Fluke 87V MAX versus Hioki DT4282 compared [video]

[ahakman]

The 189 IV and the 289 are completely different meters. They have similar specs and similar operations on the dials, but the 189 IV boots instantly, and uses a normal (non dot-matrix) LCD. It also chews through way less battery power.

The 289 has very similar features and specs to the 189 IV, but is worse in almost every way - dot matrix screen, slow booting, chews through batteries, etc etc.

The 189 IV is the meter you want for a super high end portable.

[BeBuLamar]

I actually never know of the 189 IV. There was only the 189 II but it's the same as the 289. It was my typo to call it the 189 IV.

[Fungus]

I actually never know of the 189 IV.

There's no such meter. The 189 was launched as the 87 IV but too many people complained so Fluke renamed  it as the 189 (and made the 87V).

There was only the 189 II but it's the same as the 289. It was my typo to call it the 189 IV.

The 189 II became today's 289.

Bottom line: The 187/189 are Fluke's design peak. After that it's all just "Protect the 87V"

[BeBuLamar]

What I meant is that when Fluke demostrated to me the 189 II/289 using the laptop it didn't reveal the problem of low contrast, slow boot time and slow autorange in resistance mode all of which made me not using the 289 much. At the time just shortly after I bought the 189 they did that demo to me made me feel bad and thought I should wait. But now I am glad I bought the 189.

[J-R]

Comparisons like this can break down pretty quickly without a specific (narrow) use case.  The 189 does feel closer to the DT4282, from the perspective of the display.  Similarly, the 289 seems like a different product entirely, with the unique Min/Max and graphical trend display options.

BTW, battery life, directly from the Fluke manuals:
189 - "72 Hours typical (with backlight off)"
289 - "100 hours minimum. 200 hours in Logging mode"

[EEVblog]

I actually never know of the 189 IV.

There's no such meter. The 189 was launched as the 87 IV but too many people complained so Fluke renamed  it as the 189 (and made the 87V).

There was only the 189 II but it's the same as the 289. It was my typo to call it the 189 IV.

The 189 II became today's 289.

Bottom line: The 187/189 are Fluke's design peak. After that it's all just "Protect the 87V"

Yes, that was a very interesting (and confusing at the time) turn.
But when you have an industry standard is totally makes sense to protect that cash cow for as long as possible.

[Fungus]

But when you have an industry standard is totally makes sense to protect that cash cow for as long as possible.

I bet it annoys the Fluke engineers though.

[bdunham7]

I bet it annoys the Fluke engineers though.

I don't know where you get the idea that they 'protect' it unless you're suggesting that they introduce a cheaper 'bang for buck' model to compete with Uni-T for your hobbyist dollar.  There are two more rugged (IP67) meters at similar price points that could be considered competitors and the 287 sits right above it in the line, only $200 more.  The basic 179 sits right below it in the lineup.  Those are all 'cash cows' as they've been in production for decades, which is a 'feature, not a bug' for Fluke.  And then there's the 3000FC, which is probably attractive to many real Fluke 87V customers. 

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/electrical-testing/digital-multimeters/fluke-3000-fc

[EEVblog]

I don't know where you get the idea that they 'protect' it unless you're suggesting that they introduce a cheaper 'bang for buck' model to compete with Uni-T for your hobbyist dollar. 

The renaming of the 87 IV to the 189 was clearly done to protect the traditional 87III market at the time and avoid confusion that Fluke were going to discontinue the 87V form factor and features.
It's likely that no amunt of reassurance that they weren't going to discontinue the 87III worked, so they changed it quick smart.
And then it's been the same design and features for two decades now, with no visible upgrade. The 87V came out in 2004, almost 20 years ago now.
In that time a lot has changed inside, IICR they switched processors to the MSP430 and did other things, but outside it was the same.
They are clearly protecting a winner, and Fluke have told me as much.

[EEVblog]

But when you have an industry standard is totally makes sense to protect that cash cow for as long as possible.

I bet it annoys the Fluke engineers though.

It took them a year to fix that GSM hardware problem I raised in a video a long time ago. Probably the most excitement they'd had in years 

[bdunham7]

They are clearly protecting a winner, and Fluke have told me as much.

I think that's more of a "New Coke" story, so we may not agree on what 'protect' means.  If it means promising to continue producing the same old product--even with respun insides--that's one thing and one Fluke does as a matter of policy.  But I don't see that they've protected it in the way that Fungus implies, meaning they deliberately withold other products from the market.  My point was that there were and currently are Fluke products that a user could reasonably buy instead of the 87V.  (They're all cash cows as far as I can tell...) The 189, no matter how named, would have still been a Fluke model that advanced users could have bought instead of the 87 series.  I wouldn't expect Fluke to design and produce a cheaper product with more features  just to compete with themselves.  I think the 87V protects itself with continuing demand for that specific model.

[Fungus]

But I don't see that they've protected it in the way that Fungus implies, meaning they deliberately withold other products from the market.

What's your opinion on those "Asia only" models that they don't sell in the USA?

[EEVblog]

I wouldn't expect Fluke to design and produce a cheaper product with more features  just to compete with themselves.

They actually trialed this 20+ years ago or so. Although it didn't have more features or better specs. But bang-per-buck was vastly better. It started with the Fluke 19 that was made in China and only sold in the Asia Pacific region which included Australia. Dick Smith used to sell it. It used the 87V (87III?) chipset at the time.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-quick-look-at-a-fluke-19-dmm/
But they had serious problems with the chipset failing or some such. We had half a dozen of these at work, and I had one personally, and every one of them eventually failed.
You'd be lucky to find a working model these days.
It was eventually morphed into the 110 series and the 18B+ is the modern equivalent.

I think the 87V protects itself with continuing demand for that specific model.

Yes. Military, government, and other industrial sales would drive that. But they deliberately haven't updated it in 20 years now. No extra incremental feature 87VI

[BILLPOD]

   I bought my 189 in 2007, and remember choosing it over the 87V because of the logging function. I have never regretted my decision

[BeBuLamar]

Yes I bought the 189 when Fluke said they couldn't fix my original 87. After I bought the 189 they came out with the 189 II (289) and at the time I thought I made a mistake not waiting a while longer to get the 289. But now I am glad I bought the 189 with my own money. I have both a 289 and a 287 rarely used but I have them for free. I wouldn't pay for them.

[willinsau]

They actually trialed this 20+ years ago or so. Although it didn't have more features or better specs. But bang-per-buck was vastly better. It started with the Fluke 19 that was made in China and only sold in the Asia Pacific region which included Australia. Dick Smith used to sell it. It used the 87V (87III?) chipset at the time.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-quick-look-at-a-fluke-19-dmm/
But they had serious problems with the chipset failing or some such. We had half a dozen of these at work, and I had one personally, and every one of them eventually failed.
You'd be lucky to find a working model these days.

I am now in Australia. I got a fluke 19 2 month before, It works well. But when I open the case, it use the bargain components replace the normal Fluke does. So I resell it at $35.