Siglent SNA5000A two and four port VNA's

[tautech]

4 new models of 2 and 4 port VNA's of 4.5 and 8.5 GHz. 2 port models of 13.5 and 26.5 GHz

Update Feb 28 2023:
2 further 2 port models added to the SNA5000A range pushing max frequencies to 13.5 or 26.5 GHz
NMD 3.5 mm connectors used for these 2 new high frequency models.



Models available:                         Ports
SNA5002A     9 kHz~4.5 GHz        2   
SNA5004A     9 kHz~4.5 GHz        4   
SNA5012A     9 kHz~8.5 GHz        2   
SNA5014A     9 kHz~8.5 GHz        4   
SNA5022A     100kHz-13.5GHz      2   
SNA5032A     100kHz-26.5GHz      2


Feature summary
Output power setting range: -55 dBm ~ +10 dBm
Dynamic range: 125dB
2/4 port S parameter measurement, differential (balanced) measurement, time domain analysis
12.1" touch display c/w mouse and keyboard support
HDMI
Web server

The SNA5000X series supports adding multiple traces in multiple windows for full 4-port S-parameter testing, and has multiple display formats, such as Log Mag, Lin Mag, Phase, Delay, Smith, SWR, Polar, etc., which can be easily and quickly analyzed The transmission coefficient, reflection coefficient, standing wave ratio, impedance matching, phase, delay and other parameters of the measured object.

https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sna5000a/
https://siglentna.com/vector-network-analyzer/sna5000a/
https://www.siglenteu.com/vector-network-analyzer/sna5000a-series/
US and Euro pricing in above links.

Feb 2023 Updated datasheet:
https://siglentna.com/download/21667/?tmstv=1677565568

Comparison spreadsheet attached.
Released July 2021

The Signal Path review:
August 2022


Siglent video:

[Qw3rtzuiop]

Price for the base model seems to be 69980 CNY so appr. 10700 USD.

Here is a video:
https://share.plvideo.cn/front/video/preview?vid=a29fa437566e8e74113d3ef8ef769047_a

[Sighound36]

Nice use of Lecroy Waver-surfer 4000HD case work 

[joeqsmith]

Would like to see the actual documentation for it when it becomes available.   

The marketing sheet and video show mechanical calibration.  Do they offer an ecal for it?   

[hendorog]

The marketing sheet and video show mechanical calibration.  Do they offer an ecal for it?

No eCal is available.

IIRC one was hinted at in a disabled menu option on the SVA firmware a while ago. But there have been some changes to the cal menu since and that option is not there anymore.

[tautech]

4 new models of 2 and 4 port VNA's of 4.5 and 8.5 GHz.

Price and release date unknown at this time.
More info as it comes to hand.

Forecast release is July 20 2021.
English datasheet now attached in the OP.

[Sighound36]

TT have you preformed a direct comparsion between the 2 and for port models at all?

[tautech]

TT have you preformed a direct comparsion between the 2 and for port models at all?

Not got my hands on one yet and as the special distributor price is still pretty steep not sure I will. 

AFAICT from the datasheet there are no performance differences between 2 and 4 port models.

Web link added to the OP. Further info to come shortly.

[tautech]

Do they offer an ecal for it?

Not yet in my pricelist however one may be coming or maybe other eCal will be supported if this image from a 8MB PPT presentation is anything to go by:

[tautech]

Price for the base model seems to be 69980 CNY so appr. 10700 USD.

Sub 7.5k 8.5k actually.

[tonyalbus]

Price for the base model seems to be 69980 CNY so appr. 10700 USD.

Sub 7.5k actually.

Should be able to release pricing soon.

Hi Tautech

Pricing for EU is available here. Ships EU
https://www.eleshop.nl/testen-meten/vector-network-analysers.html

This is my Siglent dealer here in NL, i had some barrows from them (some stayed as you know) 
i have asked a demo, so lets see, hope it happens, can't wait

[tv84]

A Siglent costing 26k€ ? ? 

Siglent is turning A-brand... at least in price.

[tautech]

A Siglent costing 26k€ ? ? 

€21700 is list plus options if any.......

And I know more expensive are coming.....
Eg: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa5000a-spectrum-analyzers-coming/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssg5000a-13-6-and-20-ghz-rf-sig-gens-coming/

Just wish we had these a year ago but instead our customer went for a 26 GHz KS SA @ $250k NZD ! 

[djhatton]

Any news with these things? I am in the market for a VNA and it looks like a half decent product. But they can't actually be serious with the pricing? A us$20k premium for the extra channels and a bw unlock? 

I don't get it. They could totally own the entry level, do that market disruption thing they are trying to be good at. There is a hole there, for sure. But who in their right mind would buy a Siglent for KS/R&S money? Pfft.

Maybe they won't sell many, then drop the price many percents, then sell many

[tautech]

Any news with these things? I am in the market for a VNA and it looks like a half decent product. But they can't actually be serious with the pricing? A us$20k premium for the extra channels and a bw unlock? 

I don't get it. They could totally own the entry level, do that market disruption thing they are trying to be good at. There is a hole there, for sure. But who in their right mind would buy a Siglent for KS/R&S money? Pfft.

Maybe they won't sell many, then drop the price many percents, then sell many

New overview video that may be of interest:

[tv84]

First FW public release ( v1.0.0.2.8 ) is out!

Product_ID = 40000

Parsing:

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0000000C - Product_ID: 40000
00000026 - Vendor/Brand: SIGLENT
0000003A - USB Host Controller: ISP1763
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Decrypting the 0x2800 and 0x1400 blocks...
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  File Processed OK


Options: 

SNA5000A-TDA - Time-Domain analysis
SNA5000A-TDR - Enhanced Time-Domain analysis
SNA5000A-HPR - High performance reference source (HW option)

BW45 - BandWidth-4.5G
BW85 - BandWidth-8.5G

Some new and interesting SCPI commands attached (not the full list).

[luudee]

Hi Guys,

two questions regarding the SNA5000A:

1. Can it work as a standard Spectrum analyzer with a TG? Where is the TG output in that case? Any limitations it would have over a SSA3032X Plus?

2. Do the standard old hacks work with this baby?

Many Thanks,
luudee

[1design]

It would be interesting to see the thought process that someone goes through that results in buying one of these

It is slow, with mediocre performance, limited capabilities and non competitive pricing. We are talking serious corner cases here. Maybe Chinese universities or countries with embargoes?

[luudee]

It would be interesting to see the thought process that someone goes through that results in buying one of these

It is slow, with mediocre performance, limited capabilities and non competitive pricing. We are talking serious corner cases here. Maybe Chinese universities or countries with embargoes?

OK, so which units would you recommend instead?
What is better and cheaper?

Thank you
rudi

[1design]

Hi Rudi,

which SNA were you looking at? Each unit has a different alternative to it. It depends on the functionality and performance that you are looking for.
What will you be using the instrument for? Simple filter design, maybe amplifier design, frequency converter design, etc...

The SNA doesn't support frequency offset, so no miyer testing or Transmitter/receiver testing. It has a slow sweep speed that limits manual filter tuning, similar to TTR500 units from Tek. Maybe this is not a issue for you if you do not perform such tasks.

Once you share more details, I can give you some better or cheaper alternatives.

[luudee]

Hi 1design,

thank you for your reply.

My consideration is for all of the above, filter design, amplifier design, frequency converter design, Transmitter/receiver testing ...

My application will most likely be below 3Ghz for now, at some point in the future, I might need to go to 5 GHz.
I do not consider myself a serious user ... thinking of it as a adult toy, to expand my capabilities ...

To be honest, I haven't looked very far at all as to what is available. I have to admit that I am a big Siglent
fan, I like their equipment, and the price seems to be right, and they are hackable ...

Who else makes a comparable/better unit in the same price range?

Many Thanks !
rudi

[1design]

Based on you reply, the SNA5000 family would not suffice to your requirements as it does not support frequency offset measurements.
Nevertheless, of your hart is set on Siglent than my answer might be in vain altogether.

Baseline: SNA5002A(4.5GHz) for $8,499: https://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SNA5002A/Network-Analyzer/?search=true
Sweep: 150us/point fully called 2 port
Dyn,. range: 125dB (30MHz to 4.5GHz)
Noise fl.:-125dBm/Hz


In your price and frequency range there are a few alternative options:
Tek TTR503(3GHz) for $6,000: Slow sweep speed, no offset freq. options, similar performance to SNA https://www.tek.com/datasheet/vector-network-analyzers
Pico VNA 106(6GHz) for $6,500: 185us/point fully called, no offset freq. option, has AM to PM measurement, lower performance than SNA https://www.tequipment.net/Pico/VNA-106/Network-Analyzer/?b=y&v=99940#description
Copper Mountain M5045(4.5GHz) for $7,895: 70us/point fully called, no offset freq. option, has AM to PM measurement, higher performance than SNA https://online.fliphtml5.com/pbaab/xzks/#p=13
Copper mountain S5054(4.5GHz) for $10,995.00: The same as the M5045 with added frequency offset capabilities.

At the end of the day, if all you want to do is learn and do basic measurements with reasonable accuracy, than a LibreVNA or NanoVNA might be a much smarter way to spend your hard earned cash

LibreVNA: https://www.amazon.com/Analyzer-AURSINC-100KHz-6GHz-Measuring-Parameters/dp/B092Q6W2Z6
NanoVNA: https://nanorfe.com/nanovna-v2.html

When looking at VNA data, there is a lot to compare, I did a VERY rough comparison. The trace noise, dynamic range, uncertainties, calibrated/uncalibrated directivity etc. are all very important when doing precise measurements.
Making sure to check the resBW at which each company specifies their parameters so you compare apples to apples is very important.

If you want to do PA measurements, the Output power range is important together with its accuracy specifications.

Hopefully this helped a bit Personally I would go with Copper mountain for 2 ports.

[tautech]

For the last few days a buddy in the US has said his was coming and no sooner than it had arrived and booted he FaceTime'd me. 
All I could hear while watching him fiddling with it was expletive, expletive, expletive this thing is so fast !
A couple of us in NZ had a small while with webserver control then had to pack it in as the poor US fella had to get some sleep.

~4 weeks and we'll have one to play with. 

[Sighound36]

The SNA5084 is rather good, nice intuitive features, multiple screen presentation, packed with features that are useable and useful. Plus Time domain, TDR and SA modes.

Really nice 12.1" high resolution touch screen, good file management and its just great to use. so far have been quiety impressed, it has a place on the test bench not much equipment gets to stay there, the SNA5084 does.

[egonotto]

Hello,

I can not find a SNA5084 do you mean a SNA5014A?

Best regards
egonotto

[grouchobyte]

Hello,

I can not find a SNA5084 do you mean a SNA5014A?

Best regards
egonotto

egonotto….

The SNA5084X in the same instrument as the SNA5104A less the bias-t ports. Early on these were released in China and later renamed. These are not re-badged and designed from the ground up by Siglent’s RF group.

Sighound36 is correct, this is a very capable instrument!

-grouchobyte

[Sighound36]

Apologies I have been tied up with some really in-depth projects recently so its taken up a lot of my time hence ny absence from this place.

The Siglent 5000 model VNA is surprisingly good and given the features and easy of use and accuracy compared to some of the more lower order big brands ranges really deserves a proper demonstration and evaluation in your lab.

While this is not really aimed at the hobbist, its has such a deep of possibilities and feature sets that it needs to be taken seriously. I am very fortunate to straddle that work / home lab stance. My lab is nicely equipped with a range of quality instruments for various aspects of electronic design and production. While I am not a true RF daylight specialist, I use TDR for high-speed serial data signal integrity testing and board layouts. Also cable characterisations along with connector robustness and insertion loss measurements. They are far more capable RF engineers on here than myself, consider me a capable amateur in this department.

While not a true TEA person, I do have twenty + quality pieces in my lab plus a large selection of quality probes, various LINS' dual DC and AC, power analysers, three phase, single and DC, 6.5/7.5 and 8.5 digit DMM, various scopes to 8Ghz and RTA spectrum analysers rf probes etc.

The Siglent VNA 5000 has been a real nice addition to my test bench, maybe I use it twice a week now and it hooks up nicely to the large screen I have in here which is a nice feature to have. I do remember the old HP days and those lovely 4/5" CRT displays and the extra work out's when moving said boat anchors around the lab!

What I would say is that I am quite discerning when it comes to choosing test equipment, I am lucky to be able to assign budgets to various projects where normally it would involve a planning meeting to get a planning meeting organised to present the case for budget allocation in-front of a panel of bean counters! However we select equipment that really does the job correctly based on what is involved , reliability, quality of the instruments and can the guys use it easily without requiring a Ph.d in GUI deciphering

Images of said VNA in action with some spectrum analyser rough plots to demonstrate its futire potential.

[hendorog]

I believe Sighound36 is smply modestly explaining their work.

There is nothing to be concluded from the images as they stand, but you could have been slightly polite and just asked what was being demonstrated.

[tv84]

You are either a profesxional or a hobbyist. I doubt you are either after reading your mildly incoherent ramblings.

If you are a hobbyist, you have a rather lavish budget that allows you to put the SNA on your personal bench.
If you are a professional,  then its not clear what you do and why you need a network analyzer like the SNA5000 just for TDR and SI work

The “rough images” you posted don't reveal a thing other than proof that you have an SNA.

Amateur indeed. Capable? Not convinced.

  What you should have extracted from Sighound36's "ramblings" is that a guy who owns several equipments of an order of magnitude greater than the 5000 VNA tells you that the VNA has a place in his bench. If that doesn't tell you something about the VNA, in his perspective, I don't know what will. Maybe pictograms?

[Sighound36]

Blimely, all I was trying to get across is that is a rather a good piece of test equipment. and that's all of the very basic images I have of the said VNA currently.

I will endevor to produce some more meaning images in the coming weeks of using the Siglent VNA with a new PDN we are working on plus some strip line comparisions and a more indepth look @ the Spectrum analyser as well. Plus more basic insertion loss of a/c filter models (with correct baluns) so it will demonstrate a greater range of its capabilities.

Genuinelly like what I am using and its nice change to use an intuitive GUI on a VNA thats not £50K+

[grouchobyte]

Blimely, all I was trying to get across is that is a rather a good piece of test equipment. and that's all of the very basic images I have of the said VNA currently.

I will endevor to produce some more meaning images in the coming weeks of using the Siglent VNA with a new PDN we are working on plus some strip line comparisions and a more indepth look @ the Spectrum analyser as well. Plus more basic insertion loss of a/c filter models (with correct baluns) so it will demonstrate a greater range of its capabilities.

Genuinelly like what I am using and its nice change to use an intuitive GUI on a VNA thats not £50K+

Sighound36:

PM sent.

@Grouchobyte

[Sighound36]

Blimely, all I was trying to get across is that is a rather a good piece of test equipment. and that's all of the very basic images I have of the said VNA currently.

I will endevor to produce some more meaning images in the coming weeks of using the Siglent VNA with a new PDN we are working on plus some strip line comparisions and a more indepth look @ the Spectrum analyser as well. Plus more basic insertion loss of a/c filter models (with correct baluns) so it will demonstrate a greater range of its capabilities.

Genuinelly like what I am using and its nice change to use an intuitive GUI on a VNA thats not £50K+

Sighound36:

PM sent.

@Grouchobyte

PM sent

[tautech]

Then it finally arrives but how could/would you believe the SN# ? ?   

[tautech]

Latest firmware for SNA5000A models.

Version V1.0.0.2.10
64 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Vector%20Network%20Analyzer/SNA5000_V1.0.0.2.10_EN.zip

Release notes
1. Added spectrum analyzer option
2. Fixed input bug in network configuration window
3. Fixed mouse click input box crash bug
4. Increased the touch-sensitive area of the DHCP checkbox
5. Modified the policy when the DHCP request fails

[tautech]

It's getting hard to keep up with all the new variants coming......
2 more new 2 port only models of 100 kHz-13.5 or 26.5 GHz. 

26.5 GHz model will of course sport 3.5mm NMD (male) 50Ω connectors.

Chinese datasheet
https://www.siglent.com/u_file/download/22_03_23/SNA5000A_DataSheet_DS09050_C01B.pdf

[tautech]

New firmware for SNA5000A models

Version： V1.0.0.2.10.R5
66MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Vector%20Network%20Analyzer/SNA5000_V1.0.0.2.10.R5_EN.zip

Release notes
1. Added independent configuration function of emission source in spectrum mode
2. Optimized the sweep process
3. Optimized TDR interface
4. Added command for transferring file data
5. Added marker->SA commands

[tv84]

So, these are the 4-port models, right?

SNA5004A - 4.5 GHz
SNA5014A - 8.5 GHz
SNA5024A - 13.5 GHz
SNA5034A - 26.5 GHz

[tautech]

So, these are the 4-port models, right?

SNA5004A - 4.5 GHz
SNA5014A - 8.5 GHz
SNA5024A - 13.5 GHz
SNA5034A - 26.5 GHz

Not quite and this is where it gets darn confusing but let's examine the current model lineup for a bit.

SNA5000A as we in the west know them at this time consists of just 4 models, 4.5 or 8.5 GHz and 2 or 4 port versions whereas the 2 newer higher BW models coming are only 2 port and 13.5 or 26.5 GHz.

Did I say it gets confusing, well this is why, China knows the 4 models we now have in the west as the SNA5000X series, not the SNA5000A series as we do and to further complicate matters they know the 2 new 2 port models yet to come to the west as SNA5000A. 

A quick wander around the Chinese HQ website reveals all this twisted model branding which then makes you wonder why.....trying to put tv84 off the scent can be the only reasonable explanation ! 

[tv84]

Not quite so. This is the contents of the NSP_trends_config_info.xml file inside a SNA5000:

Code: [Select]

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<nsp_trends_info_root>
<device>
<language>english</language>
<pid>0x1700</pid>
<vid>0xf4ec</vid>
<product_type_1>SNA5002A</product_type_1>
<product_type_2>SNA5004A</product_type_2>
<product_type_3>SNA5012A</product_type_3>
<product_type_4>SNA5014A</product_type_4>
<product_type_5>SNA5022A</product_type_5>
<product_type_6>SNA5024A</product_type_6>
<product_type_7>SNA5032A</product_type_7>
<product_type_8>SNA5034A</product_type_8>
<manufacturer>Siglent</manufacturer>
<Support_Touch_Flag>1</Support_Touch_Flag>
<Support_VXI11_Flag>1</Support_VXI11_Flag>
<file_prefix>CP_</file_prefix>
</device>
</nsp_trends_info_root>
Any clearer?

[tautech]

Not quite so. This is the contents of the NSP_trends_config_info.xml file inside a SNA5000:

Code: [Select]

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<nsp_trends_info_root>
<device>
<language>english</language>
<pid>0x1700</pid>
<vid>0xf4ec</vid>
<product_type_1>SNA5002A</product_type_1>
<product_type_2>SNA5004A</product_type_2>
<product_type_3>SNA5012A</product_type_3>
<product_type_4>SNA5014A</product_type_4>
<product_type_5>SNA5022A</product_type_5>
<product_type_6>SNA5024A</product_type_6>
<product_type_7>SNA5032A</product_type_7>
<product_type_8>SNA5034A</product_type_8>
<manufacturer>Siglent</manufacturer>
<Support_Touch_Flag>1</Support_Touch_Flag>
<Support_VXI11_Flag>1</Support_VXI11_Flag>
<file_prefix>CP_</file_prefix>
</device>
</nsp_trends_info_root>
Any clearer?

A little. 
SNA5024A, SNA5034A
2 more 4 port models to come. 

[tautech]

Do they offer an ecal for it?

Not yet in my pricelist however one may be coming or maybe other eCal will be supported if this image from a 8MB PPT presentation is anything to go by:

In the latest Siglent newsletter a reminder these do support Ecal units however only Keysight at this time:
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/sna5000a-supported-ecal-units/

The SNA5000A currently supports the following ECal units (starting with firmware revision 1.0.0.2.9.R5)

Keysight
N4433A
85092C

[tv84]

Another one for the "semirandom but careful mistakes" collection... 

[tautech]

Part 1 of Shahriar's SNA5000A review:

[tomud]

Part 1 of Shahriar's SNA5000A review:

Cooll   

I have been waiting for it - we will see if it is time to start putting money into the piggy bank to buy the SNA5000 

[tautech]

Cooll   

I have been waiting for it - we will see if it is time to start putting money into the piggy bank to buy the SNA5000 

Unfortunately we might need to wait a few weeks for a later instalment until Siglent comes back to Shahriar with some firmware improvements he has asked for. As yet we don’t know what they are in detail but really looking forward to the next instalment. 

[tomud]

Cooll   

I have been waiting for it - we will see if it is time to start putting money into the piggy bank to buy the SNA5000 

Unfortunately we might need to wait a few weeks for a later instalment until Siglent comes back to Shahriar with some firmware improvements he has asked for. As yet we don’t know what they are in detail but really looking forward to the next instalment. 

I'm in no hurry  These are not small amounts, so it will probably take a while to save money for the purchase.

However, I have a question, TV84 showed that you can convert 5004A to 5014A, I wonder if such a possibility exists in the 5002A version 
And does such a modification have any disadvantages (e.g. lack of factory calibration to 8.5GHz, etc.).

Ehh why am I watching these movies. The 4.5 GHz version with two ports has an attractive price, but after watching the movie, the version with four ports is tempting  It will end so that I will eat bread with water to save for the purchase of equipment

[tautech]

However, I have a question, TV84 showed that you can convert 5004A to 5014A, I wonder if such a possibility exists in the 5002A version 

Only to SNA5012A I imagine.
Early in the video from Shahriar he shows 2 RF sections stacked for the 4 port device so the 2 port models will only have 1 RF section.
See pic below:

And does such a modification have any disadvantages (e.g. lack of factory calibration to 8.5GHz, etc.).

Yes of course as the factory calibration sheet will not match the model # or the Sys Info.
But it would seem from the teardown the RF modules are all 8.5GHz however this is just a suspicion, maybe they grade them IDK.

[Sighound36]

Its a very good explanational video on the SNA5000A, I have been using my one more and more recently and only just relaised they is a FW update (Thanks TT) and I suspect more on the way after P2 of the video.

For the money this really does tick a serious amount of boxes and its nice ot use as well. Sorry we have been seriousy busy of late.

[tautech]

Its a very good explanational video on the SNA5000A, I have been using my one more and more recently and only just realized they is a FW update and I suspect more on the way after P2 of the video.

For the money this really does tick a serious amount of boxes and its nice to use as well. Sorry we have been seriously busy of late.

Instead I believe something was discovered and until new FW or a beta is available Pt 2 will wait.
Shahriar mentions he's working with Siglent engineers ~45.30 and wants to give them a chance to make some improvements.
However you are most probably correct Shahriar will get the beta before there is any public release.

[TheSteve]

Maybe I need to re-watch the video but did we see Shahriar use his Keysight N4691B ECAL with the power on the Siglent turned up to 10 dBm? That is the absolute max power allowed for that model of ECAL, but anytime I use one with a Keysight VNA it will not allow power that high as ECAL performance is reduced.

[G0HZU]

I think the normal max input is -5dBm for that Ecal model if you want a decent calibration without compression effects.

I think that 10dBm is the damage level. Maybe (hopefully!) the Siglent VNA would be smart enough to turn down the RF level if an unwary operator tried to put 10dBm into the Ecal as this is right on the damage level for the Ecal.

At 26:09 in the video the VNA appears to be displaying about a 142dB range in places with 500Hz bandwidth (!) which doesn't seem likely even with 10dBm source power and 32 averages. So I'd suspect some issue with calibration or a bug in the system that makes the dynamic range appear much greater than it really is. Maybe this is caused by the attempt to calibrate at 10dBm. At 27:32 with the S31 measurement the noise floor is generally higher with the same settings.

[tautech]

Maybe I need to re-watch the video but did we see Shahriar use his Keysight N4691B ECAL with the power on the Siglent turned up to 10 dBm? That is the absolute max power allowed for that model of ECAL, but anytime I use one with a Keysight VNA it will not allow power that high as ECAL performance is reduced.

You should take up this issue with Shahriar directly in the comments section below his video.

[TheSteve]

Maybe I need to re-watch the video but did we see Shahriar use his Keysight N4691B ECAL with the power on the Siglent turned up to 10 dBm? That is the absolute max power allowed for that model of ECAL, but anytime I use one with a Keysight VNA it will not allow power that high as ECAL performance is reduced.

You should take up this issue with Shahriar directly in the comments section below his video.

I don't usually post in the comments section of videos. Either way it would be nice to know if Siglent is going to support Keysight ECAL's that they aren't risking damage to them. Given the cost of the ECAL(quite likely more than the entire Siglent VNA) it is a pretty significant potential issue. And I did say potential, they may be reducing power during calibration. However generally turning the power up after a calibration adds additional error or invalidates it altogether.

[tautech]

Maybe I need to re-watch the video but did we see Shahriar use his Keysight N4691B ECAL with the power on the Siglent turned up to 10 dBm? That is the absolute max power allowed for that model of ECAL, but anytime I use one with a Keysight VNA it will not allow power that high as ECAL performance is reduced.

You should take up this issue with Shahriar directly in the comments section below his video.

I don't usually post in the comments section of videos. Either way it would be nice to know if Siglent is going to support Keysight ECAL's that they aren't risking damage to them. Given the cost of the ECAL(quite likely more than the entire Siglent VNA) it is a pretty significant potential issue. And I did say potential, they may be reducing power during calibration. However generally turning the power up after a calibration adds additional error or invalidates it altogether.

100% which should also provide an Uncal warning.

There are some clues in the User manual E-Cal chapter starting on P90.
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/22_07_06/SNA5000A_UserManual_UM09050_E01D.pdf

Currently Rossenberger provide much of Siglent's high end RF accessories including SOLT Cal kits however for the coming 26.5 GHz models it seems only a mechanical Cal kit is to be available but they may be working on an E-Cal IDK.

27 GHz 3.5mm Cal kit

[G0HZU]

I watched the whole video this evening and spotted that the top (RF) side of the board used for tracing the signal is actually the 'flipped image' rather than the bottom although it doesn't really matter.

I think a downconverter is used for the lowest part of the signal generation range and this probably covers something like 0-1.8 GHz. It is on this range where the performance seems to be degraded during the tests of the 4 port active device. I know the source power has been reduced to -30dBm but a typical lab VNA should perform much better than this in terms of trace noise and ripple for -30dBm source and 5 kHz BW. See the image below where I think an internal range change occurs at about 1850 MHz. Below this range change the performance seems to degrade a lot as it has a lot of ripple and noise. Above 1850 MHz the trace noise shows an instant improvement and looks to be as expected for -30dBm and 5kHz BW.

Also, at 29:11 to 29:12 in the video a couple of brief but suspicious trace blips occur in this 1850 MHz region. See the second image below. When a VNA changes range on the synthesiser the VCO has to jump to a very different frequency and settle correctly before the VNA can gather any s-parameter measurements. It looks to me that something isn't right about the lower range because of the noisy and ripply response and also because of the sporadic trace blips in this area. I don't think this can be blamed on a 'casual' calibration or 'lower return loss' as the performance suddenly degrades (badly) at a distinct part of the frequency range.

It could be caused by something as simple as a synthesiser/tracking error when used on the lowest range. This might be fixable in FW.

[G0HZU]

I suppose another reason could be that something went wrong during the full 4 port calibration. Doing a full 4 port cal using just a two port Ecal would be quite a tedious process so maybe something happened during this procedure to corrupt the 0-1850 MHz part of the span. Maybe a port cable was swapped too quickly before the analyser had finished a sweep for example. However, the sporadic upward blips at 29:11 and 29:12 look suspicious to me. There's also a permanent downward dip in the trace at 1850MHz when the blips disappear. This doesn't look right either.

[tautech]

I suppose another reason could be that something went wrong during the full 4 port calibration. Doing a full 4 port cal using just a two port Ecal would be quite a tedious process so maybe something happened during this procedure to corrupt the 0-1850 MHz part of the span. Maybe a port cable was swapped too quickly before the analyser had finished a sweep for example. However, the sporadic upward blips at 29:11 and 29:12 look suspicious to me. There's also a permanent downward dip in the trace here either side of the upward blips. This doesn't look right either.

Later when some time is available I’ll do a 2 port Cal with ~1.85 GHz set to CF to examine this more closely.
We have the 4.5 GHz Siglent SMA Cal kit which puts that near the middle.
Poke me if I get distracted please. 

[G0HZU]

Thanks. Can you do it at -30dBm source power and 5kHz BW?

It's a while since I've been inside one of the old Agilent E5071B VNAs but the 5071B uses a similar octave tuning VCO that also covers (I think) 2 to 4GHz.

The 5071B VNAs can be prone to synth locking issues at the range change points. From memory this happens to the E5071B at approximately 2.1GHz and 4.2GHz and it also affects 8.3GHz. When the VNA becomes poorly it produces erratic blips at these points of the sweep because the synth can't reacquire lock quickly enough at a range change point. Sometimes it just loses lock and I think this is what happens at 8.3GHz. This initially causes noise on the synth and as the fault gets gradually worse it cause significant tracking errors. It tends to get worse as the VNA warms up. Eventually the VNA detects a lock problem and starts beeping out error messages. On a typical E5071B it takes a few weeks to go from a minor tracking problem to losing lock for significant parts of the sweep. I've seen this happen several times as I've used a lot of E5071B VNAs over the years. I think it may be a common fault as the VNA gets older. It requires a part replacement in the synthesiser module to fix it.

I'm not sure what is happening at and below 1850MHz on the Siglent VNA. It could be caused by a tracking error or maybe it is just a calibration procedure issue. The sporadic blips at 1850 MHz at 29:08 through 29:13 in the video look very similar to what I've seen on a poorly E5071B when it changes range during the sweep.

[tautech]

Thanks. Can you do it at -30dBm source power and 5kHz BW?

I'm not sure what is happening at and below 1850MHz on the Siglent VNA. It could be caused by a tracking error or maybe it is just a calibration procedure issue. The sporadic blips at 1850 MHz at 29:08 through 29:13 in the video look very similar to what I've seen on a poorly E5071B when it changes range during the sweep.

Please excuse my pitiful efforts Port 1>2 via Siglent Utility kit N-SMA adapters, 2x 6" cheap SMA cables and Cal kit Thru for a 1dB/div S21 measurement at -30dB and 5kHz BW.
I really need spend more time with this. 

[G0HZU]

Your plot doesn't look right so something has gone wrong with the calibration. Ideally, you should see a flat s21 trace with just a bit of noise on it if cal'd at -30dBm. Also, can you show s11? See below for a through measurement after a two port cal at -30dBm using a homebrew N cal kit up to 6GHz and an E5071B VNA. The s21 trace is at 1dB/div and the phase is at 5deg/div. The s11 shows >50dB return loss.

Also see a 1 port measurement of a 54.5 ohm chip resistor after a -30dBm calibration. You can see the return loss through HF and VHF is as expected at about 27dB with minimal noise with a 5kHz BW. There's no averaging or smoothing used in these plots.

[Hugoneus]

Everyone,

I skimmed through this thread which someone from YouTube pointed me to. (Thanks for that!)

Please note that you are correct about the calibration power & ECal requirements. The clip where I show the setup does not show a good calibration. I did several calibrations with different powers & ECals modules. One of my ECals allows up to 20dBm of incident power.

If you calibrate at one power and the measure at a different, the instrument warns you about it (as it should). The results will deviate of course, but this is sometimes needed; especially for active devices.

The TDS/SA options needed some work. The built-in synthesizer in conjunction with SA is very useful as well. I am working with them to improve the usability Part 2 of the review will cover those aspects.

[points2]

Hello,
I have a question to anyone that own a SNA5000a.

Does it really fit within the specs, (see this doc => https://static.eleshop.nl/mage/media/downloads/SNA5000A_DataSheet_DS09050_E01B.pdf )
- on the bottom end of the BW (from 9kHz to 1MHz let's say) ?
  for instance, within BW 30k to 100k, the datasheet mention a dynamic range of 98dB (see page 8 & 13). Is it the right figure ? Or in fact the SNA performs a bit better ?
- and when we use a minimum IFBW (10Hz) ? measurements are in line with the datasheet too ?

It's for PDN measurements, that's why I ask about low freq range, although I'll use the full BW of the SNA5002a (up to 4.5G), this is the model I plan to buy. 
Sorry about these basic questions... I'd like to be sure that this "entre-level" 5002a is in line with the 3 others SNA, given that the price tag of the SNA5002a is very attractive (vs other 4.5G VNAs) ; especially vs the SNA 8.5G or even the 4 ports 4.5G model where price jumps by 2x or 4x...)

Thanks for feedback. 
Regards

[tautech]

Kick me please, I have not been keeping up with the firmware updates for these models. 
There have been 2 in the last few months so I will list both release notes but only link in the latest version as it is the only one you need to install.

Version V1.0.0.2.10R9
70MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Vector%20Network%20Analyzer/SNA5000A_V1.0.0.2.10R9.zip

10R9 Release notes
1. Added scalar mixer measurement function
2. Adjusted and optimized the spectrum analysis measure interface

10R8 Release notes
1. Added Freq Offset function
2. Optimized some functions of spectrum analysis
3. Added status bar to display smooth status
4. Added advanced mode for bandwidth search, support frequency percentage bandwidth setting function
5. Optimized the Marker->Delay algorithm

[Smokey]

...
The TDS/SA options needed some work. The built-in synthesizer in conjunction with SA is very useful as well. I am working with them to improve the usability Part 2 of the review will cover those aspects.

How has your experience been working with them as what sounds like a technical consultant?  Are they paying you in something other than free equipment?

[tv84]

@tautech,

What's this new SMM option for?

[2N3055]

@tautech,

What's this new SMM option for?

sales brochure..

SIGLENT has added the SNA5000-SMM scalar mixer measurement function to the latest FW version of the SNA5000A vector network analyzer. A Mixer is an important part of the microwave and millimeter wave system, and its characteristics directly affect the performance of equipment or instrument. At every stage of mixer development and production, it is necessary to measure its performance index, including conversion loss, phase and group delay, the 1 dB compensation point, isolation between ports and port VSWR. For two port models, an external signal generator is used as LO signals. For four port models, there is no need of external sources, the full test can be made with built-in sources. SIGLENT SNA5000A vector network analyzer with Scalar Mixer Measurement function can easily perform measurements of these parameters.

[tautech]

Coming soon, E Cal modules in 4.5 - 26.5 GHz in N, SMA and 3.5mm.

[tautech]

2 further higher frequency 2 port models of 13.5 GHz and 26.5 GHz added to the range.
OP updated.

[tautech]

New firmware for SNA5000A models.
63 MB
Version： V1.0.0.2.10R10

https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Vector%20Network%20Analyzer/SNA5000A_V1.0.0.2.10R10.zip

Release notes
1. Added user manual calibration and verification function  (option)
2. Added the function that the number of vertical grid can be set
3. Added the function of supporting logarithmic display of vertical coordinates
4. Added point limit function

[tautech]

New firmware for SNA5000A models.

Version： V1.0.0.2.11.R1
~70MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Vector%20Network%20Analyzer/SNA5000A_V1.0.0.2.11.R1_EN.zip

2 port SNA5022A & SNA5032A models:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Vector%20Network%20Analyzer/SNA5022A&SNA5032A_V1.0.0.2.11.R1.zip

Release notes
1. Fixed the range limits for frequency and power in mixer measurements
2. Fixed the trace title bar color to match the memory trace color

Includes unreported Version： V1.0.0.2.11 update release notes:
Added Pulse modulation function

[tautech]

New ECal units just released.

SEM5000A range.
4.5, 9, 13.5 and 26.5 GHz, 2 and 4 port N type, SMA and 3.5mm variants.
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/images/23_09_25/SEM5000A_datasheet_DS60050_E01A.pdf

SEM5000A series electronic calibrators include 5002A / 5012A / 5022A / 5032A / 5004A / 5014A / 5024A / 5034A, covering the frequency bands of 9kHz to 4.5GHz / 9kHz to 9GHz / 100kHz to 13.5GHz / 100kHz to 26.5GHz, with USB interface for communication and power supply, and the RF connectors come in three forms: SMA, 3.5mm, and Type-N. They are suitable for calibration and error correction of SHA850A series, SVA1000X series and SNA5000A series vector network analyzers of SIGLENT. The SEM5000A series are simple, fast, efficient, accurate, and widely applicable.

Prices from $2,345

[tautech]

ECal video.

[tautech]

TDR Measurements

[tautech]

SSM5000A Switch Matrix
https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/ssm5000a/



Maximum frequency: 9 GHz/ 26.5 GHz
Maximum number of input ports: 4
Maximum number of output ports: 24
RF connector: 3.5mm female
Support a simplified multi-port calibration algorithm
Interface: LAN, USB Device, Direct Control (in), Direct Control (out)

https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/23_09_27/SSM5000A%20datasheet%20EN02A.pdf

[tautech]

Quick look at 4 GHz harmonics with 26.6 GHz SNA5032A in Analyzer mode before it must go to the customer.

[tautech]

VNA resources, app notes etc
https://siglentna.com/vector-network-analysis-component-characterization/

[tautech]

SNA5004A
Member EE-digger asked for some HPAK Cal kit support screenshots.
15 HPAK Cal kits are supported.


Cal kit used F603FE Female 4.5 GHz 3.5 mm at the end of 500mm So-So cheap SMA cable connected to N-SMA adapter on N type port. Basic SOL Cal performed.