Author Topic: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator  (Read 175733 times)

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Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #350 on: July 17, 2020, 05:00:35 pm »

Quote

 That's almost exactly the same solution I used with my FY6600 (three one quarter watt 33K resistors in parallel to make up an 11K "Static Drain" resistance to ground).

please one photo or diagram
 

Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #351 on: July 18, 2020, 11:45:12 am »
Go to my posting

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/re-feelelec-new-arrival-fy-6900-signal-generator/msg3092712/#msg3092712 :scared:

There is a photo of my device before I changed the PSU at the end.

IMHO it makes only sense to
- improve the weak cabeling
- add a 12 Volt 40 mm Fan and connect it to the 5v fan connector
- connect mains earth with the ground with 4.9 kohms

The power supply is better than expected and for this device good enough.
There are other weaknesses you can not change.... :palm:
„Everything must be made as simple as possible. But not simpler.”
― Albert Einstein
 

Offline timkoers

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #352 on: July 18, 2020, 02:47:53 pm »

 Long story short: Yeah, just put a 4K7 resistor in series with the wire going to the C14's earth tag. ::) ;D

JBG

I put a 10k resistor in there, is that resistance too high?
 

Offline Johnny B Good

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #353 on: July 19, 2020, 04:54:56 am »

 Long story short: Yeah, just put a 4K7 resistor in series with the wire going to the C14's earth tag. ::) ;D

JBG

I put a 10k resistor in there, is that resistance too high?

 That should be ok - I used an 11k resistor (three 33k in parallel). It's not critical, anywhere from 3.3k to 10k should be just fine - the 4k7 was just a suggestion bang in the middle (exponentially speaking :) ). Using a 10k reduces the "touch voltage" from half 240v mains (circa 90vac when measured with a 10M input DMM) to a mere half volt (quarter of a volt in the case of 120v mains supplies).

 You can measure the reduced half volt ac on the BNC grounds (assuming 230v mains) to confirm that the 10k resistor is doing its job. Assuming a worst case of 1 ohm resistance between the FG and the DUT's shield connections, a 10k resistor should provide 80dB of attenuation to any noise and unwanted DC offsets coming from the mains earth wiring.

 Reducing the resistor to 1k reduces this attenuation by 20dB to 60dB. Even if you use a 100 ohm resistor, you should still see a 40dB attenuation of mains earth wiring noise injection but since the main aim is to reduce the 90vac touch voltage down to less than a volt, the 3.3 to 10 k resistor values are more than sufficient to remove this ESD hazard to even the most delicate of DUTs.

JBG
John
 

Offline timkoers

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #354 on: July 19, 2020, 08:21:54 am »

 You can measure the reduced half volt ac on the BNC grounds (assuming 230v mains) to confirm that the 10k resistor is doing its job. Assuming a worst case of 1 ohm resistance between the FG and the DUT's shield connections, a 10k resistor should provide 80dB of attenuation to any noise and unwanted DC offsets coming from the mains earth wiring.

 Reducing the resistor to 1k reduces this attenuation by 20dB to 60dB. Even if you use a 100 ohm resistor, you should still see a 40dB attenuation of mains earth wiring noise injection but since the main aim is to reduce the 90vac touch voltage down to less than a volt, the 3.3 to 10 k resistor values are more than sufficient to remove this ESD hazard to even the most delicate of DUTs.

JBG

I measured it between Live en the GND with my DMM (The EEVBlog's Brymen BM235), but is is showing 230V AC. I don't think I measure it correctly though.
 

Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #355 on: July 19, 2020, 12:36:19 pm »
It‘s ok. You can ckeck it by measuring voltage between main earth and bnc ground. Should be lower than 1 V.
„Everything must be made as simple as possible. But not simpler.”
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Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #356 on: July 19, 2020, 11:07:56 pm »
Go to my posting

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/re-feelelec-new-arrival-fy-6900-signal-generator/msg3092712/#msg3092712 :scared:

There is a photo of my device before I changed the PSU at the end.

IMHO it makes only sense to
- improve the weak cabeling
- add a 12 Volt 40 mm Fan and connect it to the 5v fan connector
- connect mains earth with the ground with 4.9 kohms

The power supply is better than expected and for this device good enough.
There are other weaknesses you can not change.... :palm:

connect mains earth with the ground with 4.9 kohms?????
 

Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #357 on: July 20, 2020, 09:55:16 am »
Yes, look at the attached foto. The drain resistor is inside the black skrinked part of the yellow-green wire.
The device needs no earth grounding on the hot side. It‘s class 2.
So you cut the thin wire between ground and the outlet.
But now you need the drain resistor to reduce the occuring
„touchable“ voltage induced by the PSU - this was the situation with
the older FY6600. You can measure it between mains earth and ground.
The drain resistors reduces this leakage voltage to nearly zero.
There is only a minimal current flowing thatswhy the size of resistor
is not so important.
After that you get a „floating“ device what means you can connect bnc-ground to
a point of you DUT that has a potential different to earth.

But if you unsure what you are doing it is better to avoid to play with the hot side of the PSU. :--

„Everything must be made as simple as possible. But not simpler.”
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Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #358 on: July 23, 2020, 09:15:11 pm »
I finalized today my FY 6900 with my (non VC) OCXO I bought some weeks ago for
16 € @ EBay. The same I invested into the industrial grade PSU.
All the other stuff was from my shelf.
On the photos you can see the new PSU, the filtering board with the LDO 9V for the fan
and the OCXO board with the LDO 3.3 V for it. OCXO in the foam covering. OCXO, LDO, 74S04
on the backside of the strip board.
The OCXO 3.3 V output goes to the solder point were the cheap XO was located.
I use the former useless Trigger BNC as output for the 10 MHz reference signal.
It is driven by 3x 74S04 gates in parallel, each with a 150 ohm resistor at the output to get
a better signal with 50 ohms impedance.
The last picture shows the measure of a 2.000.000 Hz GPS signal from my Neo m8n.
After 2 hours the error is 250 ppb. Ok for this device and the end of my improvement efforts.
„Everything must be made as simple as possible. But not simpler.”
― Albert Einstein
 
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Offline g2

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #359 on: July 25, 2020, 06:35:21 pm »
I would like to buy a new function generator.
Which function generator should I choose: FY6600 or FY6800 or FY6900 or RD JDS6600. Or are there others in the same price range.
I have today Feeltech FY3200S 20MHz and am dissatisfied with:
1. lack of galvanic separation of the power supply.
2. missing galvanic separation of the USB port
3. Zero-pass glitch
4. On the FY3200 generator when you change the frequency or amplitude the output waveform glitches. No smooth adjustment.
5. In addition, Channel 1 20mV glitch has occurred for every 10.7uS.
When I read in EEVBLOG about the different function generators, it is difficult to figure out which one to choose, as there is a lack of an overall overview of advantages and disadvantages.
And some of the modification may not be important to everyone.
Do I get the same errors as with the Feeltech FY3200S?
Is there anyone who can explain some of the differences?
and what is absolutely necessary to change?
Thanks in advance Gert
 

Offline Labrat101

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #360 on: July 25, 2020, 09:07:05 pm »
Quote
I have today Feeltech FY3200S 20MHz and am dissatisfied with:

Hi I have FY6800 60Mhz  It has all the same bugs .. the internal PSU all have a problem.
 ie bad earth & pore quality ..
 The Jitter is the same .. only the box and some minor  software update.
 If you read though other posts . there are a lot of upgrades ie PSU etc.
 If you are unhappy with what you have the new faster version has some good features
 value for money  .. that's properly yes  >:D  Get what you pay for ..
.. It all depends on what you want to use it for . Just home hobby its ok .
 But if you are going to lash out I would go for maybe a good second hand profession one.
 I myself and many others in this forum have done many upgrades to make these FY's work well.

 Its a hard to recommend something that has known bugs .. You will have to do a lot of home work.

  personally when my FY6800 dies I would not get another one .

Have funny & good luck .
Make your self a Pros & cons list .  and read some of the earlier Posts this will guide You to a decision.

You should also read this link from JBG .

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/msg2475843/#msg2475843

 



« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 09:53:45 am by Labrat101 »
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Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #361 on: July 26, 2020, 10:05:31 am »
It is a good device you get for 89€ (my 6900) The 6900 has some minor improvements over its predecessors.
The keys and the improved PSU p.a.
For this money it does the job and as mentioned above some little tweaks (improve cabling, fan, cutting
earth and ground and use drain resistor) it is a good hobbyist device.

And I‘m pretty sure that there is no other device out there with the same value-per-price. :-+

But If you see all the weaknesses it has by design  before owning it you should buy
a more professionell device as I have done at the end.  |O

 the time of good bargains at Ebay is over
and you pay for 30 years old HAgilsight devices in unknown condition a fortune now.  :horse:
„Everything must be made as simple as possible. But not simpler.”
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Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #362 on: July 26, 2020, 10:09:11 am »
While writing the last post I got a question mark in my mind because I lost track of the Feeltech devices
during the last weeks.

Have they published a new firmware or software?


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Offline Labrat101

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #363 on: July 26, 2020, 12:01:24 pm »

Have they published a new firmware or software?   :-DD

I look every so often .. No the Last one is long time ago .. 
 This was a joke .. Yes    :-DD

There new model has a different number .. But they don't seem to supply updates .. and the PC program did have an update by GitHub which solved a few bugs .
 Nothing new for the 66 / 68  ..
 
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Offline timkoers

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #364 on: July 26, 2020, 12:26:43 pm »
I noticed that the FY-6900 is getting rather hot during standby. Is this common?
 

Offline Labrat101

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #365 on: July 26, 2020, 01:33:01 pm »
I noticed that the FY-6900 is getting rather hot during standby. Is this common?
The standby only turns the display off ... The PSU is still running on full load .. >:D
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Offline Johnny B Good

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #366 on: July 26, 2020, 04:25:43 pm »
Quote
I have today Feeltech FY3200S 20MHz and am dissatisfied with:

Hi I have FY6800 60Mhz  It has all the same bugs .. the internal PSU all have a problem.
 ie bad earth & pore quality ..
 The Jitter is the same .. only the box and some minor  software update.
 If you read though other posts . there are a lot of upgrades ie PSU etc.
 If you are unhappy with what you have the new faster version has some good features
 value for money  .. that's properly yes  >:D  Get what you pay for ..
.. It all depends on what you want to use it for . Just home hobby its ok .
 But if you are going to lash out I would go for maybe a good second hand profession one.
 I myself and many others in this forum have done many upgrades to make these FY's work well.

 Its a hard to recommend something that has known bugs .. You will have to do a lot of home work.

  personally when my FY6800 dies I would not get another one .

Have funny & good luck .
Make your self a Pros & cons list .  and read some of the earlier Posts this will guide You to a decision.

You should also read this link from JBG .

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/msg2475843/#msg2475843

 

 You'd better take a look at a later posting I made on this subject here:-

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/msg2477619/#msg2477619

 It turns out that the manuals for the 6600, the 6800 and the 6900 all perpetrate the same frequency versus p-p voltage limit error. All three can generate a full 20v p-p (High impedance loads) up to the 20MHz frequency limit for sine and square waves before plummeting to the 5v p-p limit.

 I've since come to the conclusion that, aside from that horrible earthing bodge that destroyed whatever ground return integrity there was in that 6 wire ribbon cable linking the PSU to the main board, the 6900 model is actually an improvement over its predecessors - they still use those ("We bought a million of these bastard THS3002i opamps and we won't be getting rid of them until every last one has been used up in our function generator product line") but now they've doubled them up to reduce distortion at the 20MHz 20v p-p limit. It's an improvement at the extreme limit but it still falls a little short of what could be achieved with just a single THS3491 per channel in the FY6600 and FY6800 upgrades.

 If I was still in the market for yet another cheap Chinese AWG, I'd be going for an FY6900 and a 4.7K half watt resistor ready to be inserted into a new grounding wire link from the C14's PE tag to the ground rail of the main board, plus a fan to fill the hole in the rear panel.

 As things stand, after running my never ending modification project, code named FY6600, for a little over 18 months, I'm now more than prepared to invest in an SDG1032X (hackable to a 1062X) for a mere 278 quid without discount. After all of my time spent in the purgatory of improving this toy AWG, I feel I'm long overdue some light relief.

 Back in November 2018 when I'd been looking for a signal generator to complement my recent 365 quid 'scope purchase (an SDS1202X-E), the original 360 quid asking price of the SDG1032X had seemed so out of proportion to what I'd just spent on the 'scope, that the sub 76 quid asking price of an FY6600-60M with double the frequency range looked a very good alternative... on paper at least. Of course, I've now developed a new sense of respect for the more subtle distinctions between these two products. ::)

===========================================================================================
[EDIT 2020-10-26]

 Now that I've had experience of both of the SDG1032X (returned as "Unfit for purpose" due to a horribly jittery internal clock oscillator fault) and the SDG2042X bought to replace it in the hope of being able to finally retire my much abused FY6600, I can tell you that I now have a new found respect for Feeltech's design efforts (but not the inexcusable bean counter led stupidity that did dollars worth of damage for the sake of a cent or two's worth of cost savings, nor for their non-existent "After sales customer support").

 It might come as a shock but the UI on these feeltech AWGs is miles better than the user hostile UI that Siglent have inflicted upon all of their AWG product line. The most user hostile effect I see with the FY6600 model are simply those horrible plastic dimples used to actuate the real, if variable quality, soldered on PCB mount switches - at least it's possible to replace any faulty or hard to operate switches.

 The most user hostile and counter-productive aspect of Siglent's UI is the frequency setting interface where the keypad entry is limited to a maximum of 11 digits, the last three of which then get stamped on by the chosen multiplier, causing the displayed reading to be rounded to the nearest 8 digit value even though the full 11 digit entry does get used to set the frequency.

 If you want to make a fine adjustment via the rotary encoder and digit select cursor as per the FY's only method, you're limited to just 8 digits and always have to shift the cursor to the desired digit, unlike the FY's "sticky digit select" which can be anyone of the full 14 digit's worth of resolution available to the FY series.

 The 1uHz resolution in the SDGs only applies to a maximum of 100KHz and that's when using the clunky keypad entry method. Unlike the FYs where you can fine tune a 1uHz offset over the full range DC to 100MHz, Siglent's 1uHz resolution is limited and reduces as you select MHz and then tens of MHz frequency settings. Despite the lack of a keypad (more likely because it lacks a keypad), Feeltech had managed to create a frequency setting interface that is a positive joy to use by comparison to that of the SDG models. :o ::)

 Then we come to the rest of the menu driven UI unfriendliness of Siglent's (not so) finest which I won't bore you with other than to say, "It's no Beauty Queen". This is one area that could definitely benefit from the expertise of an industrial designer of UIs rather than some software hack looking to the other equally horrible efforts of their perceived competition (Rigol and the A brand product lines).

 The staggeringly (in hindsight now) uncritical praise by reviewers such as Dave Jones and that guy that did the tear down of that famous 1,3 million dollar Keysight 113GHz BW 'scope must surely have been down to their limited experience with only A brand (and Rigol) kit to compare against the Siglent gear they've reviewed.

 Mind you, I thought Dave had reviewed at least one of the more recent FY66/6800 AWG models? Perhaps I'm thinking of a Defpom review (but even he failed to say "Phewey! This UI sure does stink!" when he reviewed the SDG1032X). Perhaps they were so hung up over the performance specifications, they neglected to pay any mind to what I now see with the benefit of my FY6600 experience as glaring deficiencies in the UIs of T&M kit in general (apparently, Siglent are better than most in the UI department ::) ::) ::) ).

 In the light of my experience with the FY6600, it would seem that all these highly regarded reviewers have (undoubtedly unwittingly) done a great disservice to their Youtube audience by not offering scathing criticism of the UI quality of this class of T&M kit (DSOs seem to have attracted the cream of the software talent available within each manufacturer's pool of such developer talent, leaving the function generator departments having to make do with the dregs).

 My remarks following this edit insert still apply despite Labrat101's findings with his own FY6800's fake/clone Cyclone FPGA IC. In his case, I think the problems he's discovered are more to do with having the bad luck to receive an FY6800 with a faulty clone FPGA rather than just the fact that it used a clone FPGA.

 I don't believe that Feeltech had decided out of the blue to start using cheap clone Cyclone chips with the introduction of the FY6800 (BICBW) when it seems more likely that this had all started with the very first FY6600 models. With the benefit of Labrat101's findings, it just means you now have some more tests to perform to make sure a new FY6800 or (on topic in this thread) FY6900 is free of these and previously discovered defects before risking all by modifying the (bean counter instigated) crap out of it and invalidating its nice shiny Chinese waranty.  :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD

[END EDIT]
===========================================================================================

 For any cash strapped hobbyist, the FY6900 makes an excellent first AWG choice. It stands head and shoulders above its peers (other cheap Chinese toy signal generators). Indeed, this had also been the case for the 6600 and 6800 models which it supersedes.

 By "cash strapped hobbyist", I mean someone with at least the basic skills to wire a 4.7K resistor between the PE tag of the C14 socket and a convenient connection point on the ground rail of the main board, along with the ability to at least undo the vandalism to the ground return wire in the 6 wire ribbon cable between the PSU and main circuit board and fit a 40mm square 12v fan into the unpopulated fan aperture in the rear panel and connect it to the 5v rail to quietly reduce the internal temperature to less insanely high levels. >:D

 There, I've just pointed out the three cheapest and highest priority (most essential) modifications that any "cash strapped hobbyist" should do to protect their modest investment. ::) There's no need to thank me for this sage advice (a simple click on the "Say thanks" button will more than suffice if you insist). >:D

JBG

« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 03:30:22 pm by Johnny B Good »
John
 
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Offline Johnny B Good

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #367 on: July 26, 2020, 04:41:40 pm »
I noticed that the FY-6900 is getting rather hot during standby. Is this common?

 Too bloody right, it is! As was the same for its predecessors, the 6600 and the 6800 models. Luckily in this case (literally!) the simple cure of installing a small 40mm square 12v fan and powering it from the 5v rail to give quiet relief from these electrolytic capacitor frying temperatures is even easier on account of the existing 40mm square fan shaped aperture in the rear panel (you'd had to cut your own fan aperture into the 6600 and 6800 cases to start with).

JBG
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 10:36:00 pm by Johnny B Good »
John
 

Offline Bad_Driver

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #368 on: July 26, 2020, 05:07:32 pm »
John

don‘t jump to short. I‘m pretty happy with my new SDG2042 (now 2122) and would not hesitate
to invest the 500€ again.

Have look at Welectron in Germany as long as the EU has not left your island  :=\.
I think the 6 month or 12 month financing offering can shift the monthly burden into the ground floor noise
of your familiy budget  :popcorn: And Welectron delivers the calibration certificate  :-DD

„Everything must be made as simple as possible. But not simpler.”
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Offline Labrat101

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #369 on: July 26, 2020, 06:37:20 pm »
Wow ...
Johnny I can feel your blood boil with just mentioning the name FY**** .
18 months of trying to get your moneys worth out of this P.O.C.C.
   Your Not alone .
The only reason I bought My 68 .  A year ago, was the Specs were so good I just could not believe it was Possible for $100 apx. ( Its Not  :wtf:)
I was going to buy the Siglent 2000 model .. Really sorry now . Next time I won't penny pinch .
 As we both know the time and effort spent upgrading  :horse: ..  We could have  invented a time machine ..
 OK, its been a Big learning curve and killed a lot of retirement boredom.
 But Keep your cool .
 Lets all buy a really good AWG and make a New Post .. .. OH " it just works Great out the Box ".. Bummer I'M bored .  :-DD
 
 :popcorn:
RNS
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Offline Johnny B Good

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #370 on: July 26, 2020, 06:51:09 pm »
I noticed that the FY-6900 is getting rather hot during standby. Is this common?
The standby only turns the display off ... The PSU is still running on full load .. >:D

 Not quite full load, just very close to.  :)

 I reckoned in the FY6600's case it was no more than a 2 watt saving at most (a change of ~7 to ~5 watt). When testing to ascertain the lowest possible standby power state, I discovered that the relays made a contribution of 140mW each with no more than two of them possibly being operated at any one time, depending on whether either or both channels had been set to output in the 500mV to 4.99V range (the lowest possible standby power configuration). After taking account of the presumed effect of an 80% PSU efficiency, this translates very closely to as much as a third of a watt variation in the standby power consumption figures.

 Since applying my one turn buck winding modification to the PSU to efficiently increase the +/- 12v rails to +/- 12.7v (they had been a volt lower than this prior to any modifications), the current maximum possible consumption with square wave output on each channel driving 50 ohm loads at the 20v p-p setting (10v p-p loaded), including that of the 1.3 watts consumed by the OCXO's 12v 0.5A smpsu, I can see a peak consumption of 10W measured at the mains socket.

 Since this means a total combined output power of 1W into the 50 ohm dummy loads, that leaves all of the balance (some 9 watts in my case, otherwise 7.7W without the OCXO modification) being dissipated inside the confines of such a small effectively unventilated plastic box which results in rather high internal temperatures.

 Even with just 7,7 watt's worth of dissipation, the inside of that generator still runs far hotter than is good for the service life of its electrolytic capacitors which is why a small 40mm square 12v fan powered off the 5v supply rail can make such a dramatic difference and the reason why I'm such a fan of this fan modification.  >:D

JBG
John
 

Offline Johnny B Good

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #371 on: July 26, 2020, 09:09:11 pm »
John

don‘t jump to short. I‘m pretty happy with my new SDG2042 (now 2122) and would not hesitate
to invest the 500€ again.

Have look at Welectron in Germany as long as the EU has not left your island  :=\.
I think the 6 month or 12 month financing offering can shift the monthly burden into the ground floor noise
of your familiy budget  :popcorn: And Welectron delivers the calibration certificate  :-DD

 I appreciate the advice but being in the UK, I'd be looking at a UK based Siglent agent such as Labtronix or Telonic rather than one based in Germany (besides which, such financing has never appealed to me, especially as I now have some savings to burn up before the grim reaper comes to collect his prize - not that I'm all that much of prize in most anyone's view anyway).

 Other than the issue over Telonic routinely removing these certificates of calibration from the boxes, I've been very pleased with the service I've had plus they'd given me a nice discount on the price of the 'scope and timely delivery. That certificate isn't a proper calibration certificate anyway since it lacks any actual test measurement data results (that cryptic reference that Karen's email had made to explain why these certificates are removed from the box).

 As for that paper 'certificate', well, paper is just paper and 'ink', no matter the pretty patterns it creates, is just ink when all is said and done - the pdf copy is just as good despite my disappointment at not finding a paper copy packed into the shipping box.  :( ::)

 The main reason I'm considering the 210 quid cheaper SDG1032X over the SDG2042X is that the more expensive of those only goes to 25MHz square waves with rise and fall times of just 9ns in all variants whilst even the unhacked 1032 does low jitter square waves up to 30MHz and 60MHz when hacked to a 1062 both with respectable rise and fall times of 3.8ns at 2.5v p-p into 50 ohm loads. If the 2042 had included the special square and pulse wave feature of the 1000 series, my choice would have been to invest the extra 210 quid on a 2042 and hack it to a 2122.

 Obviously, the choice depends on what you think are the more important features to best meet your current and not too distant future needs. At this moment, I believe the square wave performance is likely to be of greater importance. I may live to regret not investing the extra 210 quid in a year or two's time but at least I won't be regretting having a better square wave generator feature for 210 quid less than I'd paid for the 2042.

 If in hindsight, I come to regret my decision to buy the cheaper model, well, that's easy enough to put right, and quite possibly for less than the current asking price of the 2042. If in doubt, choose the cheaper option since you may well have a much better choice a year or two down the line when you might be able to skip the 2000X series altogether. >:D

JBG
John
 

Offline Johnny B Good

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #372 on: July 26, 2020, 10:27:05 pm »
Wow ...
Johnny I can feel your blood boil with just mentioning the name FY**** .
18 months of trying to get your moneys worth out of this P.O.C.C.
   Your Not alone .
The only reason I bought My 68 .  A year ago, was the Specs were so good I just could not believe it was Possible for $100 apx. ( Its Not  :wtf:)
I was going to buy the Siglent 2000 model .. Really sorry now . Next time I won't penny pinch .
 As we both know the time and effort spent upgrading  :horse: ..  We could have  invented a time machine ..
 OK, its been a Big learning curve and killed a lot of retirement boredom.
 But Keep your cool .
 Lets all buy a really good AWG and make a New Post .. .. OH " it just works Great out the Box ".. Bummer I'M bored .  :-DD
 
 :popcorn:
RNS

 Well, my annoyance lies with the bean counter in chief whom FeelTech must have employed to best inspire the final production version's minor but annoying deficiencies to produce a cost effective half built AWG project kit aimed squarely at the cash starved hobbyist market demographic who would jump at the chance to make it their very own by modifying the hell out of it (and in so doing, invalidate the worthless Chinese warranty into the bargain - a win win for FeelTech).

 Most of the glaring deficiencies can be easily fixed by a keen and knowledgeable (or inventive) hobbyist for very little cost. A small cooling fan in all three models, a C14 socket replacement for the C8 in the 6600 model along with a half watt wire ended 3.3 to 10 K resistor and a rewire of the earth connection in the 6800 and 6900 models with a 3.3 to 10 K resistor to eliminate the earth loop issue and suppress the half mains live voltage ESD hazard of the 6600 model to address the two most serious and pressing issues for starters.

 The rest of the more ambitious modifications discussed in the FY6600 topic thread can be considered optional by most hobbyists, depending on their particular interest and needs. Considering the very cheap price, you do actually get quite lot for your money but at just circa 100 dollars US, there are limits, some of which can be extended relatively cheaply and others that are insurmountable, like the 4ns jitter issue on pulse and square waveforms (although the Sinc pulse waveform is surprisingly free of this 4ns jitter).

 Like your good self, I too was persuaded by the published specs which compared favourably to the SDG1032X in a swings and roundabouts sort of way at the time. So, on the basis that a 76 quid mistake was easier to swallow than a 360 quid mistake, I took a punt on the much discussed FY6600 and had myself a new obsession.  ::)

 As you so eloquently put it " its been a Big learning curve and killed a lot of retirement boredom", you hit the nail right on the head. :) And, the observation you made about starting a topic on a really good AWG has also hit the nail fair and square on its head. Let's face it, Novelty doesn't have much endurance, not even the novelty of perfection. Warty things tend to be of more enduring fascination (and let's face it, that FY6600, like its successors, had no shortage of warts for discussion >:D ).

 BTW, I have no regrets about buying that FY6600. As you mentioned, it gave me a lot of experience that will allow me to more fully appreciate whichever of the SDG models I finally choose to spend my hard earned on (the 1032 is the main contender at the moment). TBH, I doubt you really regret buying that 6800, I'm sure you must have learnt a lot from the experience, good or bad. If nothing else, you'll have a much better understanding of what you'll want out of your next AWG purchase. :popcorn:

JBG
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 10:42:22 pm by Johnny B Good »
John
 

Offline Labrat101

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #373 on: July 27, 2020, 09:32:33 am »
Quote
BTW, I have no regrets about buying that FY6600. As you mentioned, it gave me a lot of experience that will allow me to more fully appreciate whichever of the SDG models I finally choose to spend my hard earned on (the 1032 is the main contender at the moment). TBH, I doubt you really regret buying that 6800, I'm sure you must have learnt a lot from the experience, good or bad. If nothing else, you'll have a much better understanding of what you'll want out of your next AWG purchase. :popcorn:

Yup .. retirement Fixing things is a great pass time and fun.
 If only I could figure how to interface my Brain to a USB and get a new Updates would cut the learning curve  :-DD,
yup..your Right.. I guess if I had not bought the 68 . I would Not have had to read 15000 posts to catch up.  :-DD
  And been reading the News instead  ..   That really sucks ..  :palm:

My project with my fy68 has come to an end .. Run out of space in the box .. and unless some cleaver programmer can make a update to the firmware . and sort the final Jitter out on the software .
 which I don't think that will happen .
I did get the jitter down to 2ns but the firmware makes it side shift which is even more annoying
 so that is a dead end.   left as is.

Herr :-//.. what can we mode now .  Doc. Herr  :-//

 :popcorn:
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 09:37:10 am by Labrat101 »
"   All Started With A BIG Bang!! .  .   & Magic Smoke  ".
 

Offline Johnny B Good

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #374 on: July 27, 2020, 02:36:28 pm »
Quote
BTW, I have no regrets about buying that FY6600. As you mentioned, it gave me a lot of experience that will allow me to more fully appreciate whichever of the SDG models I finally choose to spend my hard earned on (the 1032 is the main contender at the moment). TBH, I doubt you really regret buying that 6800, I'm sure you must have learnt a lot from the experience, good or bad. If nothing else, you'll have a much better understanding of what you'll want out of your next AWG purchase. :popcorn:

Yup .. retirement Fixing things is a great pass time and fun.
 If only I could figure how to interface my Brain to a USB and get a new Updates would cut the learning curve  :-DD,
yup..your Right.. I guess if I had not bought the 68 . I would Not have had to read 15000 posts to catch up.  :-DD
  And been reading the News instead  ..   That really sucks ..  :palm:

My project with my fy68 has come to an end .. Run out of space in the box .. and unless some cleaver programmer can make a update to the firmware . and sort the final Jitter out on the software .
 which I don't think that will happen .
I did get the jitter down to 2ns but the firmware makes it side shift which is even more annoying
 so that is a dead end.   left as is.

Herr :-//.. what can we mode now .  Doc. Herr  :-//

 :popcorn:

 I know what you mean but a direct USB interface won't help, our brains have been evolved to absorb high data rate information via our senses of smell, sight and sound (pretty much in that order over the past 500 million years or so) so we use the intermediaries of display screens and loudspeakers (smell is a low bandwidth low priority channel in humans) to translate such data streams via USB and other serial interfaces. That's about as direct a link as we can create out of our technology.

 The bottleneck on learning new things is beyond the reach of a direct USB connection, hence all the development put into data format translation devices such as monitor screens and loudspeakers since it avoids the half million years or so lag in human evolutionary development that would be required to adapt the brain to cope with such direct data transfer streams. It's far easier to use a format/protocol translator to convert the format into a form our brains have had some 500 million years worth of development to work efficiently with and eliminate this half million year delay - go with what you've already got, this is one wheel we definitely don't want to waste time reinventing.  :-DD

I'm fairly sure that 15,000 posts figure must be an exaggeration. However, let's check: You joined just last November but you could've been reading the EEVBlog posts for a year before then, so assuming a total reading period of, let's say, 750 days, that equates to some 20 posts a day on average... Ok, I take that back. It's quite possible that this figure is no exaggeration after all. :o

 I guess you're referring to the global news on TV and in the newspapers. I know what you mean. The news is rather too "Interesting" these days but not in an amusing way, more in the sense of the "We live in interesting times" Chinese Warlord quote. Since it's pretty much been like this since WW II and just gradually getting worse, it just gets more and more depressingly boring for anyone who's managed to survive into a gentle retirement.

 Life's short enough without over-contemplating humanity's propensity for its various civilisations throughout all of history to date, to sleepwalk its way into a terminal disaster. What makes this particular exercise in somnambulism particularly worrisome is the fact that the civilisation in question this time is a global one where, unlike all the previous civilisations restricted to relatively small geographic areas, there may well be no way of coming back from this disaster by way of other less despoiled habitable regions on our little dirt ball. So yeah, I know just what you mean (I think!). ::)

 I guess it's all about knowing when to stop. And, reaching the stage when you've got the box crammed to capacity with mods is a very good indicator to my mind. :-DD

 You could review what you've done and realise that a well laid out circuit board could contain everything you've done so far and still leave room to spare for additional mods. At which point, you step back and consider the worth of redoing this to a better more compact and efficient standard and realise you'd best leave it as it is and just go out and buy a new higher quality AWG from the Siglent line instead and have done with it. :-DD

 I like your final line. It looks like a "Bugs Bunny"ism - I enjoyed those Bugs Bunny cartoons as a kid and long into adulthood. :) Anyway, it seemed an appropriate way to sum up your new predicament.  :)

 Like you (and doubtless many others), I've reached the end of my tether on this particular project. I'm particularly proud of my OCXO with injection locking external reference interface modification but Life's much too short to waste, tinkering any further, with this piece of cheap kit.

 The one good thing to come out of all this modding activity is that I'll be a lot happier to splash the cash on one of those Siglent AWG models than I'd have been some 18 months back. It's certainly changed my mindset in that regard. :)

JBG
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 02:42:40 pm by Johnny B Good »
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