

The trim is seen as an automatic defragmentation, and sometimes windows defrag would not operate / cope well with this ... and created some abusive wear and tear .. in the first trim implementations

Now some drives will automaticaly trim themselves ...

Im not pushing or make publicity of the softwares  READ THIS:

https://www.reneelab.com/windows-xp-ssd.html

Mostly this line

To install Windows XP on a SSD, you need AHCI mode enabled in BIOS/UEFI. Windows XP doesn’t support the SSD TRIM command. The system will run slowly and the SSD will be worn greatly if Windows XP is installed on the SSD. The common tool, such as SSD Trim, is incapable of sending TRIM command.

[ARF]

Don't mix everything together. No SATA drivers are needed, AHCI is also not needed. The SATA drive must be connected via the SATA to IDE adapter. Yes, TRIM will not work and it is better to take an SSD on SLC and with internal garbage collection mechanisms.

Wait a bit, I'll get the disks and the adapter, will do it on my oscilloscope and will make an instruction for you.

[free_electron]

just order some old IDE laptop drives from fujitsu .12 to 30 GB ( dont cross the 32gb barrier. that gives trouble)

[bostonman]

You need to take 4 steps:
1. Burn any MS-DOS with support for CD drivers to a CD (Hiren's BootCD), a 3.5 floppy disk is also possible.
2. Burn the CD with the 5483x HDD image and deploy the image to the internal drive.
3. Burn the image with the usual Windows XP, boot from it and make and execute the "mbrfix" command.
4. Perform a self-check and calibration.
5. Optionally update the software to 5.71 and enable all options.

Step 1 make sense because I need the scope to have the ability to boot from the CD.

Step 2, the stuff I have contains two sub-directories under 548xx\Upg_Rec\5483x\. The two sub-directories are: 5483XRecovery2_1.iso and inf_83X_up23.iso.

Within inf_83X_up23.iso is an exe named: AG5483Ldr.exe which, from what I've seen, is the actual scope software.

I assume this is the iso that needs to be deployed, but what exactly am I doing? Am I clicking on AG5483Ldr.exe to install the software?

Step 3 I'm a bit confused by. Am I booting the scope with the XP CD installed, am I booting an XP image file that's within this Agilent FTP zip I downloaded, etc...?

Step 5, where do I get the 5.71 image as I don't see it anywhere on this zip? Is this what you suggested, ordering it directly from Agilent?

[ARF]

Of course you don't have any of that, I didn't give you links.
Wait a bit, I'll get the SSD, I'll do it at my place and I'll make a more convenient instruction for you.

[bostonman]

Oh okay.... Thought I already had everything needed except 5.71. I can wait, but is it possible to get raw stuff rather than a iso of an existing hard drive that's been setup in another scope?

[bostonman]

Of course you don't have any of that, I didn't give you links.
Wait a bit, I'll get the SSD, I'll do it at my place and I'll make a more convenient instruction for you.

May I ask how you're coming along with this? I need my scope for work and trying to avoid reassembling to disassemble again.

[ARF]

I'm not in the US, so the delivery is not so fast. SSDs will be delivered only after the 20th.

If you're in a hurry, I sent you a private message:

- the HDD image that is suitable for 5483xB/D (i got this image in 2015)
- updating the sw to 5.71.
- patch for 5.71.

You need to deploy the image to HDD, update the sw, install the patch.
As far as I remember, for the correct boot I needed a CD disk with Windows XP, where I performed the bootloader recovery via the "fixmbr" command.
This was all in 2015(so I might forget some details), but you can try it right now.

May I clarify, is there a Motorola VP22 motherboard inside your oscilloscope?

[bostonman]

Yes, VP22 revision A4

I'll check the private message in a minute, but wanted to clarify. I'm not exactly in a rush, but predict I'll need it sometime late this week.

I can use the image you're sending, but this would mean I'd still have to assemble it to disassemble it again; whereas I'd like to just do it once and be done if possible.

[ARF]

The HDD image is 1.5GB, is means that you can't just write it to 1 CD disk.
You will need an external USB drive/flash drive and a bootable CD disk that will include the drivers for the USB media. I think in 2015 I used "Hiren's BootCD" for this.
Or you can split the image into 3 CDs. Inside the oscilloscope is the most ordinary PC, so there are many options.

[bostonman]

I'm not in the US, so the delivery is not so fast. SSDs will be delivered only after the 20th.

If you're in a hurry, I sent you a private message:

I'm not exactly in a rush, but rather avoid doing this multiple times. Regardless if I go with the image you posted (much appreciated) or I stick the working drive back in, I'll end up doing it a second time when you get the new image.

For now I'll hold off unless I absolutely need the scope.

As for the drive you're waiting for, you ordered this directly from Agilent, so it's a raw (i.e. virgin) image? If so, can you image it before you install it in the scope?

Also, if it's this easy to order one, should I just order my own?

[bostonman]

Have you received the hard drive and/or made any progress?

[bostonman]

I wanted to reach out again to find out how things are going.

[ARF]

@bostonman

I sent a PM to you.

1. Burn a CD with Paragon Hard Disk Manager 12.
2. Unzip the archive to a USB flash drive.
3. Boot from the CD. In Acronis, specify the folder with the archive on the USB flash drive and deploy it to your HDD. The Acronis window does not fit well into the 640x480 screen, but you can shrink the window by the top edge with the mouse.
NOTE: You can create an image of your HDD on the USB flash drive before step 3. It might come in handy.
4. After the rebooting, the system will boot, the drivers will be installed, and after the second rebooting, the oscilloscope will work as usual. You will need to do the auto-calibration.

5. Optional. The HDD has a factory recovery partition. You can do a "super clean install". After turning on the oscilloscope, press and hold the "control" key. You will be enter to the bootloader, select the recovery partition and click the restore button. So the system partition will be overwritten with a clean factory image.
6. Optional 2. Install Agilent software update and options. You already have everything for this.

If you want, you can send me your phone in a private message, we can update your oscilloscope in real time, I will help you.

I have tested this image with SSD and modern HDD.

[bostonman]

Just an FYI, I'll be installing this on a brand new 32GB hard drive (i.e. virgin). The other hard drive has already been imaged.

Crazy question, but should I consider making a second partition to have the option of booting either OS; one for XP and one for Win98?

The steps you provided seem very straight forward and much easier than the Win98 install (although I haven't done an install from scratch, but the write up looks more involved).

As for using Paragon Hard Disk Manager, it's not free. Do you recommend anything else?

[ARF]

Did you look at my link?

If you just installed a 32GB IDE SSD, then there are problems. In 2023, a 32GB SSD is either a very expensive SSD for industrial usage, or Chinese garbage. Second problem. The oscilloscope uses the 40pin(44pin for 2.5") IDE cable to the hard drive. The transfer speed is limited to 33MB/s (ATA 33). The real read and write speed will be less than 30MB/s. You can get around this problem by using a SATA adapter (and SATA SSD) or an adapter to a classic big (for 3.5" devices) IDE cable. Only in this case, the UDMA 100 mode will be turned on and the read/write speed will be 70-80MB/s

Yes, you can manually write a Win 98 partition to an empty space on the disk and add this partition to the bootloader, which you can enter by pressing the control button. However, this doesn't make any sense. The XP version of the software is better in everything and only complements the old one.

[bostonman]

Did you look at my link?

Yes, it contained just a zip file that was (I assume) the XP image (per the file name). I didn't see anything else, did I miss something related to the Paragon Hard Disk Manager? I tried searching for it and their webpage showed the need to purchase it.

Sorry for the confusion on the SSD. Thought I mentioned in a previous post that I have an adapter. The scope already has an SSD (120GB) with the adapter. So it goes from the 40-pin IDE in the scope to the adapter, and then the SSD. It's been working great so far, but, as for transfer speed, I'm uncertain if it's transferring at the full potential. For the most part, unless the scope needs to access the HD to take measurements, whether it boots slower isn't really important to me.

From my understanding, once the scope software is booted, the hard drive is no longer accessed. Am I messing up anything by using the adapter and SSD or am I just sacrificing boot up time?

In 2023, a 32GB SSD is either a very expensive SSD for industrial usage, or Chinese garbage.

This isn't good. I bought two of these (Transcend SSD3705) because I thought using anything large was a waste of a hard drive since I noticed the entire hard drive uses something like 1GB (let's call it 2GB for purposes of discussion). I couldn't find any hard drives that were smaller than 120GB or so, and it didn't seem worth spending the money; also think Win98 doesn't see 120GB or larger.

Apparently I shouldn't waste my time with these hard drives then? I don't remember what I paid, but they weren't expensive. I actually planned to make a nice raw installation, completely clean, get the scope running (calibration, install a PDF software to print to a PDF file, and any necessary drivers), and then make images of that drive should I experience a HD failure in the future; I even planned to buy two more 32GB so I'd have the main one in the scope and three backups.