Possible reasons *not* to get an analog oscilloscope

[Analog Kid]

Probably obvious stuff, but perhaps therefore not mentioned.

To those who are seeking advice on what kind of 'scope to get, and whether to get an analog (possibly CRT) one or a DSO, here's a reason you might not want to get the former:

They're huge. Much too large to fit on most workbenches. And heavy.

My Tektronix 475 is 17" deep, so it stands on the floor, which is not an ideal location.
Plus it weighs > 20 lbs.
Compare that to any of the flyweight DSOs available.

If you want one of these scopes (it's a really good piece of gear, don't get me wrong), you'd do well to get one of those carts that they sat on back in the day so you can wheel it around. However, if you can even find one of those, it might set you back even more than the 'scope.

[BillyO]

I know you are officially ignoring me because I don't love your new scope.  Good enough reason I guess.  However, I post this for others that might read this thread, so please pay no attention.

I see nothing wrong with getting an analog scope.  If you want to get one, get one.  They are easy enough to accommodate if you really want one.  I would not say they should be your only scope unless you have very limited use for a scope.

In my case, since electronics is a hobby for me, I have little quirks I like to entertain.  One of my pastimes is working on vintage stuff.  Not only that, but I like to work on vintage stuff with vintage equipment.  Quirky, eh?

So here is a picture of my vintage "lab" equipped with TE from the 70's and early 80's.  Even the computers (except one, for internet access) are from that time period.

So, you can see why I absolutely need, not one, but two analog scopes.

[KungFuJosh]

So here is a picture of my vintage "lab" equipped with TE from the 70's and early 80's. 

I appreciate that the desk looks appropriately battered, but I think the wall needs some wood paneling. I hope there's plastic on the couch too.

[BillyO]

I appreciate that the desk looks appropriately battered, but I think the wall needs some wood paneling. I hope there's plastic on the couch too.

Dude!  You read my mind!  I've been looking for that Luan mahogany paneling for years.  The only thing I can find is modern printed press board.  Blech!!

The stool has a vinyl cushion on it, does that count?

I made that bench when I was going to University.  It's all original.   

[slugrustle]

Another good reason for a digital scope over analog is if you want to do a single shot capture without using photographic equipment.

Modern digital scopes with deep memory are incredible tools.

[Analog Kid]

I see nothing wrong with getting an analog scope.

Nor do I.

You might have missed my point, which was merely that analog 'scopes are relatively yuge (and heavy) compared to DSOs.

BTW, I see you have what looks like the same 'scope I have (Tek 475).
Ah; on closer examination I see it's a 465. Close.
And I see that you have somehow managed to squeeze it in on your bench.
My bench just doesn't have enough room for that beast.

You wouldn't happen to know where I can get a replacement knob, would you? (One of the little ones.)
For maybe less than an arm and a leg like most eBay sellers seem to be asking.

[BillyO]

My source would be eBay.  If there are none currently available create a search and save it.  That way when people list new TEK knobs for sale you will get a notification.

And yes, it's a 465.  Good catch.

[tv84]

So here is a picture of my vintage "lab" equipped with TE from the 70's and early 80's.

If it works, don't touch it! 

[Aldo22]

Possible reasons *not* to get an analog oscilloscope

There are no longer any brand-new analog oscilloscopes manufactured, so you have to buy used, old devices.
These are often 40 years old or older and aren't necessarily easy to repair.
Buying one is a bit of a gamble—or rather, a race against time.
An old analog scope can be more of a hobby than a tool.

[Gyro]

We've had many long and detailed technical threads over the years on the relative merits of DSOs and analogue  scopes, but starting one to say that CRT scopes (which includes early DSOs) are bigger and heavier? Seriously?

[tautech]

Possible reasons *not* to get an analog oscilloscope

There are no longer any brand-new analog oscilloscopes manufactured, so you have to buy used, old devices.
These are often 40 years old or older and aren't necessarily easy to repair.
Buying one is a bit of a gamble—or rather, a race against time.
An old analog scope can be more of a hobby than a tool.

Says someone that thinks they know my industry every few years or so. 

Of course it's utter BS 

14 CRO models to choose from, from just 1 manufacturer:
https://www.pintek.com.tw/productClassify/landersound-tail2/index/16856

Somewhere there must be a market that still values them.... 

[2N3055]

I am sorry but I do not think like that, so find this question unusual.

I don't buy everything in sight, unless there is a reason not to.
I do the opposite: I do not buy anything, unless there is a reason to have it, and a possibility to do so.

Don't get me wrong,  reason can be something like "because I like it, and wanted it since I was a kid". It is a weak reason, but still some incentive.
Frankly, I usually do need a bit stronger reason than that, and I don't like hoarding. So every tool is there because it addresses specific function.

Analog scopes are outdated oscilloscope concept. They still do what they did years ago. And some things like live X-Y display they are better than most digital scopes, but even that gap is closing. Funny enough, if someone in scope industry cared enough, it would be quite possible to make X-Y display on digital scope be as good as any analog scope. But, as you can probably guess, scope art is not business case.
And digital scopes can do single shot X-Y display that analog cannot. Together with literally hundreds of other measurements and things you can do with very inexpensive digital scopes today.

My advice would be: if you can have only one scope, get a decent digital one. CRT analog scope you can get as a second one for odd moments you want to use that. But you will be using analog scope very rarely, for when you just want to do something on CRT scope. Digital scope will be your workhorse.
And if you get old analog CRT scope, you will need digital one to repair analog one. Because they are old and will break occasionally.

So if you really want to have analog CRT scope, just because, and have money and space for it, go for it. If that makes you happy.
Is there anything work related you can do with it that you could not use digital for ? No.
But digital can do many other things analog CRT cannot.

Which is the reason why they are not seen anymore and produced by only few specialty manufacturers and the world is running on digital ones.

One more comparison?  Analog CRT scopes are like old analog moving coil multimeters. Take the best one and put it beside BM869S.. When comparing start with 2-3 % best accuracies on the best ones. And parallax reading error (mind the mirror!)..... You get the point.
But they look cool to me. I keep my two old ones, but as a memento of different times. And sometimes when I have time, I take them out of cupboard and measure thing with them for funsies.. But for work I use modern digital instrumentation.

[Aldo22]

14 CRO models to choose from, from just 1 manufacturer:
https://www.pintek.com.tw/productClassify/landersound-tail2/index/16856

OK, thanks—I didn't know that.  How much do they cost these days?

That doesn't change the fact that—at least here in our area—retailers no longer carry them.
When it comes to buying an analog oscilloscope these days, people automatically think of the second-hand market.

[Obin]

A reason not to buy an old analog scope:

• Your wrist might get tired of working those high-quality mechanical switches that give a loud and sturdy 'click' on every position. Much better to get spunge-y capacitive rubber buttons

[nonius_]

[Aldo22] These are often 40 years old or older and aren't necessarily easy to repair.

It's relative: they're much easier to repair than modern digital scopes. Consist often of simple, discrete components and simple designs where you can easily trace the fault down to a single component.

As to the size: there are small analog scopes too. Have a Micronta type 9500 and a Handykit HKS130 that are small scopes. And very simple technology, easy to repair (or even to build yourself from scratch).

I used to own a Tek 535 or 545 (forgot which one) with half a dozen plug-ins back when it was the only affordable (yes, not kidding here) scope I could find as a starving student. But that one was a bridge too far w.r.t. size and power (600W, IIRC. Not something you want to turn on during a warm summer day). But not all Tek's are made like this. They made the Tek222 as well.

As for myself, I have 2 DSO's sitting on the bench (TDS 210 daily driver, and a HP54504A); plus a Fluke 99B series-II scopemeter that only counts half; it's not a good scope and not a good meter, but often still quite handy.

Have a few analog ones (PM3234, my favourite analog one), PM3240X and a PM3055, the user-interface of which I hate. Philips shouldn't have fixed there what wasn't broken. Plus a few other scopes that ended up in my shack as nobody else wanted them (Micronta 9500, HKS130). Plus a PM3302 analog/digital scope that has been reduced to dedicated read-out for my signature-analyzer (fancy 'octopus'). It's allowed to live it out its retirement in that role.

Nothing glamourous but they get the job done. They're all nice to have but not essential for me, apart from the TDS210, which gets used 99% of the time.

Still, when I made new shopshelves for the lab half a year ago, I made them 49cm deep, so all the larger pieces of kit (scope, PM5193 function generator, and hopefully soon, a HP8640B too) could fit comfortably.

[2N3055] Analog scopes are outdated oscilloscope concept. They still do what they did years ago

Yes, and that's good, no? It'd be like saying bicycles are outdated because they still do what they 100 years ago. Non sequitur.

scope art is not business case.

XY-mode is used for a lot more than 'scope art' - I'd say the art is the exception, not the rule, for using XY-mode (though, watching YouTube, you might get a different impression).  My analog signature analyser uses XY, as does the panorama-receiver (both homebuilt). Though I suppose you could call my scopeclock 'art'. 

But I agree, if DSO's would finally get XY-mode right, that would be very nice!

And if you get old analog CRT scope, you will need digital one to repair analog one.

I've never needed an oscilloscope to repair my oscilloscopes.... a DMM was enough. Or even just good eyesight and sense of smell. BTW, my first oscilloscope was homebuilt using a DG7-4 CRT and valves. Its CRT (with burned-in horizontal line) now sits on the mantle piece.

[Obin]Your wrist might get tired

Or worse, some of the younger engineers might even hurt themselves, trying to operate those mechanical knobs and switches. Bit like those secretaries who used to type on mechanical typewriters, vs. those who learned on keyboards: it's easy for the 'old-fashioned' typists to switch to keyboard (and hoping they don't ram the keys through the desk....) than for the young'uns to have to switch back to a mechanical typewriter: their fingers/hands wouldn't be up to it....

[BillyO]

If it works, don't touch it! 

Well, I did have to fix most of that stuff, but that is half the fun.

I do have a lab equipped with slightly newer stuff too.  It currently amid some chaos or other surrounding some project or projects...

[BillyO]

One more comparison?  Analog CRT scopes are like old analog moving coil multimeters. Take the best one and put it beside BM869S.. When comparing start with 2-3 % best accuracies on the best ones. And parallax reading error (mind the mirror!)..... You get the point.

There are places, usually physics related (but not limited to that), where you cannot bring your BM869S.  The nice thing about a good analog, moving coil meter is they have zero emissions.  Bring a modern DMM into some physics labs and you could ruin a $20M experiment.  That's why you can still buy a brand new Simpson 260 and pay nearly $1000 for it.

[tautech]

.........................
But I agree, if DSO's would finally get XY-mode right, that would be very nice!
..............

You haven't been keeping up to date so some study is waiting for you:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/oscilloscope-music-on-dsos-post-your-results/

[2N3055]

[2N3055] Analog scopes are outdated oscilloscope concept. They still do what they did years ago

Yes, and that's good, no? It'd be like saying bicycles are outdated because they still do what they 100 years ago. Non sequitur.

scope art is not business case.

XY-mode is used for a lot more than 'scope art' - I'd say the art is the exception, not the rule, for using XY-mode (though, watching YouTube, you might get a different impression).  My analog signature analyser uses XY, as does the panorama-receiver (both homebuilt). Though I suppose you could call my scopeclock 'art'. 

But I agree, if DSO's would finally get XY-mode right, that would be very nice!

And if you get old analog CRT scope, you will need digital one to repair analog one.

Actually your statements are non sequitur.  If old scopes are bicycles, then new digital scopes are cars.

As for bicycle analogy, you forgot that people used to have vehicles that consisted of bicycle front end attached to a cart. And used that to pedal their produce to farmers market. And they were very happy as soon they didn't have to do that. Ever again.
Same as power tools. Believe it or not, people used to drill holes with drill devices the had no power except the operator.
Again, going back to that is not going to happen.

Bicycles are good at only one thing: being bicycles. Which on a rainy day I will let you enjoy. I will leave that pleasure to you. I am going to pass.

If you read what I wrote again, you will see that I didn't say analog CRT are useless. They will do all the things they can within their capabilities. They are very limited in what they can do. Digital scope supersedes them by being able to do everything they can, and up that with literally hundreds of other things they bring to the game.
I said that only thing that analog CRT scope does better is fast X-Y mode. That is useful in very few things, and mostly scope art (almost exclusively).

Some newer digital scopes do even that very well. As for all kinds of tracers and such digital scope X-Y mode is superior actually.

And, I am an old farth. And both of my two sons could pick me up like a cat, and carry around like I am a bag of M&M... Skip the "young ones are good for nothing.." speeches. Both physically and mentally they are in their prime. And use digital scopes because they are smart enough to see what makes their job easier..

[2N3055]

One more comparison?  Analog CRT scopes are like old analog moving coil multimeters. Take the best one and put it beside BM869S.. When comparing start with 2-3 % best accuracies on the best ones. And parallax reading error (mind the mirror!)..... You get the point.

There are places, usually physics related (but not limited to that), where you cannot bring your BM869S.  The nice thing about a good analog, moving coil meter is they have zero emissions.  Bring a modern DMM into some physics labs and you could ruin a $20M experiment.  That's why you can still buy a brand new Simpson 260 and pay nearly $1000 for it.

Yeah, that goes without saying.
We are here discussing this from completely hobby perspective (as I presumed from OP question).
People that work in labs that need special instrumentation do not come to EEVBLOG with such topic...

There might be some obscure laboratory somewhere that NEEDS analog scope for monitoring of some process. If nothing else because detailed and formalized instructions are prescribed for workflow and nobody dears to deviate from it. But those people  know why.

This was discussed ad nauseam many time before.  There are some specialized analog CRT scopes (like some modular ones) that had some specialized inputs (like very high sensitivity, low noise differential inputs) that have no equivalent in modern scopes.
But that particular thing is not a question about analog/digital, but about fact that such analog electronics is not being done on such a scale across the world that makes that market lucrative enough for someone to make that kind of scope.

[Bud]

Digital scope supersedes them by being able to do everything they can, and up that with literally hundreds of other things they bring to the game

The things which an average Joe would use of what, 2% or less?

[negativ3]

The depth of my overbench shelf accommodates the deeper range of PSUs/Scopes/Meters and a glass skull to hold my headphones.

Great place to put repairs up to test longer term.

Predominantly rack mounted toys for the "actual" workshop.

[nonius_]

[Tautech]You haven't been keeping up to date so some study is waiting for you:

I bought my first DSO, a Tek TDS210, new in 1998 with my own money. I'm very glad to read that, FINALLY, after nearly 30 years, some manufacturers have managed to get XY-mode right. Was about bl**dy time....

[2N3055] If old scopes are bicycles, then new digital scopes are cars.

At best more like motor-assisted bicycles. Or perhaps a recumbent.

Believe it or not, people used to drill holes with drill devices the had no power except the operator.

Don't worry, I believe you

[Alex Nikitin]

Horses for courses. I have in my lab 3 analogue scopes, all Tektronix - 2465BCT, 2213A and 305DMM, two in a regular use (the 2213A is operational but kept as a spare), and 3 DSOs, all Agilent, only one now in a regular use - the MSO6014A. Just my two cents.

Cheers

Alex

[KungFuJosh]

Same as power tools. Believe it or not, people used to drill holes with drill devices the had no power except the operator.
Again, going back to that is not going to happen.

Well, same as analog scopes, some people enjoy that on occasion. Not me, but I know people.