Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[oz2cpu]

a little bit of sound level measurements, so the human detector is out of the equation,
dba slow, 35cm units front to mic, sensor lifted 10 cm over table

[thinkfat]

Spectrum could be interesting as well. The less peaks the better.

[Michael YYZ]

Apologies for my ignorance, but is this a DPO (Digital Phosphor Oscilloscope) machine? I can see that it is labelled SPO (Super Phosphor Oscilloscope), which could be an indication or just a marketing exercise, whereas the virtually identical LeCroy T3DSO2000A oscilloscope is labelled DSO (Digital Storage Oscilloscope).

Based on what it can do, including the ability to spot transient occurrences within repetitive signals, as well as the 256 colour gradation, I am inclined to think that the Siglent model is indeed a DPO. But does it employ the typical parallel data processing architecture that is specific to DPOs, thus eliminating the dead time between triggering events in DSOs? If true, does it mean that it uses the colour gradation to display the z-axis information for the number of similar occurrences of a waveform?

Or, instead, it simply has the adjustment for trace persistence that most DSOs provide, and only serial data processing?

[oz2cpu]

YES to it all, Michael

[TK]

It is a DSO. In my opinion DPO / SPO is just a marketing naming.

[Michael YYZ]

Well, based on my understanding, not exactly so. From what I've read, the major difference is another type of architecture: parallel vs. serial (e.g. https://www.tek.com/document/online/primer/xyzs-scopes/ch2/oscilloscope-types). This would allow SPOs to achieve the following:

• Capture signal data continuously, with no dead times, so not to miss any infrequent glitches in the signal; and
• Represent the waveform using different intensity, usually different shade of colour, as a function of the repeatability of the signal

Surely not all oscilloscopes do the above, so there must be differences between the two oscilloscope architecture. What IS confusing to me is the use of different marketing terminologies, e.g. Super Phosphor Oscilloscope (and DSO) by Siglent, or (only) Digital Storage Oscilloscope by Teledyne LeCroy, although an SPO is also a DPO, but the reverse may not be true.

In any case, I am happy that oz2cpu confirmed that this machine is indeed an SPO. 

It is a DSO. In my opinion DPO / SPO is just a marketing naming.

[Jeff C]

IIRC, SPO/DPO just means it has an intensity graded display. That gives the display a more analog look. The Siglent SDS 2xxx Plus has a rating somewhere near 140k wave forms/sec. that would leave a min dead time of around 7 uSec between waveform captures.

Edit: fixed some spelling

[TK]

IIRC, SPO/DPO just means it has an intensity graded display. The Siglent SDS 2xxx Pls has a rating somewhere near 140k wave forms/sec. that would leave a min dead time of 7 uSec between waveform captures

140k wfm/s in very limited cases, at a certain timebase, etc etc.  I agree SPO/DPO is just a fancier name for intensity graded display.

[rf-loop]

IIRC, SPO/DPO just means it has an intensity graded display. The Siglent SDS 2xxx Pls has a rating somewhere near 140k wave forms/sec. that would leave a min dead time of 7 uSec between waveform captures

140k wfm/s in very limited cases, at a certain timebase, etc etc.  I agree SPO/DPO is just a fancier name for intensity graded display.

Except that it is much more than just only intensity graded display. If there is overlaid example 1000 or 10 or 5000 acquisitions on one TFT frame, they all are there with full data - If we talk about Siglent SPO. They are not just only for produce intensity gradation on the TFT screen. If there is wfm speed 140000, and if TFT is updated 25 times per second there is 5600 captures in one TFT and overlaid. But they are not only producing intensity info. Example if you stop scope. You find every these captures stacked in memory with full ADC data and trig time stamp. (and mostly there is stacked more than just last TFT frame overlaid captures). Top speed is reached just with some settings and mostly it is lot of slower. But other side, it also keep least all latest  TFT frame included overlaid captures separately in stack with full data and with trigger time stamp. You can try dismantle one Keysight TFT image... what yoy find. Last acquisition and then image pixels. Yes, nice to look... but I like more data than beautiful pictures except if I take scenery photo.

Intensity gradation is only just one feature what DPO/SPO give and not even most important. And this make it LOT of more than intensity gradation seen in analog scopes. Except that many scopes do it only for intensity gradation and for draw some anomaly to display (and only to display picture)

[TK]

IIRC, SPO/DPO just means it has an intensity graded display. The Siglent SDS 2xxx Pls has a rating somewhere near 140k wave forms/sec. that would leave a min dead time of 7 uSec between waveform captures

140k wfm/s in very limited cases, at a certain timebase, etc etc.  I agree SPO/DPO is just a fancier name for intensity graded display.

Except that it is much more than just only intensity graded display. If there is overlaid example 1000 or 10 or 5000 acquisitions on one TFT frame, they all are there with full data - If we talk about Siglent SPO. They are not just only for produce intensity gradation on the TFT screen. If there is wfm speed 140000, and if TFT is updated 25 times per second there is 5600 captures in one TFT and overlaid. But they are not only producing intensity info. Example if you stop scope. You find every these captures stacked in memory with full ADC data and trig time stamp. (and mostly there is stacked more than just last TFT frame overlaid captures). Top speed is reached just with some settings and mostly it is lot of slower. But other side, it also keep least all latest  TFT frame included overlaid captures separately in stack with full data and with trigger time stamp. You can try dismantle one Keysight TFT image... what yoy find. Last acquisition and then image pixels. Yes, nice to look... but I like more data than beautiful pictures except if I take scenery photo.

I would love to see an example of Siglent DPO/SPO vs others (KS, Rigol, etc) screen captures. 

Intensity gradation is only just one feature what DPO/SPO give and not even most important. And this make it LOT of more than intensity gradation seen in analog scopes. Except that many scopes do it only for intensity gradation and for draw some anomaly to display (and only to display picture)

If the purpose is to only display the anomaly but you cannot trigger it, what is the final benefit vs KS?  Isn't a scope that can trigger @ 200K Wfm/s or 1M Wfm/s better than the Siglent with 140K Wfm/s with DPO/SPO?  It is my understanding that wfm/s is what also determines the trigger re-arming and capture capability, correct?

[rf-loop]

IIRC, SPO/DPO just means it has an intensity graded display. The Siglent SDS 2xxx Pls has a rating somewhere near 140k wave forms/sec. that would leave a min dead time of 7 uSec between waveform captures

140k wfm/s in very limited cases, at a certain timebase, etc etc.  I agree SPO/DPO is just a fancier name for intensity graded display.

Except that it is much more than just only intensity graded display. If there is overlaid example 1000 or 10 or 5000 acquisitions on one TFT frame, they all are there with full data - If we talk about Siglent SPO. They are not just only for produce intensity gradation on the TFT screen. If there is wfm speed 140000, and if TFT is updated 25 times per second there is 5600 captures in one TFT and overlaid. But they are not only producing intensity info. Example if you stop scope. You find every these captures stacked in memory with full ADC data and trig time stamp. (and mostly there is stacked more than just last TFT frame overlaid captures). Top speed is reached just with some settings and mostly it is lot of slower. But other side, it also keep least all latest  TFT frame included overlaid captures separately in stack with full data and with trigger time stamp. You can try dismantle one Keysight TFT image... what yoy find. Last acquisition and then image pixels. Yes, nice to look... but I like more data than beautiful pictures except if I take scenery photo.

I would love to see an example of Siglent DPO/SPO vs others (KS, Rigol, etc) screen captures. 

Intensity gradation is only just one feature what DPO/SPO give and not even most important. And this make it LOT of more than intensity gradation seen in analog scopes. Except that many scopes do it only for intensity gradation and for draw some anomaly to display (and only to display picture)

If the purpose is to only display the anomaly but you cannot trigger it, what is the final benefit vs KS?  Isn't a scope that can trigger @ 200K Wfm/s or 1M Wfm/s better than the Siglent with 140K Wfm/s with DPO/SPO?  It is my understanding that wfm/s is what also determines the trigger re-arming and capture capability, correct?

Of course destroyed HP - Keysight today - fast wfm/s have advantages. It is not nonsense. But I can see some kind of hype around it. Naturally more speed give less blind time and rare glitches finding probability rise. But, some times when listen KS it is like most important thing in scope. How much we use scope just for this glitch/anomaly hunting in real life, only one narrow range of use. If we are very clever we put scope for waiting anomaly and do other things. If need find first anomaly scope need run just one single wfm - if scope know what is anomaly - it can wait just this, so we need develop more clever scopes, not more fast scopes.. 1wfm/s is enough for this very rare glitch hunting (if we have this kind of AI scope, what do not yet exist even when LeCroy have bit exercised with some kind of... )

Future, I hope: If I can teach scope so it know what is normal good signal... it can then detect only these when these happen. No need capture anything... until there is what we want find. No need capture wfm... AI trigger engine can be a "duty officer" who monitors and looks for anomalies. No need fast update rate wfm display at all.  We can teach and program cars to autonomous driving... how we can not teach oscilloscope for recognize anomalies.

[nctnico]

IIRC, SPO/DPO just means it has an intensity graded display. The Siglent SDS 2xxx Pls has a rating somewhere near 140k wave forms/sec. that would leave a min dead time of 7 uSec between waveform captures

140k wfm/s in very limited cases, at a certain timebase, etc etc.  I agree SPO/DPO is just a fancier name for intensity graded display.

Except that it is much more than just only intensity graded display. If there is overlaid example 1000 or 10 or 5000 acquisitions on one TFT frame, they all are there with full data - If we talk about Siglent SPO. They are not just only for produce intensity gradation on the TFT screen. If there is wfm speed 140000, and if TFT is updated 25 times per second there is 5600 captures in one TFT and overlaid. But they are not only producing intensity info. Example if you stop scope. You find every these captures stacked in memory with full ADC data and trig time stamp. (and mostly there is stacked more than just last TFT frame overlaid captures). Top speed is reached just with some settings and mostly it is lot of slower. But other side, it also keep least all latest  TFT frame included overlaid captures separately in stack with full data and with trigger time stamp. You can try dismantle one Keysight TFT image... what yoy find. Last acquisition and then image pixels. Yes, nice to look... but I like more data than beautiful pictures except if I take scenery photo.

It is not like Keysight (and other DSOs) don't have segmented recording where you can overlay frames. Siglent is in no way unique in that ability. Also the waveforms/s number is just a peak number for marketing wank. It is highly unlikely that a measurement requirement aligns precisely with the maximum waveform update rate. Trigger re-arm time is a much more meaningful number.

[rf-loop]

IIRC, SPO/DPO just means it has an intensity graded display. The Siglent SDS 2xxx Pls has a rating somewhere near 140k wave forms/sec. that would leave a min dead time of 7 uSec between waveform captures

140k wfm/s in very limited cases, at a certain timebase, etc etc.  I agree SPO/DPO is just a fancier name for intensity graded display.

Except that it is much more than just only intensity graded display. If there is overlaid example 1000 or 10 or 5000 acquisitions on one TFT frame, they all are there with full data - If we talk about Siglent SPO. They are not just only for produce intensity gradation on the TFT screen. If there is wfm speed 140000, and if TFT is updated 25 times per second there is 5600 captures in one TFT and overlaid. But they are not only producing intensity info. Example if you stop scope. You find every these captures stacked in memory with full ADC data and trig time stamp. (and mostly there is stacked more than just last TFT frame overlaid captures). Top speed is reached just with some settings and mostly it is lot of slower. But other side, it also keep least all latest  TFT frame included overlaid captures separately in stack with full data and with trigger time stamp. You can try dismantle one Keysight TFT image... what yoy find. Last acquisition and then image pixels. Yes, nice to look... but I like more data than beautiful pictures except if I take scenery photo.

It is not like Keysight (and other DSOs) don't have segmented recording where you can overlay frames. Siglent is in no way unique in that ability. Also the waveforms/s number is just a peak number for marketing wank. It is highly unlikely that a measurement requirement aligns precisely with the maximum waveform update rate. Trigger re-arm time is a much more meaningful number.

 
Start going to the so-called entertainment side.

[Michael YYZ]

From what I can see from the brochures for the Teledyne Test Tools T3DSO2000A and the Siglent SDS2000X Plus oscilloscope brochures this machine can indeed display repetitive signals using different shades of colour. See attached screenshots from each device’s brochure, respectively.

If so, this would be useful for evaluating consistency and stability of waveforms. Has anyone used this feature? Does it work well?

[maxspb69]

It is with SDS2000XPlus that it is not very good. There are definitely not 256 intensity gradations  here, I could count no more than 16.
Rigol has better intensity (and color) grade  implementation. 

[tautech]

From what I can see from the brochures for the Teledyne Test Tools T3DSO2000A and the Siglent SDS2000X Plus oscilloscope brochures this machine can indeed display repetitive signals using different shades of colour. See attached screenshots from each device’s brochure, respectively.

If so, this would be useful for evaluating consistency and stability of waveforms. Has anyone used this feature? Does it work well?

Color grading has been in Siglent DSO's for years and it does have its uses.
An example is here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1370717/#msg1370717

[maxspb69]

Examples are given from a different scope model. In sds2000X+, this is not implemented as well as sds1000X-E, unfortunately. This has already been discussed here.

[Martin72]

If so, this would be useful for evaluating consistency and stability of waveforms.

It is claimed as a key feature in the datasheet:

Supports 256-level intensity grade and color temperature display modes

[maxspb69]

Unfortunately, my eyes and photoshop say that these levels are much less than 256. About 16 times
If Siglent claims 256 brightness levels in the specification, it is a hoax.

[Martin72]

Before the SDS2k+, I´ve owned a rigol mso5000....

[maxspb69]

Martin, your pictures confirm my conclusions. There are no declared 256 levels. It is obvious.
Siglent displays colors and intensities much more roughly (visible "steps" from a small number of gradations). Maybe in one of the following firmwares it will be fixed ?!(I doubt it)

[Martin72]

I must be blind, I didn´t see that much difference between...

[Michael YYZ]

For clarity, Martin, the screenshots I posted:

• Titled: “250-level Intensity Grading and Color Temperature Display” is from the T3DSO2000A brochure; and
• Titled: “Sequence Mode” is from the SDS2000X Plus brochure.

...but I understand that these two oscilloscopes are virtually identical. Or, are they not?...

Also, you quoted correctly below, from the SDS2000X Plus brochure.

So I’m clear now, the feature is there.

It is claimed as a key feature in the datasheet:

Supports 256-level intensity grade and color temperature display modes

[2N3055]

Martin, your pictures confirm my conclusions. There are no declared 256 levels. It is obvious.
Siglent displays colors and intensities much more roughly (visible "steps" from a small number of gradations). Maybe in one of the following firmwares it will be fixed ?!(I doubt it)

Siglent has much less noise, so pixels can group at certain values. Combine that with stroboscopic effect and you can easily get discrete distribution of pixels... Which can create discretization of gradation levels even with infinite steps in display engine.

[maxspb69]

RTB2000, which has only 64 gradations, does not have such "steps". And it has significantly less noise due to the 10bit ADC.

SDS2000X+ is a very good scope for the money. But the intensity grade are not implemented well enough. Why claim otherwise? Let the manufacturer fix it, because this  is only software problem.