Author Topic: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's  (Read 93990 times)

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #451 on: September 01, 2023, 03:06:27 pm »
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #452 on: September 01, 2023, 03:19:34 pm »
The SDG7000A is Champions League :).

Didn't notice you're bound to Europa League.  :)
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #453 on: September 01, 2023, 10:24:49 pm »
The SDG7000A is Champions League :).

Didn't notice you're bound to Europa League.  :)

Woohoo! Go local soccer team! 😉
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Offline Andrey_Ak

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #454 on: September 27, 2023, 10:44:01 am »
Hello! Im thinking about buying an SDG6022X generator, can it be hacked to SDG6052X?

And the second question, I want to buy an oscilloscope also SIGLENT, for example SDS2104X Plus is it possible to hack SDS2104X Plus to SDS2354X Plus?

And how is SIGLENT doing with capturing a complex signal from an oscilloscope and transmitting this signal to a generator?

Im  want send a video signal to the  oscilloscope and then capture the video signal using the generator, so that can then reproduce this video signal only from the generator.
The video signal is just a static picture of the tuning table.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 01:59:46 am by Andrey_Ak »
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #455 on: September 28, 2023, 03:22:49 am »
Hello! Im thinking about buying an SDG6022X generator, can it be hacked to SDG6052X?

And the second question, I want to buy an oscilloscope also SIGLENT, for example SDS2104X Plus is it possible to hack SDS2104X Plus to SDS2354X Plus?

And how is SIGLENT doing with capturing a complex signal from an oscilloscope and transmitting this signal to a generator?

Im  want send a video signal to the  oscilloscope and then capture the video signal using the generator, so that can then reproduce this video signal only from the generator.
The video signal is just a static picture of the tuning table.
Been playing with this for a bit and it's not as straightforward as you might think, mainly due to the clock cycles within the waveform I believe.

Using STB-3 for the video signal which can be rock solid triggered upon with the dual Zone triggers SDS2000X Plus offers, (using SDS6204A) however memory depth needs be reduced so the captured BIN files are not overly large otherwise SDG6000X will not load them. The process is to save from the scope to USB in Binary format then use USB stick to transfer to SDG6000X and Recall the BIN file into the AWG.
CSV files can/could be used but they can be quite large however SDG6000X converts them into BIN and saves to internal memory.

Currently I have a half result however the captured waveform is not fully reconstructed correctly but suspect I need to reduce the SDS6000A sampling rate to match what SDS2000X Plus offers.

Bare with me and I'll post detailed results in due course.
Attached is what I'm working with.
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Offline Andrey_Ak

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #456 on: September 28, 2023, 03:41:27 am »
On RIGOL devices, this is done via a USB cable,
here is an example:
And there is no such thing on SIGLENT devices?
 

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #457 on: October 02, 2023, 01:40:52 pm »
SDG6022X running firmware 36R8:

1. How does a customer normally enter a Siglent provided bandwidth activation code? A menu item somewhere?

2. After liberating the IQ option (by entering key into IQ License menu), how to undo/remove/unliberate it?

3. What does an original unliberated NSP_system_info.xml file look like?

4. Does anyone else see a small temporary Frequency error after switching into or out of (liberated) IQ mode? The error disappears after fiddling with the TimeBase calibration value, or power-cycling the instrument.
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #458 on: October 02, 2023, 08:14:47 pm »
SDG6022X running firmware 36R8:

1. How does a customer normally enter a Siglent provided bandwidth activation code? A menu item somewhere?

2. After liberating the IQ option (by entering key into IQ License menu), how to undo/remove/unliberate it?

3. What does an original unliberated NSP_system_info.xml file look like?

4. Does anyone else see a small temporary Frequency error after switching into or out of (liberated) IQ mode? The error disappears after fiddling with the TimeBase calibration value, or power-cycling the instrument.
1. Goto Waveforms> I/Q> License and enter activation code.
2. Not known.
3.
4. Suggest you 10 MHz ref the unit and check again.
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Offline gammaburst

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #459 on: October 03, 2023, 04:20:27 am »
1. Bandwidth (frequency limit) please. Or is the method of entering a purchased key not public knowledge?
2. Understood.
4. Not quite sure what you mean. Switching to external 10 MHz reference input would hide the problem that I'm describing with the internal clock's calibration. Does anyone else observe the problem?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 05:21:49 pm by gammaburst »
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #460 on: October 04, 2023, 12:41:24 pm »
Analog (especially RF) circuit designers like to characterize their product’s distortion performance by means of the classic dual tone intermodulation test. Since this test requires two signal sources operating at very similar frequencies and identical amplitude, two expensive signal generators would usually be required. Up to 500 MHz, a dual channel SDG6052X can serve that task and provide perfect results – if used correctly.

The main requirement for this test is a clean dual tone signal and the challenge is to combine two signals in a way that the output stages of the generators do not produce intermodulation distortion products by themselves.

If we want to utilize the full available frequency range, we can consider three different setups suitable for the full frequency range of the SDG6052X. Consequently, the following test compares three configurations:

1.   Resistive power combiner with two attenuators in the source paths from the generators.
2.   Resistive power combiner with a single attenuator at its output.
3.   Internal “Wave Combine” function with external attenuator.

The attenuators in this test are 20dB. The big advantage of this arrangement is that we need not touch the generator settings (except for frequency) and get the exact same output levels. As a consequence, the spectrum analyzer always sees the same signal level. All in all, the three tests are perfectly comparable over the entire frequency range.

I’ve tested both 4 MHz (low frequency) and 400 MHz (high frequency), as we can expect the generator performance to degrade at higher frequencies. The 2nd tone is just 10 kHz above the first one. An automatic Intermodulation measurement has been used to get the results quickly and accurately.

Let’s start with the textbook approach: resistive power combiner with a 20 dB attenuator in each source path. As expected, the resulting signal is near perfect and we can measure the intermodulation performance of the spectrum analyzer, which is better than -87 dBc when both input signals are at -30 dBm level at the analyzer input.

No point in showing the 4 MHz result, the first screenshot is for 400 MHz:

SDG6052X_Ext_2x20dB_400MHz_-4dBm

Now we remove the attenuator in the source links and place a single one at the output. This way, the levels remain unchanged, but the isolation between the two generator outputs is now only 6 dB, whereas it was 46 dB before.

Not a problem at 4 MHz:

SDG6052X_Ext_1x20dB_4MHz_-4dBm

But look at 400 MHz!

SDG6052X_Ext_1x20dB_400MHz_-4dBm

The Intermodulation products are very significant at only -58 dBc now.

Finally, we can try the internal wave combine function, 4 MHz at first:

SDG6052X_Int_1x20dB_4MHz_-4dBm

Well, it works, but distortion is already significantly higher than with the external splitter. -82 dBc might be good enough for many tasks, yet it is about 6 dB worse than the worst result with external power combiner, which in turn quite likely marked the limits of the SA.

The true disaster becomes apparent if we try to use the “Wave Combine” at high frequencies – no wonder, now we have both frequencies in a single amplifier without any isolation at all. That means, we are measuring the linearity of the output buffer in the SDG6052X now, and we cannot expect it to be highly linear at 400 MHz anymore.…

SDG6052X_Int_1x20dB_400MHz_-6dBm

With only -38 dBc, this is unusable even for the most undemanding tasks. I had to reduce the output level to -6 dBm, because the SDG6052X cannot maintain the -4 dBm per channel in wave combine mode at frequencies that high. The result is valid and fully comparable nevertheless.

Verdict: As tempting the internal “Wave Combine” feature might look, its use has to be restricted to low frequencies.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2023, 01:05:26 pm by Performa01 »
 
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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #461 on: October 04, 2023, 08:22:17 pm »
Quote
1.   Resistive power combiner with two attenuators in the source paths from the generators.
2.   Resistive power combiner with a single attenuator at its output.

Even though I might not have this effect because my generator only goes up to 120Mhz anyway (I don't have a second SML01):
What do these attenuators/combiners look like that you used ?

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #462 on: October 05, 2023, 09:18:31 am »
Quote
1.   Resistive power combiner with two attenuators in the source paths from the generators.
2.   Resistive power combiner with a single attenuator at its output.

Even though I might not have this effect because my generator only goes up to 120Mhz anyway (I don't have a second SML01):
What do these attenuators/combiners look like that you used ?
As I've demonstrated, even at only 4 MHz the internal (numerical) combiner is inferior in the SDS6052X.
Chances are, that the output stage of an SDG2000X might be less powerful, hence also less linear at higher frequencies.
In any case you shouldn't take a chance and make sure you actually measure the distortion of the DUT and not your generator.

I use a fancy Suhner 4901.19A power splitter/combiner, usable up to 12.4 GHz:

https://www.distrelec.nl/en/resistive-power-divider-huber-suhner-4901-19/p/14645419

But for frequencies up to a couple hundred MHz you should be able to find other (cheaper) ones or you could build one yourself. Or stick with Mini-Circuits and get their still not cheap BNC model with 2 GHz bandwidth:

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=ZFRSC-2050%2B

The inline attenuators are Mini-Circuits VAT-20A+ (20 dB) and VAT-10A+ (10 dB). I don't think there would be good alternatves to them:

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=VAT-20A%2B

For the BNC solution, there aren't many high quality inline attenuators available, but once again Mini-Circuists can help you out. They have about 14 different 2 GHz variants from 3 dB to 20 dB available, here's the 20 dB one:

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=HAT-20A%2B

Finally, I use appropriate cables - something like this:

https://www.mouser.at/ProductDetail/Amphenol-RF/095-902-451-004?qs=3lX5AGUhm28OKKH1LFEK5A%3D%3D

And then I need some SMA (f) to BNC (m) adapters of course.

If you stick to BNC, then you should use high quality low loss cables with good (double) shielding, so to avoid crosstalk and the scope or SA picking up enironmental noise, which could be rather bad if we try to measure signals down at -80 dBc or even lower. Cheap RG58 is a no-go here.

I am using Hyperflex 5 cable in such cases, specified up to 6 GHz and >105 dB screening at 2 GHz.

A splitter/combiner is also very useful for the Bode Plot in Siglent DSOs - and to get good acuracy at low levels, good cables with high shielding are important there as well.
 





« Last Edit: October 05, 2023, 09:44:07 am by Performa01 »
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #463 on: October 05, 2023, 09:40:20 am »
... my generator only goes up to 120Mhz anyway ...
Well, here is a test at just 100 MHz, and the result is still highly inadequate even with the 500 MHz SDG6052X. The SDG2000X will probably be the same, if not, it could only be worse.

Se attached screenshot: only -60 dBc!
 
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Offline gammaburst

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #464 on: October 05, 2023, 05:03:09 pm »
Hi Performa01,

I tried your most recent test on my SDG6022X (liberated), 100.00 + 100.01 MHz using CH1+CH2 Wave Combine, both set to -30 dBm. I'm seeing about -74 dBc IMD on my old Advantest R3265M (calibrated long ago).

On my SDG2042X (liberated) I'm seeing about -54 dBc IMD. Interestingly, if I increase its two amplitudes to -20 dBm, IMD improves to about -63 dBc. I think that's because the instrument seems to use 8 dB attenuator/relay steps, the DAC provides the smaller amplitude steps, and the amplifier distortion grows quickly with amplitude. At -30 dBm the DAC happens to be near max amplitude (higher amplifier distortion), and at -20 dBm the DAC happens to be near min amplitude (lower amplifier distortion). Just my guesses. I haven't noticed that behavior with the SDG6022X.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2023, 05:12:57 pm by gammaburst »
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #465 on: October 05, 2023, 07:52:29 pm »
@Performa01:

Thank you for the cable hint, I need to make some cables for my SML01.
The two 20dB attenuators and the combiner from mini circuits I´ve ordered now from mouser (It seems that mini circuits accept only credit card, I don´t have one.), should arrive in the next week.
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #466 on: October 06, 2023, 02:17:26 pm »
I tried your most recent test on my SDG6022X (liberated), 100.00 + 100.01 MHz using CH1+CH2 Wave Combine, both set to -30 dBm. I'm seeing about -74 dBc IMD on my old Advantest R3265M (calibrated long ago).
Well, there could be several reasons for this. Most likely you have a different HW version (mine is 01-00-00-78-38), or even a different FW (mine was 6.01.01.36R3) and finally even with identical hardware, distortion performance could vary a bit, especially since there will always be slight differences in the signal levels.

Finally, there is also the distortion of the spectrum analyzer, which can even reduce the DUT distortion measurement in some cases.

On my SDG2042X (liberated) I'm seeing about -54 dBc IMD.
Okay - looks like the SDG2000X output stage is actually less linear then. I cannot test this, since I don't have an SDG2000X.

Interestingly, if I increase its two amplitudes to -20 dBm, IMD improves to about -63 dBc. I think that's because the instrument seems to use 8 dB attenuator/relay steps, the DAC provides the smaller amplitude steps, and the amplifier distortion grows quickly with amplitude. At -30 dBm the DAC happens to be near max amplitude (higher amplifier distortion), and at -20 dBm the DAC happens to be near min amplitude (lower amplifier distortion). Just my guesses. I haven't noticed that behavior with the SDG6022X.
Yes, this most likely plays a major role, often overlooked in the heat of the fight...
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #467 on: October 06, 2023, 03:50:11 pm »
I tried your most recent test on my SDG6022X (liberated), 100.00 + 100.01 MHz using CH1+CH2 Wave Combine, both set to -30 dBm. I'm seeing about -74 dBc IMD on my old Advantest R3265M (calibrated long ago).
Well, there could be several reasons for this. Most likely you have a different HW version (mine is 01-00-00-78-38), or even a different FW (mine was 6.01.01.36R3) and finally even with identical hardware, distortion performance could vary a bit, especially since there will always be slight differences in the signal levels.

Finally, there is also the distortion of the spectrum analyzer, which can even reduce the DUT distortion measurement in some cases.

On my SDG2042X (liberated) I'm seeing about -54 dBc IMD.
Okay - looks like the SDG2000X output stage is actually less linear then. I cannot test this, since I don't have an SDG2000X.

Interestingly, if I increase its two amplitudes to -20 dBm, IMD improves to about -63 dBc. I think that's because the instrument seems to use 8 dB attenuator/relay steps, the DAC provides the smaller amplitude steps, and the amplifier distortion grows quickly with amplitude. At -30 dBm the DAC happens to be near max amplitude (higher amplifier distortion), and at -20 dBm the DAC happens to be near min amplitude (lower amplifier distortion). Just my guesses. I haven't noticed that behavior with the SDG6022X.
Yes, this most likely plays a major role, often overlooked in the heat of the fight...

WRT Blue above. We get about -71dBc with our SDG6022X under same conditions, measured with SSA3021X+. SDG6022X Firmware version 36R3, and hardware version 78-38. This is OK but certainly not good enough for some serious 2 Tone IMD evaluation.


Do you have any references where this IMD reduction occurred with the use of the SA mentioned above?

Long ago we spent considerable time and $ looking into analog channels to achieve such, this was for some very specific applications. We did develop a broadband channel that exhibited a somewhat unique property, where the signal of interest odd harmonics experienced a sort of "suck out" phenomena in the classic sweep of input amplitude power and plotting the fundamental and harmonics on a power scale (dBm). The general idea was to place the input signal level utilizing AGC to place the conditioned signal within the region of the odd harmonic null, thus removing/reducing such over a wide-band without the need for tunable filters. The odd harmonic "null" looked more like a notch filter with the input power sweep.

Don't want to detract from this thread but could post something about these unique non-linear amps if folks are interested, from what I can remember from way back ???

Edit: Added the IMD plot for the SDG2042X, shows worse IMD performance as expected, just -53dBc.

Best,
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 04:32:25 pm by mawyatt »
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #468 on: October 06, 2023, 06:56:59 pm »
We get about -71dBc with our SDG6022X under same conditions, measured with SSA3021X+. SDG6022X Firmware version 36R3, and hardware version 78-38.
Are you reaally sure the conditions were the same? The screenshot posted by me was named "SDG6052X_Int_1x20dB_100MHz_-6dBm" which hints on a generator output level of -6 dBm. I have not clearly described this setup, but it was the same as for the other two scenarios, with the major difference that only one input of the power combiner was connected to the SDG and the other input was just 50 ohms terminated.

To cut a long story short, the generator output was -6 dBm, and together with a total of 26 dB attenuation this resulted in a signal level of -32 dBm at the SA input.

Now I have repeated the 100 MHz test at the much lower level of -32 dBm (instead of -6 dBm) and lo and behold, my results are suspiciously close to the ones achieved by @gammaburst and you - just look at the attached screenshot.

Do you have any references where this IMD reduction occurred with the use of the SA mentioned above?
This claim is bassed on my own experience. If I find the time, I will search my old measurements to find an example eventually.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2023, 06:59:17 am by Performa01 »
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #469 on: October 06, 2023, 07:31:16 pm »
We get about -71dBc with our SDG6022X under same conditions, measured with SSA3021X+. SDG6022X Firmware version 36R3, and hardware version 78-38.
Are you reaally sure the conditions were the same? The screenshot posted by me was named "SDG6052X_Int_1x20dB_100MHz_-6dBm" which hints on a generator output level of -6 dBm. I have not clearly described this setup, but it was the same as for the other two scenarios, with the major difference that only one input of the power combiner was connected to the SDG and the other input was just 50 ohms terminated.

This was in reference to the Highlighted Blue Text which was from gamaburst as shown, so not referenced to your results with AWG set to -6dBm.

As expected your results with -30dBm AWG setting are quite similar, and agree with both gamaburst and our results, which confirms the SDG6022X performance expectations under Wave Combine.

Edit: Here's a plot with the AWG set to -6dBm with Wave Combine, we don't have a 20dB pad, so using a 10dB attenuator instead....... I know we "should" have a 20dB pad :-[

Also added (PNG36) the SDG2042X at -6dBm with 10dB attenuator, results are slightly better than when set to -30dBm as gamaburst had also shown improvement with higher levels.

Best,
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 08:08:46 pm by mawyatt »
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Offline gammaburst

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #470 on: October 06, 2023, 08:32:15 pm »
Do you have any references where this IMD reduction occurred with the use of the SA mentioned above?

Not sure to whom you're speaking there. I don't understand the question, so maybe not to me.

My SDG6022X has firmware 36R8 and hardware 03-00-00-78-38.

Just for fun, here's a screen capture (via GPIB) of my old R3265M SA (circa 1991). I performed a self-calibration a couple hours ago - not much change. The SDG6022X (liberated) is set to -30dBm (both channels) with Wave Combine enabled, and CH1 simply plugged into the SA through a DC blocking capacitor.

You fellows mentioned -6 dBm so I've attached that screen capture too. Looks like about -73 dBc.
I dialed-in some extra SA attenuation so the stronger signal doesn't hit the SA's first mixer too hard (distortion).
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 09:42:03 pm by gammaburst »
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #471 on: October 06, 2023, 10:25:22 pm »
Do you have any references where this IMD reduction occurred with the use of the SA mentioned above?

Not sure to whom you're speaking there. I don't understand the question, so maybe not to me.

My SDG6022X has firmware 36R8 and hardware 03-00-00-78-38.

That was for Performa01 wrt to the reduction in IMD with signal amplitude increase which we were interested with (see "...." below), sorry for the confusion.

"Long ago we spent considerable time and $ looking into analog channels to achieve such, this was for some very specific applications. We did develop a broadband channel that exhibited a somewhat unique property, where the signal of interest odd harmonics experienced a sort of "suck out" phenomena in the classic sweep of input amplitude power and plotting the fundamental and harmonics on a power scale (dBm). The general idea was to place the input signal level utilizing AGC to place the conditioned signal within the region of the odd harmonic null, thus removing/reducing such over a wide-band without the need for tunable filters. The odd harmonic "null" looked more like a notch filter with the input power sweep.

Don't want to detract from this thread but could post something about these unique non-linear amps if folks are interested, from what I can remember from way back ???"


BTW, appears your results are slightly better :-+

Best,
 
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 10:34:50 pm by mawyatt »
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #472 on: October 07, 2023, 08:58:46 am »
Since distortions are highly dependent of signal levels, I thought I’d take advantage on my precision step attenuator in order to measure distortion performance of my SDG6052X at various output levels while still keeping the input level to the spectrum analyzer the same -30 dBm all the time. Of course I’ve checked my SA first – it doesn’t generate any distortion products relevant for this measurement itself; that means, the relative levels of the distortion products were the same for all input levels from -30 to -50 dBm for instance.

I have tested all output levels before and after the click of an internal relay when stepping through the range from -30 dBm to +10 dBm in 1 dB increments. By this, I noticed a curious behavior as can be seen in the table below: At some spots, there is a relay action every other step, such as -13 to -14, and then again -15 to -16 dBm, but then there are also areas like +2 to -5 dBm without any relay action.

The test has been performed at 100 MHz.

Output  IMD
 [dBm]  [dBc]
---------------
   -30  -71.5
   -29  -74.0
   -24  -71.9
   -23  -70.9
   -22  -71.2
   -21  -74.9
   -16  -69.6
   -15  -68.5
   -14  -68.1
   -13  -75.9
   -08  -62.5
   -07  -61.4
   -06  -60.6
   -05  -59.2
   +02  -54.1
   +03  -53.6
   +08  -48.8
   +09  -48.3
   +10  -48.2

As we can see, my SDG6052X has a sweet spot (-75:9 dBc) at -13 dBm output, see first screenshot.

SDG6052X_Int_100MHz_-13dBm

At -14 dBm, the distortion rises significantly to -68.1 dBc; Yet it shows a lot less higher order distortion products in comparison:

SDG6052X_Int_100MHz_-14dBm

 
The following users thanked this post: egonotto

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #473 on: October 09, 2023, 05:50:31 pm »
@Performa01:

Thank you for the cable hint, I need to make some cables for my SML01.
The two 20dB attenuators and the combiner from mini circuits I´ve ordered now from mouser (It seems that mini circuits accept only credit card, I don´t have one.), should arrive in the next week.

Already arrived...looks like good quality.
 
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Offline boolhead

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Re: Siglent SDG6000X series 200-500 MHz AWG's
« Reply #474 on: October 31, 2023, 01:41:10 am »
I wonder if there will be a successor in the near future.

https://www.siglenteu.com/waveform-generators/sdg7000a-arbitrary-waveform-generator/


SDG6012X-E 160MHz version running firmware 36R8:
Hi tv84, can not telnet to 10101 with telnet_sdg6000.ads, does this ads file not support SDG6012X-E :-//?
 


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