Siglent SDS1102CNL scope

[Wuerstchenhund]

I can't believe I really did it!  I really actually bought a Siglent SDS1102CNL scope from a Chinese seller.

For a project I found that I needed a second scope. The task is simple so essentially any scope above 20MHz would do. I even considered some old analog clunker from ebay, but the prices for analog scopes other than those which have been made at some point in the 1930's and which come with banana plug inputs, and scopes that are sold as 'can't test', were simply eye watering. I also didn't like the idea of having a large antique sitting around and taking space, so at the end I found myself looking at cheap Chinese scopes.

Rigol's DS1000 Series is cheap but butt ugly (yes, I somewhat care about looks, because I have to look at that thing when using it!), and comes with a tiny screen. I know it's still a common recommendation but as Dave often said later on just because he recommended it a few years ago does mean he would do so today. Uni-T fell through because of their questionable specs and their lack of regard for non-Asian countries (just look at their English web site). Atten is known to be cheap and shit but I found it wasn't that cheap compared to some Siglent offerings. At the end, I found a cheap Siglent DS1102CNL at £209 including shipping. There is also the CML variant which comes with 2M instead of 32k of sampling memory but the additional £40-60 wasn't worth it.

The scope should arrive next week so if anyone wants me to test something or provide some pictures or a review then let me know. I won't do a teardown, though. But as this scope uses the same firmware as the CML variant which is also sold by LeCroy I will probably try to flash the LeCroy firmware into the scope.

[Wuerstchenhund]

The scope came today (Saturday delivery, wow!), and the first impression is really positive. The haptic quality is very good, only the knobs feel a bit cheap. It's also very silent for a DSO.

I already flashed the LeCroy WaveAce 1000 firmware which works fine on that scope as expected.

For that price (£209 incl. shipping) not a bad result.

[hgg]

Great!

I am waiting the CML from Germany.   

How bad are the knobs?
Is the LeCroy firmware better?  Any photos?  What about the display?  Is it good?

[Wuerstchenhund]

How bad are the knobs?

Not bad. They (the knobs themselves, not the encoders) just feel a little bit cheap (I would have preferred a bit more texturing).

Is the LeCroy firmware better?

No, not really. At the end of the day it's the same firmware as the original Siglent firmware (both are made by Siglent, LeCroy only provides the name anyways). LeCroy at least provides some changelog, though.

However, since the LeCroy WaveAce 1000 is actually a Siglent SDS1000CML (not the CNL) I now have a setting to enable half speed memory (which I guess my CNL doesn't have). So far however I haven't seen any drawbacks.

And one can easily flash back and forth between Siglent and LeCroy firmware anyways.

Any photos?  What about the display?  Is it good?

The display is quite good, albeit it has a lower resolution (480x234) than a modern smartphone. But it's nice and clear, the menu structure is good as well, overall a nice entry level scope and certainly worth its money.

If I find time in the next days I'll do a more thorough review with pictures.

[hgg]

Sounds nice!
Can't wait to test it.

[saturation]

Gives us a detailed review with pics, when able.  If you could also tests is rise time or frequency response, plus how well it triggers it would help.  Enjoy.

[Smithy]

The scope came today (Saturday delivery, wow!), and the first impression is really positive. The haptic quality is very good, only the knobs feel a bit cheap. It's also very silent for a DSO.

I already flashed the LeCroy WaveAce 1000 firmware which works fine on that scope as expected.

For that price (£209 incl. shipping) not a bad result.

Interesting,

ive just ordered a S61LPS51236A-200TQLI ram chip to solder into  my SDS1102CNL in the hope that it can be hacked to the deep memory CML version.
I was going to go to the expense of buying the 48TSOP adaptor for my TL866CS programmer(£25), delsoldering the flash and backing it up before trying to upgrade the firmware. But based on what your saying I might not bother with the extra expense.

Do you mind telling me what hardware version you have?
I have 11-62-3.3 which came with the latest firmware 5.01.02.13.

after comparing the CNL AND CML's latest firmwares(version 5.01.02.13) The .ADS file are exactly the same the only differences are in the .CFG files....

Is there any particular reason you flashed it with the lecroy firmware?
And what version would that be?

and was this a two part process? .ADS file first followed by .CFG?

Cheers,

Smithy

[rf-loop]

Gives us a detailed review with pics, when able.  If you could also tests is rise time or frequency response, plus how well it triggers it would help.  Enjoy.

Yes, also waiting how other peoples real tests match with these biased sellers tests.

Tests with version 10-62-3.3  SDS1102CML
Also there can find this old version internal images. Nice to look if there is any big changes.
(CML is "exactly" same as CNL in all things exept what are related to 1+1M (2M) memory.)

(but these tests been made using old  PCB version 10.  Now there is new PCB version 11. (I have not yet ready with new tests using PCB version 11. (yes there is some tests but not yet all due to lack of time)

[Robomeds]

I'm really interested in the information regarding reflashing these units.  I just recieved a Waveace 1001.  It has the 1mb of memory but only a 40mhz bandwidth.  I assume the bandwidth is software only.  Perhaps changing over to Siglent FW would enable the extra bandwidth.  Anyway, I don't have answers but I'm following this as well!

Thanks!

[Smithy]

I'm really interested in the information regarding reflashing these units.  I just recieved a Waveace 1001.  It has the 1mb of memory but only a 40mhz bandwidth.  I assume the bandwidth is software only.  Perhaps changing over to Siglent FW would enable the extra bandwidth.  Anyway, I don't have answers but I'm following this as well!

Thanks!

I doubt it. It looks like Lecroy have a single firmware for all of the 1000 series.

Smithy

[Robomeds]

What about putting the Siglent FW into the LeCroy?

[Rick]

I have bought an SDS1102CML recently form a local seller cheaper than on ebay.
The seller recommended Hantek.
It looks like Siglent is slower than Hantek. When I click on "Auto" I have to wait several secondes before it adjusts the amplitudes.
Besides that after I did compensation on the probes for x10 mode, I have found something dodgy with the amplitude in 1x mode. I shall show it in a video hopefully.

[Deckert]

I have bought an SDS1102CML recently form a local seller cheaper than on ebay.
Besides that after I did compensation on the probes for x10 mode, I have found something dodgy with the amplitude in 1x mode. I shall show it in a video hopefully.

Did you upgrade to the latest firmware that is available for the Siglents? Check your hardware version before you do the upgrade (post here if you're unsure if your hardware will be new enough).

--deckert

[Rick]

I have bought an SDS1102CML recently form a local seller cheaper than on ebay.
Besides that after I did compensation on the probes for x10 mode, I have found something dodgy with the amplitude in 1x mode. I shall show it in a video hopefully.

Did you upgrade to the latest firmware that is available for the Siglents? Check your hardware version before you do the upgrade (post here if you're unsure if your hardware will be new enough).

--deckert

When I got it I checked and the firmware was newer than what was available on Siglent's website at that time.
I shall check again. Thanks.

[Rick]

My hardware version is: 11-62-3.3
The firmware version I have is: 5.01.02.13
So it is the latest one. It came with that version.

[Robomeds]

So how does the Siglent system make sure you upload the correct firmware type?  I mean how does it check that you are uploading the 70mhz vs 100mhz FW? 

[hgg]

Maybe the firmware configuration file has a check routine as well.   
File: Siglent_CML.cfg

[Wuerstchenhund]

So how does the Siglent system make sure you upload the correct firmware type?  I mean how does it check that you are uploading the 70mhz vs 100mhz FW?

The firmware Is not bandwidth dependent. There is only one firmware for all models (except the 200MHz CNL variant) of SDS1000CNL and SDS1000CML. This firmware comes with a Series dependent config file (there's one for the CNL, and one for the CML).  Flashing the CML firmware into a CNL model will make it a CML variant (of course the long memory only works if the memory is actually on the PCB).

The firmware for SDS1202CNL is different than for the other CNL models because this scope has different hardware (and only 5k sample memory).

The firmware from LeCroy 5.01.02.20 is essentially the same as Siglent's 5.01.02.13. Again, it's only one firmware and one cfg file for all WaveAce 1000 Series scopes.

I doubt that the bandwidth can be changed through the firmware. It's probably stored in some nvram on the system board.

[Smithy]

The firmware from LeCroy 5.01.02.20 is essentially the same as Siglent's 5.01.02.13. Again, it's only one firmware and one cfg file for all WaveAce 1000 Series scopes.

I doubt that the bandwidth can be changed through the firmware. It's probably stored in some nvram on the system board.

Actually I did a quick compared the Lecroy and siglent firmwares .ADS and .CFG and they appear to be almost completely different. Plus the lecroy .ADS is slighty longer(cant remeber by how much).

Maybe the 5.01.02.20 firmware is a completely new rewrite by lecroy or commissioned by lecroy?

Anyway my rams turned up today so by the end of the evening I will either have a CNL fully upgraded to a CML or a very expensive door stop.

Wish me luck.

Smithy

[rf-loop]

The firmware from LeCroy 5.01.02.20 is essentially the same as Siglent's 5.01.02.13. Again, it's only one firmware and one cfg file for all WaveAce 1000 Series scopes.

I doubt that the bandwidth can be changed through the firmware. It's probably stored in some nvram on the system board.

Actually I did a quick compared the Lecroy and siglent firmwares .ADS and .CFG and they appear to be almost completely different. Plus the lecroy .ADS is slighty longer(cant remeber by how much).

Maybe the 5.01.02.20 firmware is a completely new rewrite by lecroy or commissioned by lecroy?

Anyway my rams turned up today so by the end of the evening I will either have a CNL fully upgraded to a CML or a very expensive door stop.

Wish me luck.

Smithy

It is also possible we can wait soon Siglent FW update if this LeCroy is now more new.
VIP customer first (LeCroy is very important customer for Siglent).

[Wuerstchenhund]

Actually I did a quick compared the Lecroy and siglent firmwares .ADS and .CFG and they appear to be almost completely different. Plus the lecroy .ADS is slighty longer(cant remeber by how much).

The firmware *file* is different of course due to LeCroy spefic changes (branding, certain strings and settings) but the base firmware set on which it has been built on is the same as the Siglent firmware.

Maybe the 5.01.02.20 firmware is a completely new rewrite by lecroy or commissioned by lecroy?

No, it isn't. It's definitely not a rewrite, and LeCroy does essentially zilch themselves on the WaveAce scopes (it's bought ready to sell on by Siglent). And Siglent just modifies its standard firmware set in accordance with what their OEM customers (LeCroy is not their only customer for scopes and AWGs) have ordered in terms of disabled functionality (i.e. LeCroys WaveStation AWGs lack the counter functionality found in the original Siglent SDG1000 AWGs) and branding.

Anyway my rams turned up today so by the end of the evening I will either have a CNL fully upgraded to a CML or a very expensive door stop.

Good luck!

[Robomeds]

So how does the Siglent system make sure you upload the correct firmware type?  I mean how does it check that you are uploading the 70mhz vs 100mhz FW?

The firmware Is not bandwidth dependent. There is only one firmware for all models (except the 200MHz CNL variant) of SDS1000CNL and SDS1000CML. This firmware comes with a Series dependent config file (there's one for the CNL, and one for the CML).  Flashing the CML firmware into a CNL model will make it a CML variant (of course the long memory only works if the memory is actually on the PCB).

The firmware for SDS1202CNL is different than for the other CNL models because this scope has different hardware (and only 5k sample memory).

The firmware from LeCroy 5.01.02.20 is essentially the same as Siglent's 5.01.02.13. Again, it's only one firmware and one cfg file for all WaveAce 1000 Series scopes.

I doubt that the bandwidth can be changed through the firmware. It's probably stored in some nvram on the system board.

Thanks for the info!

[Smithy]

Well, the deed was done yesterday. Chip soldered and firmware was reflashed to the latest Siglent CML.
Deep memory seems to work as expected except for the fact that it is disabled when using single shot triggering. I have no idea if this is to be expected as this is the first time i've had a scope with deep memory.

I try'ed the latest Lecroy firmware to see if that would change any thing but the scope still acts the same. As soon as you select single shot deep memory is disabled in the same way that the scope bandwidth limits when you get down to the lowest V/div.

Could anyone tell me if this is expected behavior for the Siglent CML?

Cheers,

Smithy

[sorin]

where did you find "S61LPS51236A-200TQLI" ?

[Wuerstchenhund]

Well, the deed was done yesterday. Chip soldered and firmware was reflashed to the latest Siglent CML.
Deep memory seems to work as expected

Congratulations!

except for the fact that it is disabled when using single shot triggering. I have no idea if this is to be expected as this is the first time i've had a scope with deep memory.

If I remember right for the CML scope this is normal. Have you checked the manual?