Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 12bit oscilloscopes launched in China

[normi]

The HDO1000 looks like its the long awaited replacement for the current DS1000z series. I assume the price point will be around the $400 mark, and most likely will be hackable to 200MHz.

HDO4000 would likely be replacement for DS4000 series and would be way more expensive that MSO5000 series. Possible starting in the $2000+ range. These prices I would guess would be after a year on the market, I am only guessing. Siglent is always on the move so expect to see some new scopes from them in response.   

[Domitronic]

The HDO1000 looks like its the long awaited replacement for the current DS1000z series. I assume the price point will be around the $400 mark, and most likely will be hackable to 200MHz.

HDO4000 would likely be replacement for DS4000 series and would be way more expensive that MSO5000 series. Possible starting in the $2000+ range. These prices I would guess would be after a year on the market, I am only guessing. Siglent is always on the move so expect to see some new scopes from them in response.

I doubt that HDO1000 is in the price range of DS1000z. The prices for China are already much higher. And i would guess it will be even more in US/EU:

HDO1074: 5999 RMB =   889 USD =   869 EUR
HDO1104: 7999 RMB = 1185 USD = 1159 EUR
HDO1204: 9999 RMB = 1481 USD = 1449 EUR

All prices plus tax.

[normi]

I saw those prices, but we clearly know that a replacement for the DS1000Z is needed, so they may come out with 50MHz version and the launch prices are always well above the final sale prices. Rigol has always been revolutionary in producing low cost scopes with high end features.

DS1052E first low cost "real scope", this is still being sold.
DS1000Z first low cost 4 Channel Scope
MDO5000 first relatively low cost 8G/s scope.

So what ever they are launching has to come with something extra.

[Fungus]

DS1052E first low cost "real scope", this is still being sold.

And still outselling all the Siglents on Batronix:

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/DSO.html   (list sorted by sales rank)

(Ducks under table...)

nb. It was also outselling the Rigol DS1054Z until quite recently.

[Domitronic]

DS1052E first low cost "real scope", this is still being sold.

And still outselling all the Siglents on Batronix:

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/DSO.html   (list sorted by sales rank)

(Ducks under table...)

nb. It was also outselling the Rigol DS1054Z until quite recently.

How do you know this list is sorted by sales rank? To me it doesn't look like it is.

[Fungus]

How do you know this list is sorted by sales rank? To me it doesn't look like it is.

It says "Position" at the top, to the right of "Sorting".

Other choices are "Price", "Manufacturer"... etc.

[Domitronic]

Yes, exactly, but position is not sales rank. Do you really believe every single DS1000 is sold more often than any other brand? Or that the full-package special offer RTB-2k COM4 from R&S is the one which has the least quantity even though standard models have less features for higher price? I'm sure this is not sorted by sales rank.

[Martin72]

Maybe tomorrow we will know it - I´ve simply asked them a few hours ago.

[Fungus]

Yes, exactly, but position is not sales rank.

Says who?

What else could it be? They certainly aren't ordered by manufacturer or price.

It's a German company so "position" could be the translation.

Do you really believe every single DS1000 is sold more often than any other brand?

Sure, why not? It's famous and it's the cheapest one.

I wouldn't presume to predict what the average person buys. Not everybody reads EEVBLOG or knows the difference beyond price/channels/bandwidth. I'd bet that price is the most important factor.

Plus: I know for a fact that the list changes. The DS1052E has been at the top for the last 10 years or so but the DS1054Z has been cheaper for the last few months so it makes sense it would finally overtake it.

[Fungus]

Maybe tomorrow we will know it - I´ve simply asked them a few hours ago.

Let's see... 

(although I really don't know what else it could be)

[hhappy1]

I think all 12bit scope should have an fft average.

Rigol right?

[Performa01]

Yes, exactly, but position is not sales rank.

Says who?

What else could it be? They certainly aren't ordered by manufacturer or price.

It's a German company so "position" could be the translation.

Do you really believe every single DS1000 is sold more often than any other brand?

Sure, why not? It's famous and it's the cheapest one.

I wouldn't presume to predict what the average person buys. Not everybody reads EEVBLOG or knows the difference beyond price/channels/bandwidth. I'd bet that price is the most important factor.

Plus: I know for a fact that the list changes. The DS1052E has been at the top for the last 10 years or so but the DS1054Z has been cheaper for the last few months so it makes sense it would finally overtake it.

According to your compelling logic, then there must be for instance more people buying a € 28.560,- R&S RTE1204 than any of the Micsigs - even though we've just learnt (from you) that price is paramount. In fact, this would also mean that anything except the R&S Scope Riders sells better than the Micsigs. Interesting view 

[nomead]

It looks like the sorting is combination of portability and bragging factor. What comes to bragging factor emphasis is on western brand. That why Scope Rider is placed last.

[Fungus]

According to your compelling logic, then there must be for instance more people buying a € 28.560,- R&S RTE1204 than any of the Micsigs - even though we've just learnt (from you) that price is paramount. In fact, this would also mean that anything except the R&S Scope Riders sells better than the Micsigs. Interesting view 

You have a better theory? Please post it.

Note that the TEquipment list isn't radically different and it actually says "Best Sellers" on that one:

https://www.tequipment.net/oscilloscopes/digital-oscilloscopes/#/oscilloscopes/digital-oscilloscopes/features_best-seller/?F_Sort=10

[nctnico]

According to your compelling logic, then there must be for instance more people buying a € 28.560,- R&S RTE1204 than any of the Micsigs - even though we've just learnt (from you) that price is paramount. In fact, this would also mean that anything except the R&S Scope Riders sells better than the Micsigs. Interesting view 

You have a better theory? Please post it.

Note that the TEquipment list isn't radically different and it actually says "Best Sellers" on that one:

https://www.tequipment.net/oscilloscopes/digital-oscilloscopes/#/oscilloscopes/digital-oscilloscopes/features_best-seller/?F_Sort=10

And you believe everything they say in commercials?
Sort on position means: sort on the order in which the items are in a database. So for sure you get the oldest entries on top.
Bestsellers means: what we would like to get rid of.

Both are intended to sucker people into believing a product is popular.

Look at the number of reviews when using your link. Two products which sell well, should have an almost equal number of reviews. Now go and look at the number of reviews versus the 'bestseller' ranking. There is a huge difference!

[Fungus]

The question was this: "Do you really believe every single DS1000 is sold more often than any other brand?"

Yes, I absolutely do.  It's famous, it's cheap, it ticks all the boxes.

Look at the number of reviews when using your link. Two products which sell well, should have an almost equal number of reviews.

OK, let's take a random sample and see:

Rigol DS1054Z - 514 reviews
Rigol DS1104Z - 16 reviews         (you'd be insane to buy this, right? It's the same as a DS1054Z but as expensive as a Siglent SDS1104X-E!)
Siglent SDS1104X-E - 5 reviews  (which I'm  frequently told is the only one of these three worth owning!  )

By your own math the Rigol is outselling the Siglent by a factor of 100. Even the stupid DS1104Z is outselling it by a factor of 3.

[Martin72]

On the welectron page, you can sort explicit by bestsellers.
But it makes less sense as they only sell siglent scopes..
And it´s no surprise that the cheaper models are on top.
What rigol concerns I have no doubt about it, that the DS1000Z series are the most selling ones on the planet. 
Under hobbyists.
Afaik it was the first cheap AND usable 4-ch scope, this you can´t beat normally even when other brands models do some things better.
Same with the MSO5000 from rigol what features and samplerate/memory concerns.
Same with the RTB2000 from R&S, as the first "cheap" hi-res scope.
When you can choose between models with nearly the same price, you will choose the "better" one (for you).
Otherwise the price itself will decide.
So it won´t be a surprise when the forthcoming rigol hdo1000 will be selling better than the hdo 4000 or the siglent sds2000hd.

[nctnico]

The question was this: "Do you really believe every single DS1000 is sold more often than any other brand?"

Yes, I absolutely do.  It's famous, it's cheap, it ticks all the boxes.

Look at the number of reviews when using your link. Two products which sell well, should have an almost equal number of reviews.

OK, let's take a random sample and see:

Rigol DS1054Z - 514 reviews
Rigol DS1104Z - 16 reviews         (you'd be insane to buy this, right? It's the same as a DS1054Z but as expensive as a Siglent SDS1104X-E!)
Siglent SDS1104X-E - 5 reviews  (which I'm  frequently told is the only one of these three worth owning!  )

By your own math the Rigol is outselling the Siglent by a factor of 100. Even the stupid DS1104Z is outselling it by a factor of 3.

Quite possible. A lot of people don't check specs but just buy what others are recommending based on old data. Just look at how often the outdated ds1054z is still recommended on this forum.

Also consider that there might be places where gear from other brands is cheaper so 'bestsellers' still gives you no actual information at all.

[Fungus]

'bestsellers' still gives you no actual information at all.

I never said it did.

All I said was that the Rigol DS1052E is still selling in large quantities, eg. Batronix appears to sell more of them than any Siglent and until very recently it was the #1 seller on Batronix.

[thm_w]

Photoelectric encoders, 1.5Mwfms, and 10" screen feels a bit too premium to be on their lowest cost scope. But the limitations of 250MS/s, no probe detect, and no 50 ohm aren't amazing.
Its probably going to be at that $899 USD price for a long time, like the MSO5074 has been at $999.

Maybe makes some sense to differentiate their mid market, which scope to get: what are you mostly working on? Analog = HDO1000, Digital = MSO5000.

Photoelectric encoder
Standard photoelectric encoder, 34 years long service life, protect your fixed assets.

[Fungus]

...the limitations of 250MS/s

Surely they must limit the bandwidth of the 200MHz model when you turn on 4 channels.

250MS/s isn't enough.

[nimish]

https://ecmobile.rigol.com/goods/detail?goods_id=153

Price of 200MHz sans 13% VAT: 2,372.26 USD / 15999 CNY

https://ecmobile.rigol.com/goods-154.html
Price of 70MHz HDO1072 : 3999 CNY = 593 USD


They are going for the throat. Building your own ADC chipset has its perks.

[Fungus]

Price of 70MHz HDO1072 : 3999 CNY = 593 USD

If the firmware is good and it can be hacked then they could take the entire sub-$1500 market with that.

[EEVblog]

Turns out I had an email from Rigol that I missed about this new scope.
I now have one on the way.

[EEVblog]

According to your compelling logic, then there must be for instance more people buying a € 28.560,- R&S RTE1204 than any of the Micsigs - even though we've just learnt (from you) that price is paramount. In fact, this would also mean that anything except the R&S Scope Riders sells better than the Micsigs. Interesting view 

You have a better theory? Please post it.

Note that the TEquipment list isn't radically different and it actually says "Best Sellers" on that one:

https://www.tequipment.net/oscilloscopes/digital-oscilloscopes/#/oscilloscopes/digital-oscilloscopes/features_best-seller/?F_Sort=10

And you believe everything they say in commercials?
Sort on position means: sort on the order in which the items are in a database. So for sure you get the oldest entries on top.
Bestsellers means: what we would like to get rid of.

Both are intended to sucker people into believing a product is popular.

Look at the number of reviews when using your link. Two products which sell well, should have an almost equal number of reviews. Now go and look at the number of reviews versus the 'bestseller' ranking. There is a huge difference!

Also could be lifetime sales. The 1054E has been around for over a decade, and was absolutely the best selling entry level digital scope for a long time. It actually pioneered the market.