new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004

[Darkover]

Ouch!  That hurts!    We actually get a lot of nice feedback about the scope form factor / physical design.

At least for the RTB I can say it is very easy and convenient to open and to remove the mainboard, which
is a must have for a design that need physical soldering skills. So the board is well done and not bloody anymore.

Olaf

[Fenstergucker]

I found this Python program: RTB2000-Oscilloscope-Control
https://github.com/hungrd87/RTB2000-Oscilloscope-Control

I was able to start it on a Raspberry Pi 500 (Debian 13, Trixie). However, it responds very slowly, every minute. My RTB2000 was automatically recognized, the values from channel 1 were read correctly, but no waveform was displayed. There are constant error messages in the terminal.

Maybe the program works for someone else, it looks pretty good.

Peter

[Hydron]

I've been meaning to try and get ngscopeclient working with the RTB2000, that would be a proper setup for using it with a PC!

[Fenstergucker]

I've been meaning to try and get ngscopeclient working with the RTB2000, that would be a proper setup for using it with a PC!

Thanks for reminding me about ngscopeclient. It took 15 minutes to install dependencies, 25 minutes to compile, and the program works with the Raspberry Pi 500. It starts up very quickly.

Peter

[Hydron]

Did it work out of the box with the RTB2k? Maybe things have changed since I last looked at it (quite some time ago, when it had a different name!)

[Fenstergucker]

I am having problems with the program. The demo oscilloscope does not work; the program freezes. Only R&S RTE and RTM models are supported in the source code. I don't know if it works with the RTB2000. Connecting to LXI causes a crash, and nothing happens with LAN RAW-SCPI. The SCPI console works with the RTB2000. It doesn't look too good at the moment.

Edit:
I assume that the GPU of the Raspberry Pi 500 is not fully 'vulkan' compatible. The program freezes when creating the demo oscilloscope signal ‘PRBS3’.

Code: [Select]

File: TestWaveformSource::DegradeSerialData()
Line: 423
//Set up new FFT plans
if(!m_vkForwardPlan)
m_vkForwardPlan = make_unique<VulkanFFTPlan>(npoints, nouts, VulkanFFTPlan::DIRECTION_FORWARD);
if(!m_vkReversePlan)
m_vkReversePlan = make_unique<VulkanFFTPlan>(npoints, nouts, VulkanFFTPlan::DIRECTION_REVERSE);

Edit 2:
With the environment variable, I was able to select software emulation instead of the GPU, and the program works with the demo oscilloscope. But the CPU is consistently at 100%.

Code: [Select]

$ SCOPEHAL_VULKAN_DEVICE_OVERRIDE=1 ngscopeclient

Peter

[balun]

Talking about contests here, this new R&S scope at least wins one price: Ugliest scope of the century

Ouch!  That hurts!    We actually get a lot of nice feedback about the scope form factor / physical design.

All employer-required cheerleading / competition-bashing aside:  the Keysight HD3 is much uglier than any of our scopes 

And why R&S hiding the documentation and firmware for this good-looking scope?
R&S is a typical arrogant Bavarian company that thinks it doesn't need private users, but these are precisely the people who bring R&S into other companies.

Rajko

[MikeP]

Hi everyone,

It’s been a while since I was active here, but I really need the community's help.

My R&S RTB2004 is bricked. The unit won't boot and just hangs on a blue screen. During one of the boot attempts, it managed to display an error message before freezing:

"FPGA configuration failed" Error code: 13-2 1:1

I have two questions:

Does anyone know what error 13-2 1:1 actually signifies? What other issues could this imply? Is there a chance to restore this with my own hands?

Can anyone recommend a third-party repair service (I am located in Germany) that accepts repair requests from private individuals? In addition, please inform me about the possible cost of repairs.

I would be grateful for any advice or contacts. I really don't want to scrap this scope.

Thanks!

[salomonander]

And again im looking for a function that i dont know if it even exists…
I need to calibrate the symmetry of some amps. These trim pots set how the waveform distorts in relation to the low and high peaks of a sinus.
Im doing this by eyesight… but im wondering if there is a function that could help me to approach this more accurately? Some way to show how much the high and low part of a sinus correlate.

[exe]

And again im looking for a function that i dont know if it even exists…
I need to calibrate the symmetry of some amps. These trim pots set how the waveform distorts in relation to the low and high peaks of a sinus.
Im doing this by eyesight… but im wondering if there is a function that could help me to approach this more accurately? Some way to show how much the high and low part of a sinus correlate.

Uhm, "Positive peak value" and "Negative peak value"? I don't have this scope, just eyeballing the manual: https://www.batronix.com/pdf/Rohde-Schwarz/RTB2000/RTB_UserManual_en.pdf ("7.1 Quick Measurements").

[salomonander]

Thanks exe,
Ill give it a try. I guess i could also connect a distortion meter and adjust for the lowest value?

[exe]

I don't know much about distortion meters, however, here is another approach if you need to "center" the waveform. You can just measure DC offset. All it takes is a low-pass filter (resistor + capacitor) and a precise jfet opamp (e.g., opa140). Actually, this can be more accurate then the scope as the scope is only 10-bit and has own offsets. Just make sure capacitor leakage doesn't ruin it.

[Darkover]

Perhaps you have seen that my scope is working again. So I used the moment and also installed
a matte/frosted screen guard on my RTB.  https://techgear.co.uk/

That is a huge improvement! The screen is not a mirror anymore!
It looks now double so expensive. 

Now I have to think about a complicate x-mas developing project to use the new an shiny scope.

Olaf

[KaneTW]

Talking about contests here, this new R&S scope at least wins one price: Ugliest scope of the century

Ouch!  That hurts!    We actually get a lot of nice feedback about the scope form factor / physical design.

All employer-required cheerleading / competition-bashing aside:  the Keysight HD3 is much uglier than any of our scopes 

And why R&S hiding the documentation and firmware for this good-looking scope?
R&S is a typical arrogant Bavarian company that thinks it doesn't need private users, but these are precisely the people who bring R&S into other companies.

Rajko

I don't agree. What gets sales is presales support and demos, i.e. you want to know how well the scope works with your application/workflow. R&S has always been very quick about providing demos and demo units to a corporate client.

[pdenisowski]

What gets sales is presales support and demos, i.e. you want to know how well the scope works with your application/workflow. R&S has always been very quick about providing demos and demo units to a corporate client.

Speaking as someone who has done close to a thousand in-person customer demos and support visits, this is very, very true 🙂

[Hydron]

Any chance of a comment on the front-end PGA issue that's been discussed here and I've PM'd you about? I'm sure corporate customers would also appreciate knowing about the danger of front-end failure when the scope is used within datasheet specs.

[Darkover]

Any chance of a comment on the front-end PGA issue that's been discussed here and I've PM'd you about? I'm sure corporate customers would also appreciate knowing about the danger of front-end failure when the scope is used within datasheet specs.

I second that!

Olaf

[Xyphro]

And I "third" that 🤣

[Robaroni]

What gets sales is presales support and demos, i.e. you want to know how well the scope works with your application/workflow. R&S has always been very quick about providing demos and demo units to a corporate client.

Speaking as someone who has done close to a thousand in-person customer demos and support visits, this is very, very true 🙂

Corporate instrument?

No problem, small potato engineers like me will go to China. When the frontend on my R&S dies that's where my next scope is coming from.

[pdenisowski]

Speaking as someone who has done close to a thousand in-person customer demos and support visits, this is very, very true 🙂

Corporate instrument?

If you mean were those demonstrations of test and measurement instruments from large manufacturers, then yes.  I was a field applications engineer for both HP/Agilent (now Keysight) and Rohde and Schwarz for over a decade each.  I've been working in T&M for almost 30 years

[pdenisowski]

Any chance of a comment on the front-end PGA issue that's been discussed here and I've PM'd you about? I'm sure corporate customers would also appreciate knowing about the danger of front-end failure when the scope is used within datasheet specs.

Sorry, somehow missed the PM during the Thanksgiving / Christmas period here - I'll ask the product line and see what I can find out, but I assume most people (myself included ) are out of the office until the new year.

Has a support case (not a repair inquiry) been opened on this issue / question?  That's the best way to get an "official" answer regarding any questions or issues.

Semi-anecdotally, I have been working for R&S since the RTB was released and I have never heard of this issue, either internally or externally, before, so thank you for letting me know.

[Robaroni]

Speaking as someone who has done close to a thousand in-person customer demos and support visits, this is very, very true 🙂

Corporate instrument?

If you mean were those demonstrations of test and measurement instruments from large manufacturers, then yes.  I was a field applications engineer for both HP/Agilent (now Keysight) and Rohde and Schwarz for over a decade each.  I've been working in T&M for almost 30 years

I went from Tektronix to R&S, sorry I did, Tektronix treated me a lot better AND it was a more dependable instrument. When I had a problem with my R&S scope they basically told me to get lost.
In fact, I just bought a Keithley bench meter, much better support and even offered to write scripts for my individual applications. GW Instek also treated me a lot better than R&S.

Horrible company, wouldn't buy a pretzel from them ever again. Have fun sitting around your board rooms trying to figure out how to survive China. My guess? You won't!

[hotze]

Right, it feels like smaller customers just aren't on the radar anymore; and even basic feedback or inquiries often seem to vanish into a black hole (I've had that myself, too). Going forward, I'll have to start looking elsewhere for dependable alternatives; though to be fair, at least a bright spot has appeared in Germany.

[Martin72]

However, the bright spot also has only one product and can therefore concentrate on it.

In addition, when manufacturers such as R&S typically equip entire companies with their products, they may not have much time to address the concerns of private individuals in a timely manner.
I don't want to sugarcoat it. I experienced this myself when I wrote to R&S as a private individual and heard nothing. Later, I wrote from work using my official signature as test field manager, and I received a reply within two days.
But this is to be expected, as the support is not intended for private end users.
And the “low-cost series” RTB that was released was also not intended for private use, even if some well-heeled hobbyists could/can afford such a scope.
One could then say, OK, then only offer it to professionals, take your devices out of the stores where private customers can also buy them.
Of course, that won't happen.
Keysight is the same; anyone can buy their products—but as a private individual, you have to accept that their products are not intended for you and therefore you will not receive any support.
That was honest and direct, and as a result, I will not be buying anything else from them.
I am satisfied with Siglent and Batronix, and that is enough for me.

And as for this front-end thing:
I haven't read everything, but I have a pretty good idea how this will turn out.

[hotze]

[..]
I experienced this myself when I wrote to R&S as a private individual and heard nothing. Later, I wrote from work using my official signature as test field manager, and I received a reply within two days.
But this is to be expected, as the support is not intended for private end users.
[..]

In my experience, they don't even care if someone points out an error in a document and doesn't even want anything from them