Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[nctnico]

A lot of fuss about $5 probes. Many people probably toss the probes in the bin and buy (or already have) proper ones anyway. Probes that come with scopes are a courtesy item -nothing more nothing less-.

That is not a normal comment from you. They paid it, they are entitled to it even if costed $0.01.

In no place in the invoice it is said that it's a "GIFT"!

But the invoice doesn't state a price either... Anyway, it is rather wasteful to go through a lot of trouble for an item which many people want to replace anyway. If this is about special and/or high quality probes I'd agree that you should get what is ordered / promised. But making so much fuss about low end probes is just not worth it. Think about the extra amount of e-waste, time & energy spend with sending out extra low quality probes. IMHO it would be much better to sell scopes without probes so the buyers can choose what kind of probes they want. Added to that is the fact that it is questionable whether you can actually get a good measurement for signals over 100MHz using High-Z probes anyway due to the large capacitive loading of the probe. All it boils down is demanding 'better' probes from a principle while getting very little practical / real added value.

Besides that it seems to me Siglent has changed its mind and is now shipping 100MHz probes with 100MHz scopes which seems logical. Likely the marketing material has not been updated yet.

[Self Bias]

New owner of a SDS2104X+ here. I also received 4x PP510 probes, going to e-mail the seller now. What might be helpful at least for people in Europe:

https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/Probe_List_12302020.pdf

This is the list of standard probes supplied for each device. If I read the timestamp correctly, it's from the 30th of December 2020, so fairly recent.

I also had a weird malfunction with one of the probes: In 1:10 mode it seemed to only have capacitive coupling. The problem was reproducible and followed when I changed channels with the probe. 1:1 mode worked fine.
I tried it again a few hours later and the issue was gone, never reappeared since. Screenshot attached with another probe and this one connected to the CAL output.

[oz2cpu]

to self bias : it is the plastic sleeve of the probe, it is loose, that affect how the 10:1 switch is, and how much it can move,
you need to press the outher sleeve back, now the switch works,
happens to me all the time, need to figure out how to glue this

[tautech]

I don't think its a lot of fuss when you spend $1400 dollars on a scope and get probes with half the bandwidth than you were supposed to get. I've been saving up for the majority of my internship to try and build a decent lab. Although I do plan on buying other probes at some point, I would like to receive everything I have been quoted

My thoughts exactly.

We do know from frequency sweep tests done by Performa01 that PP510 and PP215 do perform very similar to out past their respective -3dB rated BW to 300 MHz.
Those results are here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1434665/#msg1434665


But rather than the 200 MHz PP215 it is my view the 100 and 200 MHz models should be shipped with the $59 300 MHz 10x SP2030A Auto-Sense probe that with these DSO's and their 500uV/div sensitivity still permits selection of 5mV/div max sensitivity which is more than adequate for the vast majority of work.


OTOH I have written to high levels at Siglent to investigate why units are being supplied with PP510 probes instead of the datasheet specified PP215 probes.

[nctnico]

I don't think its a lot of fuss when you spend $1400 dollars on a scope and get probes with half the bandwidth than you were supposed to get. I've been saving up for the majority of my internship to try and build a decent lab. Although I do plan on buying other probes at some point, I would like to receive everything I have been quoted

My thoughts exactly.

We do know from frequency sweep tests done by Performa01 that PP510 and PP215 do perform very similar to out past their respective -3dB rated BW to 300 MHz.
Those results are here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1434665/#msg1434665

Unfortunately such tests say absolutely nothing about probing in real circuits  Especially for frequencies over 100MHz. It has been explained before and any experienced engineer can tell you that. Or put differently: I never use a High-Z probe to probe signals over 100MHz because I know what I get on screen from a High-Z probe is a fantasy signal.

[Martin72]

I think, it´s a general (and interesting)thing and should be forwarded in an explicit thread, doesn´t have to do with the SDS2K+ only.

[KungFuJosh]

All it boils down is demanding 'better' probes from a principle while getting very little practical / real added value.

Besides that it seems to me Siglent has changed its mind and is now shipping 100MHz probes with 100MHz scopes which seems logical. Likely the marketing material has not been updated yet.

I'm with you in that I don't use the stock probes (I have some nice ProbeMaster probes). But if a product is advertised with specific accessories, and they send something of lesser quality, that's false advertising, and it's generally illegal.

[mawyatt]

If you order a new 200MPH Porsche 911 Twin Turbo you expect the tires to be better rated than 100MPH!! The factory supplies tires that are rated for 200MPH, if you want to change them you certainly can, but they are rated for 200MPH, and you paid for those 200MPH tires

Best,

[oz2cpu]

well we "chip-tuned" our scopes to run double as fast, surely we cant expect the stock probes to follow our new "demand"

[jemangedeslolos]

If you order a new 200MPH Porsche 911 Twin Turbo you expect the tires to be better rated than 100MPH!! The factory supplies tires that are rated for 200MPH, if you want to change them you certainly can, but they are rated for 200MPH, and you paid for those 200MPH tires

Best,

You chose the wrong example.
If you want to talk about precision on numbers, you must avoid talking about a brand that belongs to the Volkwagen group 

[2N3055]

If you order a new 200MPH Porsche 911 Twin Turbo you expect the tires to be better rated than 100MPH!! The factory supplies tires that are rated for 200MPH, if you want to change them you certainly can, but they are rated for 200MPH, and you paid for those 200MPH tires

Best,

You chose the wrong example.
If you want to talk about precision on numbers, you must avoid talking about a brand that belongs to the Volkwagen group 

911 is pretty much purebred Porsche.. Other models not so much, but 911 is...

To be honest, I personally consider 911 only real Porsche...

OT I think that if SDS2000X+ says in datasheet that it comes with 200Mhz model probes, it should come with those.. For correctness of data, if nothing else.

OTOH, like oz2cpu says, if you buy 200MHz scope and put a turbo on it, you need to buy better tires yourself... Or something like that 

[mawyatt]

If you order a new 200MPH Porsche 911 Twin Turbo you expect the tires to be better rated than 100MPH!! The factory supplies tires that are rated for 200MPH, if you want to change them you certainly can, but they are rated for 200MPH, and you paid for those 200MPH tires

Best,

You chose the wrong example.
If you want to talk about precision on numbers, you must avoid talking about a brand that belongs to the Volkwagen group 

Not the wrong example, Porsche just belongs to a larger group but doesn't convey they are performing or even held to the Volkswagen metrics which I do consider questionable, same goes for Audi. The Porsche 911 is recognized worldwide as the benchmark for all sports cars, why we have two (BTW the red 911 is a 993 model which is the last of the air cooled 911s, and worth more today than when purchased new in 1996!!)

LeCroy belongs to Teledyne, but they still perform to their own established metrics!! I mean what does Teledyne know about oscilloscopes??

Best,

[mawyatt]

If you order a new 200MPH Porsche 911 Twin Turbo you expect the tires to be better rated than 100MPH!! The factory supplies tires that are rated for 200MPH, if you want to change them you certainly can, but they are rated for 200MPH, and you paid for those 200MPH tires

Best,

You chose the wrong example.
If you want to talk about precision on numbers, you must avoid talking about a brand that belongs to the Volkwagen group 

911 is pretty much purebred Porsche.. Other models not so much, but 911 is...

To be honest, I personally consider 911 only real Porsche...

OT I think that if SDS2000X+ says in datasheet that it comes with 200Mhz model probes, it should come with those.. For correctness of data, if nothing else.

OTOH, like oz2cpu says, if you buy 200MHz scope and put a turbo on it, you need to buy better tires yourself... Or something like that 

Agree, the 911 is Porsche!! The 911 just won the 12 hours of Sebring in the GTLM and GTD classes, this is Porsche 100th total class wins at Sebring since 1st racing in ~1954!!

Cars are like scopes, the faster the better, but you need proper rated tires and probes to reach the full potential of either

Best,

[mubes]

I don't suppose anyone knows a way to list the installed options on this scope via SCPI, do they? The 'normal' *OPT? doesn't seem to deliver the goods, and there's nothing in the programming manual suggesting a route.

DAVE

[tautech]

I don't suppose anyone knows a way to list the installed options on this scope via SCPI, do they? The 'normal' *OPT? doesn't seem to deliver the goods, and there's nothing in the programming manual suggesting a route.

DAVE

Why ? 

If you go to the Options page in the Utility menu and hit Print you can get that screenshot sent to a USB stick if you need some record of what's installed.

[nctnico]

I don't suppose anyone knows a way to list the installed options on this scope via SCPI, do they? The 'normal' *OPT? doesn't seem to deliver the goods, and there's nothing in the programming manual suggesting a route.

DAVE

Why ? 

Simple: say you want to write a piece of software which depends on a certain option; you will want to detect whether that option is installed and if that is not the case present a clear warning to the user instead of failing in an undefined way. Probably you can achieve the same using checks to access optional functionality but in general that is not the easiest way.

[mubes]

Simple: say you want to write a piece of software which depends on a certain option; you will want to detect whether that option is installed and if that is not the case present a clear warning to the user instead of failing in an undefined way. Probably you can achieve the same using checks to access optional functionality but in general that is not the easiest way.

This. Porting all the functionality of scopehal is going to be a bit tricky without such a capability....

[Steamdonkey]

What probes are included from the factory with this machine?

• SDS2104X+: 4x PP215 - Correct?
• SDS2204X+: 4x PP430 ?
• SDS2354X+: 4x PP430 ?

My SDS2104X+ came with PP510, the 100MHz Siglent probes.

Same here. Ordered an SDS2104X+ from tequipment.net, which arrived yesterday, and it came with 4x PP510 100MHz probes.  Not sure what brand they are. 

[tautech]

What probes are included from the factory with this machine?

• SDS2104X+: 4x PP215 - Correct?
• SDS2204X+: 4x PP430 ?
• SDS2354X+: 4x PP430 ?

My SDS2104X+ came with PP510, the 100MHz Siglent probes.

Same here. Ordered an SDS2104X+ from tequipment.net, which arrived yesterday, and it came with 4x PP510 100MHz probes. 

Ask them to replace them with PP215's as listed in the datasheet.

[TK]

What probes are included from the factory with this machine?

• SDS2104X+: 4x PP215 - Correct?
• SDS2204X+: 4x PP430 ?
• SDS2354X+: 4x PP430 ?

My SDS2104X+ came with PP510, the 100MHz Siglent probes.

Same here. Ordered an SDS2104X+ from tequipment.net, which arrived yesterday, and it came with 4x PP510 100MHz probes. 

Ask them to replace them with PP215's as listed in the datasheet.

Received my unit today from tequipment... calibration date is February 2021, received 4 x PP510 probes.  It is clear by now that someone at the factory decided to cut some cost

[tautech]

Received my unit today from tequipment... calibration date is February 2021, received 4 x PP510 probes.  It is clear by now that someone at the factory decided to cut some cost

Actually not but I won't go into this until I have official confirmation.

Please see you claim for the correct PP215 probe as replacements.

[Steamdonkey]

My SDS2104X+ came with PP510, the 100MHz Siglent probes.

Same here. Ordered an SDS2104X+ from tequipment.net, which arrived yesterday, and it came with 4x PP510 100MHz probes. 

Ask them to replace them with PP215's as listed in the datasheet.

I can't seem to find any current documentation that lists the probes that come with the SDS2104X+.  Maybe with the current limited time offer (free software - I2S, FlexRay, Mil-1553B, CANFD, Power Analysis and Built-in 50MHz AWG) that runs through the end of the month they're shipping it with cheaper probes. 

[tautech]

My SDS2104X+ came with PP510, the 100MHz Siglent probes.

Same here. Ordered an SDS2104X+ from tequipment.net, which arrived yesterday, and it came with 4x PP510 100MHz probes. 

Ask them to replace them with PP215's as listed in the datasheet.

I can't seem to find any current documentation that lists the probes that come with the SDS2104X+.  Maybe with the current limited time offer (free software - I2S, FlexRay, Mil-1553B, CANFD, Power Analysis and Built-in 50MHz AWG) that runs through the end of the month they're shipping it with cheaper probes.

P3 of the datasheet.
See here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3525558/#msg3525558

If you received PP510 probes they are wrong and claim for the correct 200 MHz PP215 probes.

[Martin72]

Regardless of wrong or right cheapest probes delivered, it´s a strange policy from siglent, giving the cheapest probes they can get to this not-so-cheap-anymore-scope.
I would expect that for their very low price models, not for this one.
When rigol could offer 350Mhz probes even with their 70Mhz model of the 5000 series, which costs nearly 500 bucks less...
When Lecroy doesn´t have a problem to pack their 350Mhz scope with 4 500Mhz probes, where each of them will costs extremely when buying separately..
...It tells me, that probes itselfs will cost not much for rigol or lecroy.
But for siglent ?
What will happen, when I´m upgrading the bandwith official ?
Do I get new probes with the license key too ?
I think not..

[tautech]

Regardless of wrong or right cheapest probes delivered, it´s a strange policy from siglent,

It's not policy but nonadherence to the official datasheet.

Let me say this again....anyone that receives PP510 probes with a new SDS2104X Plus instead of the specified PP215 probes contact your supplier to have them replaced.