Brymen BM789

[Doctorandus_P]

Polycarbonate is also much more brittle then a wet noodle.

And both Diamond and CBN are much more brittle then Polycarbonate.

(And no, that CBN is not Cannabinol, but that other stuff, with Boron in it.)

[AVGresponding]

Polycarbonate is much more brittle than polyethylene, which is also highly resistant to acids and solvents.

LOL!

Calling polycarbonate brittle is like calling copper highly resistive.

Things made with PE:
sandwich bags
freezer bags
vapor barrier
food containers
Fluke meters


Things made with PC:
Bullet proof face shields
motocross goggle lenses
motorcycle helmets
explosion proof cabinets
Brymen meters

Polycarbonate is also much more brittle then a wet noodle.

And both Diamond and CBN are much more brittle then Polycarbonate.

(And no, that CBN is not Cannabinol, but that other stuff, with Boron in it.)

I note you haven't quibbled about the chemical resistance, and missed off your list of PE uses "bottles for hydrofluoric acid", which I'll grant is a fringe case, so perhaps "fuel can" is more mainstream.

Take a Fluke 87 V and  Brymen 869S, chill them down to oh, -10 Celcius or so, then drop them onto concrete from 3m.

I like my 869S, it's in rotation with my Fluke 289 as a mobile bench meter, but at work I use my 87V. The 869 would be too big, and unnecessarily complex. I worry about random processor death with my 869, and supercap issues with my 289. The only thing I worry about with my 87V is theft. I can't say as I've ever worried about the physical robustness of any of them, save perhaps the screen of the 289, but then I'm not particularly accident prone.

[mwb1100]

Also, the split banana jacks are for a function to beep at you when the probe is in the Amp jack while the selector switch is in the volt range. I blew up one of my old (el cheapo) DMM's that did not have this feature, and it has saved me multiple fuses (each EUR10 or so) in the 30 years thereafter. This is an quite important feature for me, and I think the flukes don't have that.

The Fluke 87v has that feature (but not every Fluke model does - I'm pretty sure the same is true for Brymen)

[sonpul]

Brymen copied the AutoHold feature from Fluke and the BM78x are the only ones with it.

[Doctorandus_P]

I'm pretty sure the same is true for Brymen)

Brymen calls it "Beep-Jack (tm)", and I checked a bunch of their meters, and they all have it. From the cheapest EUR60 to the top models.
It's such a useful feature and cheap to implement, that it just seems silly to not include it.

I checked:

BM235, BM233, BM231
https://brymen.eu/wp-content/uploads/biall/102173/102173.KARTA_EN..2016-09-30.1.pdf

BM257, BM255, BM252, BM251
https://brymen.eu/wp-content/uploads/biall/102085/102085.KARTA_EN..2022-05-17.2.pdf

BM789, BM785
https://brymen.eu/wp-content/uploads/biall/102222/102222.KARTA_EN..2020-10-26.1.pdf

BM807, BM806, BM805
https://brymen.eu/wp-content/uploads/biall/102027/102027.KARTA_EN..2015-07-21.1.pdf

BM867s, BM869s
https://brymen.eu/wp-content/uploads/biall/102092/102092.INSTRUKCJA_EN..2014-11-04.1.pdf

BM878, BM877, BM876
https://brymen.eu/wp-content/uploads/biall/102133/102133.KARTA_EN..2015-07-09.1.pdf

BM905s, BM906s, BM907S
https://brymen.eu/wp-content/uploads/biall/102114/102114.INSTRUKCJA_EN..2014-11-04.1.pdf

I did not check pocket meters and clamp meters. They don't have it of course because they do not have an Amp input.

[EEVblog]

But overall, quality is quite comparable, and as Fluke is just not affordable for me, I'd buy the Brymen anytime over the Fluke.
Even if it was a birthday present, I'd rather have the Brymen then the Fluke, as I regard it as overpriced and I dislike the idea of rewarding companies for such a policy. Brymen has a much better Performance to price ratio, and that is what I can appreciate.

For the few people that haven't seen it:

[Martin72]

I'd rather have the Brymen then the Fluke, as I regard it as overpriced and I dislike the idea of rewarding companies for such a policy.

Well, it seems you never had a fluke for a long time to work with.
At home I got a BM869s, at work we have tons of fluke meters, mostly 87V, some 187/189 and two 289, 15 or more 117 and 179 models.
We still have a 87 from 1990, it was calibrated over 30yrs every year without any issues.
I let my brymen calibrate in the year  I bought it (2020) and it must be re-adjusted to reach it´s own specs...

[Fungus]

Also, the split banana jacks are for a function to beep at you when the probe is in the Amp jack while the selector switch is in the volt range. I blew up one of my old (el cheapo) DMM's that did not have this feature, and it has saved me multiple fuses (each EUR10 or so) in the 30 years thereafter. This is an quite important feature for me, and I think the flukes don't have that.

I wouldn't buy a "serious" meter without it.

The Fluke 87v has that feature (but not every Fluke model does - I'm pretty sure the same is true for Brymen)

All Brymens have it AFAIK.

(apart from their pocket meter)

[EEVblog]

Something is missing from the EEVBLOG lineup.

They won't let me sell the 869.

The 869s looks fine in red.   Where's the 121?

Here you go.
The 121GW was originally smaller, but I decided to move from AAA to AA batteries and they couldn't keep the same dimensions.

[NoisyBoy]

If you are using the meter handheld all day, don't forget the weight.  Beyond just length and width, also consider the height.  The following weight are measured with Envelop AAA and Lithium 9V batteries

Fluke 179: 405g, 43mm
Bremen 756: 419g, 51mm
Fluke 87v: 508g, 52mm
Bremen 869s: 627g, 64.5mm

I personally find 869s to be the only model that is too thick, too big, and too heavy for handheld job where you have to hold it for an extended period of time, as it is 55% heavier than the 179.  The Fluke 179 is the sweet spot for handheld in my book due to its smaller size and weight, with the 756 being a close second if you need more features.

[BillyO]

I note you haven't quibbled about the chemical resistance, and missed off your list of PE uses "bottles for hydrofluoric acid", which I'll grant is a fringe case, so perhaps "fuel can" is more mainstream.

Take a Fluke 87 V and  Brymen 869S, chill them down to oh, -10 Celcius or so, then drop them onto concrete from 3m.

Lots of fringe cases here, but while gasoline might give PC a slightly hard time, it's really not where a typical Brymen get's used.  As for -10C, well they make snowmobile helmets, goggles and face shields from PC too.

HDPE is a good material for sure.  I'm just not convinced it's as tough as or any better than PC.  HDPE is less expensive than PC though so I guess that's why Fluke can make meters that are so budget friendly.   

[EEVblog]

If you are using the meter handheld all day, don't forget the weight.  Beyond just length and width, also consider the height.  The following weight are measured with Envelop AAA and Lithium 9V batteries

Fluke 179: 405g, 43mm
Bremen 756: 419g, 51mm
Fluke 87v: 508g, 52mm
Bremen 869s: 627g, 64.5mm

I personally find 869s to be the only model that is too thick, too big, and too heavy for handheld job where you have to hold it for an extended period of time, as it is 55% heavier than the 179.  The Fluke 179 is the sweet spot for handheld in my book due to its smaller size and weight, with the 756 being a close second if you need more features.

I don't know why anyone would use an 87V or 869 handheld or in the field, they are basically high feature high precision bench meters.
My choice for handheld field use would be the likes of the BM235 or Fluke 117.
Although I can appreciate the likes of the ruggedised Fluke 27-II for extreme field use.

[multiJ]

I'd rather have the Brymen then the Fluke, as I regard it as overpriced and I dislike the idea of rewarding companies for such a policy.

Well, it seems you never had a fluke for a long time to work with.
At home I got a BM869s, at work we have tons of fluke meters, mostly 87V, some 187/189 and two 289, 15 or more 117 and 179 models.
We still have a 87 from 1990, it was calibrated over 30yrs every year without any issues.
I let my brymen calibrate in the year  I bought it (2020) and it must be re-adjusted to reach it´s own specs...

Are you saying that from your professional experience Brymens don't maintain calibration for long(er) periods of time? Where did you send it to be calibrated (if not in-house?). Thanks 

[J-R]

Some users, myself included, have reported a bit of drift with the BM869 that may be an issue depending on your requirements: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/bymen-bm869-measurement-of-dcv-linearity/

Fortunately the calibration/adjustment procedure for the BM869 is well known and easy to perform: https://www.jackenhack.com/calibrating-brymen-bm-series-multimeter/

If you calibrate/adjust the 500,000 count modes, you won't be disappointed.

[AVGresponding]

I don't know why anyone would use an 87V or 869 handheld or in the field, they are basically high feature high precision bench meters.
My choice for handheld field use would be the likes of the BM235 or Fluke 117.
Although I can appreciate the likes of the ruggedised Fluke 27-II for extreme field use.

Because I might be doing anything from poking around in a 3ph panel board to measuring charge current in a small fire alarm system.
I'd be happy to use the 869S but for its size.

[EEVblog]

Because I might be doing anything from poking around in a 3ph panel board to measuring charge current in a small fire alarm system.
I'd be happy to use the 869S but for its size.

There is the Kane 555:
http://cn.kanetest.co.kr/shop.php?goPage=GoodDetail&g_code=20220330171318692&cat_no=2
Basically a 121GW platform but with triple display, true energy measurement and motor stuff. But they dropped the 15V zener mode.

Or maybe:
https://catalog.chauvin-arnoux.com/fr_en/mtx-3291.html
Smaller in all dimentions, weighs less at 570g

Or one of the Gossens maybe, but IIRC they won't be any smaller.

[joeqsmith]

There is the Kane 555:
... But they dropped the 15V zener mode.

From what I remember, the zener mode made it difficult to protect the meter from transients.   Maybe the 555 is more robust. 

[joeqsmith]

Some users, myself included, have reported a bit of drift with the BM869 that may be an issue depending on your requirements: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/bymen-bm869-measurement-of-dcv-linearity/

Fortunately the calibration/adjustment procedure for the BM869 is well known and easy to perform: https://www.jackenhack.com/calibrating-brymen-bm-series-multimeter/

If you calibrate/adjust the 500,000 count modes, you won't be disappointed.

I bought my first BM869s seven years ago.   Keeping in mind, I damaged the meter during my testing and then personally repaired it.  It has never been aligned and spends most of the time on my bench.  I do not have any way to check the meter for calibration but just ran a quick spot check at 10V, 1V, 1mV, 40 ohms and 1.9M.    The 40 ohm is an S102K 0.005% +/-1PPM.    The 1.9M is a Caddock TK, which measured 1.900005 last time I checked it.   For voltage, I am using my vintage Fluke 731B standard.   

I have the second one if you would like me to check it.  Brymen had provided that meter to run my 50,000 life cycle test on. I also dropped it.  Damaged the front end during transient testing.  During repairs, I used some different parts to allow it to survive to even higher levels (so modified).   It also has never been aligned. 

[BeBuLamar]

My choice for handheld field use would be the likes of the BM235 or Fluke 117.
Although I can appreciate the likes of the ruggedised Fluke 27-II for extreme field use.

I don't know the 87V is the meter I use in the field. It's good but I don't feel it's a high precision meter.

[EEVblog]

I don't know the 87V is the meter I use in the field. It's good but I don't feel it's a high precision meter.

Well, it was when it was first introduced 35 years ago 

[BeBuLamar]

I don't know the 87V is the meter I use in the field. It's good but I don't feel it's a high precision meter.

Well, it was when it was first introduced 35 years ago 

Although it's capable of 20,000 count meter it's basically a 6,000 meter.

[joeqsmith]

I still use my cheapo Mastech meter for working on the bikes.  It's stored in a trailer outside where it freezes in the winter and cooks in the summer.   The only features I use are resistance, DCV and temperature.  +/-5% would be fine.   

I have had a need for a scope from time to time.  Once I had a wheel speed sensor problem.  I had a power inverter in the  car running my analog scope in the seat with a cable running out the back window.      A few years back I bought a couple of Fluke 89 scope meters which fill any of my portable scope needs.    If they were not so long in the tooth, I would just use these for all of my garage work as their DMM functions cover the basics. 

Normally I am not trying to hold the meter while I work.   I normally need my hands for other things (hold probes, making mechanical adjustments...).    The larger screens work out well.   The Mastech's LCD will wash out (turn black) in the sun so it has that going for it.  Cheap meter.

Before getting the BM869s, I used my bench meters for everything in the lab.   Now I use the handheld the majority of the time.   The closest handheld I have seen to my bench meter was that Gossen Ultra.   Still, at $900 , it's no match for my vintage HP and would need work before it could be used (lack of shielding is a ball buster,  good job germany).

[AVGresponding]

Because I might be doing anything from poking around in a 3ph panel board to measuring charge current in a small fire alarm system.
I'd be happy to use the 869S but for its size.

There is the Kane 555:
http://cn.kanetest.co.kr/shop.php?goPage=GoodDetail&g_code=20220330171318692&cat_no=2
Basically a 121GW platform but with triple display, true energy measurement and motor stuff. But they dropped the 15V zener mode.

Or maybe:
https://catalog.chauvin-arnoux.com/fr_en/mtx-3291.html
Smaller in all dimentions, weighs less at 570g

Or one of the Gossens maybe, but IIRC they won't be any smaller.

I just remembered the lack of a useful touch-hold on the 869S. This is quite important when you need to see where you're putting your hands inside a live cabinet, and can't spare the attention for the meter screen. The 78x meters have it I understand, but until my 87V, 27A/N, Metrix MX 57Ex, and Tek 912 are all dead, I'm not really in the market for a new work meter...
 

I note you haven't quibbled about the chemical resistance, and missed off your list of PE uses "bottles for hydrofluoric acid", which I'll grant is a fringe case, so perhaps "fuel can" is more mainstream.

Take a Fluke 87 V and  Brymen 869S, chill them down to oh, -10 Celcius or so, then drop them onto concrete from 3m.

Lots of fringe cases here, but while gasoline might give PC a slightly hard time, it's really not where a typical Brymen get's used.  As for -10C, well they make snowmobile helmets, goggles and face shields from PC too.

HDPE is a good material for sure.  I'm just not convinced it's as tough as or any better than PC.  HDPE is less expensive than PC though so I guess that's why Fluke can make meters that are so budget friendly.   

I'd disagree about solvents in particular being a fringe case; acids yes.

It would be interesting to do some properly calibrated drop tests. My guess is that PE gives a better damped impact than PC, so would be friendlier to the internals... Time for Dave to bring his occasionally mooted physical torture test chamber into reality?

[J-R]

For checking DCV accuracy on the BM869 it would be best to test at 5V and using 500,000 count mode.

[Martin72]

Hi,

Are you saying that from your professional experience Brymens don't maintain calibration for long(er) periods of time?

Maybe my Brymen was a one-off, I was just surprised that a brand new factory calibrated multimeter had to be readjusted in a few areas during external calibration to get within its own specifications.
I don't know that at all from the Fluke models at work.
I've been employed there in the testfield since 2003 and am now the manager and jointly responsible for the measuring equipment used.
We have a database for this measuring equipment, where all calibrations since procurement are stored and of course also failures.
No Fluke has ever failed in these years.
Even an ancient Fluke 8060A (100khz TRMS !!!) has survived every calibration until its "natural" retirement.
This is a quality that Brymen must first prove over the decades.
That is why I personally do not let anything come on Fluke meters, it is simply professional quality that has its price and they are simply the industry standard.
Still, I like my BM869s, it has many good approaches and is hard to beat for the money.
And you can buy almost 3 BM869s for the nominal price of an 87V, so it wasn't hard for me to decide for personal use.

Where did you send it to be calibrated (if not in-house?). Thanks 

Welectron offers a calibration service, not only for multimeters (you can choose) and either according to ISO or even DakkS.
They don't do it themselves, they then send it on to the lab.

https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-Multimeter-BM780-BM850s-BM860s-ISO-Calibration

I think this service is good, as a private person you usually can't get it so easily.