Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510

[Hydron]

I wonder where this stock of cheap meters is coming from - maybe an edict from the govt to replace western gear with local? Or a big company clearing out a bunch of meters that are either not needed or have hit a 5yr replacement date or something? Be nice to know if this is the new normal or whether they're going to dry up shortly (the latter would increase the temptation mind!).

[Martin72]

At first, I was afraid that it was some kind of “gray area” that was being sold off cheaply.
But after successfully tracking my meter at Tektronix, I assume that it's a kind of liquidation/new purchase of measuring equipment, whether it's a measuring laboratory or a company's testing department.
I paid less than €2,000 for it. Here in Germany, you would pay more than three times that amount for a new one today, or at least 2.5 times as much.
So I'm just happy to have an excellent measuring device at a good price.

[KungFuJosh]

Under $1700 including, shipping, taxes, etc. is a decent deal. Around $1800ish all-in is pretty commonly available to any reasonable seller on eBay.

[exe]

Omg, there is seems to be a competition between sellers. This came unsolicited. I didn't know that other sellers can see my transactions and freely send me offers  The price is higher than what I paid  . My seller removed the listing quickly after purchase. Wars of bots?

[Scottjd]

I don’t know if it’s bots or what. But I do know I had a few different ones in my carts before I made my decision and never received an offer. Since I made the purchase I have received 4 different offers.
I wonder if eBay gives you a grace period to cancel and this is allowing others to try to poach sales 😂
FYI all 4 offers were higher, and from sellers that had some of the highest prices in that bracket.

Update:
Make that 5 offers, I just got the same one you received. I was turning them down, but I am just ignoring them at this point.

[Hydron]

I think it sometimes sends automatic offers if you've even just viewed stuff that has auto-offer configured by the seller. Can be pretty annoying tbh.

[KungFuJosh]

Hydron is correct. If you're a seller on eBay with a product people have shown interest in, you can have eBay send automatic offers. The offer discount is predetermined by the seller, and has nothing to do with the buyer other the buyer having shown interest in the same or similar product.

Sellers also have their items limited to regions (most of my items are only available to US buyers), so if two people show interest in the same item, but one of them is not in the same region, they won't necessarily get the same offers.

Tip: If you're interested in something, watch it before doing anything else. Often watching it is enough to receive an offer if the seller has offers enabled (this is still true for listings without Best Offer options).

Thanks,
Josh

[Hydron]

I don't sell on eBay but this matches my experience. I wish it was only for "watched" items rather than also ones you've viewed - only a small proportion of stuff I've viewed is actually of serious interest so it ends up just being really spammy.

RE the regions thing, this is a total mess if you have potential shipping addresses in different countries, I keep needing to change default shipping address just to buy or offer on stuff (and also switch between ebay.co.uk and ebay.com), and you don't always even see stuff that you could actually buy . I read somewhere (no idea on accuracy) that they are stuck on an ancient codebase that stops them fixing this sort of shit?

[KungFuJosh]

I dunno, the codebase doesn't make sense. Things can usually be updated, and I'm guessing the regional functionality is as they want it to be.

Those restrictions are supposed to limit access, and what you're describing are ways to get around those restrictions.

My items that are listed for sale in US only aren't viewable outside of the US, or at least not without a US shipping address. I'm not sure how they do that part on eBay. On AliE, you only need to change your shipping country on the topbar and it will show things otherwise restricted.

I do wish that people could still view the items on eBay even though they can't buy them in their region...but that's allegedly only to make it easier to sell stuff off of eBay.

[Hydron]

They should just let you pick shipping address in these situations instead of showing an error and forcing you to constantly fiddle with your default addresses. Anyway OT rant over.

More on topic, has anyone from the UK gotten one of these, and what was the experience with VAT etc if so? Are the sellers declaring full value etc?

[Martin72]

Looking at the reviews, “my” dealer had sold 5 DMM7510s (currently, they have nothing on offer).
I bought mine on July 2 and received it on July 8.
I paid the amount converted into euros via PayPal and had no additional costs.

[Scottjd]

I bought mine on July 2 and received it on July 8.

I wish. You received yours about as fast as it took me to get a shipping label printed.
Mine was bought/paid for on October 12, just got the tracking and shipping label printed this morning.

[Martin72]

Under $1700 including, shipping, taxes, etc. is a decent deal. Around $1800ish all-in is pretty commonly available to any reasonable seller on eBay.

One of the few useful features of eBay is that you can actually view items that have been sold.
This gives you an idea of what the item is currently worth.



The “Chinese offensive” with prices around $1,900 is not a permanent situation.
Or, to put it another way, you should strike while such prices are on offer.

[KungFuJosh]

The “Chinese offensive” with prices around $1,900 is not a permanent situation.
Or, to put it another way, you should strike while such prices are on offer.

Perhaps, but I don't need one (as I must keep reminding myself) so I'll avoid it.

I'm guessing a new SDM4075A will cost less than (or at least cometitively priced compared to) a used DMM7510, so if I do give in and get a 7.5D, I'll probably wait for that.

[Martin72]

Perhaps, but I don't need one (as I must keep reminding myself) so I'll avoid it.

For me, the appeal was being able to calibrate all my references reliably with it—and I know you, it will be no different for you.

I'm guessing a new SDM4075A will cost less than (or at least cometitively priced compared to) a used DMM7510

If Siglent is serious about its first 7.5-digit meter, and I assume it is, it will be almost completely different from its previous meters—in fact, it has to be different.
Therefore, I assume that Siglent will compete more with Keysight's 7.5 digit meter.
It is cheaper than the DMM7510, so Siglent will also be cheaper.
But not much cheaper than the current Keysight.

[KungFuJosh]

I'm guessing a new SDM4075A will cost less than (or at least cometitively priced compared to) a used DMM7510

If Siglent is serious about its first 7.5-digit meter, and I assume it is, it will be almost completely different from its previous meters—in fact, it has to be different.
Therefore, I assume that Siglent will compete more with Keysight's 7.5 digit meter.
It is cheaper than the DMM7510, so Siglent will also be cheaper.
But not much cheaper than the current Keysight.

Perhaps on pricing they'll compete with that, but the SDM4000A series design is clearly Siglent's take on Keithley's design. The SDM3000X was their take on Keysight's design, but I think Siglent did the interface, options, and updates better than Keysight.

If Siglent releases the SDM4075A for under $2k, I think they'll do very well.

[Martin72]

7.5 digit resolution is in a league of its own; it's no coincidence that I was turned down by several calibration laboratories.
In other words, the jump from 6.5 to 7.5 is costly, and even Siglent can't work miracles.
If they are below the price of a Keysight, that would be very good:
https://www.datatec.eu/de/en/keysight-34470a-tisch-system-dmm
But they won't be able to do much less than that.

[KungFuJosh]

There's no use speculating. We'll see what price they charge when they come out.

[Scottjd]

There's no use speculating. We'll see what price they charge when they come out.

It will be interesting to see what they include and how much they charge. The 34470A With memory option is just over $5,000 USD not including the GBIP, that would be extra.
I think Siglent will be lower in cost than the 34470A, but I don’t think as low as these eBay ones are selling for now.
I will guess around $3,500 USD

[BillyO]

What's the main benefit of a 7.5D over say 6.5D meter? Is it like for more resolution on higher ranges, like if your BJT circuit has the base at 150V, and you have to use the 200V range ?

Also do they increase the input impedance any amount for a typical 7.5D meter ?

I want to get an old Electrometer, with really high input impedance, so I don't load down certain circuits, like trying to measure a BJT's VBE, or measuring other high-Z circuits like in a typical DMM or scope. But then if some old Electrometer only has 3-4 digits, that will be disappointing as well.

I recently acquired a Fluke 8840A/AF 5.5 digit and a HP 34401 6.5 digit.  Both of these have DCV input ranges that offer input impedances greater than 10G ohm.  I got both of these for under $500US.  10G ohm should be good enough to read Vbe on a transistor without unreasonable loading.

IMHO, for a hobbyist there is no "real" use case for a 7.5 digit meter, but some of us like nice toys.  I have no real use case for my Ducati Panigale V2 either. nor for my KTM 450 EXC, but I have both.

[tautech]

There's no use speculating. We'll see what price they charge when they come out.

It will be interesting to see what they include and how much they charge. The 34470A With memory option is just over $5,000 USD not including the GBIP, that would be extra.
I think Siglent will be lower in cost than the 34470A, but I don’t think as low as these eBay ones are selling for now.
I will guess around $3,500 USD

Considering the SDM4065A is under $1k I don't see the SDM4075A being more than twice the price unless it's priced to just undercut the competitor's.
And while GPIB is not standard Siglent do offer a USB-GPIB adapter for an additional $135

[Kleinstein]

7.5 digit resolution is in a league of its own; it's no coincidence that I was turned down by several calibration laboratories.
In other words, the jump from 6.5 to 7.5 is costly, and even Siglent can't work miracles.
If they are below the price of a Keysight, that would be very good:
https://www.datatec.eu/de/en/keysight-34470a-tisch-system-dmm
But they won't be able to do much less than that.

The 7.5 digit meters around are quite different. With modern meters there is no more a clear cut to say if it's 6 or 7 digits. The theoretical resolution of the ADCs is usually high enough and it's more noise and drift limited. The 6.5 digit KS34465 and 7 digit 34470 are mainly different in the reference (and likely some extra testing). By todays standard the Keithley 2001 is more like 6.5 digits from the noise. The DMM7510 is more at the high end.

[Scottjd]

Well this is interesting considering it’s a first for me. I got a text from UPS about owing taxes/import fees on the meter.
I know most text messages like this are a scam, so unlike some people I actually have a UPS account and was able to verify it’s legit. No wonder people are falling for the scam text messages so much now these days

But I was also very specific about the sale options like seller pays return shipping, etc. One thing eBay noted in the add was:
“This item includes applicable import fees-you won't pay anything extra after checkout.”
I would have assumed this ment tariffs fees also?
Besides these tariffs are paid by the sellers and manufactures, not the customers. (sarcasm).
So I wonder if I should try to take this up with the sellers or eBay since it’s eBay statement after all.

So now to prevent delivery date being pushed back I have to pay this fee without even confirming it’s the correct item and hope that I was being sent a box of rocks.
And who refund me this fee if it’s broken and I have to return it?
To make it more confusing after I confirmed the text was real I clicked the link and it tells me one price, but my UPS account tells me a higher price. And UPS makes the statement of:
“All currency displayed in USD. Charges displayed are estimated and subject to change based on new information provided to UPS Brokerage.”
So in the end it might even be more? How are people supposed to know up front before buying something how much extra this all costs?

I guess I can also expect this on the PDVS 2 Mini v2 that should be arriving Friday also.At least I have more confidence in this item it wont be the wrong thing or rocks in a box.
Well this might be the last time I buy anything on eBay from overseas until there is a clear chart on costs and fees up front.

UPDATE:
Even UPS can’t tell me what the fee would be upfront, depends on country, item, new, or used and other variables.
As for the difference in the price, well UPS charges $12 if you pay it during the delivery. If you pay it online then you dont get charged that $12. Seems high for a mobile processing fee, but I guess everyone get to make more money from this except the customer.

[exe]

And who refund me this fee if it’s broken and I have to return it?

Idk exactly, but it's a standard procedure. Heard that from a friend of mine who does procurement for a university (in Italy). You'll need to do some paperwork upfront to indicate that your shipment is a return, and you want your taxes/vat/whatever back.

As of fees, I'd push back. I think we, as consumers, deserve to be provided with accurate information about total costs. The amount is also not insignificant, I assume.

[KungFuJosh]

You're not supposed to pay import fees (tariffs) if it says that on eBay. You should complain for sure, and get the tariff amount refunded from your purchase price.

Getting a refund on tariffs is a huge headache, even if you return the product.