Elenco s-1325 slanted trace

[Andy Watson]

Can you see any evidence that the yellow coil - half-way along the tube - has been jarred out of its correct position? You could try disconnecting the coil  - follow the white and red wires.

[miguelvp]

BTW here is some info for the CRT:
http://tubedata.milbert.com/sheets/186/d/D14363GY123.pdf

[miguelvp]

Can you see any evidence that the yellow coil - half-way along the tube - has been jarred out of its correct position? You could try disconnecting the coil  - follow the white and red wires.

That would be the trace rotation coil affixed with resin, it would affect the whole signal.

[jmctech]

Coil looks good, it has 4 epoxy spots that are solid

[miguelvp]

Note 2 of the CRT pdf linked above

The deflection plates must be operated symmetrically. Asymmetric drive introduces trace distortion.
It is recommended that the tube is operated with equal mean x- and y-potentials in order to
minimize tube adjustments. In this event g5 may be connected to g2, g4 and all made equal to mean
y-potential for optimum spot (see also notes 3 and 4).
 A difference between mean x- and y-potentials up to 75 V is permissible. However, this may
influence the specified deflection coefficients and separate voltages on g4 and g5 will be required.

Edit, but careful we are talking about 2KV here.

Also the CRT has astigmatic correction, I wonder if that has a front know control and if it will affect the signal's orthogonality as mentioned in note 9 of the above doc.

The tube features internal magnetic correction for orthogonality between x- and y-traces, spot
shaping (astigmatism) and eccentricity calibration.

[jmctech]

I tested all power supply leads

Manual shows 140 meter showed 150

Manual showed 12 meter at 12.6

Manual showed 16 for two they were at 16.89 and 16.04

Manual showed 31 and 6.3 on the isolation for the crt was at 7.14 and 34.8

[jmctech]

This is what displays when in x - y

[miguelvp]

Also the CRT has astigmatic correction, I wonder if that has a front know control and if it will affect the signal's orthogonality as mentioned in note 9 of the above doc.

The tube features internal magnetic correction for orthogonality between x- and y-traces, spot
shaping (astigmatism) and eccentricity calibration.

More about note 9

Angle between x and y traces 90 ± 0.5° (note 9)

[tautech]

Next test should be the ramp generator for the sweep.
You will want to see a clean linear sawtooth waveform.
You will need another scope for that test.

[rob77]

just an idea Guys....

if the there is a common supply for X and Y deflection... can't it simply be that the power rail is weak and causing this ? or there is some other interference between X&Y amplifiers ? because for example: once Y starts to deflect the beam and it puls down the voltage for the X deflection... then it would produce similar effect (X goes backwards)...  and similarly for the the falling edge - Y decreases deflection of the beam and the voltage for X raising back to "normal" (X goes forward faster than should).

[miguelvp]

A picture of the controller board from the back (the board tilted about 13 to 19 degrees) might help to see how the g2,g4 and g5 are connected.

[miguelvp]

Since you mentioned that you have the service manual, can you find where the astigm and geom pots are if anywhere?

and post pictures of the schematic that connects to the CRT?

for example something like this:


Edit: Again a reminder to be careful, because there are very high voltages there. Maybe if you have a friend that repairs TVs they might be helpful.
I would only try to adjust them with the power off myself and only with a plastic tool and my free hand in my pocket, high voltages scare me.

I have no idea on your level of confidence dealing with 2,000 Volts.

[jmctech]

[jmctech]

Here is the other board you asked about

[miguelvp]

Can you check in the manual if VR822 is the astigmatism adjustment? and were is it located in your board?

I believe is the one on the upper left of this image you posted earlier next to that 3 pin connector that I'm guessing it connects to the CRT board but I can't see it from the picture you posted.

Edit: linking to your image didn't work so here is the section I'm talking about


Is the connector labeled P802 and is that pot labeled VR822?
And does the manual refer to it as the Astigmatism adjustment?

It might need to be adjusted or the cap C808 is doing something funny. (Edit: if that is a cap at all, looks blurry to me)


Edit: This is an educated guess, someone please chime in if you think this will fix the orthogonality between x and y

Edit again: The red cable on that connector should trace all the way to pin 13 of the CRT connector.

[AlfBaz]

This is what displays when in x - y

In that picture you have a signal to both channels in XY mode?

I was curious to see what the vertical trace looked like.

Checking the horizontal is easy, ground the input and you should have no vertical deflection or rotation and can be seen by looking at the line and comparing it to the graticule.

To do the same for the vertical you need to apply a varying voltage on the vertical but eliminate the internal horizontal sweep

So in XY mode , if you put the signal to only one channel at a time, on one you should get a nice horizontal line and the other a nice vertical line, or in this case a line slanted back, thereby concluding that it is actually the deflection plates/circuit.

[AlfBaz]

you are just bragging about your embossing talent 

LOL, I've been waiting for an excuse to post one for ages 

[tautech]

I tested all power supply leads

Manual shows 140 meter showed 150

Manual showed 12 meter at 12.6

Manual showed 16 for two they were at 16.89 and 16.04

Manual showed 31 and 6.3 on the isolation for the crt was at 7.14 and 34.8

Your measurements show ALL voltages above spec.
2 questions:
Is your meter accurate?
Is the scope mains input selector set for the correct mains voltage in your location?

[jmctech]

Yes I check that it is set for 120

[tautech]

Yes I check that it is set for 120

I strongly suggest you change the mains input voltage selector to a lower voltage.
All components in the scope will be subjected to higher than design voltages with the existing input selection.

[jmctech]

The only options I have is 120 and 240

[jmctech]

This is what the vertical looks like

[jmctech]

Can you check in the manual if VR822 is the astigmatism adjustment? and were is it located in your board?

I believe is the one on the upper left of this image you posted earlier next to that 3 pin connector that I'm guessing it connects to the CRT board but I can't see it from the picture you posted.

Edit: linking to your image didn't work so here is the section I'm talking about


Is the connector labeled P802 and is that pot labeled VR822?
And does the manual refer to it as the Astigmatism adjustment?

It might need to be adjusted or the cap C808 is doing something funny. (Edit: if that is a cap at all, looks blurry to me)


Edit: This is an educated guess, someone please chime in if you think this will fix the orthogonality between x and y

Edit again: The red cable on that connector should trace all the way to pin 13 of the CRT connector.

VR 822 is the astigmatism adjustment.
Manipulating it makes no difference in the slant though.

[miguelvp]

That's odd since it's connected to g2, g4 and g5 it should change both the geometry and the astigmatism.

At least it should make the traces wider on the bottom or narrower depending on the direction. Maybe there is something with that part of the circuit. Still not sure what C808 is, Anyone knows if the NPN transistor Q805 could cause this problem? or the capacitors C809 and whatever C808 is? (looks like a blob to me)

BTW here are the notes of the CRT document

NOTES
 
1. Because the frit seal is visible through the faceplate, and is not necessarily aligned with the internal
graticule, application of an external passe-partout with an open area of max. 102 mm x 82 mm is
recommended. The internal graticule is aligned with the faceplate by using the faceplate reference
points (see Fig.4).
2. The deflection plates must be operated symmetrically. Asymmetric drive introduces trace distortion.
It is recommended that the tube is operated with equal mean x- and y-potentials in order to
minimize tube adjustments. In this event g5 may be connected to g2, g4 and all made equal to mean
y-potential for optimum spot (see also notes 3 and 4).
 A difference between mean x- and y-potentials up to 75 V is permissible. However, this may
influence the specified deflection coefficients and separate voltages on g4 and g5 will be required.
3. The tube will meet the geometry specification (see note 8 ) if Vg5 is equal to mean x-potential. A
range of ± 30 V around mean x-potential may be applied for further correction.
4. Optimum spot is obtained with Vg2,g4 equal to mean y-potential (see note 2). Generally, a tolerance of
± 4 V has no visible effect. Vg2,g4 tends to be lower with Vg5 more positive. The circuit impedance
Rg2,g4 should be less than 10 kOhm.
5. An actual focus range of 30 V should be provided on the front panel. Vg3 decreases with increasing
grid drive (see also Fig.5).
6. Intensity control on the front panel should be limited to the maximum useful screen current (approx.
50 µA; see also Fig.5). It should be adjusted either by the grid drive voltage (up to 22 V) or for
maximum acceptable line width. The corresponding cathode current or Ig2,g4 (up to 500 µA) depends
on the cut-off voltage and therefore cannot be used for control settings.
7. The sensitivity at a deflection of less than 75% of the useful scan will not differ from the sensitivity at
a deflection of 25% of the useful scan by more than the indicated value.
8. A graticule consisting of concentric rectangles of 100 mm x 80 mm and 98 mm x 78 mm is aligned
with the internal graticule. With optimum trace rotation correction, the raster will fall between these
rectangles.
9. The tube features internal magnetic correction for orthogonality between x- and y-traces, spot
shaping (astigmatism) and eccentricity calibration.
10. The tube has a trace rotation coil fixed to the lower cone part. The coil has a maximum resistance of
260 Ohms at 80 °C. The maximum required voltage is approximately 11 V for tube tolerances (± 5°) and
earth magnetic field with reasonable shielding (± 2°).
11. Measured with the shrinking raster method in the centre of the screen under typical operating
conditions, adjusted for optimum spot size at beam current Il = 10 µA.
 The beam current Il can be measured on g5 and is approx. equal to Ig5(l).

and the link again to said document:
http://tubedata.milbert.com/sheets/186/d/D14363GY123.pdf

[jmctech]

I belive what I am going to have to do is buy a waveform generator and calibrate it from the service manual to see if that helps. Looking through the manual it shows that there is VR for the power supply which sets all voltages that I measured earlier. It does also talk about a vertical and horizontal amp adjustment. Could either of those have anything to do with it? I want to thank everyone for their input so far also.