Should I buy a BK Precision 4017A Function Generator?

[JenniferG]

Just received my copy of LAoE today and they recommend the BK Precision 4017a function generator.  It retails for $449, but I see one that looks to be in mint condition, one year old, on ebay for $175.

Should I grab this, or is my money better spent on a different function generator?  I need a good function generator for LAoE as well as for DIY Synth work (which I am told needs output/amplitude control of the output wave?)

I wouldn't mind saving a lot of money if a $50 item will do everything I need.   But I am willing to spend up to like $250 if need to.

Thanks

-Totally Clueless Newbie

[edavid]

Just received my copy of LAoE today and they recommend the BK Precision 4017a function generator.  It retails for $449, but I see one that looks to be in mint condition, one year old, on ebay for $175.

Should I grab this, or is my money better spent on a different function generator?  I need a good function generator for LAoE as well as for DIY Synth work (which I am told needs output/amplitude control of the output wave?)

I wouldn't mind saving a lot of money if a $50 item will do everything I need.   But I am willing to spend up to like $250 if need to.

No, that's too expensive.  Also, I'm not sure if you'll be able to find a service manual.

You can get a classic HP 3312A for $50-70 with some careful shopping.  It's much better than the B+K except for not having a frequency counter built in.

[JenniferG]

Just received my copy of LAoE today and they recommend the BK Precision 4017a function generator.  It retails for $449, but I see one that looks to be in mint condition, one year old, on ebay for $175.

Should I grab this, or is my money better spent on a different function generator?  I need a good function generator for LAoE as well as for DIY Synth work (which I am told needs output/amplitude control of the output wave?)

I wouldn't mind saving a lot of money if a $50 item will do everything I need.   But I am willing to spend up to like $250 if need to.

No, that's too expensive.  Also, I'm not sure if you'll be able to find a service manual.

You can get a classic HP 3312A for $50-70 with some careful shopping.  It's much better than the B+K except for not having a frequency counter built in.

So, since it doesn't have a digital display of the frequency, i.e just the analog knob, you'd need to hookup a frequency counter to it if you need it right on?   I guess you can split the output into the frequency counter and to the destination (e.g. oscilloscope) ?

Do you think the HP has fine enough control for say SYnth work, where say you are calibrating oscillators?  1v/octave.

[djnz]

Another vote for not buying it.

Also, I am not sure BK is a good company any more. Most of their stuff seems to be rebadged stuff made by some Asian OEM, but sold at premium western brand pricing. I reported a bug in an instrument months ago, easily fixable by a firmware upgrade, and all I have received is a one liner saying they will look at the email I had sent. I had given detailed instructions on how to reproduce the bug and specifically asked them to acknowledge the bug fast even if it takes them longer to fix it. So far no response about that at all. Does not inspire confidence.

[usagi]

what about making a lowball offer on one of the numerous ITT bankruptcy 25mhz rigol 1022a on ebay? i snagged one for $170.

[JenniferG]

I don't see numerous 1022a.  Lots of 1022 but not 1022a.

They are asking like $300 or best offer.  There is an auction for one currently at $98.

[MarkF]

What about one of the Pico Scopes (2204A or 2206B) with waveform generator built-in.

      http://www.tequipment.net/Pico/2204A/PC-Based-Oscilloscopes/?v=7404

I don't have any personal experience with these. Maybe someone else can give you a thumbs up or down.
Or even build one if you're so inclined. I'm currently laying out a PCB centered around an AD9834 and a PIC18F2550.

Edit.  Included photo of test rig.

[usagi]

I don't see numerous 1022a.  Lots of 1022 but not 1022a.

They are asking like $300 or best offer.  There is an auction for one currently at $98.

try offering $200 on the best offer one and see if they bite. could get lucky, i did. seller has 7 of them and probably wants to get rid of them.

or follow the auction. i'd bid up to $180.

[ebastler]

I'm currently laying out a PCB centered around an AD9834 and a PIC18F2550.
Edit.  Included photo of test rig.

Hey, that looks pretty neat and compact! I like the little display. 

What are you planning to do for the power supply? The +5, +-12 supply might get in the way of the nice "pocket" form factor. Wouldn't it make sense to include boost converters on the PCB? (How much current does it draw overall? Would battery power be a realistic option?)

[MarkF]

The PCB is just over 3"x3". I never thought about making it portable. I rarely need a function generator and it started out more of a toy than anything. It will probably end up in a box with connections for my bench power supplies.

I would like to keep the board small. Maybe a separate power supply board...

The display is a 1.27" Color OLED from Adafruit.    https://www.adafruit.com/products/1673

[asadullah mir]

I own both a B&K 4017 and a B&K 2017. I highly recommend giving them the miss.
Reasons;
1.   Very poor waveform above about half the rated max freq.
2.    B&K have kept service information under wraps. No schematics available and B&K refuse to issue one, upon request. Repair is a bitch and I would rather give them away than attempt a repair.
3.   They do have frequency meters built in but at fixed 0.1Sec 1 Sec and 10 Sec gate time, the resolution accuracy and speed are abysmal.
4.   They drift like a rudderless ship at sea.  Freq stability is next to none.

I suggest you look at something like say a S3200s they can be had for as little as 50US$ and the performance is miles above B&K. Take a look at some YT videos and you will know more.
I will give away my two B&K free if someone will pay for the freight charges.
I live in Pakistan so it might be that the SY3200 will cost less to get.

[ebastler]

The PCB is just over 3"x3". I never thought about making it portable. I rarely need a function generator and it started out more of a toy than anything. It will probably end up in a box with connections for my bench power supplies.

I would like to keep the board small. Maybe a separate power supply board...

The display is a 1.27" Color OLED from Adafruit.    https://www.adafruit.com/products/1673

The PCB is just over 3"x3". I never thought about making it portable. I rarely need a function generator and it started out more of a toy than anything. It will probably end up in a box with connections for my bench power supplies.

I would like to keep the board small. Maybe a separate power supply board...

The display is a 1.27" Color OLED from Adafruit.    https://www.adafruit.com/products/1673

Agree, a separate power supply board would be a good solution. Keeps things flexible, for various poer supply options. The spare room below the main board, next to the BNC jacks, should be adequate for that. -- Have you laid out the PCB with a particular enclosure in mind?

That OLED display is quite nice indeed (altough not cheap!).

Anyway, if you should decide to publish your design and code eventually, I would be quite interested in building one of these!

[iainwhite]

I don't see numerous 1022a.  Lots of 1022 but not 1022a.

They are asking like $300 or best offer.  There is an auction for one currently at $98.

I bought a 1022A  from an ebay user called "TryC2"    - got it for $159 + ship
Most of his stock is the non-A version, but I think he has one A model on offer

[edavid]

You can get a classic HP 3312A for $50-70 with some careful shopping.  It's much better than the B+K except for not having a frequency counter built in.

So, since it doesn't have a digital display of the frequency, i.e just the analog knob, you'd need to hookup a frequency counter to it if you need it right on?   I guess you can split the output into the frequency counter and to the destination (e.g. oscilloscope) ?

Right.  It has a sync output for just that purpose.

Do you think the HP has fine enough control for say SYnth work, where say you are calibrating oscillators?  1v/octave.

Why would you use a function generator to calibrate a VCO?  Wouldn't you use a voltage source?

[MarkF]

The PCB is just over 3"x3". I never thought about making it portable. I rarely need a function generator and it started out more of a toy than anything. It will probably end up in a box with connections for my bench power supplies.

I would like to keep the board small. Maybe a separate power supply board...

The display is a 1.27" Color OLED from Adafruit.    https://www.adafruit.com/products/1673

Agree, a separate power supply board would be a good solution. Keeps things flexible, for various poer supply options. The spare room below the main board, next to the BNC jacks, should be adequate for that. -- Have you laid out the PCB with a particular enclosure in mind?

That OLED display is quite nice indeed (altough not cheap!).

Anyway, if you should decide to publish your design and code eventually, I would be quite interested in building one of these!

Anyone interested can PM me their email address and I will send them all my design files.

[David Hess]

So, since it doesn't have a digital display of the frequency, i.e just the analog knob, you'd need to hookup a frequency counter to it if you need it right on?   I guess you can split the output into the frequency counter and to the destination (e.g. oscilloscope) ?

Right.  It has a sync output for just that purpose.

The better analog function generators have a number of inputs and outputs which are missing on modern DDS function generators.  For instance the VCO input, ramp output, and sweep sync output can be used in combination with an oscilloscope to make a low frequency network analyser.

On my old B&K function generator, I rebuilt the sync output into a fast reference level output for calibrating 100 MHz oscilloscopes.

[nidlaX]

I don't see numerous 1022a.  Lots of 1022 but not 1022a.

They are asking like $300 or best offer.  There is an auction for one currently at $98.

Offer $100 for a few sellers. I'm sure you'll get a response.

Another decent function generator you can keep an eye out for is the BNC 625 / Telulex SG100.

[rstofer]

Unless you can fix it, I don't recommend buying much from eBay.  Every time I buy something I worry that it won't work and, so far, I have been lucky.  Maybe...

The Analog Discovery has better specs and dual channels plus it will do arbitrary waveforms (stuff you make up) and the BK won't.  It has adjustable output voltage, of course, and it will generate sweeps.  Output is adjustable from 10mV P-P up to 10V P-P  Max frequency is 10 MHz

Download the software and play with it - just select the AD 2 Demo Device.  See if it has any utility.  In my view, it is the very best way to instrument LTAoE until you get into dual supply op amps (+-15) and, for that, you need a decent power supply.  The AD will only provide up to +-5V which would still be ok for modern op amps.

The Analog Discovery also has much more capability than the LTAoE recommended Global Specialties PB-503 prototype in terms of digital IO, logic analyzer capability, scope, signal generator - pretty much everything:
http://www.globalspecialties.com/electronics-trainers/analog-a-digital-circuit-design-trainers/97-pb-503.html

[bitseeker]

I'm not a fan of B+K gear. As mentioned, their stuff is just rebadged versions of other companies' products with a premium tacked onto the price tag.

The HP 3312A is a nice analog function generator. Tabor also makes nice generators, which have been rebadged by Wavetek, Fluke, etc.

For an inexpensive 2-channel DDS and frequency counter, there's the FeelTech FY3224S. There's a thread here about it.

However, you should consider the Analog Discovery that rstofer has mentioned several times. It'll cover most of the general-purpose needs at a nice price.

[JenniferG]

I'm not a fan of B+K gear. As mentioned, their stuff is just rebadged versions of other companies' products with a premium tacked onto the price tag.

The HP 3312A is a nice analog function generator. Tabor also makes nice generators, which have been rebadged by Wavetek, Fluke, etc.

For an inexpensive 2-channel DDS and frequency counter, there's the FeelTech FY3224S. There's a thread here about it.

However, you should consider the Analog Discovery that rstofer has mentioned several times. It'll cover most of the general-purpose needs at a nice price.

I guess the AD would also eliminate the need for the logic probe the book recommends?  It has 16 channels of logic probing right?  So I could monitor what's going on in a digital circuit between a microcontroler/microprocessor and other IC's.

[GreyWoolfe]

There is a HP 3312A for $40 + $25 for shipping

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-3312A-/302239000847?hash=item465ed9290f:g:1KAAAOSwCU1Ytwre

[bitseeker]

I guess the AD would also eliminate the need for the logic probe the book recommends?  It has 16 channels of logic probing right?  So I could monitor what's going on in a digital circuit between a microcontroler/microprocessor and other IC's.

Correct. It's a nice bundle of functionality for educational purposes, which is what it was made for.

[JenniferG]

I see AD and AD 2.  Which one to get?  I see some used AD for $187.  But who knows if they blew up some sub-component of it or not.  I probably wouldnt' be smart enough to test all the features in the amount of time needed to be able to return it if it is defective.

[bitseeker]

If you don't intend to buy used, then get an AD2 (many improvements over the AD). Either should be fine for LtAoE.

[rstofer]

I'm not a fan of B+K gear. As mentioned, their stuff is just rebadged versions of other companies' products with a premium tacked onto the price tag.

The HP 3312A is a nice analog function generator. Tabor also makes nice generators, which have been rebadged by Wavetek, Fluke, etc.

For an inexpensive 2-channel DDS and frequency counter, there's the FeelTech FY3224S. There's a thread here about it.

However, you should consider the Analog Discovery that rstofer has mentioned several times. It'll cover most of the general-purpose needs at a nice price.

I guess the AD would also eliminate the need for the logic probe the book recommends?  It has 16 channels of logic probing right?  So I could monitor what's going on in a digital circuit between a microcontroler/microprocessor and other IC's.

Not only will the AD function as a logic analyzer, it will also allow you to simulate switches and LEDs.  Look at the Static IO feature.

The AD will also decode RS232, I2C and SPI buses which will be very handy when working on micros.

On the digital side, the device really wants to talk to 3.3V logic.  It will tolerate 5V inputs but I don't think it will output enough voltage to trigger 5V logic.  There are ways to deal with that (like a simple transistor) but micros these days are primarily 3.3V  The Arduino, OTOH, is typically 5V so some type of level shifting on Arduino inputs (AD outputs) will probably be required.  You can use a simple transistor inverter.

Or, spend $3 on a pair of logic level shifters.  Configure one for input to Arduino and one for output from Arduino and shift up to 8 signals each way.  You can mount these on one end of the prototype board and just leave them installed.  Patch them when you need them.

https://www.adafruit.com/product/735

Then there is the Digilent Adept library.  You can use the library to create custom applications using one of the Visual Studio platforms.  Build your own panel for a custom project, etc.

While you are at Digilent, consider some 2x6 or 1x6 headers.  Plug these into the breadboard and the AD cables will fit right on.  I am tending toward 2x6 just in case I want to use the signal generator output to my circuit while connecting to the scope input.
http://store.digilentinc.com/all-products/accessories/connectors-and-cables/