New GW Instek GDS-2000E oscilloscope released

[markone]

IMO this could be solved without any big caps. Feedback loop could be modified a bit, for example, by adding some small capacitor somewhere before the optocoupler.

Yep, but it's seem risky, testing should be done on dummy load 

It's weird that GW-Instek does not take care about that, i was considering the GDS-2072E purchase but this detail it's a deal breaker for me, i too hate high pitch noise as nctnico do.

[markone]

I doubt filters will work because the problem is obviously loop stability in the PSU. The in-between-cable could be an option but you'll have to find a good mounting point for it. In case of issues it isn't hard to put the PSU back into it's original state but I doubt the service techs will even notice the extra capacitors. It would be interesting if someone experimented with the values and see if only the 5V needs extra capacitance or only (what I think is) the 3.3V line.

So there is not warranty sticker on the cover ?

[wraper]

IMO this could be solved without any big caps. Feedback loop could be modified a bit, for example, by adding some small capacitor somewhere before the optocoupler.

Yep, but it's seem risky, testing should be done on dummy load 

It's weird that GW-Instek does not take care about that, i was considering the GDS-2072E purchase but this detail it's a deal breaker for me, i too hate high pitch noise as nctnico do.

Don't forger that Rigol and other scope fans are not noiseless too. The worst device on my bench is Agilent 34461A multimeter, the fan sound have so horrible pitch that it just drives me nuts.

[nctnico]

IMO this could be solved without any big caps. Feedback loop could be modified a bit, for example, by adding some small capacitor somewhere before the optocoupler.

In theory I agree and that was my first intention but since this is a multi-output power supply I found that too tricky.

It's weird that GW-Instek does not take care about that, i was considering the GDS-2072E purchase but this detail it's a deal breaker for me, i too hate high pitch noise as nctnico do.

I have send a video file with the high pitched whining noise clearly audible to Gw Instek several weeks ago so they are aware this is an issue. BTW there is no 'warranty void' sticker on the case and it is easy to open (just watch Dave's recent teardown of a GW Instek scope).

[markone]

I have send a video file with the high pitched whining noise clearly audible to Gw Instek several weeks ago so they are aware this is an issue. BTW there is no 'warranty void' sticker on the case and it is easy to open (just watch Dave's recent teardown of a GW Instek scope).

Perfect, thanks.

[markone]

I have send a video file with the high pitched whining noise clearly audible to Gw Instek several weeks ago so they are aware this is an issue. BTW there is no 'warranty void' sticker on the case and it is easy to open (just watch Dave's recent teardown of a GW Instek scope).

Ok, so they do not care a lot about this things.

I have a question about the FFT implementation in this scope: is it possible to change the number of FFT points, or they change as a function of freq. span setting (or something like that).

[nctnico]

The number of FFT points depends on the acquisition length (maximum 1Mpts) so it is 1kpts, 10kpts, 100kpts en 1Mpts.

[markone]

The number of FFT points depends on the acquisition length (maximum 1Mpts) so it is 1kpts, 10kpts, 100kpts en 1Mpts.

Ok, after a long suffered decisional process, i just pulled the trigger for the SDG-2072E, trusting in your positive feedback 

I guess also mine will come with "whining noise acoustic sound source" factory installed and i know that i will have to get used to its UI "philosophy", but i'll manage that in some way.

Sadly my beloved DS1074Z's screen is too much fatiguing for my eyes so i was looking for a cheap 2CH scope with big easy to read screen, uart serial decode, responsive UI and decent FFT function (update speed & frq. resolution), this one seems to meet all these requirements and thanks to Zynq SOC inside it looks innovative and powerfull (computing power wise).

"Zynq Inside", sounds well !

I bet also Rigol will go that way (FPGA SOC inside Zynq or Cyclone V) with next generation scopes.

In the same price league i considered also the SDS1102X, but it too seems to have small meas text's font and tear down video shows an improvised metal chassis and some soldering "oops"; it's a pity, the rest would have been ok for my need, they have to improve all this stuff.

For instance my Siglent SDG2042X seems made in a different way and works a treat.

The R&S HMO1212 was also under my attention, but it's higher specs and it would cost me 3X with serial protocol decoding function license, too much for my home tinkering.

Let' see what happens ... (i hope no sh*t, finger crossed)

PS :  the beta FW that you are using, is it now available on GW web site for download ?

[nctnico]

Just make sure you can return it if you end up not liking it!

Edit: about the firmware: I think it will take a little while because they just had Chinese new year and they all need to recover from their hangovers first! Remember Taiwan is some kind of China.

[Wuerstchenhund]

... and i know that i will have to get used to its UI "philosophy"

In my opinion the eye sore factor would go down a lot if the Asian brands would stop using serif fonts which look cheap and are more difficult to read, especially at smaller sizes.

[nctnico]

... and i know that i will have to get used to its UI "philosophy"

In my opinion the eye sore factor would go down a lot if the Asian brands would stop using serif fonts which look cheap and are more difficult to read, especially at smaller sizes.

GW Instek seems to use a mixture of both. Some say a serif font actually looks more classic but I agree it can be difficult to read when made small (I really hate MS Word uses the 'Times new roman' font by default). Also many commandline consoles like plain DOS and the Windows' DOS box uses a serif font.

[markone]

... and i know that i will have to get used to its UI "philosophy"

In my opinion the eye sore factor would go down a lot if the Asian brands would stop using serif fonts which look cheap and are more difficult to read, especially at smaller sizes.

I agree, someone has to convince them one time for all, but i understand that using a complete different written (and spoken) language system does not help.

Talking about Rigol they should remove something from the screen of DS1000Z scopes,  two fixed lateral menu bars plus top & bottom header shrinked down a 7 inch screen to 5 inch, WTF !
Come on, those f****g small fonts are RIDICULOUS, no sh!t 

Otherwise one has to think that the system is not able to fill the screen with live waveform's graph.

[Wuerstchenhund]

... and i know that i will have to get used to its UI "philosophy"

In my opinion the eye sore factor would go down a lot if the Asian brands would stop using serif fonts which look cheap and are more difficult to read, especially at smaller sizes.

GW Instek seems to use a mixture of both. Some say a serif font actually looks more classic but I agree it can be difficult to read when made small (I really hate MS Word uses the 'Times new roman' font by default). Also many commandline consoles like plain DOS and the Windows' DOS box uses a serif font.

Serifs are not that bad if you sit on a high resolution display but there's a reason why pretty much all big brand test gear uses san serif fonts on their displays. Especially on smaller screens readability suffers a lot with serif fonts.

It's funny though that Chinese are often accused of copying stuff from established brands, but for some reason that never extends to the UI or the fonts. I guess the supposed "classic" look is the reason that the Asian stuff comes with it. But these days it's pretty much synonymous for "cheap" and "low quality kit" because that's where its predominantly found.

[markone]

Just make sure you can return it if you end up not liking it!

Edit: about the firmware: I think it will take a little while because they just had Chinese new year and they all need to recover from their hangovers first! Remember Taiwan is some kind of China.

Yes, under some aspect are similar but a lot different in all the rest.

I was hoping that TME didn't  make mess with the my order but probably they did,  they shipped all the order parts BUT the scope, WTF!

When i placed the order on web shop system there were five pieces available ready to ship, now only one, no one shipped to me.
Now i'm wondering if they dropship it from external warehouse.

[markone]

Just make sure you can return it if you end up not liking it!

Edit: about the firmware: I think it will take a little while because they just had Chinese new year and they all need to recover from their hangovers first! Remember Taiwan is some kind of China.

Dunno if possible with TME, i think they accept only broken goods refunds, anyway i usually keep what i purchase if it's working and in good shape.

They managed a second shipping with the scope today,  the parcel is on the way.

In the mean time i download everything related the SDG2000E GDS from GW website, IMHO the thing is very well documented, there are also certified Labview drivers, i will check them.

The published firmware is the version 1.20 (2015/11/17), if your beta FW is more recent as i think, i would be glad to ask you for your release 

[markone]

I have the scope i my hand a few hours, as first impression i would say : very good.

luckily no high pitch noise from internal PSU  ... but hummy FAN, i guess some far east cheapo model, it will not last long there 

It came with FW 1.06, i flashed it with FW 1.20 taken from GW web site,  the first thing i noticed is the UI responsivity,  almost real time, under this aspect it's way better than my Rigol DS1074Z, also the screen panel waveform update looks  smoother, especially with 1ms or slower time base and last but not the least, the autoset function is lighting fast and effective.

The lcd screen panel image put  to shame the DS1074Z : very sharp pixel, good color tone, good vision angle,  backlight intensity control (thank you very much GW), high readibility text fonts.

I can read most important settings (measures, time base, acquisition rate, acquisition number of point etc etc) at first glance with no more eyes sore, so my goal was achieved !

Yes, i can confirm Dave's impression, some scratchy control knobs (the smaller ones) but i can leave with it, i guess will get better after some break in.

The front panel style is sure not latest fashion but apart some odd text/backgroung coupling i consider it "fair".

UI wise i would change a couple of mechanisms but  it's a lot better than expected, the only real gripe is the absence of fine vertical amplitude scale adjustment.

It's my first GW Instek product, for the price seems good.

[Muxr]

UI wise i would change a couple of mechanisms but  it's a lot better than expected, the only real gripe is the absence of fine vertical amplitude scale adjustment.

Ugh, that could be a pretty big deficiency imo. Depending on how fine the default stepping is. I mean if it's similar to other scopes there is no way I could live without their fine adjustment. But hopefully GW-Instek at least accounts for this by having finer adjustments to begin with, this would mean a lot of knob spinning but it's better than the lack of resolution, because you can't fit the waveform on the screen perfectly.

As far as other stuff is concerned, doesn't sound too bad. Most scopes in that category have noisy fans. My DS2072a is audible as well, but not overly annoying. R&S on the other hand is dead silent, by comparison.

[markone]

Ugh, that could be a pretty big deficiency imo. Depending on how fine the default stepping is. I mean if it's similar to other scopes there is no way I could live without their fine adjustment. But hopefully GW-Instek at least accounts for this by having finer adjustments to begin with, this would mean a lot of knob spinning but it's better than the lack of resolution, because you can't fit the waveform on the screen perfectly.

It wasn't a surprise because i read twice the user manual before to pull the purchase trigger, personally i can live without, of course if they fix this in the exact way you described it would be better.
However i have other scopes, just in case.

The thing that  i really cannot live with (no more) is the DS1074Z screen low readability and under this aspect i got a huge improvement, anyway this is the main reason for this purchase.

As far as other stuff is concerned, doesn't sound too bad. Most scopes in that category have noisy fans. My DS2072a is audible as well, but not overly annoying. R&S on the other hand is dead silent, by comparison.

My Rigol's scope is clearly louder, here we have a different problem, the GDS207E's fan has the typical humming noise of low quality (or damaged) motor's shaft ball bearings / sleeve, but the cure is simple & cheap.

I still have to make a serious tests on this new toy, but as far as i saw things are quite promising.

[nctnico]

I don't think I have ever used variable vertical scaling. For me variable horizontal scaling would be much more important.

[markone]

I don't think I have ever used variable vertical scaling. For me variable horizontal scaling would be much more important.

I use it often when i want to maximize signal/noise ratio with math function, but as i already said, it's not a deal breaker for me.

Anyway one of the reason that lead me to buy this scope is the presence of Zynq SOC, i smell lot of potential, and the first touch seems to confirm that.

Take a look to this Xilinx presentation picture :

[wraper]

My Rigol's scope is clearly louder, here we have a different problem, the GDS207E's fan has the typical humming noise of low quality (or damaged) motor's shaft ball bearings / sleeve, but the cure is simple & cheap.

That not necessarily means cheap fan or damaged bearing. I guess you hear the buzz noise from the motor, many expensive fans suffer from it too. From my experience, Delta fans very often are just horrible in this aspect and they are not cheap at all.

[ebastler]

Anyway one of the reason that lead me to buy this scope is the presence of Zynq SOC, i smell lot of potential, and the first touch seems to confirm that.
Take a look to this Xilinx presentation picture :

Xilinx have actually published a brief "case study" flyer on the GW-Instek scopes:
http://www.xilinx.com/publications/prod_mktg/zynq7000/goodwill-casestudy.pdf

Although I don't think there is that much value and information in the case study, and in the presentation photo you shared. Not a big surprise that Xilinx thinks the Zync FPGAs are great 

[markone]

I know what you mean, but in this particular case i would vote for cheap or damaged.
Ball bearing fans last more than sleeve ones and have better perfomance, provided that you handle them properly, avoiding mechanical shocks that usually lead to this particular hum.

High power Delta fans produce a different, higher pitched, noise mainly due to high tourque ripple applied to motor's shaft, i have some experience with induction heating cooktop cooling device from made by them, much more powerfull than the inFamous Delta Black label cpu cooler fan.

I do not remember if in Dave's GW Instek tear down video appears the fan brand, but it was about a 1000B scope, the 2000E line is made in complete different way, take a look to the picture in attachment at my previous post, actually is the mainboard inside these new scopes.

[markone]

Although I don't think there is that much value and information in the case study, and in the presentation photo you shared. Not a big surprise that Xilinx thinks the Zync FPGAs are great 

Specs raw numbers are telling that, if you put the Zynq 7000 CPU computing power in straight comparison to what you find inside DSOs of the same price league you will find a huge difference.

Overview sheet in attachment.

[ebastler]

Specs raw numbers are telling that, if you put the Zynq 7000 CPU computing power in straight comparison to what you find inside DSOs of the same price league you will find a huge difference.

Overview sheet in attachment.

Hmm - so what, specifically, are the significant performance advantages over a 2-chip architecture using a conventional SoC and FPGA? The listed attributes all sound fine, but not qualitatively beyond what ARM SoCs and FPGAs would offer.  The one area where I would have expected a qualitative difference is described in rather sketchy terms in the spec sheet: "High-bandwidth connectivity ... between Processing System and Programmable Logic". Or is the Zynq mainly aiming at a price advantage over a 2-chip solution?

If someone has more information on Zynq vs. 2-chip architectures -- preferably from an independent source, not from Xilinx themselves -- I would appreciated a link. I dont want to put Xilinx or Zynq down; honestly trying to learn more!