Fluke 87V MAX versus Hioki DT4282 compared [video]

[Jiri Bekr]

Hello guys,

I am bringing you my Fluke 87V MAX versus Hioki DT4282 video - Two hi-end industrial multimeters compared side to side. Most of the important features for everyday serious probing are thoroughly tested, and their behavior and implementation is examined. Comprehensive table with 75 rows of different parameters is also available for download here or under the video for clearer evaluation or easy later return for some info.

PS: few bugs and problems found

Video:
https://youtu.be/hfAm1Gen9ng

[NoMoreMagicSmoke]

I had to stop watching pretty quickly. The Fluke was definitely done dirty. A 6000 count meter is expected to have worse specifications compared to a 60000 count meter. The price for the fluke was also very skewed as well (I see the 87Max listed as $588 USD, but the comparison showed it as $994 USD  ).

The 6000 count Fluke 87 is more comparable to the 6000 count Hioki DT4261, and a fairer comparison to the 60000 count Hioki 4282 would have been the 60000 count Fluke 287.

[bdunham7]

Not sure what you are getting at as it doesn't make any more sense to 'compare' those meters than it would to compare an Audi sedan to a John Deere tractor.  The whole point of an 87V MAX is that it is a rugged, durable meter for use in difficult environments.  So its USPs (unique selling points) are the IP67 rating, the 4-meter drop rating, extended battery life and limited lifetime warranty.  None of the issues you compare are of much relevance to the vast majority of customers that would purchase this meter.  Also, if you are going to use US$ as a price comparison you should use (at most) the US list price from Fluke which is $589, or else be explicit about the source of the prices.

[Jiri Bekr]

TO: NoMoreMagicSmoke

Your stopping watching very quickly is the problem here.
If you would actually watch it, you would see how I compare them when Fluke is running in Hi-Res 20 000 counts mode.

The price is actual price I took from two Czech OFFICIAL distributors (Teste.cz for Hioki and GHVTrading.cz for Fluke, feel free to check out, they cost even more today). And if you actually watched the video, you would also hear that prices may vary depending on where you are, and that these prices include 21% tax. It's impossible for me to find prices for every market on the planet and mention them all...

The 6 000 / 20 000 counts Fluke 87V series is fully comparable to Hioki DT4282, as they are both industrial hi-ends and there is not that significant price difference as between 87V MAX and DT4261. 87V MAX costs twice as much... And trying to compare DT4282 against F287? Are you serious? F287 also costs exactly twice as much as DT4282.

There is no problem with these mentioned in the video, the only problem is you not watching the video, and rather trying to dishonor someone's work based on made up arguments, fabricated by you, that are far from truth. I am not responsible for people not seeing my video, and for them making up their opinions based on nothing, just made up stuff. Also, this behavior is very unprofessional.

[JeremyC]

Jiri, as others already mentioned, you’re comparing apples to oranges.
If you want to make a fair comparison, then compare the Hioki DT4282 with Fluke 287.

Prices in the US:
  Amazon
    DT4282     $435 (on sale)
    Fluke 287  $662
  Tequipment
    DT4282     $574
    Fluke 287  $670

[BeBuLamar]

I must agree that is not a good comparison. For my work I definitely choose the Fluke 87V Max but for my home use I definitely pick the Hioki DT4282 regardless of price. So it depends on what the intended use.

[Jiri Bekr]

Jiri, as others already mentioned, you’re comparing apples to oranges.
If you want to make a fair comparison, then compare the Hioki DT4282 with Fluke 287.

Prices in the US:
  Amazon
    DT4282     $435 (on sale)
    Fluke 287  $662
  Tequipment
    DT4282     $574
    Fluke 287  $670

These prices you have mentioned are dependent on the market though, as things like import tax are applied, and these are not the same for every country.
Here in Europe, the prices are as I mentioned in the video. And just as I mentioned in the video, they may be market depentent. And also, I have included 21% VAT, that is only paid if you are not a company.


Prices right now in Europe (2023-05-04):

Official distributors:
Hioki from Teste: 685,37 USD (incl VAT)
Fluke from GHV Trading: 1047,58 USD (incl VAT)

Farnell:
Fluke 87V MAX: 922,27 USD (incl VAT)
Hioki DT4282: 692,64 USD (incl VAT)


While I agree 87V MAX is not exactly direct competitor to DT4282, you can easily take in account the differences between 87V and 87V MAX (that I have of course mentioned in the video), and then it's like comparing classic 87V against DT4282. Classic 87V costs 951,16 USD right now here in Europe.

[Fungus]

and then it's like comparing classic 87V against DT4282.

Yep. The 87V MAX is worse than the plain 87V in measurement specifications but much more expensive because of the ruggedness.

[J-R]

The 87V Max is actually the 28II inside.  This has been discussed to death previously in other threads.

Forcing two DMMs to compete makes no sense to me.  It makes some sense to compare two competing stud-less sports-sedan snow tires, or two vinyl triple-pane residential windows, whatever...

I like the 87V (non-Max) and I also like the DT4282.  I've been planning to buy one for quite some time, just never hit the button.  The best prices I've found for these are on ebay, shipped from Japan.

[Fungus]

The 87V Max is actually the 28II inside.  This has been discussed to death previously in other threads.

So how come the diode test voltage is different? 

[J-R]

The 87V Max is actually the 28II inside.  This has been discussed to death previously in other threads.

So how come the diode test voltage is different? 

Because it's not?

[Fungus]

The 87V Max is actually the 28II inside.  This has been discussed to death previously in other threads.

So how come the diode test voltage is different? 

Because it's not?

Time to re-open those discussions in the other threads?


Different voltage, different accuracy.

[Someone]

The 87V Max is actually the 28II inside.  This has been discussed to death previously in other threads.

So how come the diode test voltage is different?

Different voltage, different accuracy.

28 II, Diode
2.000V Range, 0.001V Resolution, ±1% + 1 Accuracy

Yep, 28 II matches the 87V max, not the 87

[Fungus]

Yep, 28 II matches the 87V max, not the 87

Yep, the "Max" is the 28 II, not the 87V.

[Someone]

Yep, 28 II matches the 87V max, not the 87

Yep, the "Max" is the 28 II, not the 87V.

Read the quotes (minus your obnoxious whitespace and inflammatory emoticon):

The 87V Max is actually the 28II inside.  This has been discussed to death previously in other threads.

So how come the diode test voltage is different?

Because it's not?

[J-R]

It's understandable, Fungus must have forgotten his glasses or missed his afternoon power nap!

To bring things back on topic, I did watch some of the video when it was first posted.  It's a bit long unless you just need that level of detail.  The interesting part I learned about the 87V Max is the fact that when you're in Hi-res mode, the manual range display does not match: https://youtu.be/hfAm1Gen9ng?t=1873

The 87V has this same "issue".  It is an odd situation to try to solve, and I suspect Fluke made a conscious decision here.  Personally I think they should have just made the DMM a 20k count DMM all the time and just skipped the 6k count mode completely.

[Fungus]

Oh, brain fart.

I was reading a thread about price of 87V vs. price of 87VMax and somebody slipped in a 28II.

[BeBuLamar]

I haven't use the 87V or 87V Max in high res mode except to see if it works. I guess it's slower and for all the work I do with the 87 I do not need the high res and I want it to response fast. One of the reason I hate to use the 289 or 287 for my work because it's autorange in resistance is too slow.

[J-R]

Quality, not quantity, Fungus...

I'm sure there could be other ways to solve the "problem" with the manual range not reflecting reality in Hi-res mode, I'm just saying that is one way they could have addressed it.  I don't think they would have had any issues making a fast 20k count DMM if they went that route.

The other solution of having additional LCD digits is really not going to be practical, because even "2 00" for example would be confusing since it can only display a "1" in the most significant digit.  So they may have had to use "19 00" or similar.

[coromonadalix]

Another nothingless thread  ....  bad compairaisons indeed

same thing   for the false 500,000 count on some meters,   an "high res"  gimmick     compare real ranges  without resorting to display tricks

[J-R]

Another nothingless thread  ....  bad compairaisons indeed

same thing   for the false 500,000 count on some meters,   an "high res"  gimmick     compare real ranges  without resorting to display tricks

Hey now, the video has good information if you're shopping for either of those models.  The flashing red backlight on the Hioki is kind of cool, BTW.

And if you're referring to the relatively restrictive 500k count mode on the BM869s, it actually does work especially if you just make a point of calibrating it.  Specifically the 5V range is dead-simple to do since there are lots of cheap 5V references out there.  At the upper end of each range it can be a bit off depending on environmentals, but up to 25% or so it's spot on to the very last digit, and maybe one LSD off above that which is useful.  It's also very good for values just beyond the range, say 10V.  Again, assuming the calibration is good.

[NoMoreMagicSmoke]

TO: NoMoreMagicSmoke

Your stopping watching very quickly is the problem here.
If you would actually watch it, you would see how I compare them when Fluke is running in Hi-Res 20 000 counts mode.

The price is actual price I took from two Czech OFFICIAL distributors (Teste.cz for Hioki and GHVTrading.cz for Fluke, feel free to check out, they cost even more today). And if you actually watched the video, you would also hear that prices may vary depending on where you are, and that these prices include 21% tax. It's impossible for me to find prices for every market on the planet and mention them all...

The 6 000 / 20 000 counts Fluke 87V series is fully comparable to Hioki DT4282, as they are both industrial hi-ends and there is not that significant price difference as between 87V MAX and DT4261. 87V MAX costs twice as much... And trying to compare DT4282 against F287? Are you serious? F287 also costs exactly twice as much as DT4282.

There is no problem with these mentioned in the video, the only problem is you not watching the video, and rather trying to dishonor someone's work based on made up arguments, fabricated by you, that are far from truth. I am not responsible for people not seeing my video, and for them making up their opinions based on nothing, just made up stuff. Also, this behavior is very unprofessional.

I watched up until the point where you made the statement "Hioki measured ACV and the Fluke estimates ACV". I was willing to give it a chance, but I couldn't keep watching after picking a poor comparison, then bashing the Fluke because of the poor matching. I hope you can agree that watching 20 minutes was enough for my opinion to be something more than "Made up stuff".

Again, the Fluke 87 Max is a different target market than the Hioki DT4282. The Fluke 287 is the meter that competes with the DT4282, and in my opinion making that comparison (and stating your cost difference) would have been a more fair comparison.

[BeBuLamar]

Again, the Fluke 87 Max is a different target market than the Hioki DT4282. The Fluke 287 is the meter that competes with the DT4282, and in my opinion making that comparison (and stating your cost difference) would have been a more fair comparison.

I have to agree with you. For my work I definitely pick the Fluke 87V Max and really never even care about the 20,000 count mode. I don't need that high res nor accuracy. I do want the IP67 and the long warranty. I did need them both. But if I buy one for use at home the Hioki is a better meter. I think the Hioki DT4282 is closer to the Fluke older 189 or 187. It's 100 hrs battery life is comparable to the 189/187 not the 87V or 87V Max.
One thing I hate that when my work is hectic and I am in a hurry and I have to get new batteries for the meter.

[NoMoreMagicSmoke]

Again, the Fluke 87 Max is a different target market than the Hioki DT4282. The Fluke 287 is the meter that competes with the DT4282, and in my opinion making that comparison (and stating your cost difference) would have been a more fair comparison.

I have to agree with you. For my work I definitely pick the Fluke 87V Max and really never even care about the 20,000 count mode. I don't need that high res nor accuracy. I do want the IP67 and the long warranty. I did need them both. But if I buy one for use at home the Hioki is a better meter. I think the Hioki DT4282 is closer to the Fluke older 189 or 187. It's 100 hrs battery life is comparable to the 189/187 not the 87V or 87V Max.
One thing I hate that when my work is hectic and I am in a hurry and I have to get new batteries for the meter.

I have always thought the 20,000 count mode was a bit gimmicky. I know people use it to measure for drift, but since the accuracy spec is double digit counts in 20k mode, it's not really good for much more than that.

I agree with you on the Fluke 187 and 189. I much prefer those older meters to the newer 287/9. I think Fluke went way to complicated with the 28x series.

[BeBuLamar]

When I sent in my original 87 (bought in 89) to Fluke for repair of the bad display the second time in 2004. They said they can't fix it anymore and offered me $100 credit toward the new 189. So I bought the 189. About a month later or so they contacted me and wanted an interview with me for an hour and gave me a $100 HomeDepot gift certificate. So I sat down with them and they showed me on their laptop a simulator of what was going to be the 189 IV (now they changed the name to 289). I asked me a couple of things like do I want the temperature to show in bot C and F? I said I want to be able to switch but I don't want to see both at the same time. Any way I liked the new dot matrix display but little did I know that when I got my hand on the real 289 the display is so low in contrast that I almost always have to use the backlight. The simulator on the laptop didn't show this problem. Also I didn't know that it boots up so slowly and the autoranging in Ohm mode is too slow. So I told them I liked the new meter a lot which I don't really now that I have used them in real life.