How to promote an USB oscilloscope to individual engineers? I am the Loto instru

[gnuarm]

Jiangtao,

Do not be discouraged by many of the responses here. You have come to a forum full of engineers. Engineers do not know how to write politely and with consideration. They can be quite rude. However there is still good advice to be found in what they have written.

+1  !!!   

We don't mean to be rude, we're just drawn that way.

[gnuarm]

I think most engineers dislike USB scopes.  It's synonymous with cheap low end stuff and there's a lot to be said about physical knobs.  Accessibility, speed, familiarity, etc.  (except for Tektronix and Pico scope)

Not me.  I don't need equipment to set on my bench.  I need equipment I can tote with me, preferably in my computer bag to use where I go.  I've wanted a new scope for a few years now and I keep holding off because the units I'd like are more money that I'd like to pay.   Also, "want" and "need" are two different things.

[rsjsouza]

I watched the first movie and I can tell I am impressed with the performance of the waveform updates while also changing parameters and controls. This indicates to me the interface seems robust. The core functionality shown is similar to a segmented memory and an advantage over my Owon VDS1022I.

Regarding USB vs Bench scopes: working from home, the space in my home office desk is much more limited and I have been using the aforementioned VDS1022I to perform quick waveform captures - my only limitation is the oscilloscope's low bandwidth and lack of a deep memory, but its software is really robust and well made.

[zachik]

Jiangtao,

Is it possible to use your scope and logic analyzer with Pulse View open source software from Sigrok?
Also, for logic analyzer functionality - I do have to buy scope as well. Right?  (I am only interested in logic analyzer, since I already have a decent stand alone scope)

Thanks.

[jiangtao.lv]

What you said is right. We have focused our work on the functions and details of the host computer software. In the past year, a new version of the software will be released for free every month, so the software interface and functions seem to be there every time different. Our philosophy is more inclined to make the software free and powerful, and is not inclined to pursue high hardware indicators. This is related to our value concept and application scenario positioning.

[jiangtao.lv]

Jiangtao,

Is it possible to use your scope and logic analyzer with Pulse View open source software from Sigrok?
Also, for logic analyzer functionality - I do have to buy scope as well. Right?  (I am only interested in logic analyzer, since I already have a decent stand alone scope)

Thanks.

We actually open source the software interface of the oscilloscope, but we have not announced and supported it on the open source platform. We don't have enough energy to do this. However, I did see that the platform you mentioned has open source support for our equipment. Then no one contacted us to ask for open source materials, and I don't know how they support it. We did not refer to these open source rules when we developed it, so I guess the support is not good enough. It is true that our logic analyzer is only an accessory of the oscilloscope, the oscilloscope is the protagonist, and the logic analyzer cannot work independently. Frankly speaking, if we only use the logic analyzer, our product does not have any advantages. I think there are many in the market that are better than our logic analyzer, so we are not sure to separate it into a product.

[S. Petrukhin]

I'm a complete newcomer for overseas market.Any way of cooperation, I will seriously consider, such as writing promotional articles, acting as a sales agent, recommending it to other engineers,recommend retailers for me?

It looks nice!

But I only noticed the rising/falling edge trigger only. This is very poor, in digital measurements the trigger should be much more complicated.
For serious analog measurements, we don't see enough measurement resolution: the beam is very thin and clean - I don't think you managed to make such a quiet input, this is an indicator of low resolution, most likely.

As a result, you have some signal passing indicator. That's a lot on the market. What do you suggest is better?

Forgive the harshness, but the market is even more brutal. 

[jiangtao.lv]

[jiangtao.lv]

[jiangtao.lv]

I'm a complete newcomer for overseas market.Any way of cooperation, I will seriously consider, such as writing promotional articles, acting as a sales agent, recommending it to other engineers,recommend retailers for me?

It looks nice!

But I only noticed the rising/falling edge trigger only. This is very poor, in digital measurements the trigger should be much more complicated.
For serious analog measurements, we don't see enough measurement resolution: the beam is very thin and clean - I don't think you managed to make such a quiet input, this is an indicator of low resolution, most likely.

As a result, you have some signal passing indicator. That's a lot on the market. What do you suggest is better?

Forgive the harshness, but the market is even more brutal. 

Sorry for my English too, you lost me .I don't get it.Do you mean the trigger needs more modes ?or do you suggest it need higher sampling rate when triggering?

[S. Petrukhin]

I'm a complete newcomer for overseas market.Any way of cooperation, I will seriously consider, such as writing promotional articles, acting as a sales agent, recommending it to other engineers,recommend retailers for me?

It looks nice!

But I only noticed the rising/falling edge trigger only. This is very poor, in digital measurements the trigger should be much more complicated.
For serious analog measurements, we don't see enough measurement resolution: the beam is very thin and clean - I don't think you managed to make such a quiet input, this is an indicator of low resolution, most likely.

As a result, you have some signal passing indicator. That's a lot on the market. What do you suggest is better?

Forgive the harshness, but the market is even more brutal. 

Sorry for my English too, you lost me .I don't get it.Do you mean the trigger needs more modes ?or do you suggest it need higher sampling rate when triggering?

At a minimum, the trigger should be more complex than just a rising/falling edge. See the description of serious oscilloscopes. 

[wizard69]

Hello jiangtao.lv

Today is the first day I've heard of your products.   I'm in fact looking into some of your documentation as I type this.

Here are a some things that struck me right off the bat:

• You really need another place besides Facebook for USA support.   Many in this country refuse to have anything to do with Facebook due to their practices.   I'm not sure what would be the best avenue, but I will not be using Facebook.
• It would be nice to see Linux and MacOS support.
• I like that your home page {http://www.lotoins.com/} is light weight.   Home pages should download and display fast no matter the connection.   However it is pretty hard to find the technical details for your equipment.   As such each instrument listed on the home page should link to a page that covers the technical aspects of the device in question.  Right now I can't find enough detail to know how well any one instrument would work for me.   I realize resources are limited in a startup but you need more info for each instrument version or I simply missed the page that has the information.
• Thanks for being open about this product and its development.    Hopefully you can offer support to the open source communities and applications like Sigrok.   If nothing else SigRok runs on a lot of different OS's.
• Just an suggestion but there is a niche to fill for a USB O'scope that is fully isolated.    That means the USB connection and between inputs.
• I highly doubt I would use such hardware with a phone but with a table that would be a different story.   The best tablets on the market right now are made by Apple so seeing support for them might be nice.   On the other hand i'm not too happy with their Mifi program and policies so maybe not a good idea.   In any event iPad, with the USB-C ports offer a great place for high performance software.   Generally though I just carry around a laptop.

In any event some ideas.   I'm not in the market right at the moment I likely will not be a customer soon so I offer up the above ideas to help you get a perspective on what others think.

From what I can see these are more likely to be seen as and used as data acquisition devices rather than replacing a traditional O'scope.   That is OK as there is a huge market for such, however it would be nice to see a more complete scope offered up.    Complete in this sense means a front end that can handle much wider voltage ranges.

[jiangtao.lv]

Hello jiangtao.lv

Today is the first day I've heard of your products.   I'm in fact looking into some of your documentation as I type this.

Here are a some things that struck me right off the bat:

• You really need another place besides Facebook for USA support.   Many in this country refuse to have anything to do with Facebook due to their practices.   I'm not sure what would be the best avenue, but I will not be using Facebook.
• It would be nice to see Linux and MacOS support.
• I like that your home page {http://www.lotoins.com/} is light weight.   Home pages should download and display fast no matter the connection.   However it is pretty hard to find the technical details for your equipment.   As such each instrument listed on the home page should link to a page that covers the technical aspects of the device in question.  Right now I can't find enough detail to know how well any one instrument would work for me.   I realize resources are limited in a startup but you need more info for each instrument version or I simply missed the page that has the information.
• Thanks for being open about this product and its development.    Hopefully you can offer support to the open source communities and applications like Sigrok.   If nothing else SigRok runs on a lot of different OS's.
• Just an suggestion but there is a niche to fill for a USB O'scope that is fully isolated.    That means the USB connection and between inputs.
• I highly doubt I would use such hardware with a phone but with a table that would be a different story.   The best tablets on the market right now are made by Apple so seeing support for them might be nice.   On the other hand i'm not too happy with their Mifi program and policies so maybe not a good idea.   In any event iPad, with the USB-C ports offer a great place for high performance software.   Generally though I just carry around a laptop.

In any event some ideas.   I'm not in the market right at the moment I likely will not be a customer soon so I offer up the above ideas to help you get a perspective on what others think.

From what I can see these are more likely to be seen as and used as data acquisition devices rather than replacing a traditional O'scope.   That is OK as there is a huge market for such, however it would be nice to see a more complete scope offered up.    Complete in this sense means a front end that can handle much wider voltage ranges.

These are very practical and useful suggestions. I will seriously understand and improve these aspects. thank you very much.

[midix]

Wondering how OSCA02 and OSC2002 compare to Owon VDS1022I. Not by paper specs, but in real-world use, and when comparing only hardware properties and not the ones artificially boosted by a computer (having virtually unlimited memory).

(Prices with VAT in Europe).
Price-wise OSC2002 is about 125 EUR
OSCA02 and VDS1022I are both at about 100 EUR.
VDS1022 (non-I) is ~70 EUR.

Important: VDS1022I has USB isolation, which makes it more "fool-proof". OSCA02 / OSC2002 need a separate module for it, and it costs 40 EUR.

I see the old lotoins.com website is gone, the new address seems to be loto-ins.com. Not sure, why the branding was changed with that "-". The device images on AliExpress still show the old lotoins.com on them. And AliExpress Loto Instruments Store has more up-to-date product lists and images. loto-ins.com seems to be a bit abandoned in comparison.


I'm a hobbyist, working on occasional projects and repairs, and have no space to keep a proper bench scope on my table. Also, I have impaired vision, so an USB scope is a better choice for me because then I can zoom the image on the computer screen to make it easier for me to see.

A funny coincidence - jiangtao.lv ends with lv, which is a code for my country, Latvia

[yoga]

not sure, but over one year without an update is not what I was expecting after starting to read the whole topic cause I was on the edge of buying an Owon vds1022i and had hopped to get more information from your brand and products.
The only further thing I found out is the support by hscope on the android app side which is important for me.

It was a coincidence that I looked at the date of your last post here on february 19th of 2021 while we had 22nd when I read the whole discussion.

[Andrew_Debbie]

never mind.

[Andrew_Debbie]

Ahh - new website --> http://www.loto-ins.com/en/

Very much still around.  Hmm. 

[gnuarm]

What a horrible web site.  It is so hard to find anything useful. 

[yoga]

Now I went through the whole OSCA02 story and reviews. Some are good or even great regarding the modularity and the logic analyzer, but here   in the forum the owon 1022i is still ahead and OSCA02 had not even made it in a tear down or deeper investigation.

Considering the time I had to spend to simply get into the whole idea of modularity it was painful. The webpage is outdated or feels so.
The first real usefull source was the ali express shop site and of cause after digging into it the link to the google drive were you had to get the specification pdf with 21 pages of usefull content.

What a huge amount of confusion and model variants - an overkill for a newbie I guess.
1 year later and the whole mess of complexity has not been solved.

The idea to sell a product in a windows version and for additional 30€ an android edition is also a big deal breaker not telling the people what the really will get: the free hscope version or a licence one with all its glory ?

Not a single line and it adds more complication than value instead of simply doing what other have done before successfully: supporting hscope

I first got the hantek 6022BL and I plugged into the USB a 20 cent otg adapter (I always have in my wallet to use any USB device on my phone) and installed hscope: worked instantly and great , also got the first success with the calibration ports

But I had to sell it cause what I had not known was that the Hantek is fully missing the AC coupling

I would have gone for an osca L having the additional benefits like
* USB 2.0
* 72h data logger recording
* decoding UART/RS-232/485/422, I²C, CAN, SPI, LIN
* broader bandwith

but those come at the price of other limitations escpecially when compared with the Owon as mentioned by gyro and others like

- basic edge triggering only
- no galvanic isolation - if you purchase the add-on adapter, price? about 40€ I guess
- The LA capability could probably be bettered by a low cost ebay LA and Sigrok.
- more expensive in case galvanic isolation is needed
- nobody's done a teardown yet!
– Time range: 50 ns/div ~ 2 s/div (5 ns/div - 100 s/div VDS 1022)
– Input sensitivity 50 mV/div to 2 V/div (5 mV/div - 5V/div VDS1022)

I guees it needs more than just a nice and big hello to bring devices into the market.
Sad to see that the last year seems like a lost year cause hard to find any reviews and further details where the OSCA02 was outperforming others like the Owon. Hope you will get back some time with a slimmer approach than with an entry model where you need to become a doctor to figure out what you need and at which price point like the ali express site and your data sheets which also still have bugs visible for an amateur like me.

[vc12345679]

Ahh - new website --> http://www.loto-ins.com/en/

Very much still around.  Hmm.

It seems the team is actively updating the demo videos, on both BiliBili (42 videos this year so far) and YouTube (12 videos this year).

• https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr9ygLrA_3QIpBi6BMbGzqA/videos
• https://space.bilibili.com/473937206/video

[gnuarm]

Ahh - new website --> http://www.loto-ins.com/en/

Very much still around.  Hmm.

It seems the team is actively updating the demo videos, on both BiliBili (42 videos this year so far) and YouTube (12 videos this year).

• https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr9ygLrA_3QIpBi6BMbGzqA/videos
• https://space.bilibili.com/473937206/video

They need to update their web site so you can figure out what they sell without visiting a dozen, seriously slow web pages.  They have a sort of selection guide, but it doesn't include many of their models. 

This is what happens when engineers try to run a company.  No, if the engineers were running the company, the web site would be blindingly fast. 

This is what happens when Ferengis try to run a company. 

[midix]

I risked and got one. Now I regret it a bit because the software can be confusing and sometimes counterintuitive:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/pausing-and-inspecting-signals-on-usb-oscilloscopes/

Essentially, after you have captured a signal using a trigger, it feels like a teaser - the program clearly shows small thumbnails of something they have named PC cache with your signal barely recognizable there. Still, you just cannot click/zoom/navigate/whatever to access any of those captured frames in their full glory. There seems to be something tricky to access them, I'll ask their support about it.

I'm glad I didn't buy a more expensive model because that also would have the same software issues. I also experienced a few plot crashes - got a big red cross in the plot while everything else worked, and sometimes it gets stuck in the wrong voltage range showing 20V instead of 5V (switching divisions back & forth fixes the problem); and sometimes it shows I'm in preview mode while I'm actually in live mode. And also recording navigation is inconvenient, no way to pause or scrub the timeline forward/back to find the signal (but not sure if other scope software has this feature?).

[gnuarm]

Wow!  That sucks... 

I bought a Hantek scope once, for ~$80 I think.   I never got the software to even run!  I contacted the seller after finding no way to contact Hantek with a useful response.  They wrote back that they could not find where it had been delivered, seems the UPS ticket was corrupted or something.  So I got a full refund and the box went in the back of some drawer. 

I had a chance to dig into the design later on after others did a tear down and it pretty much was a piece of junk.  It had a logic analyzer and scope combo, but they weren't in any way a "combo" other than being in the same box.  They had entirely separate interfaces and no cross correlation. 

I'm glad I got my money back without a hassle and even saving me the frustration of finding out how unuseful it was.

[ataradov]

I would not say that this is unexpected. I have never seen a PC scope UI that did not suck. They are clearly implemented by programmers that don't actually use those tools. And apparently they are not acting on the user feedback.

The UI in the linked topic is a perfect example. Rotating knobs like this are a perfect example. If you see a PC scope UI with rotating knobs, you can rest assured it will suck.

[switchabl]

I actually quite like the software that comes with the Digilent Analog Discovery (Waveforms). And the PicoScope 7 preview I think has potential but still needs a lot of work.

But unfortunately that is the exception and not the rule. If you are going to buy a PC based instrument, it is always a good idea to try the software first, there is often a demo mode. If that is not possible, maybe look elsewhere.