Packaging of Rigol scope in factory - plastic bag/screen protection / fan-noise

[Fungus]

I pretty much never say this about anybody, but to me it seams like pascal_sweden is here just to tamper with people's nervers.

If this isn't an elaborate troll then I seriously hope he never has to buy anything expensive. Like a house ... or even a car.

[Monkeh]

In fact the European one is the best, and adopted by all European countries.

No, it is not adopted by all countries, and the various semi-compatible variants lead to the possibility of dangerous misconnections, which immediately disqualifies it from being the 'best'.

Their own clumsy mains plug

Which we invented and widely deployed before most other countries had standardised on one plug, let alone the EU.

driving at the other side of the road

Which we were doing before you, and places the typical dominant hand on the steering wheel, where it belongs.

pounds

Shock, horror, we use our own currency, let the world (which is bigger than the EU, FYI, just like it's bigger than the US) know immediately.

inches

Errr.. nope, sorry, we don't actually use inches any more.

Vauxhal instead of Opel.

Vauxhall are five years older than Opel, what gives Opel's brand priority?

[Macbeth]

For those who are not convinced about the size, look at the attached picture =)

I swear this is the kind of shit you get on 4chan /b/

Troll harder pascal_sweden - go back to 4chan and find something better.

[Fungus]

For those who are not convinced about the size, look at the attached picture =)

Oh, yeah, they're totally to scale.

[Neganur]

On topic:

My DS1052E came in a plastic bag secured by a foam frame packed in two cardboard boxes. I don't recall if there was a protective film over the LCD.


Offtopic:

I don't see the point in discussing cultural differences that have been established over many years (i.e. which side of the road etc.) Some things are simply hard too unify (right/left traffic) and some things are refused to unify (currency). Many of the standardization bodies are very young compared to what's going on in Europe (the continent) and the CEE 7/4 SHUKO plug is simply what the majority of the countries have come to agree upon. This plug is now practically compatible with the French.

Some in this thread say "Europlug", note that it is something else entirely for low power appliances that do not require protective earth.

As to if the SHUKO is more safe or better than the UK's BS 1363 be aware of that wiring (and its colours) has been different in countries and whenever standards are being introduced they are always combined with long grace periods (read: nobody cares until that deadline runs out, and then they rant because changing all of the wiring does cost money they don't want to spend). So as far as I understand, most of the "unsafe" conditions discussed are simply caused by assessing a plug in an environment it wasn't intended to be used in. Why is it important that the plug cannot be plugged "the wrong way" in? Is it a plug problem or an appliance design problem? Simply replacing a plug with the other standard and point out that it is now unsafe to use is really not the way you should present things.

I'm quite fascinated by the BS 1363 plug but I do not agree with most of the presented evidence why this one should be better or worse than the ECC. My ECC plug does not fall out of its socket all the time and I guess neither of them wins a beauty contest. It's also not the plug's fault for being put into an incompatible socket, and I doubt that any of those electrocutions that were mentioned have anything to do with a BS 1363 plug or socket.

Which we invented and widely deployed before most other countries had standardised on one plug, let alone the EU.

May I point out that other plugs in other countries have also been invented by their respective inventors and were deployed before most other countries have standardised their plugs. These things predate the EU in any case so why do you put it like this?

driving at the other side of the road

Which we were doing before you, and places the typical dominant hand on the steering wheel, where it belongs.

The Napoleon in me disagrees!

Shock, horror, we use our own currency, let the world (which is bigger than the EU, FYI, just like it's bigger than the US) know immediately.

Maybe some day when we all have the same currency and citizenship, we can focus on discussions without those pesky differences.

I despair when I see what plugs Europe, Australia and the USA use!

nitpick: you will always be a part of Europe

[Wuerstchenhund]

The UK mains plug is actually a joke. It's so big, and weighs a ton.
Compare the UK mains plug with a Micro USB adapter, and then you can see where innovation has taken place

I guess by now you probably know already what a moronic statement that was.

It was designed for safety, but would say it's the opposite. The plug is so big, that you can only plug it in half in the socket, while touching one of the leads with your finger. Very safe! Yes...  well done design

Yes, it's indeed a very good design. The connector is polarized, the socket has a safety lock that makes earth contact before GND and Live are connected, the sockets have a switch and the plugs come with a fuse. There's not much way to make it any safer.

I hate the European style connectors. There are several incompatible variants, some of them non-polarized (i.e. the German Schuko standard) which comes with its own set of issues. Brits do have some weird things but their mains plug is certainly the safest one out there. Realy well designed.

Quite ironic. Usually in the US they like everything big, take SUVs, giant T-bone steaks. But when it comes up to power plugs, they are one of the smallest. Put the US plug next to the UK plug, and we are talking worlds of differences =)

Yeah, what a difference, but not in a good sense. The only advantage of the US plug is that it is probably the cheapest to make . It's neither safe nor really solid (I often had wall warts pulling the plug out of the socket).

There are many great things in the US (and god knows I love that country), but their pathetic 110V mains system and their poor power grid really isn't amongst them.

[Neganur]

The connector is polarized[...]

Why is this relevant? Why is this supposedly "safer" than non-polarised plugs?

I hate the European style connectors. There are several incompatible variants, some of them non-polarized (i.e. the German Schuko standard) which comes with its own set of issues. Brits do have some weird things but their mains plug is certainly the safest one out there. Realy well designed.

The CEE is a standard supposed to be used in all of the European countries, which it actually does in the majority of them. There are a few exceptions but they are mainly due to grace periods or because some countries flat out refuse to adhere to standards. There also aren't several incompatible standards, if you look it up, you can see that the CEE plug is by far the most common one with one completely compatible (the 'French' style) and the Danish and Italian being the real exception. The Danes can use both their own style and the SHUKO but since they don't _have_ to use the SHUKO they don't. I would also like to point out that the Danish plug is very similar to the UK one. So the only really different plugs are in Italy, Denmark and the UK (leaving Switzerland out of the debate, sorry).

I think you made it pretty clear that you dislike (hate) all other plugs but you list very few relevant reasons ("it is designed better" how?, "the safest" why?) just try not to let it carry you away because I would really like to know your reasoning behind it.

[...]but their pathetic 110V mains system and their poor power grid really isn't amongst them.

Why is it 'pathetic' and what makes it 'poor'?

[Macbeth]

The connector is polarized[...]

Why is this relevant? Why is this supposedly "safer" than non-polarised plugs?

I hate the European style connectors. There are several incompatible variants, some of them non-polarized (i.e. the German Schuko standard) which comes with its own set of issues. Brits do have some weird things but their mains plug is certainly the safest one out there. Realy well designed.

The CEE is a standard supposed to be used in all of the European countries, which it actually does in the majority of them. There are a few exceptions but they are mainly due to grace periods or because some countries flat out refuse to adhere to standards. There also aren't several incompatible standards, if you look it up, you can see that the CEE plug is by far the most common one with one completely compatible (the 'French' style) and the Danish and Italian being the real exception. The Danes can use both their own style and the SHUKO but since they don't _have_ to use the SHUKO they don't. I would also like to point out that the Danish plug is very similar to the UK one. So the only really different plugs are in Italy, Denmark and the UK (leaving Switzerland out of the debate, sorry).

I think you made it pretty clear that you dislike (hate) all other plugs but you list very few relevant reasons ("it is designed better" how?, "the safest" why?) just try not to let it carry you away because I would really like to know your reasoning behind it.

[...]but their pathetic 110V mains system and their poor power grid really isn't amongst them.

Why is it 'pathetic' and what makes it 'poor'?

110V is pathetic as you can't boil a kettle of water quickly from the mains. The only reason for 240VAC (or 230VAC now) in the UK is purely so we can get a bloody good cup of tea nice and quickly using the 13A plug and socket. 3kW is excellent. Americans have to make do with something like 1kW, so resort to boiling kettles on the stove instead. 

[miguelvp]

FYI we have 120V and 240V for heavy duty stuff. And my kettle works just fast enough even if my wife insists in filling it up instead of just heating the water we need.

Also on the 240V that will be at 60 Hz, faster cycles should be more work or am I off on that?

Although I rather use natural gas myself to boil water.

[Creep]

The power dissipation has no correlation to freqency. And work (in this case dissipated heat) only depends on power and time. I don't see how having a bit higher freqency would make it heat faster (atleast as long as were not talking about the high freqency (MHz) range, in which case the laws of electromagnetism can sometimes have werid effects)...

[miguelvp]

I was just trolling as that seems to be the topic theme.

There is a power oscillation but RMS only cares about the shape of the wave: sine, triangle or square waves

[Macbeth]

... even if my wife insists in filling it up instead of just heating the water we need...

OMG - Tell me about it! arrrggh! 

[Leiothrix]

Why is this supposedly "safer" than non-polarised plugs?

Because some devices only have a SPST switch on the active instead of switching both leads.

Which means you could have a potentially live circuit, even if it is switched off.

[Mark_O]

Guys, guys!

All these side discussions are really fascinating.  But we're getting way off the original topic of plastic bags on Rigol oscilloscopes!  Let's not lose sight of what's important here.     Getting these questions answered and validated is critical to making purchasing decisions.

 

[m100]

Because some devices only have a SPST switch on the active instead of switching both leads.

Which means you could have a potentially live circuit, even if it is switched off.

I had cause to fit a UK mains plug to a brand new US made product costing about GBP 5000 in the early 1980's (not test gear).   A five minute job I thought, cut off the plug and stripped back expecting to see IEC standard colours, but no, I saw a black wire, a white wire and a green wire.   Unsure of the US colour code and with no reference books immediately to hand I removed the cover of the equipment and discovered that the single pole rear panel switch was in one leg but the fuse was in the other,  from the way the wiring was loomed they must have thought it looked neater that way!  Eventually concluded it was a switched live black wire and a fused neutral white, even more confusing when we had fixed and legacy flexible wiring in the UK with black neutrals(albeit with red as live)  I modded the wiring with the switch and fuse in series in the live and cussed the designer / production line worker who screwed up.

Then a few months later I came across another bit of kit same as this one, with a plug fitted by someone else, only this time black was wired to the neutral in the UK mains plug. Removed the cover and saw the same switch in one leg and fuse in another though, so not a one off fault.  They ended up with a fused live and a switched neutral, possibly safer that way through ignorance of the wiring colours!

P.S.  Going back to the original posting   Seem to recall my Rigol 1052E was in a bag, sealed with tape, and with a sheet of protective plastic over the screen.  The outer box was sealed from the factory.  The fan is audible, and maybe a bit too loud if working in a quiet environment, can't be bothered to change it.

[andrija]

My 2072A and 832 were, I am pretty sure, in a plastic bag. Well packed with Styrofoam. I can't remember screen protector. The fan on 832 is ok. The fan on 2072A is UNACCEPTABLY loud. I don't know why engineers and network guys think it's acceptable to have extremely high noise levels in their equipment but the scope is genuinely disturbingly loud and distracting. I didn't pay gobs of money to silence my PCs, video cards etc. only to have this Rigol thing be louder than my airconditioner! I already bought a replacement fan and will get around to installing it eventually. And I'm really not exaggerating, this thing prevents you from being able to think.

[Wuerstchenhund]

The connector is polarized[...]

Why is this relevant? Why is this supposedly "safer" than non-polarised plugs?

Because (which has already been mentioned) some devices only have a SPST switch.

The CEE is a standard supposed to be used in all of the European countries, which it actually does in the majority of them. There are a few exceptions but they are mainly due to grace periods or because some countries flat out refuse to adhere to standards. There also aren't several incompatible standards, if you look it up, you can see that the CEE plug is by far the most common one with one completely compatible (the 'French' style) and the Danish and Italian being the real exception.

I admit "several different standards" of plug was exaggerated, but still they're treated differently depending on the country. CEE 7-5 (French variant) is polarized (which is an advantage) but this doesn't mean you can rely on the position of Live and Return. It also gives the plug very little mechanical support, which in combination with the small pins means it's easy to unplug accidentially. The German Schuko (CEE 7-4) gives proper support to the plug, but it's unploarized, and it shares with the CEE 7-5 socket that its Earth contacts are located outside the connector housing which exposes them to damage. The Schuko Earth contacts can also get easily damaged by some connectors.

The Danes can use both their own style and the SHUKO but since they don't _have_ to use the SHUKO they don't. I would also like to point out that the Danish plug is very similar to the UK one. So the only really different plugs are in Italy, Denmark and the UK (leaving Switzerland out of the debate, sorry).

The Danish 107/2/D1 is closer to a CEE 7-5 than to the UK plug. And the Italian plug is basically the Earthed variant of the CEE 7-16 (Europlug).

The UK BS1363 plug is larger but so are the pins, which gives the connector good and secure seating in the socket. The BS1363 sockets have no exposed parts. In addition, unlike the UK plug, CEE and the Danish and Italian standards have no connector fuse which means behind the power outlet the only circuit breaker is in the device (which means it's dependent that it actually *has* a fuse).

This makes, in my opinion, the UK BS1363 standard to the best and safest mains plug.

[...]but their pathetic 110V mains system and their poor power grid really isn't amongst them.

Why is it 'pathetic' and what makes it 'poor'?

"pathetic" refers to the low voltage which means that even devices with moderate power consumption require thicker wiring because of the resulting higher current. For many switch-mode PSUs it also means they run at lower efficiency than on 230V mains.

"Poor" refers to a power grid that has very little redundancy and is plagued by power outtages.