Multimeter for college and personal projects.

[Ronny]

Hello everyone,

I have just registered in the forum. I am a Brazilian Electronics and Telecommunication Engineering student.

I have read the "NEWBIES PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING" post, but the problem is, how am I supposed to search for what I am going to ask?
I need a multimeter for college and personal projects, with the following specifications:

True RMS
Current AC/DC from 10A all the way down to uA (I really need precision here, really small currents sometimes)
Voltage (I would rather have good precision in really small voltages than high voltage capabilities)
Resistance (That satisfying continuity beep would be a nice add  ), and I also need precision here too, those <1ohm resistors drive me crazy sometimes.
Diode test
Frequency


Nice extras to have:
Capacitance with precision - The ones I have been using are terrible at measuring capacitance, to a point that I simply don't believe them anymore.
Temperature.
Auto range - Really would like this
Really thin probes (to read the values on an IC for example)
Aligator clips that screw on the probes - Really liked this feature on a multimeter I saw.

Anything else?


For what I am going to use it, a bench multimeter would be better. But at the moment I need to carry it in my backpack and use it in multiple places, so it must be handheld.
I am willing to pay as much as 400.00 US, but keep in mind that I am a broke college student. I did some conversions for you to have an Idea (based on minimum wage), for a Brazilian, spending one dollar is equivalent to an American spending 5.22. So yeah... seeing a Brazilian paying 400 dollars on a multimeter is the equivalent of seeing an American paying two thousand. But I saved money for that, no worries.
Shipping is not an issue, my brother is going to the US this month, and he is going to buy it for me. It would be nice to have recommendations from different places, I only know amazon (no problem in buying from there though).


Thank you very much! From a broke student in a broke country.

[Wytnucls]

Have a look at the Agilent (Keysight)  U1272A.

[rsjsouza]

Olá Ronny,

I feel your pain; I am brazilian as well and used to live stretched by the high import taxes, terrible exchange rate and inflation...

In my opinion you have two options:

If you want to shell out your entire budget, go for an Agilent U1272A - top-of-the-line DMM, in my opinion.

However, given that capacitance and low ohm resistance are two of your careabouts, you can think strategically and get a lower cost multimeter and a LCR meter.

If your brother will be in the US for a short period of time it is very risky to order from eBay, therefore I will only recommend things from Amazon.

For the meter, Brymens are highly recommended and unfortunately Amazon does not carry them. Although expensive, Greenlee is their brand in the US, and an interesting one is the Greenlee DM830, which is equivalent to a Brymen BM829S

A highly recommended LCR meter here in the forum is the DE-5000. Just be careful with the estimated arrival of this one, as it is imported from Japan.

Regarding the probes, you can always get something like these.

As I mentioned before, the reason I am giving Amazon links is that they are very clear in the delivery/shipping conditions and are very friendly towards international credit cards - not all retailers are like that. However, always double-check the processing and delivery times, as it is easy to miss those and have the items arrive after your return trip.

[Lightages]

Actually, in Brazil, your prices are very high for multimeters. Your importation taxes are also ridiculous. In my investigations, you pay 3 to 5 times more in your country for the same multimeters elsewhere.

I am the exclusive distributor for Brymen in South America, except for Brazil and Argentina. In Argentina the Brymen brand is re-branded as MiniPa. MiniPa also carries re-brands of Uni-Trend and Matech as far as I can see, but at highly inflated prices. One example: http://www.minipa.com.br/1/5/86-Minipa-Multimetros-Digitais-ET-2940

If you can import without too much tax, then our friend Franky (iloveelectronics) can ship you a top of the line Brymen BM869s for US $309.00 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM869s-Digital-Multimeter-500-000-count-Dual-Temp-AC-DC-TRMS-PC-Logging-/171272486755 when he gets them in stock. You cannot go wrong with this multimeter. You cannot also go wrong with what seems to be many people's favorite Brymen, the BM257s for $135 shipped to you. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM257s-Digital-Multimeter-6000-count-Brand-New-Fluke-alternative-/200922627340 It is much smaller and lighter for travel, but is still all most people need in a multimeter.

What if you want something else other than a Brymen? Well in the US you can get many different meters. Brymens are re-branded in the US by Greenlee. I would recommend the DM380 or DM860A. You can also get Brymen made meter from Extech in the MM series http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/extech/multimeters/mm570a.htm or by Amprobe as AM270, AM140, AM160 http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/amprobe/multimeters/am-160-a.htm . The Amprobe AM5x0 series are also nice as well as the Amprobes XR series such as : http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/amprobe/multimeters/37xra.htm

I would also recommend a Uni-Trend UT139C for $50 shipped from Franky, or from Amazon if you wish. It is a good overall multimeter with good safety and you won't cry if it gets stolen.

Want to spend that $400 US? Well there are Flukes: http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/fluke/dmm/87v.htm but the value is nowhere near as high as the Brymens, except you get a "lifetime"warranty whereas the Brymens have a 1 year warranty. I personally guarantee the Brymens I sell for 3 years in my territory.

Uni-Trend has also released a new multimeter that so far has impressed me for the money. The UT171A seems to be a very good buy and includes the PC interface and program at this price. I can't completely recommend it yet as I just got one but so far I am impressed.

So what would I recommend in the end?

#1. Brymen BM869s for $305 to your door, plus your government taxes
#2. Brymen BM257s for $135 to your door plus the government ripoff
#3. Uni-Tend UT139C for $50 to your door, plus the government

To buy from the US:
#1. Amprobe AM-160-A  for around $265
#1a. Fluke 87-5 for around $$360
#1b. Keysight/Agilent U1272A for $380
#2. Amprobe AM-270 for around $110


I guess I could go on, and I really can go on, but that is a good start. I think for your use that the BM257s would be perfect.

Slim probes for ICs? Well that you will need to buy separately as they all come with more general purpose probes.

[Marco]

Your importation taxes are also ridiculous.

This doesn't look any worse than over here in commie Europe. Sure, it's painful but it's a drop in a bucket compared to a 3x or 4x markup.

[rsjsouza]

Unless you pay someone to do all the import paperwork for Brazil's customs, where you end up benefiting from the lower (or sometimes zero) import taxes, buying direct from eBay and shipping via regular mail (or freight forwarder) means a high risk of being hit by 60% of import taxes plus 18% for local taxes. Also, the delay is ridiculously high - it can take months for the package to be freed. Obviously, this only happens if the package is caught by customs.

Unfortunately, paying someone to deal with the paperwork is usually only worth when you are importing more than $1k or $1.5k (I can't recall correctly the threshold we used at our office).

[pickle9000]

Holy crap!!! Makes me feel guilty complaining about a 3 week shipping time from China. We have some minor issues with shipping and taxes in Canada but that's warped.

[Ronny]

In my state (Minas Gerais), its 60% federal tax + 20% state tax + 6.5% financial tax. So 100 * 1.6 * 1.2 * 1.065 = 204.48.
But our minimum wage is 5 times smaller than the US's. So its like an American paying 1020 dollars.

Guys, this part of the message:

"Nice extras to have:
Capacitance with precision - The ones I have been using are terrible at measuring capacitance, to a point that I simply don't believe them anymore.
Temperature.
Auto range - Really would like this
Really thin probes (to read the values on an IC for example)
Aligator clips that screw on the probes - Really liked this feature on a multimeter I saw."

These are extras I would like to have, but don't need to have!

Wytnucls

Isn't the fluke 87 better and cheaper than this one?

rsjsouza
E ai cara?  I'll take a look at those, that's a lot of options 

Lightages
A lot of options too! Do you know if its easier to send that through the mercosul? Maybe I can buy that from south American suppliers. There is a whole university in shortage of reasonably priced equipment here!

[Ronny]

Olá Ronny,

I feel your pain; I am brazilian as well and used to live stretched by the high import taxes, terrible exchange rate and inflation...

In my opinion you have two options:

If you want to shell out your entire budget, go for an Agilent U1272A - top-of-the-line DMM, in my opinion.

However, given that capacitance and low ohm resistance are two of your careabouts, you can think strategically and get a lower cost multimeter and a LCR meter.

If your brother will be in the US for a short period of time it is very risky to order from eBay, therefore I will only recommend things from Amazon.

For the meter, Brymens are highly recommended and unfortunately Amazon does not carry them. Although expensive, Greenlee is their brand in the US, and an interesting one is the Greenlee DM830, which is equivalent to a Brymen BM829S

A highly recommended LCR meter here in the forum is the DE-5000. Just be careful with the estimated arrival of this one, as it is imported from Japan.

Regarding the probes, you can always get something like these.

As I mentioned before, the reason I am giving Amazon links is that they are very clear in the delivery/shipping conditions and are very friendly towards international credit cards - not all retailers are like that. However, always double-check the processing and delivery times, as it is easy to miss those and have the items arrive after your return trip.

Humm I have been thinking here. I think the LCR will not be good for me right now for some reasons. First, my brother will need to carry two products for me, instead of one, and he was already reluctant. Second, I will sacrifice quality in all other measurements because of capacitance. Third, I'll be carrying those around in my backpack, and it already has an HP50g on it  . It will be 3 bulky things in one backpack.

[Ronny]

Actually, in Brazil, your prices are very high for multimeters. Your importation taxes are also ridiculous. In my investigations, you pay 3 to 5 times more in your country for the same multimeters elsewhere.

I am the exclusive distributor for Brymen in South America, except for Brazil and Argentina. In Argentina the Brymen brand is re-branded as MiniPa. MiniPa also carries re-brands of Uni-Trend and Matech as far as I can see, but at highly inflated prices. One example: http://www.minipa.com.br/1/5/86-Minipa-Multimetros-Digitais-ET-2940

If you can import without too much tax, then our friend Franky (iloveelectronics) can ship you a top of the line Brymen BM869s for US $309.00 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM869s-Digital-Multimeter-500-000-count-Dual-Temp-AC-DC-TRMS-PC-Logging-/171272486755 when he gets them in stock. You cannot go wrong with this multimeter. You cannot also go wrong with what seems to be many people's favorite Brymen, the BM257s for $135 shipped to you. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM257s-Digital-Multimeter-6000-count-Brand-New-Fluke-alternative-/200922627340 It is much smaller and lighter for travel, but is still all most people need in a multimeter.

What if you want something else other than a Brymen? Well in the US you can get many different meters. Brymens are re-branded in the US by Greenlee. I would recommend the DM380 or DM860A. You can also get Brymen made meter from Extech in the MM series http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/extech/multimeters/mm570a.htm or by Amprobe as AM270, AM140, AM160 http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/amprobe/multimeters/am-160-a.htm . The Amprobe AM5x0 series are also nice as well as the Amprobes XR series such as : http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/amprobe/multimeters/37xra.htm

I would also recommend a Uni-Trend UT139C for $50 shipped from Franky, or from Amazon if you wish. It is a good overall multimeter with good safety and you won't cry if it gets stolen.

Want to spend that $400 US? Well there are Flukes: http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/fluke/dmm/87v.htm but the value is nowhere near as high as the Brymens, except you get a "lifetime"warranty whereas the Brymens have a 1 year warranty. I personally guarantee the Brymens I sell for 3 years in my territory.

Uni-Trend has also released a new multimeter that so far has impressed me for the money. The UT171A seems to be a very good buy and includes the PC interface and program at this price. I can't completely recommend it yet as I just got one but so far I am impressed.

So what would I recommend in the end?

#1. Brymen BM869s for $305 to your door, plus your government taxes
#2. Brymen BM257s for $135 to your door plus the government ripoff
#3. Uni-Tend UT139C for $50 to your door, plus the government

To buy from the US:
#1. Amprobe AM-160-A  for around $265
#1a. Fluke 87-5 for around $$360
#1b. Keysight/Agilent U1272A for $380
#2. Amprobe AM-270 for around $110


I guess I could go on, and I really can go on, but that is a good start. I think for your use that the BM257s would be perfect.

Slim probes for ICs? Well that you will need to buy separately as they all come with more general purpose probes.

There are Minipas and Flukes in the laboratories of my university. The Minipas have some serious quality issues, I don't know if that's a problem with the specific models we use, but I don't want to put my money on them.

I have been reading some stuff, and it seens to me that there's a little war going on between Fluke 87 guys and Agilent U1272A guys. What's your opinion on that?

[Lightages]

Like I said, Minipa is a mix of many different brands. If you get the Brymen re-brands then you are OK. If you get a Uni-T re-brand then it is a random chance they are OK. If you get a Mastech re-brand then in my opinion they are all crap.

If you can get your brother to buy an Keysight U1272A, or Fluke 87-5, or Greenlee DM860A, or an Amprobe AM-160A, Amprobe AM-270, Amprobe AM570, Amprobe XR37a, Extech MM570, or even a UT139C I don't think you will be disappointed.

I would love to see you get a BM869s or BM257s from Franky http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM257s-Digital-Multimeter-6000-count-Brand-New-Fluke-alternative-/200922627340 but the importation taxes will kill you.

[dadler]

Like I said, Minipa is a mix of many different brands. If you get the Brymen re-brands then you are OK. If you get a Uni-T re-brand then it is a random chance they are OK. If you get a Mastech re-brand then in my opinion they are all crap.

If you can get your brother to buy an Keysight U1272A, or Fluke 87-5, or Greenlee DM860A, or an Amprobe AM-160A, Amprobe AM-270, Amprobe AM570, Amprobe XR37a, Extech MM570, or even a UT139C I don't think you will be disappointed.

I would love to see you get a BM869s or BM257s from Franky http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM257s-Digital-Multimeter-6000-count-Brand-New-Fluke-alternative-/200922627340 but the importation taxes will kill you.

I've bought tons of stuff from Franky, but TME.eu seems to have better pricing on the Brymen stuff. Not sure on import fees Poland->Brazil though.

[Lightages]

Anything imported into Brazil will face doubling the price, or more!

[Smith]

Do these taxes count for second handed products too? I gues it would.

Well, I use the Fluke 87V both for personal and for profesional use. I love the speed acuracy quality and batery life. Only drawback is the standard AC mode in current measurements. 

Yes it costs a lot, but I got mine second handed good as new for 70% less. I trust my 87V every day, and I have had a lot of meters that I didnt trust.

[Ronny]

Do these taxes count for second handed products too? I gues it would.

Well, I use the Fluke 87V both for personal and for profesional use. I love the speed acuracy quality and batery life. Only drawback is the standard AC mode in current measurements. 

Yes it costs a lot, but I got mine second handed good as new for 70% less. I trust my 87V every day, and I have had a lot of meters that I didnt trust.

It depends, If it is a person to person transaction, normally the seller will say it is a 50 dollar gift and there will be no tax, if he doesn't there is taxes. If it is a store to person transaction the same taxes apply.

[Marco]

Unless you pay someone to do all the import paperwork for Brazil's customs, where you end up benefiting from the lower (or sometimes zero) import taxes, buying direct from eBay and shipping via regular mail (or freight forwarder) means a high risk of being hit by 60% of import taxes plus 18% for local taxes. Also, the delay is ridiculously high - it can take months for the package to be freed. Obviously, this only happens if the package is caught by customs.

Unfortunately, paying someone to deal with the paperwork is usually only worth when you are importing more than $1k or $1.5k (I can't recall correctly the threshold we used at our office).

Ah, that 60% on small shipments does suck. That still does not explain the insane prices for local distributors though, for shipments larger than 3000$ the normal much lower import duties should apply right? Is it just humongous layers of corruption? Or does someone come bust your kneecaps if you try to sell stuff at decent margins?

[rsjsouza]

Humm I have been thinking here. I think the LCR will not be good for me right now for some reasons. First, my brother will need to carry two products for me, instead of one, and he was already reluctant. Second, I will sacrifice quality in all other measurements because of capacitance. Third, I'll be carrying those around in my backpack, and it already has an HP50g on it  . It will be 3 bulky things in one backpack.

I understand why your brother is reluctant; you are probably not the only one asking for a favor, and luggage space is precious...

Therefore, it is a matter of choosing the DMM: you really can't go wrong with any option I sent before - both the Greenlee DM830A and the Agilent U1272A are excellent meters, with some advantages for the Agilent one. 

Regarding the 87V versus U1272A, I would say (and others would probably agree) that it is a difference between the age of each design: the 87V is an older but proven design that brings less features to the table but it comes with a lifetime warranty (although I am not 100% sure how it applies to non-officially imported products). The Agilent has more features (30k counts, dual display, PC connectivity for datalogging, etc.) but it has three years warranty. One big plus for the Agilent is the use of common AAA batteries, while the Fluke uses a 9V battery (these are expensive in Brazil).

All that said, try to convince your brother to at least bring the additional probes, you wouldn't regret!

[zaoka]

I would stay away from Agilent U1272A

Mine just developed new problem; no backlight. If I hit it a bit it starts working.
Aside from this, its capacitance measurement is terrible, display is dark with weak contrast, continuity buzzer is slow, it beeps every time you turn it or or awake from sleep mode.. this becomes annoying if you use it all day and every day.... buy Fluke or Hioki, dont waste your money.

[Lightages]

There have been some complaints about the U1272A here and around the web.

[mtdoc]

I'd second the recomendation of the Brymen 257.

If you want to go used, a "like new" Fluke 87-V can be found on eBay for $200-300. Given their proven reliability, if it's working well when you get it, it should last a lifetime, warranty or not.

[Fsck]

I'd second the recomendation of the Brymen 257.

If you want to go used, a "like new" Fluke 87-V can be found on eBay for $200-300. Given their proven reliability, if it's working well when you get it, it should last a lifetime, warranty or not.

I triple the 257 suggestion if you're a broke college student. one of the staples for affordable performance.
if you have to buy a new meter the 869 + datalog kit is a killer performer but will be a pain to get with the access + government taxes you describe.

personally for a single meter, I'd go for a used 87v for the autohold with a pack or two of spare fuses but again, your situation doesn't make a used meter a favorable choice unless you can score an american collaborator

[Ronny]

I have been reading some stuff, and it seems that there is a considerable amount of problems with the Agilent U1272A, and almost none with the Fluke 87v. Dave's review also favored the Fluke, and since it's cheaper I can get some extra probes for it. But... man that dual display function is good. So hard to choose.
Problem is, the way I am doing it, there will be no warranty, and if I get a messed up Agilent U1272A it's game over for me.
I will take a look at the Greenlee now. Never saw that brand before

But if I had to buy one right now, it would be the Fluke 87V. What do you guys think? I think the Agilent U1272A features are better, I am just afraid of it breaking on me.

[Ronny]

Do these taxes count for second handed products too? I gues it would.

Well, I use the Fluke 87V both for personal and for profesional use. I love the speed acuracy quality and batery life. Only drawback is the standard AC mode in current measurements. 

Yes it costs a lot, but I got mine second handed good as new for 70% less. I trust my 87V every day, and I have had a lot of meters that I didnt trust.

It depends, If it is a person to person transaction, normally the seller will say it is a 50 dollar gift and there will be no tax, if he doesn't there is taxes. If it is a store to person transaction the same taxes apply.

do person to person shipping always work? or it depends on the customs day to day moods?

It is totally random. Sometimes extremely expensive stuff goes by without taxes, sometimes 10 dollars stuff will be taxed as if it was a 100 dollar item.

[Lightages]

Greenlee is a long standing brand in the US. They are suppliers of all kinds of electrically related equipment and have a good reputation. Many of their multimeters are direct re-brands of Brymen models. The DM830 is a Brymen BM829 with a green holster and the Greenlee name printed on it. The DM860A is a Brymen BM869. With Greenlee you get a "lifetime"warranty. With Brymen direct you get 1 year.

I have seen enough reports of problems with the U1272A that I would not buy one. Actually I made the choice to buy a BM869s because of its features, build quality, and price. Especially when compared to the Fluke 87V it was much cheaper and much better featured. After buying one Brymen, I purchased a BM257 and then a BM525. After having these three in my hands for a while, I was impressed enough to ask Brymen for distributor rights for South America that wasn't already covered by someone else. So my opinion on Brymen came from experience and my recommendations come from that experience before I started selling them. IMHO, they represent a great value.

What do you get from the Fluke 87V that you don't get with a BM869s? You get a lifetime warranty, the Fluke reputation, 400 hour battery life, auto hold, faster peak hold,  and ?. If you are not going to get the lifetime warranty in Brazil because you smuggled it in from the US, then that doesn't count anymore. I am not sure that you still couldn't have the warranty by sending it back to the US.

What do you get from a BM869s over the 87V? 50,000/500,000 count, CATIV/1000V, dual temperature measurement, dual display, higher accuracy, dB measurment, and PC connection option. If you buy a Greenlee you get the lifetime warranty and all the features too.

[mtdoc]

I agree about the value of the Brymen's and love my 257. If i needed another high end meter the 869 would be at the top of my list. But if I knew i could only have one meter to last me the next 20 years it would be my Fluke 87-V (which i got in new condition on eBay for $200). Even without warranty, the thing the Fluke has over thr Brymens IMHO is a proven track record of multi-decade reliability. Brymen may get there but it's too soon to tell.