New Siglent SDS1104X-E zoom problem

[TopLoser]

Ok... so a couple of weeks ago I needed a 4 channel scope with decodes and shock horror I found I didn't have one anywhere (yeah I know, I shouldn't keep selling the bloody things).

So I bought a brand new Siglent SDS1104X-E from Batterfly, paid full price.

That stupid 'only capture what's on the screen' thing is an utter pain in the arse, would be tolerable if the zoom worked and you eventually got used to finding you had only captured 70 points. BUT... the zoom is fcking useless, as least I think it is. What am I doing wrong or is this thing broken out of the box?

Shoddy video here, excuse my hand being in the way 90% of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w5M3i7r9gQ&feature=youtu.be

So I captured 14M points of noise with a bit of wire stuck in input 1. Press the zoom button and select a small region. Press the zoom buttom to enlarge it to full screen, then try panning left and right... WHAT? You can't pan left and right once you've put the zoomed view to full screen??? Ok press zoom again to see the whole waveform and select a different area, HANG ON?? Where's the 14M of captured data gone? One side's been deleted. Move the zoom window and then enlarge to full screen again. Pan left and right and press zoom to go back to the full captured waveform. Fuck me it's all gone.

If I was a customer I'd be returning this POS...

Any ideas or comments?

[evgen.05]

14Mpts is captured on the screen. You can't move left or righ of the screen frame. Because there is no data in memory, it's filled.
maybe i'm something getting wrong, but i don't see any problem.

[simone.pignatti]

Ok... so a couple of weeks ago I needed a 4 channel scope with decodes and shock horror I found I didn't have one anywhere (yeah I know, I shouldn't keep selling the bloody things).

So I bought a brand new Siglent SDS1104X-E from Batterfly, paid full price.

Hello, yes I remember you were on of the first getting the unit. We will send you a credit via email since we have a launch promo price which you didn't get. Thanks.

[Fungus]

Looks like a huge bug to me.

[TopLoser]

Ok... so a couple of weeks ago I needed a 4 channel scope with decodes and shock horror I found I didn't have one anywhere (yeah I know, I shouldn't keep selling the bloody things).

So I bought a brand new Siglent SDS1104X-E from Batterfly, paid full price.

Hello, yes I remember you were on of the first getting the unit. We will send you a credit via email since we have a launch promo price which you didn't get. Thanks.

Thank you, but I'm not really bothered about the launch promo price. Didn't even know there was one until you mentioned it just now. It's just that I normally NEVER pay full price for ANYTHING!

I'd rather have a scope that behaved normally and didn't throw all my data away when it was in STOP and all I was doing was zooming and panning...

[TopLoser]

Looks like a huge bug to me.

Hell yes!!!

And for the record that's the first time I've agreed with anything you've ever said lol

[nctnico]

Do it again but this time tell us the time/div setting and the signal frequency. It appears you have captured part of a mains cycle but it is unclear to me data was lost or the scope allows to pan left & right while there is no more signal to show. Both is wrong BTW.

[TopLoser]

Ok...

First misunderstanding on my part - you can't enlarge the zoomed part of the waveform to full screen. That's a nasty failing in my view, but it seems to be true. You're stuck with the tiny view at the bottopm of the screen. Quite how that's going to work with 4+16 channels I have no idea.

Second mistake on my part - bad choice of waveform! It was 50Hz mains but had some other much higher frequency ripple superimposed on it. That fooled me into thinking that I COULD enlarge the zoomed view to full screen. In reality it was just toggling between the 14M point view and the zoomed view (as Siglent intended). Can't explain why I eventually lost the whole 14M points though, even in zoomed out view.

Operator error played a big part in this but where did the data go?

I don't like this scope. The horse should pull the cart, not the other way round.

[TK]

I don't like this scope. The horse should pull the cart, not the other way round.

What other scopes have you used in the past?  You read a lot of good stuff from enthusiasts on this forum, then you buy the scope and it is not what you expected... I have the agilent 54622D which is a green CRT scope, but has excellent UI and responsiveness, then I read all the good stuff about the Rigol scopes and I decided to buy the MSO 2000 model, being 4 channels and color LCD, it did not work as near as good as my old 54622D so I sold the Rigol and purchased the Keysight EDUX1002G and I am very happy with it.  It is not just the specifications and number of channels that is important, is the whole user experience that matters.

[nctnico]

On many oscilloscopes (DSO) you can zoom in on a signal by adjusting the time/div knob. You shouldn't need zoom mode at all. Actually I never use zoom mode on a scope myself.

[TopLoser]

Do it again but this time tell us the time/div setting and the signal frequency. It appears you have captured part of a mains cycle but it is unclear to me data was lost or the scope allows to pan left & right while there is no more signal to show. Both is wrong BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWr60s8rbQY&feature=youtu.be

You can certainly pan left and right when there is no more data to show.

I wish toggling between normal and zoom wouldn't reset your area of interest back to the centre each time. You're forever fiddling with the left/right button to try and get back to where you wanted to be as you go in and out of zoom. Utterly frustrating.

A nice little zoomed out strip along the top like Lecroy used to have on the WaveWhatevers would be more helpful for navigating.

[TopLoser]

I don't like this scope. The horse should pull the cart, not the other way round.

What other scopes have you used in the past?  You read a lot of good stuff from enthusiasts on this forum, then you buy the scope and it is not what you expected... I have the agilent 54622D which is a green CRT scope, but has excellent UI and responsiveness, then I read all the good stuff about the Rigol scopes and I decided to buy the MSO 2000 model, being 4 channels and color LCD, it did not work as near as good as my old 54622D so I sold the Rigol and purchased the Keysight EDUX1002G and I am very happy with it.  It is not just the specifications and number of channels that is important, is the whole user experience that matters.

I agree totally.

This year I've used:

Agilent 54622D (sure i still have it but no idea where)
Keysight 2000X and 3000X series
Tek MDO3000 series
Tektronix MSO2000 series
Tektronix TBS1000 and TBS2000 series
R&S HMO series
R&S Wavesurfer, Waverunner and WaveAce
Rigol 1054Z and the 2000

This Siglent thing has bugged me most...

[TopLoser]

I'm done with it now, got some other scopes in a pile that suit me better.

Anybody want this thing for £400 shipped?

[nctnico]

Why not return it?
I tested something similar on my GW Instek scope and it doesn't allow me to pan left & right beyond the signal in any time/div setting when in stop mode.

[TopLoser]

Wouldn’t dream of it, caveat emptor.

Simple case of a clash of personalities I think!

[evgen.05]

i don't see any problem on last video. My Hantek and Siglent has the same behavior.

[StillTrying]

I've watched the vid 3 times and can't really see what's wrong.

The manual says if you're going to pan and zoom stop the waveform with Single rather than Stop.

[tautech]

Both vids show normal behaviour but not normal usage.
Fingers are working faster than thoughts.

For a data capture it's always best to use slow timebase to collect as much data as possible.
STOPping the scope or Single shot then permits use of a faster timebase , with or without Zoom.
Zoom allows users to see how/where the magnified waveform correlates to the full capture.

Decide how to collect the data of interest then how it needs to be viewed. A little more usage then this becomes a very instinctive methodology.

[TopLoser]

I agree tautech, I prefer to think after the event.

Navigating through the captured data on this scope isn't intuitive though, it seems the scope is always fighting you.

[tautech]

I agree tautech, I prefer to think after the event.

Navigating through the captured data on this scope isn't intuitive though, it seems the scope is always fighting you.

You're just used to doing it a different way.
Some hangover from CRO days maybe ?
What can help is to take note of the memory depth on the top right of the display for the timebase you are using.
When you need the detail sloooooow her down, then do the capture and then investigate what you've got. Use the power of a DSO, grab large captures then zoom in on the detail with either the timebase or Zoom.
Remember to use the push functions of the position controls that all zero positions and the Trigger level one that sets it to 50%.

Spend a little time just doing simple stuff to gain familiarity with this scope......it's all there, you just need to get your head around it. 

BTW how's the Decode usage going ?
Get it doing the business them back the timebase out and then use Zoom and horizontal pan to look through the string. 

[IAmBack]

I'm quite surprised, but Rigol 1054z behaves as TopLoser expects. All it requires is to enable a "arbitrary" buffer size (not "auto").
OTOH, I2C decoding works only for on-screen data (or zoomed data when in zoom mode), so no way to see long sequence decoded on the screen.

[tautech]

An in depth study of 4ch X-E.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/