Siglent SDS1000X HD 12bit DSO's

[2N3055]

Martin72 you have the SDS2104X HD, after watching the quick guide of the SDS1000X can you say if everything is the same?

https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS1000X%20HD_Quick%20Guide.pdf

What exactly is the question?

[TopQuark]

Martin72 you have the SDS2104X HD, after watching the quick guide of the SDS1000X can you say if everything is the same?

https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS1000X%20HD_Quick%20Guide.pdf

I also own the SDS2000X HD and the SDS2000X Plus, and I read Chinese natively 

TLDR is everything different has been pointed out already in the thread.

The exterior seems identical, besides the 1000 HD not having the AWG at the back, and uses a different connector for the digital probes.

Software wise everything looks very similar as well, the most obvious difference is the 1000 HD has 4 math channels, while the 2000 HD inexplicably only has 2 

but tbh if the 1000 HD and the 2000X Plus are priced similarly, I'd go for the 2000X Plus without thinking.

Unless you are doing math with the traces all the time, or have to see the tiniest wiggle in the traces, 12-bit doesn't add that much tbh. The application that would benefit most from the two scenarios I mentioned is probably power electronics.

The noise performance of the 2000X Plus is plenty good, and 350/500MHz BW is more useful than 12 bit at 100/200MHz for "general use" IMO.

[2N3055]

Martin72 you have the SDS2104X HD, after watching the quick guide of the SDS1000X can you say if everything is the same?

https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS1000X%20HD_Quick%20Guide.pdf

I also own the SDS2000X HD and the SDS2000X Plus, and I read Chinese natively 

TLDR is everything different has been pointed out already in the thread.

The exterior seems identical, besides the 1000 HD not having the AWG at the back, and uses a different connector for the digital probes.

Software wise everything looks very similar as well, the most obvious difference is the 1000 HD has 4 math channels, while the 2000 HD inexplicably only has 2 

but tbh if the 1000 HD and the 2000X Plus are priced similarly, I'd go for the 2000X Plus without thinking.

Unless you are doing math with the traces all the time, or have to see the tiniest wiggle in the traces, 12-bit doesn't add that much tbh. The application that would benefit most from the two scenarios I mentioned is probably power electronics.

The noise performance of the 2000X Plus is plenty good, and 350/500MHz BW is more useful than 12 bit at 100/200MHz for "general use" IMO.

Good analysis. 

[Raccoonhead]

It looks like a decision between Rigol HDO1000 and Siglent SDS1000X HD. I've always liked Siglent better, but I'm an impatient person and Rigol is now available.

[ojete]

Martin72 you have the SDS2104X HD, after watching the quick guide of the SDS1000X can you say if everything is the same?

https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS1000X%20HD_Quick%20Guide.pdf

I also own the SDS2000X HD and the SDS2000X Plus, and I read Chinese natively 

TLDR is everything different has been pointed out already in the thread.

The exterior seems identical, besides the 1000 HD not having the AWG at the back, and uses a different connector for the digital probes.

Software wise everything looks very similar as well, the most obvious difference is the 1000 HD has 4 math channels, while the 2000 HD inexplicably only has 2 

but tbh if the 1000 HD and the 2000X Plus are priced similarly, I'd go for the 2000X Plus without thinking.

Unless you are doing math with the traces all the time, or have to see the tiniest wiggle in the traces, 12-bit doesn't add that much tbh. The application that would benefit most from the two scenarios I mentioned is probably power electronics.

The noise performance of the 2000X Plus is plenty good, and 350/500MHz BW is more useful than 12 bit at 100/200MHz for "general use" IMO.

Thank you so much. With the question I meant the software part.
Does anybody knows if the scope is already for sale in China?

[TopQuark]

Does anybody knows if the scope is already for sale in China?

Doesn't seem so.

[tautech]

It looks like a decision between Rigol HDO1000 and Siglent SDS1000X HD. I've always liked Siglent better, but I'm an impatient person and Rigol is now available.

Welcome to the forum.

I do believe HD is available in China however we will need to wait a few more weeks. 

[Tankj]

AFAIK, no market sell on china right now .
But there's a promotion going on Siglent china website that seems 10% off the 1000X HD by signing up for the trial, till the end of June. The 2000X HD series is also carrying promotions at the same time.

By just comparing the datasheet, the difference between 1000X HD and 2000X HD are:
Sample rate:
1000XHD has total of 1G sampling rate capacity(1G for 1CH, 500M for 2CH, 250M for 4CH),
2000XHD has total of 4G sampling rate capacity(2G for 2CH, 1G for 4CH).

Memory depth：
1000XHD has 100Mpts interleaved or 100Mpts per channel (To be clarified) ,
2000XHD has 100Mpts per channel,

Waveform capture rate:
1000XHD is 400,000 wfm/s on Sequence mode,
2000XHD is 500,000 wfm/s on Sequence mode,

Peak detection:
1000XHD 4ns,
2000XHD 1ns,

Bandwidth flatness: slightly worse on 1000X HD,

AC coupling cutoff frequency:
1000XHD 2Hz,
2000XHD 5Hz,

SFDR:
1000XHD ≥ 35dB,
2000XHD ≥ 45dB,

Channel isolation:
1000XHD > 40dB,
2000XHD > 70dB,

Horizon DIV:
1000XHD 2ns,
2000XHD 500ps/1ns,

Time Base Accuracy:
1000XHD ± 25ppm
2000XHD ± 2ppm

Trigger:
2000XHD has more trigger options, plus touch screen area trigger，

Waveform histogram：
1000XHD no waveform histogram，

Math channel：
1000XHD has 4 Math channels!!!!
2000XHD has 2 Math channels,

Logic analyzer:
1000XHD external SBUS device, 16ch 1GSa/s, 10 Mpts/ch,
2000XHD internal option, 16ch 500MSa/s, 50 Mpts/ch,

Waveform generator：
1000XHD 25MHz external USB device，
2000XHD 25MHz internal option，

We can definitely tell that the 1000XHD are significantly down spec in many ways, but for hobby or even general development use, it's quite adequate.

It's happy to see that 1000XHD has the same 0.5%DC accuracy from 2000XHD, the standard Bode plot test(which is optional on 2000X+), also the 4 math channels!!

Personally, the only complaint I have is the 4-channel model still shares that 1G sampling capacity, which means only 250M for full channel use. But still very attractive considering its price. I have almost put the trigger on RIGOL DHO1000 last year, but has always been put off by its toy-like appearance and design. Thanks for siglent now I can take this 1000X HD instead

[tautech]

Tankj, reasonable summary but with errors, the most glaring of which is memory depth for which SDS1kX HD clearly states 100 Mpts/ch.
It might be wise to revisit your post with edits.

[Martin72]

Grrr.....

[Tankj]

Tankj, reasonable summary but with errors, the most glaring of which is memory depth for which SDS1kX HD clearly states 100 Mpts/ch.
It might be wise to revisit your post with edits.

Hi tautech,thanks for the correction, post has edit. I have already noticed that the SDS1000XHD summary mentioned the memory depth is 100 Mpts/ch.

however, when comparing the full datasheet, it states: 100Mpts (interleaving mode). Things get bit confusing here

According to the acquisition hardware config of SDS1000XHD (2 or 4 channels shares one ADC), this provides some clues that the SDS1000XHD may actually have shared 100M memory for all channels. Also, SIGLENT makes this kind of paperwork mistakes often .

Before actually using the machine, this can only be a reasonable guess. Let me know if you have any definite info on this, then I'll revise the post again.

[tautech]

Before actually using the machine, this can only be a reasonable guess. Let me know if you have any definite info on this, then I'll revise the post again.

4th line down on the Chinese website clearly states 100 Mpts/ch so despite what other info states I believe for now we should work with this. 
Hence the basic info on specs posted in the OP of which I will change if proven incorrect.

[Tankj]

The full data(chinese one) also clearly states 100Mpts in interleaving mode.

So far, Siglent gives conflicting information. We can't tell which is right, only think of these as two possibilities. 

[tautech]

The full data(chinese one) also clearly states 100Mpts in interleaving mode.

So far, Siglent gives conflicting information. We can't tell which is right, only think of these as two possibilities. 

(Attachment Link)

I'll attempt to get answers.

[Muttley Snickers]

Note: Excerpt from post.

Sample rate:
1000XHD has total of 1G sampling rate capacity(1G for 1CH, 500M for 2CH, 150M for 4CH),
2000XHD has total of 4G sampling rate capacity(2G for 2CH, 1G for 4CH).
(snip...)
Personally, the only complaint I have is the 4-channel model still shares that 1G sampling capacity, which means only 250M for full channel use.

I believe that 150M is a typo which only adds to the confusion.        
An excellent comparison nonetheless.   

[Tankj]

I believe that 150M is a typo which only adds to the confusion.        
An excellent comparison nonetheless.   

Hi Muttley Snickers, it's a typo, Thanks for correction. 

[TopQuark]

Listed on Taobao for the China market, pre-orders for now.

Priced quite competitively I think, Rigol DHO1074 is priced at 6779 RMB on Taobao.

Seems like the Rigol / Siglent 12-bit scope wars is in full swing 

[BillyO]

That looks like it will be around $1200 USD for the 1104.  Not bad at all.

[rf-loop]

By just comparing the datasheet, the difference between 1000X HD and 2000X HD are:
Sample rate:
1000XHD has total of 1G sampling rate capacity(1G for 1CH, 500M for 2CH, 250M for 4CH),
2000XHD has total of 4G sampling rate capacity(2G for 2CH, 1G for 4CH).

Memory depth：
1000XHD has 100Mpts interleaved or 100Mpts per channel (To be clarified) ,
2000XHD has 100Mpts per channel,

SDS1000XHD memory (Siglent published bit confusing information) will be specified / clarified later.


These need some clarifications (SDS2000X HD).


My opinion is that for avoid confusion it is not suitable to tell 4G sampling rate capacity (sum of sampling rates) because it can not use in any circumstances 4G sampling rate for signal under test. (there is not all ADC interleaving for get 4G. (There is two Ti ADC12D1000  what is single channel 2GSa (interleaved) or dual channel 1GSa (non interleaved), there is not 4G interleaving for single channel use). Also clarification for SDS2000X HD memory length.   So it is perhaps better to tell dual 2GSa/s  in 4 channel models.

Construction is:
Input group 1: CH1 and CH2 share one 2GSa/s ADC and one 200Mpts memory.
Input group 2: CH3 and CH4 share one 2GSa/s ADC and one 200Mpts memory.
Note: ADC run always using these full non interleaved or interleaved sampling speed independent of possible decimation what happen between ADC and acquisition memory.

If only one CH is in use, ADC sampling speed is 2GSa and memory max 200Mpts

If total two CH is use, 1 from Group 1 AND 1 from Group 2, then both channels get ADC samplerate 2GSa/s and max 200Mpts
Examples
CH1 + CH3  both channels 2GSa/s and both channels max 200Mpts
CH2 + CH3  both channels 2GSa/s and both channels max 200Mpts
CH1 + CH4  both channels 2GSa/s and both channels max 200Mpts
CH2 + CH4  both channels 2GSa/s and both channels max 200Mpts

If total two CH is use, both from Group 1 or both from Group 2, then both channels get ADC samplerate 1GSa/s and max 100Mpts
Examples
CH1+CH2  both channels 1GSa/s and both channels max 100Mpts
CH3+CH4  both channels 1GSa/s and both channels max 100Mpts

If more than 2 channels are in use in all possible combinations all channels get ADC samplerate 1GSa/s and every channel max 100Mpts

Note: these told sampling speed values are ADC speeds.
When decimation is used, of course, decimated speed depends memory selection and time axis scale but in background ADC itself run always of course full interleaved or non interleaved speed. Digital trigger engine listen always this data stream out from ADC before possible decimation.

ETA: some clarifications and typo corrections

[tautech]

Following on from the great -3dB BW points in SDS2000X Plus this preproduction 200 MHz SDS1204X HD offers a similar BW headroom of some 280 MHz. 
100 MHz Ref waveform displayed @ 1V p-p
Source = SSG3021X

[tautech]

Grrr.....

Patience grasshopper....4 math traces for 2kX HD is coming. 

[hofcake]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

Unfortunately the SDS2000X HD still remains uncracked (someone correct me if I am wrong). I suspect they will be using a similar scheme for software upgrades for that device. I would love to see it cracked though! Would be nice to have a more affordable mixed signal 12 bit scope on the market.

[tautech]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

Unfortunately the SDS2000X HD still remains uncracked (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Welcome to the forum.

Please stand corrected. 
A deep hunt into the SDS2000X HD thread will provide some answers.

[sly2538]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

Unfortunately the SDS2000X HD still remains uncracked (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Welcome to the forum.

Please stand corrected. 
A deep hunt into the SDS2000X HD thread will provide some answers.

thanks, but where to find info about this hack ?

[tautech]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

Unfortunately the SDS2000X HD still remains uncracked (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Welcome to the forum.

Please stand corrected. 
A deep hunt into the SDS2000X HD thread will provide some answers.

thanks, but where to find info about this hack ?

Start reading here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg4241161/#msg4241161
Little has changed that I'm aware of.