Scope : wait for new models ?

[MrWolf]

you got 100MHz bandwidth with 4 channels. 

Yup, also you get near-useless-at-100MHz min 5ns timebase, and no proper ETS (which would enable sub-nanosecond resolution on repetitive signals). 
Think they crippled the thing on purpose with that timebase stuff as a hint that it's their basic scope.

[saturation]

If you have decided there are other places to buy in the EU or NL for example

https://eleshop.eu/gw-instek-gds-2204e.html [ its seems in stock]

http://www.gwinstek.com/en-GB/Page/where_to_buy

The HMO1002 would not even be on my list. Small 640x480 display and the built quality isn't very good (PCB not well supported and BNCs not bolted to the chassis). At this moment the best value for money in the 1000 to 1500 euro segment is the GW Instek GDS2204E (which has a 'lifetime' factory warranty until after 5 years they stop producing the particular model!).

Thanks, i readed your review from the GDS2204E, it says : made in Taiwan, alright.
Only it is not available at my shop, they have 17 of GW instek scopes :

[MrWolf]

No it doesn't. The analog 'scope has the same noise floor, it just doesn't show it on screen.

 

LeCroy WaveAce 102    50dB (approx)
PicoScope 5244B          68dB (8 bit mode)
PicoScope 5244B          78dB (16 bit mode)
PicoScope 4262            93dB (16 bit)

I would dot dare to event think what is DS1054Z dynamic range, if it even has one

PS. I do not hate my DS1054Z, it looks very professional. Guests are always impressed when I show my EE corner now. They weren't when I had only small blue Pico soapboxes

[Fungus]

Think they crippled the thing on purpose with that timebase stuff as a hint that it's their basic scope.

That's like saying that Ford Fiestas are deliberately crippled compared to the high end models.

Not true, it's a competitive market.

You want a better 'scope? Pay more money. It's not a difficult concept.

You want a better all-round 'scope than an unlocked DS1054Z, without paying more than 1000 Euros? Not gonna happen.

If you really, really need a good FFT or something then yes, there's better 'scopes under 1000 Euros but you'll give up a lot of other things to get that particular feature (channels, bandwidth, decoders, etc.)

[MrWolf]

That's like saying that Ford Fiestas are deliberately crippled compared to the high end models.

  Possibly you already live in our bright socialist future. I still have to deal with capitalism. *Everything* is crippled compared to what it could be if company wants to stay in business for any amount of time and has any say on the market. Look up why incandescent lightbulbs are programmed to fail and how industry achieved anyone not producing eternal bulb.

You want a better all-round 'scope than an unlocked DS1054Z,

Dude want to do audio, let's have some compassion shall we. Audio has nothing to do with 8 bit scopes unless its 5EUR Velleman amp kit 

But ok, I bail out. It's not my fight... Unless Pico sends me 6000 anytime soon, then it time.

[JPortici]

That's like saying that Ford Fiestas are deliberately crippled compared to the high end models.

May not apply to ford fiesta but there are cars that are exactly the same, mechanically speaking, between engine hp variants. they are only limited in software

pico is much much better at 1k. physical knobs are overrated

@MrWolf i did try the new beta today of the software. impressive

[Fungus]

That's like saying that Ford Fiestas are deliberately crippled compared to the high end models.

May not apply to ford fiesta but there are cars that are exactly the same, mechanically speaking, between engine hp variants. they are only limited in software

Will Ford let you unlock more horsepower?

[R_G_B_]

test gear on ebay is now getting expensive 2  or 3 years  back i got a used fluke 123 for 100 pounds now that same scope is being sold at around 4 to 5 times this price. I think mike is right test gear holds it value depending on what it is.


Tektronix, Agilent, HP, fluke do not sell for penny thats a pipe dream. Unless you are buying damaged or faulty test gear you can get them cheap in this case I agree but that can also be a risk  with test gear as they tend to use custom integrated circuits.   

I have seen people buying spectrum analyzers and network analyzers off eBay that are not guaranteed to work, being sold for well over 400 pounds that a lot of money to gamble and definitely not pennies.

With sites like this it can only help people become more interested in electronics and an increased  interest in people buying used test gear and as a consequence an increase in cost of used test gear.

[rstofer]

That's like saying that Ford Fiestas are deliberately crippled compared to the high end models.

May not apply to ford fiesta but there are cars that are exactly the same, mechanically speaking, between engine hp variants. they are only limited in software

Will Ford let you unlock more horsepower?

Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat does!
http://artofgears.com/2015/11/10/this-is-why-the-srt-hellcat-has-two-keys/

Just saying...

[rstofer]

test gear on ebay is now getting expensive 2  or 3 years  back i got a used fluke 123 for 100 pounds now that same scope is being sold at around 4 to 5 times this price. I think mike is right test gear holds it value depending on what it is.

It could also be that fewer businesses are failing in the somewhat improved economy.  Possibly less equipment is being auctioned off.  Still, there's a lot of used equipment in the pipeline.

[tautech]

That's like saying that Ford Fiestas are deliberately crippled compared to the high end models.

May not apply to ford fiesta but there are cars that are exactly the same, mechanically speaking, between engine hp variants. they are only limited in software

Will Ford let you unlock more horsepower?

Re-chip or re-map capabilities are available for nearly all variants of ECU's these days IF you know where to go.

[thm_w]

Yup, also you get near-useless-at-100MHz min 5ns timebase, and no proper ETS (which would enable sub-nanosecond resolution on repetitive signals). 
Think they crippled the thing on purpose with that timebase stuff as a hint that it's their basic scope.

Not relevant for OP.

[MrWolf]

Not relevant for OP.

Proper ETS is always relevant.

But on the other hand indeed, OP has do really decide his BW requirements. If Digilent's 30MHz analog and 100MS/s (50MHz?) digital are enough then it has some killer features for the price: 2CH 14bit in, 2CH 14bit out, 16ch analyzer and 16-channel pattern generator (3.3V CMOS, 100MS/s) that suddenly got me all sweaty and wanting to buy the damn thing (so far I've used Arduinos for patterns).
Much more complex choice with Pico because they do not have >8bit MSO (do have >8bit 4ch). However reading the FFT thread - 8bit Pico seems to operate pretty much at theoretical limit so 2206B MSO at 559€ might do the trick (50MHz, 1GS/s, 32MS memory, 16ch digital 100 MHz (200 Mb/s) and >52dB SDFR @ 100kHz) ...depending on what OP means by audio. For example my good friend means gold vinyl needles made in Japan couple K€ a pop...

[2N3055]

Picotech has several models with 12 and 16 bit res (5-20 MHz bandwidth) and 5000 series that has configurable resolution up to 16 bit and up to 200MHz bandwidth...

[MrWolf]

Picotech has several models with 12 and 16 bit res (5-20 MHz bandwidth) and 5000 series that has configurable resolution up to 16 bit and up to 200MHz bandwidth...

Yea but none has 16ch digital connector...
Edit: None of the 12+ bit ones. 8 bit Pico MSOs of course have it 12+ bit high BW MSO would be good stuff to wait for in small 4 digit price range...

[tautech]

Picotech has several models with 12 and 16 bit res (5-20 MHz bandwidth) and 5000 series that has configurable resolution up to 16 bit and up to 200MHz bandwidth...

Yea but none has 16ch digital connector...

You mean like this ?



http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1542&id=1488&tid=1&T=2

Or this for the SDS1kX+

[MrWolf]

You mean like this ?

With Pico box in the middle is a bit bigger 

Pic is from good review btw:
http://codeandlife.com/2016/05/29/picoscope-2208b-mso-review/

[NorthGuy]

You mean like this ?

I wonder if it is the same probe-to-scope connector as in Rigol DS2000A?

[JPortici]

That's like saying that Ford Fiestas are deliberately crippled compared to the high end models.

May not apply to ford fiesta but there are cars that are exactly the same, mechanically speaking, between engine hp variants. they are only limited in software

Will Ford let you unlock more horsepower?

Re-chip or re-map capabilities are available for nearly all variants of ECU's these days IF you know where to go.

but then you loose warranty and if they catch you -if you don't re-map to original before an inspection for example- it can be big trouble in some countries (like here for example)
(wow i like the parallels )

[tautech]

That's like saying that Ford Fiestas are deliberately crippled compared to the high end models.

May not apply to ford fiesta but there are cars that are exactly the same, mechanically speaking, between engine hp variants. they are only limited in software

Will Ford let you unlock more horsepower?

Re-chip or re-map capabilities are available for nearly all variants of ECU's these days IF you know where to go.

but then you loose warranty and if they catch you -if you don't re-map to original before an inspection for example- it can be big trouble in some countries (like here for example)
(wow i like the parallels )

That's not always the case, a mate has just had his Ford Ranger (Iveco 5 cyl TDI) remapped to Stage 1 (of 3) and it still has factory warranty so his local Ford agent says.
He reckons it goes like a cut cat now. 

[Fungus]

That's not always the case, a mate has just had his Ford Ranger (Iveco 5 cyl TDI) remapped to Stage 1 (of 3) and it still has factory warranty so his local Ford agent says.

Suuuuure... right up until it needs some engine work under warranty.

[MrWolf]

Suuuuure... right up until it needs some engine work under warranty.

Well it all depends... Sometimes dealer sees chipping or track use as sort of advertising and its all ok. I had very fast car once. Dealers engineer did even visit track events with me to keep an eye on the tech
Some cars seem to be underpowered and "undertuned" for specific reason to grow tuning industry around them. Toyota GT86 / Subaru BRZ for example.

[zapta]

...but then you loose warranty and if they catch you -if you don't re-map to original before an inspection for example- it can be big trouble in some countries (like here for example)
(wow i like the parallels )

Yes, before the inspection you need to remap to original and install the non gutted catalytic converter. Most testers require it.

[JanJansen]

- Rigol DS1054Z set the 4 channel $400 benchmark.

Apart from that it been pretty incremental bells and whistles from the likes of new players like Siglent.

The Rigol ds1054z cost €333,02 at eleshop, very attractive price for 4 channels.
They also have Siglent, what is the best choise from Siglent ?, do they also have that fan noise ?, is Siglent a better brand to buy then Rigol ?
This is gonna save me alot of money buying Rigol or Siglent.

edit : i already see in the movie it makes less noise :

[grifftech]

get a CRO