Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount supercap (also Fluke 287, Fluke 289)

[TVman]

You need to replace that capacitor!
Otherwise it will be  forever!

[casinada]

dr Diesel,
Did you repair it yourself or sent it to Fluke?
I purchased mine second hand.

[retiredcaps]

It was bad definitely,it started with would not turn on all the time and by changing batteries would fix the problem for the while then  finally died.

Check the battery contact strips to make sure they are making contact with the pcb.  You might have bent them while putting the back cover on?

See modemhead's pictures here.

http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/f189_00/F189_026.JPG

If they seem okay, see if the PCB is getting any voltage from the 4 AA batteries?

[dr.diesel]

dr Diesel,
Did you repair it yourself or sent it to Fluke?
I purchased mine second hand.

Yup replaced myself, no need to wait weeks/months for Fluke and a $2 part, took 2 minutes.

Disclaimer, you'll likely void your warranty if there is any left.  If you search back on this thread I posted the Digikey part number I used.

[casinada]

Got RMA for my Fluke 289 today. I'm shipping to Everett Washington tomorrow. They said that turnaround is 5 days, I can live with that. Never sent a unit to Fluke before, I want to see what happens.

[tsmith35]

Casinada, units I've sent in to them in the past were cleaned and calibrated. They have pretty nice service.

[BravoV]

Casinada, what type of damage did you claim at the RMA declaration ? Just bad cap ?

Too bad its sealed, really curious what type of cap Fluke used for the replacement. 

[casinada]

I sent the Fluke 289 on April 2nd and they shipped it back on April 17th. I should be getting it back sometime next week.
I called and told them that the each time I changed the batteries I had to reset the time and date and that it was draining the batteries faster than normal otherwise the DMM was working great. It must be something very common as they didn't ask any questions and generated an RMA. Originally they told me that the turnaround was 5 business days but when I called Tech support on Tuesday they told me that the backlog was around four weeks. I'll report further when I get the unit back. So far the service has been top notch.

[casinada]

I got the Repaired Fluke 289 today:
Service detail:
Problem description: Does not hold time, drains battery.
Repair description: Diagnosis: confirmed the problem
Replaced C145, Ready for cal

The calibration was verified with a Fluke 5520A Calibrator and found in tolerance.
They sent a calibration certificate but without values
Overall great service 

[tsmith35]

Well, C145 is the supercap, so that solves that.



Looks like you got a nice turnaround time. Glad to hear it worked out for you.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

I can report two DIY fixes of Fluke 289s.

Unit 1

Symptoms: unit works fine, all reading correct, kills the batteries in a few days, even if switched off.

Findings:
Measured current consumption around 30 mA when off. Removed the CAP C145, off current dropped to 45uA

Connected C145 to power supply, set 3.3V  with mA meter in series. Test confirmed bad supercap.

Fix: Replaced the super capacitor with Panasonic Coin Super Capacitor 0.33F 5.5V EEC-S0HD334H

(This is larger than the original but it can be made to fit)


Unit 2

Symptoms: unit works fine, all reading correct, loses time and data if batteries are removed for about 10 minutes

Findings:
Measured current consumption around 2 mA when off. Removed the CAP C145, off current dropped to 45uA

Connected C145 to power supply, set 3.3V  with mA meter in series. Test confirmed bad supercap.

Fix: Replaced the super capacitor with Panasonic Coin Super Capacitor 0.33F 5.5V EEC-S0HD334H

(This is larger than the original but it can be made to fit)

I think that Panasonic was optimistic in rating the original part at 3.3V. Typical values are 2.7V for a single capacitor and 5.5V for the parts that internally have two capacitors in series.

Unit 3

This is a unit that I purchased new and has very few hours of use. The current consumption of this meter was 45uA when off.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[casinada]

Good job Jay.
Why didn't you send them to Fluke? At least they do a Calibration verification after the repair.

[BravoV]

... current consumption around 30 mA when off.

Wow .. 30mA !!!! 

Those darn cap are sucking the batteries power so bad even the meter is turned off, I guess they will be sucked dried in days.

Btw, did you measure the capacitance of those goo oozing bad caps ? How much left ?

JDB, thanks for reporting this. 

[xwarp]

Fix: Replaced the super capacitor with Panasonic Coin Super Capacitor 0.33F 5.5V EEC-S0HD334H

(This is larger than the original but it can be made to fit)

What had to be done for the new cap to be made to fit?

If this cap is nothing more than being used to keep the time in memory for the time it takes to replace batteries, then can a lower voltage be used if the size is closer to the original?

[WVL_KsZeN]

Never use a lower voltage, only a lower capacity. Actually, you want to use a cap with a higher voltage to make it last longer.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Good job Jay.
Why didn't you send them to Fluke? At least they do a Calibration verification after the repair.

Several reasons:

1) I am not the original owner. The new one which has not failed (yet?) is mine from new. One of the used units is mine the other belongs to a friend.

2) I want to see if the meters had the problem reported here.

3) The super capacitor does not impact calibration.

4) It was quicker to fix than return to Fluke.

5) If Fluke replaced C145 with the same part, the problem will return.

6) I can do a performance check, I can't call it a calibration because my equipment has not been calibrated recently. I have the following:

Fluke 5101B - Multifunction calibrator
Fluke 732A - DC Voltage standard
Datron 1281 - 8.5 digit meter

Fluke would like to find them out of calibration, so they can charge you for a calibration.

7) I have no reason to believe that the meters were out of calibration.

To xwarp

I will post a picture the next time I have it apart. It is quite easy, you trim the leads and solder the thru-hole part to the SMD pads.

To BravoV,

I did not measure the capacitance of the bad caps, they was so much leakage current it would be hard to do. If I had to, I would measure the discharge time with a resistive load. But these caps were dead, expired, permanently damaged, useless, beyond hope... 

I think that this is correct:

   for two fixed 289s 

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[casinada]

Thank you for Replying Jay,
I purchased mine used and they never asked me anything but the serial number of the unit. As soon as I told them the problem they issued an RMA.
I'm sure they know what is going on with the supercap so they're probably using a better part (don't know because it has the stickers now so I don't want to open it). Every time they open an instrument for repair they do a calibration if necessary. On my 289 they plugged it to a 5520A and it was still within specifications. I wonder how they test temperature and capacitance.
I'm trying to repair a Fluke 5102B...progress is very slow. It would help to have the extender boards. There are lots of revisions of this calibrator
I try to repair everything myself but in this case sending the unit to Fluke was part of the experience

[quarks]

I wonder how they test temperature and capacitance.

If you look in the calibration manual (page 16-17) you find

if you do not have a calibrator you can just look at a Type K data table and try to simulate the Input Voltages:
0°C = 0V
100°C = 4,09623mV
1000°C = 41,27561mV

and for capacitance verification they only check one value (5nF see page 19)

[casinada]

[Excavatoree]

Thank you for Replying Jay,
I purchased mine used and they never asked me anything but the serial number of the unit. As soon as I told them the problem they issued an RMA.

I doubt they'd repair my 189-II, however.  It's pretty obvious I'm not the original owner.  I suppose I could get a 287 LCD mask for it, but I suspect the serial number is flagged as well.   

However, I could be wrong.  Has anyone tried it?

[casinada]

Excavatoree,
Just Call and open a Ticket. They will ask for your name, address, email, serial number.

[retiredcaps]

Excavatoree,
Just Call and open a Ticket. They will ask for your name, address, email, serial number.

@Excavatoree, identify yourself as the owner of the staircase Fluke photo.  That might buy you some goodwill?

[tsmith35]

@Excavatoree, identify yourself as the owner of the staircase Fluke photo.  That might buy you some goodwill?

Wow, just looked it up... stairway to heaven?

[malgailany]

Excavatoree,

I wrote my experience with fluke, check it out
http://mjlorton.com/forum/index.php?topic=531.msg4429#msg4429

Cheers!

[tsmith35]

I wrote my experience with fluke, check it out
http://mjlorton.com/forum/index.php?topic=531.msg4429#msg4429

Wow, that's pretty cool. Looks like a new meter.