Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 12bit oscilloscopes launched in China

[ebastler]

I think I have seen enough. My DHO1074 is now a 70 MHz version with basic memory again, with fans running at full speed and no Key.data file just like I received it. Wiped the fingerprints off the screen, put it back into its box, and triggered the return process at Amazon.

There is a lot I liked about the scope. The 12-bit front end is "real", with low noise and usable 14- and 16-bit modes. The screen is brilliant, although a bit too reflective for my taste; the UI, while maybe a bit playful, works quite nicely indeed. And the decoding and measurement functions do work from full memory; I had them count 153000 pulses in a region defined by the on-screen cursors for example.

But there are just too many rough edges and cut corners: Measurements can't be changed after being set up (or at least not all parameters?); the Flex-knobs change parameters on awkward scales and get confused as to what they are controlling; FFT resolution and window functions remain dubious; recording mode is lame to an extent I can't understand...

Using the scope always felt like I was tip-toeing, weary of the next little stumbling block. Since this series has been in the market for more than a year, I don't have very high hopes regarding firmware improvements. And Rigol Europe, who took four weeks and three reminders to finally send me an upgrade code -- which then did not work at all -- did not instill a lot of confidence in the customer support I could expect.

Kudos to Amazon for their generous return policy. Their 2-month return window allowed me to be a good boy and wait until Christmas, then evaluate the scope in some detail. I keenly await Siglent's price for the SDS1000X HD, and will probably shell out the extra money for that scope when it eventually becomes available. In the meantime it's back to the DS1054Z, to re-calibrate my expectations. 

[Martin72]

And Rigol Europe, who took four weeks and three reminders to finally send me an upgrade code -- which then did not work at all -- did not instill a lot of confidence in the customer support I could expect.

At least they answered you, so you're ahead of me.

[egonotto]

and measurement functions do work from full memory

Hello,

respect for your decision.

I doubt if the whole memory is used for the measurements. In the noise measurements, I got different results in stop mode, when I changed the part visible on the screen. This does not change the memory content.

Best regards
egonotto

[ebastler]

I doubt if the whole memory is used for the measurements. In the noise measurements, I got different results in stop mode, when I changed the part visible on the screen. This does not change the memory content.

Right, when I said "work from full memory", that was not the best way to phrase it. The measurement functions seem to use the full time resolution provided by the memory. (In contrast to the old DS1054Z, for example, which only works with the down-sampled display data.) That makes a huge difference, of course, enabling meaningful measurements and decoding in many situations where using the display data does not give any meaningful results.

I am not sure what actual time range is processed under which circumstances. In my experiments a few days ago I deliberately limited the measurements to a range selected by the cursors -- a functionality my old scope does not offer at all, and which I found most useful, by the way.

[Njk]

Not everything is in the spec. For trigger output, basically only its existence is documented. In DS1000Z, the trigger output (and Pass/Fail) signaling is implemented in the lazy logic way, the scope asserts the signal and forgets about it till the moment it's about to start the next acquisition cycle. So the pulse width may vary, depending on time base setting, memory depth, etc.

AUX out works - 60ns pulse of 1.5V into 50R

That makes me confusing. Does it mean that in the Android series, Rigol changed the implementation such that the trigger output signal is now a pulse of fixed duration, a sort of marker? 60 ns is a short time.

[ebastler]

AUX out works - 60ns pulse of 1.5V into 50R

That makes me confusing. Does it mean that in the Android series, Rigol changed the implementation such that the trigger output signal is now a pulse of fixed duration, a sort of marker? 60 ns is a short time.

Why would that surprise you? The DHO1000 not only uses different firmware, but also a new hardware platform compared to the DS1000Z. I have not looked at the AUX output in my DHO1074, and no longer have it now, but have no reason to doubt thm_w's observation.

[Njk]

I'm just curious how exactly does it work in DHO

[voltsandjolts]

I think I have seen enough.
... triggered the return process at Amazon.

Yup, I can understand that. My impression is that the hardware is quite decent, but anything more than the basic scope firmware features are not implemented particularly well. I have no confidence Rigol will improve the firmware to any extent, maybe some minor fixes, ignoring the elephants in the room.

I'm keeping mine though. It's not my primary scope and for a basic 200MHz 4ch 10" display 12bit bench scope at £620 it's OK for me. But if Siglent 1000X HD ever gets close to that price on BF then I'll jump on it.

[the Chris]

(...) for a basic 200MHz 4ch 10" display 12bit bench scope at £620 it's OK for me (...)

... and 1280x800 display resolution.

I think that sums it up nicely. Unexpectedly, I like the UI a lot as well. For hobby, it is great value for money.
At work, I would rather like to use something that I can rely on without questioning its results. Then again, I would not have to buy it from my own money.

[voltsandjolts]

I like the UI a lot as well.

Yes, me too.

[ebastler]

Yes, as mentioned, I also consider the UI and the screen quality a strong point of the DHO series -- in particular on the 10" screen. It's a pity that the software lets it down in some places, e.g. by not giving the FlexKnobs meaningful step sizes and dynamic acceleration.

I have little doubt that we will see the better screen resolution, nicer fonts etc. on other scope brands too in the future, and that Rigol has pushed the envelope for the industry in that respect. The hardware cost is minimal, as witnessed by the ample supply of cheap 10" tablets, and updating the extra pixels on the screen can't be a prohibitive overhead either. The scope only has to keep pace with the user's vision there, so 60 updates/s are easily enough.

Why can't Rigol give us the nice hardware (screen and 12-bit ADC) and well-thought-out software -- without the little UI stumbling blocks and with solid FFT and Record modes -- at the same time? 

[JJ_023]

Why can't Rigol give us the nice hardware (screen and 12-bit ADC) and well-thought-out software -- without the little UI stumbling blocks and with solid FFT and Record modes -- at the same time? 

Having taken products to market and being responsible for the financial modeling my guess would be is it comes down to money.  I don't know the particulars of this scope in terms of hard costs.  But if they sold it for $650 on Black Friday you can be assured that their hardware costs are considerably cheaper then that.

Software development can get fairly expensive and time-consuming.  Sometimes good enough is good enough to be able to meet a particular price point.

Sometimes that approach works, however sometimes if the product is severely underdeveloped and rushed out the door due to competitive advantage opportunities it costs you brand loyalty.  It is a double-edged strategy.

IMHO anytime you ask such a question, the answer is usually monetary.

[ixtern]

Looking at the Rigol DS1000Z firmware update history, I believe that some day (perhaps "some year" rather) also DHO1000 firmware will be fixed and updated.

 From the 00.04.05.02.04 MSO_DS1000Z Release Notes.txt

v00.01.00.00.05   2013/05/19
     - Released the first edition
...
v00.04.05.02.04  2023/02/28
     -Added new nandflash driver and original nandflash compatibility

[voltsandjolts]

...
v00.04.05.02.04  2023/02/28
     -Added new nandflash driver and original nandflash compatibility

That would be to benefit Rigol when sourcing nand devices for building new units, not Rigol making additional features to benefit exisiting users.

[ixtern]

That would be to benefit Rigol when sourcing nand devices for building new units, not Rigol making additional features to benefit exisiting users.

Agree, but in last updates there were also fixes and useful updates:

v00.04.05.02.03  2022/03/25
     -add system file backup, solve the problems of red screen when booting, buzzer beeping, keyboard flashing

v00.04.05.02.02  2021/09/22
     - Solve abnormal measurement overshoot display problem.

v00.04.05.01.00  2021/06/01
     - Modify the vertical Display.
   
v00.04.05.00.00  2020/12/29
     - Add and modify some measurement functions
     - Modification of math problem
     - Modify some SCPI instruction errors
     - Modify some trigger problems.

[ebastler]

Looking at the Rigol DS1000Z firmware update history, I believe that some day (perhaps "some year" rather) also DHO1000 firmware will be fixed and updated.

 From the 00.04.05.02.04 MSO_DS1000Z Release Notes.txt

v00.01.00.00.05   2013/05/19
     - Released the first edition
...
v00.04.05.02.04  2023/02/28
     -Added new nandflash driver and original nandflash compatibility

Yes, the DS1000Z got some continued attention (even some added functionality) for many years. But it must have been Rigol's best-selling scope for years, probably until quite recently. I don't see the DHO1000 and 4000 series having the same success in the market: Without any AWG and logic analyser options, they are just too limited in this market segment.

The "fire sale" of the DHO1000 series in November/December also suggests that those models have not been selling well. So I would expect this scope range to be replaced relatively soon, maybe by DHO2000 and 5000 models which have the missing options. On the lower end, Rigol have already launched the DHO1000-U in China, a cost-optimised replacement with slightly worse specs.

With some luck, the successor models will be close enough to the current platform, such that Rigol also spins off a firmware version for the DHO1000 and 4000 series occasionally. But I would not expect anywhere near the level of long-term support the DS1000Z received.

[RobbiOne]

It seems like a new User Manual v2.0 is available for DHO1000 at international Rigol WEB site https://supportint.rigol.com/ but the download link needs an account that it is impossible to active. EU and Japan Rigol WEB sites have still the v1.0.

[core]

It seems like a new User Manual v2.0 is available for DHO1000 at international Rigol WEB site https://supportint.rigol.com/ but the download link needs an account that it is impossible to active. EU and Japan Rigol WEB sites have still the v1.0.

Thanks for the tip !
I've dowloaded it. The manual it's dated December 2022. The previous I have is dated Octomber 2022.
But is seems it have the same size, contents list and page numbers. Size is about 19.2MB.
I've searched randomly and I didn't find any changes ...

I can't attach it, maximum allowed is 8000k. Sorry ... 
I will attach a screen capture regarding the fist page.

[RobbiOne]

Rigol firmware is a mess from USA, Japan, Eu and Int WEB sites: same FW with different release dates, no versions aligned. Now the same mess is for the manuals: v1 on EU, v2 on int. and v3 on Japan site. Please, please, Rigol be serious (and professional), stop that stupid mess at all!

[capslock]

DHO4404 on Amazon.de warehouse for € 3074 - 20% at checkout = € 2459 including VAT. Still too expensive for me as a hobbyist, but maybe someone is tempted?

[ebastler]

I would expect another fire sale of the DHO1000 and 4000 sooner or later. Rigol must be working on a successor with MSO capability. Otherwise, how are they going to compete against Siglent's SDS1000, 2000 and 3000X HD?

[Veteran68]

I got a totally random email from Rigol NA this morning. I didn't even buy from Rigol directly, I bought from Saelig. I did register the warranty as I recall, so guess that's why. That's a first from any test equipment manufacturer (granted, this is my only Rigol instrument, so maybe this is common for them).

Hello David,

I wanted to touch base and offer our support regarding any technical queries or challenges you may have with your DHO1074. Whether it's troubleshooting or general guidance, our team is here to assist you every step of the way.

Additionally, if you have any further needs or are considering other products or services, we're here to help. Your feedback is invaluable to us as we strive to enhance our services.

Best,
Wei Zheng

Technical Sales Engineer
RIGOL Technologies
10220 SW Nimbus Ave.
Suite K-7
Portland, OR 97223
Office/fax: (440)232-4488 Ext.113
Email: Wei.Zheng@rigol.com

RIGOL’s Running Promotion: click Here

[ebastler]

I got a totally random email from Rigol NA this morning. I didn't even buy from Rigol directly, I bought from Saelig. I did register the warranty as I recall, so guess that's why. That's a first from any test equipment manufacturer (granted, this is my only Rigol instrument, so maybe this is common for them).

It was just the same for me with Rigol Europe -- no, wait! It was the other way round. I sent them emails. Four times, over the course of three weeks. And then I actually received a reply.

I guess the service culture varies a bit across their regional organisations. 

[capslock]

The DHO4404 on amazon.de warehouse has been -30% for nearly a week now and still no takers.

[core]

I have received the below news from Rigol, see the attached screen capture.

The following link for USA :

https://www.rigolna.com/promos/?utm_campaign=DHO1000%20PROMO%20EMAIL%20-%20032724&utm_medium=email&utm_source=AHA