New Siglent SDM4000A series Multimeter

[KungFuJosh]

Continuity is great on the 3000X models. I don't think they'd make it worse for a 4000A model. 🤷

[nctnico]

Continuity is great on the 3000X models.

No it isn't. It is way too slow for me.

Oh Nico, for me that would be the last thing a precision measuring device should be able to do.
There are cheap alternatives for that.

But then I'd need two devices on the bench for a function which both have. That makes no sense.

[skander36]

Continuity is great on the 3000X models. I don't think they'd make it worse for a 4000A model. 🤷

Actually is slower than on Keysight 34465A and Keithley DMM6500. Keithley is quite fast visually but the sound is lagging behind. On Keysight is opposite.
But for this task I'm always use a handheld DMM, not a bench one.

[Furna]

Will hopefully get a little time with one next week while visiting Siglent HQ.

Please share as much as you can. Not only about the multimeter but also about the Siglent HQ.

[KungFuJosh]

Continuity is basically instant for me. It works great, for me. I guess if you need it to tell the future, then that's another story. 🤣

Then again, I use gold-plated ProbeMaster probes, and as our dear friend Dave pointed out, the probes make a huge difference with continuity speed.

[Martin72]

Probemaster tips are the best I know so far and I know some of them by principle.

[KungFuJosh]

I made a quick/lazy demo:

There's a small fraction of a second between the sound of the tips clicking together, and the beep from the DMMs. It's barely perceivable.

[nctnico]

That delay is long enough for me to get bored / annoyed. Seriously.

[KungFuJosh]

That delay is long enough for me to get bored / annoyed. Seriously.

 

Show us your faster continuity tester!

[skander36]

That delay is long enough for me to get bored / annoyed. Seriously.

Exactly. This is slow.

[KungFuJosh]

Exactly. This is slow.

Show us your faster continuity tester!

I see talk, but no proof. 😉😉

[Martin72]

You don't know anything either, do you?
It has to beep before you touch it, otherwise it's no good.

[tautech]

Continuity speed/performance is not subjective but entirely quantifiable with just a AWG.

SDM3000 range tests from a little over a year ago and methodology thanks to Joe Smith:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4840136/#msg4840136

Discussion is not required but real repeatable data is......   
 

[KungFuJosh]

You don't know anything either, do you?
It has to beep before you touch it, otherwise it's no good.

Hey, I already mentioned continuity testers that can tell the future! 🤣

[bateau020]

So to give some numbers about continuity beep minimum contact period of some of my meters:
(hand)  Fluke 179:             0.2ms
(bench) Keithley DMM6500:  3ms
(hand)  Uni-T UT123T:        13ms
(hand)  eevblog 121GW:     40ms
(bench) Siglent SDM3055:  50ms
(bench) Keysight 34465A: 400ms

So, yes, handheld is normally faster, but there are exceptions.

[nctnico]

That delay is long enough for me to get bored / annoyed. Seriously.

 

Show us your faster continuity tester!

You can ofcourse try to make fun out of pure fanboyism but the way the continuity works on many bench DMMs is just too slow for what I use continuity for. Not only when measuring continuity between two points (for which I take 3 quick measurements). When doing reverse engineering I swipe a probe across a row of contacts quickly. That just won't work when there is a delay due to software defined continuity.

[KungFuJosh]

You can ofcourse try to make fun out of pure fanboyism but the way the continuity works on many bench DMMs is just too slow for what I use continuity for. Not only when measuring continuity between two points (for which I take 3 quick measurements). When doing reverse engineering I swipe a probe across a row of contacts quickly. That just won't work when there is a delay due to software defined continuity.

I'm not making fun at all! It's just funny to me when people say ~30ms is slow. I get that some handhelds are faster, but I've never found anything in the sub-50ms range to feel slow. But also, a lot of people say it's slow without specifying what they consider acceptable. More importantly, which device they currently use that is faster, and what that measured speed actually is.

So to give some numbers about continuity beep minimum contact period of some of my meters:
(hand)  Fluke 179:             0.2ms
(bench) Keithley DMM6500:  3ms
(hand)  Uni-T UT123T:        13ms
(hand)  eevblog 121GW:     40ms
(bench) Siglent SDM3055:  50ms
(bench) Keysight 34465A: 400ms

So, yes, handheld is normally faster, but there are exceptions.

How was that Fluke measured? That seems too amazing. 😉

I want a DMM6500, but it's out of my budget. I'd buy two more SDM3065Xs before buying it considering that the SDM3055X-E is really better than what I generally need.

[bateau020]

How was that Fluke measured? That seems too amazing. 😉

With an AWG directly driving the input of the DMM. 1Hz cycle, 50 Ohm output impedance, H=5V, L=a couple of mV negative (as 0V was seen as over 10 Ohms). Yes, I should use a FET or so, but this was a quick set up, and easily tuned to the DMMs.

[KungFuJosh]

How was that Fluke measured? That seems too amazing. 😉

With an AWG directly driving the input of the DMM. 1Hz cycle, 50 Ohm output impedance, H=5V, L=a couple of mV negative (as 0V was seen as over 10 Ohms). Yes, I should use a FET or so, but this was a quick set up, and easily tuned to the DMMs.

That's cool. I should try that with my meters.

[Antonio90]

Some tests:

AN8002 7.2ms  (latching)
AN8008 7.2ms (latching)
BM869s 0.2ms (not really audible under that)
SDM3045 (3055X-E) 50ms (misses very few beeps down to 40ms)
34461A 15ms (latching, sometimes beeps twice per pulse under 50ms or so)
34401A 9ms (latching) very few lost pulses down to 6ms
WH5000A 3ms (latching)
UT181A 2ms (latching)
MTX 3282 10ms, non latching, not really audible under 15ms.

1Hz, levels adjusted to 2-10 Ohms depending on the DMM, varying pulse width. Tested for 10 seconds or so to check for lost pulses when approaching the limit of each one.
Really, the Siglent is nothing special. You might argue it is good enough for your use case, but it is worse than almost any other DMM. I'd say the sample is a good mix, from bottom of the barrel to high-end.

A bunch of edits. Formatting and typos.

[Martin72]

Fascinating....
How do you measure the time in ms in such a test?
Do you have a trigger in your ear that triggers it?

[Antonio90]

How do you measure the time in ms in such a test?
Do you have a trigger in your ear that triggers it?

Why would anyone need that? It's an audible cue. If it stops giving a beep each second, it's not giving a beep. It's not a precision measurement because it's not a precision function.

The time in ms is given by the SDG1062X. When the pulse according to the AWG is too narrow for the meter to give an audible beep, I dial it to be wider, with ms resolution, unless lower than a millisecond.

[Kawakneurder]

...
(bench) Keysight 34465A: 400ms
...

...
34461A 15ms (latching, sometimes beeps twice per pulse under 50ms or so)
...

How did these two meters get such vastly different readings? I would presume that (at least for continuity) they would share identical circuitry. Hell, considering the price difference you'd hope the 34465A would at least perform slightly better.
Or is this perhaps because of the test method? i.e.:

...
Actually is slower than on Keysight 34465A and Keithley DMM6500. Keithley is quite fast visually but the sound is lagging behind. On Keysight is opposite.
...

That one measures the continuity to beep, and the other to display update rate?

1Hz, levels adjusted to 2-10 Ohms depending on the DMM, varying pulse width. Tested for 10 seconds or so to check for lost pulses when approaching the limit of each one.

With an AWG directly driving the input of the DMM. 1Hz cycle, 50 Ohm output impedance, H=5V, L=a couple of mV negative (as 0V was seen as over 10 Ohms). Yes, I should use a FET or so, but this was a quick set up, and easily tuned to the DMMs.

Because seeing these it seems you guys both use similar measurement methodologies.

[Antonio90]

@Kwakneurder
There was a firmware update which improved it vastly.
Continuity was completely unusable when I bought it, but it became decent after an update, can't remember which one.

[The Soulman]

How do you measure the time in ms in such a test?
Do you have a trigger in your ear that triggers it?

Why would anyone need that? It's an audible cue. If it stops giving a beep each second, it's not giving a beep. It's not a precision measurement because it's not a precision function.

The time in ms is given by the SDG1062X. When the pulse according to the AWG is too narrow for the meter to give an audible beep, I dial it to be wider, with ms resolution, unless lower than a millisecond.

That's only halve of the story, there still could be a noticeable delay/latency between when the continuity is detected until the beeper beeps.
I'd rate that at least as important.