Author Topic: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?  (Read 1997 times)

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Offline Fungus

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2020, 03:41:06 pm »
Yes, the memory thingy is a gotcha.  It's the kind of thing computer programmers code into your computer that makes you guess what the correct answer is then it tells you you guessed wrong.  I fuckin hate that.

It's not as if it's random FFS.

If the 'solution' is to spend three times as much money, get a far less capable meter, with the annoying AC mode thing, then call me unconvinced.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 03:42:48 pm by Fungus »
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2020, 04:53:30 pm »
AC mode first is a safety feature to prevent:

1. Turn meter on volts.
2. Poke in socket. Hmm reads zero. Must be off.
3.




 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2020, 06:16:19 pm »
Fluke 8060A, Fluke 8024B, Fluke 87, 87V, Brymen BM22s

All have decent implementations of continuity. As for the rest, it’s a shit show.
You need to go out more. The examples I mentioned, as well as Wytnucls and Fungus, are very decent for this spec alone for 10~20 times less money.

Going to be honest but the 87/87V rotary selector implementation is the best. Better than the earlier flukes which had a similar guessing game.
I agree with you there 100%. Both the 87V and the 179 IMO are the best rotary switches I know.

But they’ve got that bloody awful feature which remembers which sub mode you’re in.

I find it very convenient. Certainly better than switching back to AC mode every time I breathe on the selector switch.
I agree with you regarding convenience, but the default AC mode on the 87V is only on the current ranges. It has segregated V~ and V= positions in the switch. I personally don't understand the fuss about default AC mode, but I rarely use current measurements anyways.

AC mode first is a safety feature to prevent:

1. Turn meter on volts.
2. Poke in socket. Hmm reads zero. Must be off.
As I mentioed above, this is not applicable to the voltage ranges on the 87V, so no s*** show.

On the systems I work, I cannot afford to rely on mechanical memory and defaults to measure things - disasters are costly. I better damn well pay close attention to the meter's screen and which range it is on before blindly believing the measurement. In that context, recalling the last mode used is very convenient for me.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 12:29:07 am by rsjsouza »
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2020, 07:01:22 pm »
AC mode first is a safety feature to prevent:

1. Turn meter on volts.
2. Poke in socket. Hmm reads zero. Must be off.
3.

It only does it in amps mode, so if you're poking it into a mains socket then you've got bigger problems.

PS: If you often find yourself selecting DC volts mode on your Fluke then maybe a dual-display Brymen is in order.  :-+
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 07:06:00 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline J-R

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2020, 07:42:12 am »
The U1461A has Auto AC/DC V, mV and uA/mA mode switch positions.  With the dual display enabled, you get the AC/DC auto detection on the primary display and AC+DC on the secondary.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2020, 10:20:28 am »
Still, there's some awful slow meters out there. Joe mentions an Amprobe that takes 150ms to respond.

Maybe the OP (now vanished) has one of those in which case almost anything would be an improvement.  :-DMM

 

Offline SolderSucker

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2020, 10:41:48 am »
Still, there's some awful slow meters out there. Joe mentions an Amprobe that takes 150ms to respond.

Maybe the OP (now vanished) has one of those in which case almost anything would be an improvement.  :-DMM

The OP is in fact still reading the very helpful replies with great interest and responding where required.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2020, 11:18:13 am »
Fluke meters are famous for their awesome continuity testers.

The Fluke 8060A had a response time of 10uS, it's all been downhill since then.

Otherwise, get a Fluke handheld.

Brand/price guarantees nothing. Fluke makes some slow ones, so does Brymen.
Well, I haven’t used a 101 or 17, so if they’re slow, I have to believe those saying it. But generally speaking, Fluke is famous for great continuity testers. At the bare minimum, I can confirm it’s true for the 87, 87V, 175, and 179.

I’m also not sure if the lab tests all accurately capture just how well the Fluke continuity works in practice. In the end, it seems to never beep when it shouldn’t, but also never fails to beep when it should, even when conditions aren’t ideal (like with corroded terminals or cheap probes with awful plating*). In contrast, for example, the Aneng AN8008 has a continuity tester that works awesomely with Probe Master probes, but is only “ok” with cheap probes.

*Fluke’s own probes aren’t actually thaaaat great in this regard. That they work great for continuity testing with Fluke meters is a testament to the meters’ circuitry and programming, not the probes themselves. A good way to compare probes is to use continuity on a meter with absolutely unlatched continuity tester and short the probes together: Probe Master will produce a silky smooth, perfect uninterrupted beep even with a light touch, while inferior probes will be scratchy unless pressed together tightly. (How tightly depends on the plating.)
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2020, 11:34:54 am »
Fluke meters are famous for their awesome continuity testers.

The Fluke 8060A had a response time of 10uS, it's all been downhill since then.

Otherwise, get a Fluke handheld.

Brand/price guarantees nothing. Fluke makes some slow ones, so does Brymen.
Well, I haven’t used a 101 or 17, so if they’re slow, I have to believe those saying it. But generally speaking, Fluke is famous for great continuity testers. At the bare minimum, I can confirm it’s true for the 87, 87V, 175, and 179.

I’m also not sure if the lab tests all accurately capture just how well the Fluke continuity works in practice. In the end, it seems to never beep when it shouldn’t, but also never fails to beep when it should, even when conditions aren’t ideal (like with corroded terminals or cheap probes with awful plating*). In contrast, for example, the Aneng AN8008 has a continuity tester that works awesomely with Probe Master probes, but is only “ok” with cheap probes.

*Fluke’s own probes aren’t actually thaaaat great in this regard. That they work great for continuity testing with Fluke meters is a testament to the meters’ circuitry and programming, not the probes themselves. A good way to compare probes is to use continuity on a meter with absolutely unlatched continuity tester and short the probes together: Probe Master will produce a silky smooth, perfect uninterrupted beep even with a light touch, while inferior probes will be scratchy unless pressed together tightly. (How tightly depends on the plating.)

If the 87V represents the best there is to offer (which is an opinion not shared with guy who made that video showing their home made setup) , I still have that fairly new one that I had purchased to benchmark.  It's still 100% functional.   I can measure it and we can get a feel for what you feel is the best in class.

If you feel there are other characteristics I should have been measuring, feel free to provide them.  The only reason I started to measure them was after seeing  Dave and others touching leads, it seemed like a EE would do better.  There's just too many errors.

Another thing the OP could do is measure the pulse times they see with a scope, using their drag method, or what ever it is they are doing that is causing them to need an immediate response.   I'm pretty old and slow now so the 150ms Amprobe may be fine for me.    :-DD   Maybe just take what ever packages you use and measure the times with a scope.  Maybe try some different techniques. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2020, 11:40:36 am »
The OP is in fact still reading the very helpful replies with great interest and responding where required.

So... what meter are you currently using?
 

Offline SolderSucker

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2020, 11:53:24 am »
The OP is in fact still reading the very helpful replies with great interest and responding where required.

So... what meter are you currently using?

Extech EX330.

It's been getting increasingly erratic over the past few months and I've spent a lot of time reading up about troubleshooting it, etc - unfortunately despite cleaning the contacts, checking for bad components, etc I've not got anywhere.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2020, 11:55:19 am »
AC mode first is a safety feature to prevent:

1. Turn meter on volts.
2. Poke in socket. Hmm reads zero. Must be off.
3.

I get what you are trying to say.   At least for me the name, "EEVBlog Electronics Community Forum"  instills a vision of low energy circuits, normally below a couple of KV.   If it were the "... Industrial Electrical Community ...",  I may be more inclinded to think about safety.   I also envision that people involved with electronics are far more capable of working with complicated test equipment than an electrical worker. 

The two meters I use (Brymen BM869s and Fluke 189) both have separate ACV and DCV positions.  A good example for you would be Dave's 121GW.  It has a single position for both and it also remembers the last settings selected.  Personally, after having used this feature for a few years now, I really like it.  Brymen offers an automotive meter, and they only support storing the settings for certain features.   It's really a shame as I would only use it with a particular setup and of course, it differs from the default.  So every time to use it, you have to change the settings.   Really an odd thing.     
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2020, 12:08:43 pm »
Well, I haven’t used a 101 or 17, so if they’re slow, I have to believe those saying it.

It's true! Noticeably slower then my Aneng.

But generally speaking, Fluke is famous for great continuity testers. At the bare minimum, I can confirm it’s true for the 87, 87V, 175, and 179.

They're made a lot more meters than that. eg. My Fluke 27 came after the 8060A and is much slower then even the 101.

My Aneng 860B+ is quite hard to fool in the "bang the probes together" test with gold plated probes (probes do make a difference to this). My Brymen seems unfoolable.

My Brymen is rated at 0.1mS. Joe's measurements were 1ms for the Aneng (Kasuntest KT6000 in his sheet) and 40ms for the Fluke 101.

That gives you an idea of what sort of response time is needed.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2020, 12:18:18 pm »
If the 87V represents the best there is to offer (which is an opinion not shared with guy who made that video showing their home made setup) , I still have that fairly new one that I had purchased to benchmark.  It's still 100% functional.   I can measure it and we can get a feel for what you feel is the best in class.

If you feel there are other characteristics I should have been measuring, feel free to provide them.  The only reason I started to measure them was after seeing  Dave and others touching leads, it seemed like a EE would do better.  There's just too many errors.
Indeed, I think it also depends on the application. The guy in the video disliked the 87V’s 50 ohm threshold, which I suspect is part of why that meter works well even with terrible probes. When tracing wires and other situations where what you’re excluding is open connections, that works great. But I can see how if you’re using it to search for dead shorts on a PCB with components on it, 50 ohms might be an issue if alternative paths appear that aren’t dead shorts but are below that threshold. (I suppose this is a good time to remind folks that the 87V, like essentially all Fluke handheld meters, is designed much more with electrician use in mind than electronics.)

I love the continuity in my Keithley 2015: when you enter continuity mode, it first has you set the threshold. (The default is 10 ohms IIRC.)

One other continuity feature to test: As I understand it from the manual, the 87V and similar Flukes not only test continuity, but discontinuity, too, in that if you’re testing a normally closed circuit and there’s a tiny transient open, it’ll also latch that and silence the beep long enough to hear it. (The manual expressly says it will catch “opens and shorts lasting as little as 1ms”, and obviously the latched beeper latches for way longer than 1ms, so it’d have to latch the opens, too. Very informal testing by whacking the only momentary SPDT switch I have seems to confirm this behavior. My Keysight U1252B has it too, but the Keithley 2015 and Aneng AN8008’s latching continuity latches right over the intermittent opens.)
 

Offline Miti

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2020, 12:24:52 pm »
I'm very pleased with my Fluke 179 speed.
That big spark at power up was by design!
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2020, 01:39:41 pm »
Well, I haven’t used a 101 or 17, so if they’re slow, I have to believe those saying it.

It's true! Noticeably slower then my Aneng.
Eww, gross! :(


But generally speaking, Fluke is famous for great continuity testers. At the bare minimum, I can confirm it’s true for the 87, 87V, 175, and 179.

They're made a lot more meters than that. eg. My Fluke 27 came after the 8060A and is much slower then even the 101.
Well sure they have. But with the apparent exception of the 101 (and other 100 series), and 12E/15B/15B+/17B/17B+/18B+, all of the halfway recent models have great continuity, with most being specced at 1ms, and some (like the 110 series and 280 series) at 500μs. (The Fluke 10 series, except for the 12E/15B/15B+/17B/17B+/18B+, are even specced at 250μs.) While randomly choosing manuals to look at, it stuck out to me that on models with good continuity, Fluke specifies the response time, while in those with not so good response time, they just don’t state it at all!

I still think it’s fair to say that Fluke now has a reputation for good continuity, even if there are apparently a number of models that don’t actually fulfill it. All of the current models with slow continuity appear to be inexpensive Asia-only models. All the worldwide models have the fast continuity. You have to go back quite a few years to find a worldwide model with slow continuity.

My Aneng 860B+ is quite hard to fool in the "bang the probes together" test with gold plated probes (probes do make a difference to this). My Brymen seems unfoolable.

My Brymen is rated at 0.1mS. Joe's measurements were 1ms for the Aneng (Kasuntest KT6000 in his sheet) and 40ms for the Fluke 101.

That gives you an idea of what sort of response time is needed.
Aye. While there is no excuse for slow continuity IMHO, I wonder if the reason we don’t see very many meters with response times below, say, half a ms, is to filter spurious beeps or bounce or something?

I wonder if there are any projects out there for latched continuity testers that do both intermittent shorts and opens, and what timing parameters and behaviors they chose? (The “ultimate” continuity tester in that video is not latched, and would be great for some uses but terrible for others, I’d think.)


(FWIW, I never said there weren’t other meters with good continuity. There absolutely are! I’ve been considering grabbing an AN860 just to check it out, since it seems to perform very well on tests and my experience with the AN8008 has been mostly positive, too.)
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2020, 01:44:40 pm »
If the 87V represents the best there is to offer (which is an opinion not shared with guy who made that video showing their home made setup) , I still have that fairly new one that I had purchased to benchmark.  It's still 100% functional.   I can measure it and we can get a feel for what you feel is the best in class.

If you feel there are other characteristics I should have been measuring, feel free to provide them.  The only reason I started to measure them was after seeing  Dave and others touching leads, it seemed like a EE would do better.  There's just too many errors.
Oh yeah, I should add that to me, the 87V’s continuity is great in that it seems to strike a good balance between being highly sensitive and responsive, yet tolerant of non-ideal conditions, without producing spurious signals, etc. The guy in the video clearly has very different priorities (the need for which he doesn’t go into in too much detail) that differ from mine (and, I suppose, of many people, give how most multimeters are designed).
 

Online AVGresponding

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2020, 08:23:57 pm »
Fluke 8060A, Fluke 8024B, Fluke 87, 87V, Brymen BM22s

All have decent implementations of continuity. As for the rest, it’s a shit show.

Edit: 8060A and 8024b are by far the best I’ve used.

My UT139C is almost as fast as my 87V.

Gonna fly the flag here (really, moi?) and also recommend some nice vintage Black Star meters, 32XX series. I have a 3210MP (mains Powered) and a 3225, both are pretty good.

My worst meter for continuity is my Mastech 2108A, it's almost inaudible in anything except a silent environment. Luckily I only need it for the current clampiness.
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2020, 01:38:44 am »
If the 87V represents the best there is to offer (which is an opinion not shared with guy who made that video showing their home made setup) , I still have that fairly new one that I had purchased to benchmark.  It's still 100% functional.   I can measure it and we can get a feel for what you feel is the best in class.

If you feel there are other characteristics I should have been measuring, feel free to provide them.  The only reason I started to measure them was after seeing  Dave and others touching leads, it seemed like a EE would do better.  There's just too many errors.
Indeed, I think it also depends on the application. The guy in the video disliked the 87V’s 50 ohm threshold, which I suspect is part of why that meter works well even with terrible probes. When tracing wires and other situations where what you’re excluding is open connections, that works great. But I can see how if you’re using it to search for dead shorts on a PCB with components on it, 50 ohms might be an issue if alternative paths appear that aren’t dead shorts but are below that threshold. (I suppose this is a good time to remind folks that the 87V, like essentially all Fluke handheld meters, is designed much more with electrician use in mind than electronics.)

I love the continuity in my Keithley 2015: when you enter continuity mode, it first has you set the threshold. (The default is 10 ohms IIRC.)

One other continuity feature to test: As I understand it from the manual, the 87V and similar Flukes not only test continuity, but discontinuity, too, in that if you’re testing a normally closed circuit and there’s a tiny transient open, it’ll also latch that and silence the beep long enough to hear it. (The manual expressly says it will catch “opens and shorts lasting as little as 1ms”, and obviously the latched beeper latches for way longer than 1ms, so it’d have to latch the opens, too. Very informal testing by whacking the only momentary SPDT switch I have seems to confirm this behavior. My Keysight U1252B has it too, but the Keithley 2015 and Aneng AN8008’s latching continuity latches right over the intermittent opens.)

Short resistance: 52 ohms
Open resistance: 94 ohms
Open circuit voltage: 7.325V
Short circuit current: 1.0025ma
Max freq at 50% DC: 3.9Hz 
Min pulse width at 2Hz: 1.5ms
Detecting an open circuit appears a bit faster.  It would still pick it up at 1ms.   

IMO, these numbers IMO are fine, plus it's latching if you like that sort of feature. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline SolderSucker

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2020, 09:31:07 am »
Update: thanks to all of the recommendations and advice in this thread I decided to buy the UNI-T UT139C (I just couldn't afford a decent Fluke) - the 139C is great, very quick on the continuity response time. My only minor criticism (which I knew about before I bought it) is that the continuity buzzer continues to beep for a fraction of a second after a probe is removed from whatever is being tested. So far that's not been a major problem.
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2020, 12:09:48 pm »
Congratulations on your purchase! The UT139C is an excellent meter.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline indman

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2020, 12:30:10 pm »
Now in the official store on Ali, they began to sell another revision UT139C of the board with a processor in the form of a blob and bad layout of the board. Sаfety has deteriorated. Keep this in mind.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 12:58:21 pm by indman »
 

Offline SolderSucker

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2020, 12:35:11 pm »
Now in the official store on Ali, they began to sell another revision UT139C of the board with a processor in the form of a blob and bad layout of the board. Security has deteriorated. Keep this in mind.

Useful to know, thanks. I got mine from Amazon UK so I guess it's 'older' stock. I guess I could take it apart and have a look but not right now ......... :)
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2020, 01:41:24 pm »
Now in the official store on Ali, they began to sell another revision UT139C of the board with a processor in the form of a blob and bad layout of the board. Sаfety has deteriorated. Keep this in mind.

... and THIS is the problem with Uni-T. You never know what's going to be inside one.
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Multimeter with continuity test buzzer that responds immediately ?
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2020, 02:14:35 pm »
Yep. They sell different versions in different markets as well. For example the classic UT61E. There was a european market version with proper protection that was £120 or so. The non European market one was £25. Of course everyone shut their eyes and imported the cheap ones on ebay and amazon and the CE certifiable ones had too much competition thus were restocked.

It's a race to the bottom that ends in your personal safety suffering.
 


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