Surge Protector or Power Conditioner for Oscilloscope

[jram112]

I'm setting up my workbench, and need more outlets. Then I started to wonder if I need a power conditioner for my scope or a simple surger protetor/power strip. I use Tripplite Isobars typically for a surge protector? Connected to the power strip I'll have the scope, bench power supply, printer, function generator, soldering iron, a few small dc power supplies, and possibly my laptop.

Should I get a power-conditioning power strip, a UPS, or simply a good surge protector?

[JuanPC]

No UPS, most are modified sine wave "almost square", useless for sensitive electronic equipment.

Depends on the Budget...
PS Audio Power Plant Premier or the New P5 or P10,
are the best.

FAil safe lightning strike protection...
Leveler sentry RP2400A, "new vas2400."
http://levelerllc.com/Catalog.html
or Furman P-1800 PF R,
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=P-1800PFR
Voltage Regulator the Furman P-1800 AR is nice.
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=P-1800AR
or advanced UPS, like APC Surtra 1500XL or similar with true Sine Wave,
or a Xantrex 2000 or 3000, inverters.
http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/prosine-2.aspx
the New "very economic" ARTproaudio.com look very nice.
http://artproaudio.com/art_products/power_solutions/


look Furman Videos, very informative:
http://www.furmansound.com/video.php
http://www.furmansound.com/swf/furman_smp_plus.html

[jram112]

Some of those are too expensive for my setup. I'm looking for less than $150.

Do I need power conditioning for a digital scope? Is the mains power noise typically a problem? I'm at a university lab.

[JuanPC]

[alm]

Generally I wouldn't bother, but it depends on the quality of your local mains electricity. Scopes are designed to deal with standard unfiltered mains power, though.

[westom]

Do I need power conditioning for a digital scope? Is the mains power noise typically a problem? I'm at a university lab.

  Learn what a switching power supply does.  Any cleaning by a power conditioner is literally undone by a supply that converts power to a much higher voltage and radio wave spikes.  Then superior filters and other circuits convert that 'dirtier' power into rock solid and stable, low voltage DC.

  What anomaly are you trying to solve?  No power conditioner solves all anomalies.  In fact, the term power conditioner is usually to confuse layman into spending big bucks on solutions that were unnecessary.  To create fear among many who do not even know what a switching power supply does.

[jram112]

Good points everyone. I'm not trying to solve any problems...yet. I'm just setting up a workbench and need a power strip. That's when I started to wonder about what kind of power strip. Think I'll just get a good quality power strip with surge protection to start.

[JuanPC]

Do I need power conditioning for a digital scope? Is the mains power noise typically a problem? I'm at a university lab.

  Learn what a switching power supply does.  Any cleaning by a power conditioner is literally undone by a supply that converts power to a much higher voltage and radio wave spikes.  Then superior filters and other circuits convert that 'dirtier' power into rock solid and stable, low voltage DC.

  What anomaly are you trying to solve?  No power conditioner solves all anomalies.  In fact, the term power conditioner is usually to confuse layman into spending big bucks on solutions that were unnecessary.  To create fear among many who do not even know what a switching power supply does.

Advanced Power Conditioners have Isolated-Zones, meaning each AC output pair is Isolated from the others,
some even have outlets with filters designed for analog and others designed for digital equipment.

when measuring low voltages & low jitter the diference is amazing.
some equipment improoves amazing.

http://levelerllc.com/Documents/Common%20Mode%20Protection%20-%20Leveler.pdf

[westom]

Advanced Power Conditioners have Isolated-Zones, meaning each AC output pair is Isolated from the others,
some even have outlets with filters designed for analog and others designed for digital equipment.

 
You are confusing most consumer products with something completely different that may sell on the order of a $thousand. Many power conditioners are only a direct connection to AC mains that is switched to a battery powered inverter during some anomalies.

  Even filters in many such devices is near zero.

  What each one might do must be defined specifically with manufacturer spec numbers.  Any claim about filters or isolation, et al without spec numbers is often a rumor traceable to subjective advertising claims.  Near zero filters or isolation can also be 100% in advertising brochures.   Most, educated only by advertising, make recommendations without spec numbers.

  Best isolation is typically inside appliances.  Often rated with isolation numbers approaching or exceeding 1000 volts.

  Best power strip for a bench is a $4 power strip from Walmart that must always have one critically important part - a 15 amp circuit breaker.  Or spend a little more for one with a power switch.

  Greater concern is probably anti-static protection.

[JuanPC]

You are confusing most consumer products with something completely different that may sell on the order of a $thousand. Many power conditioners are only a direct connection to AC mains that is switched to a battery powered inverter during some anomalies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply

  Best power strip for a bench is a $4 power strip from Walmart that must always have one critically important part - a 15 amp circuit breaker.  Or spend a little more for one with a power switch.

[vk6zgo]

Some of those are too expensive for my setup. I'm looking for less than $150.

Do I need power conditioning for a digital scope? Is the mains power noise typically a problem? I'm at a university lab.

The power to your lab may already be fed through a large high current Power Conditioner.
Check with the people responsible for Mains power distribution in your University.

[SeanB]

I do have an isolating transformer, a ferroresonant unit. Do not use it often, mostly because it has a constant power draw of 1kVA. Makes a good room heater.

[alm]

You are confusing most consumer products with something completely different that may sell on the order of a $thousand. Many power conditioners are only a direct connection to AC mains that is switched to a battery powered inverter during some anomalies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply

Which shows exactly what westom described, especially the cheap off-line UPS. Don't expect consumer UPSes to be double-conversion. And don't buy into the audiofool power conditioning nonsense that some companies try to sell.

A surge protector is useful, if you have moderate surges that they can deal with. How often do you get these types of surges? If this is what your mains power looks like, then I'd have a serious talk with your power company. A direct connection to overhead wiring in an area with many lightning strikes will make it more likely, but even then there is no more reason to protect a DSO than say a computer or TV. So if you have surge protectors on all your expensive electronics, then it makes sense to use it on the DSO. Otherwise I wouldn't bother, a DSO isn't more sensitive.

[JuanPC]

Which shows exactly what westom described, especially the cheap off-line UPS. Don't expect consumer UPSes to be double-conversion.

Agree, Cheap, brand X, UPS´s or Inverters are NoGO.

How often do you get these types of surges?

there is equipment designed to answere that:
http://www.gryphon-inc.com/Spec%20Sheets/Power%20Monitoring/960028C%20-%20ONEGraph.pdf

And don't buy into the audiofool power conditioning nonsense that some companies try to sell.

I can hear a Big difference, Big enough to spend more $$$, and start designing/modify my own equipment.

there is no more reason to protect a DSO than say a computer or TV.

My DSO was $3OOOusd.
my TV is $300usd,.
1Ox more reasons.

[Carrington]

If you need a UPS then choose it with pure sine wave out.
http://www.ablerex.com.tw
http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500PFCLCD-Sinewave-Compatible-Mini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W

But I think that with the tripplite isobars is more than enough. 
http://dev.emcelettronica.com/ac-power-filter-and-phone-line-filter-homemade-circuit-breaker

[Seeagentory41]

For sensitive electrical equipment power conditioners are a must. If you have frequent voltage spikes a surge protector will be handy. It depends.

[westom]

If you have frequent voltage spikes a surge protector will be handy. It depends.

  Matters little how 'clean' or 'dirty' power is.  Because a first thing electronics do is convert those spikes to high voltage DC.  And then converts that to high voltage radio wave spikes.  'Dirtiest' power to electronics is created inside the power supply - regardless of how 'clean' AC power is.  'Sensitive electronics' is mostly urban fable since electronics even 40 years ago were required to withstand over 600 volts.  Today's electronics are even more robust.

  Output from this 120 volt UPS is 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts.  Due to superior conditioning required inside all electronics, even that UPS is ideal power.  BTW, it was promoted as a pure sine wave UPS. Because square waves and spikes are nothing more than a sum of pure sine waves.  Others recite that advertising myth by ignoring the numbers.

  Most conditioning is recommended on hearsay, fear, and wild speculation.  If needed, the recommendation came with specification numbers and numbers that define 'dirty' power.  Then we learn that most spike removers (ie Tripplite) and other conditioners are inferior to what already exists inside electronics.

  First it converts 'clean' power into 'dirtiest' in the house.  Then superior filters and other conditioners convert that 'dirtiest' power into rock solid and stable, low voltage DC.  Matters little what adjacent and expensive magic boxes do.  Best line conditioner is often inside electronics.  But then conditioners were recommended to cure something that was not even defined by numbers.  No numbers is typical of junk science reasoning.

  Some rare anomalies can overwhelm superior conditioning inside electronics.  One might occur once every seven years.   Those solutions do not work properly when adjacent to electronics.  And are beyond what the OP asked for.

[JuanPC]

If you have frequent voltage spikes a surge protector will be handy. It depends.

  Matters little how 'clean' or 'dirty' power is.  Because a first thing electronics do is convert those spikes to high voltage DC.  And then converts that to high voltage radio wave spikes.  'Dirtiest' power to electronics is created inside the power supply - regardless of how 'clean' AC power is.  'Sensitive electronics' is mostly urban fable since electronics even 40 years ago were required to withstand over 600 volts.  Today's electronics are even more robust.

  Output from this 120 volt UPS is 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts.  Due to superior conditioning required inside all electronics, even that UPS is ideal power.  BTW, it was promoted as a pure sine wave UPS. Because square waves and spikes are nothing more than a sum of pure sine waves.  Others recite that advertising myth by ignoring the numbers.

  Most conditioning is recommended on hearsay, fear, and wild speculation.  If needed, the recommendation came with specification numbers and numbers that define 'dirty' power.  Then we learn that most spike removers (ie Tripplite) and other conditioners are inferior to what already exists inside electronics.

  First it converts 'clean' power into 'dirtiest' in the house.  Then superior filters and other conditioners convert that 'dirtiest' power into rock solid and stable, low voltage DC.  Matters little what adjacent and expensive magic boxes do.  Best line conditioner is often inside electronics.  But then conditioners were recommended to cure something that was not even defined by numbers.  No numbers is typical of junk science reasoning.

  Some rare anomalies can overwhelm superior conditioning inside electronics.  One might occur once every seven years.   Those solutions do not work properly when adjacent to electronics.  And are beyond what the OP asked for.

don´t know where you learned Electronics, but you should get a refound jajajajaja

[Carrington]

don´t know where you learned Electronics, but you should get a refound jajajajaja

jajaja = LOL


In a very basic:
DC-> PWM-> Transformer-> "Pure sine wave"

[eKretz]

don´t know where you learned Electronics, but you should get a refound jajajajaja

jajaja = LOL

Thank you for that, I was wondering "What the..."

[skipjackrc4]

I use these Panamax units on my bench:

http://www.amazon.com/Panamax-M8-EX-Outlet-Surge-Protector/dp/B0002V9INM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1377097585&sr=8-3&keywords=panamax+8

I use them for the automatic shutoff if the mains voltage strays too far from nominal (brown out, small over-voltage, etc).  You definitely need surge protection, and I would only use units from known brands such as Panamax, ISOBAR, APC, etc...  You don't have to spend a ton of money on it, but I would be hesitant to buy any cheap surge protector for expensive equipment. 

I have a lot of older stuff on my bench, which doesn't have any built in surge protection and is sensitive to over-voltage (hence the auto-shutoff feature of the Panamax units).  With modern equipment with switching supplies, I don't think it would be as big of a deal.

Any type of mains filtering won't hurt, but is probably not necessary, either.  Unless you know you have a problem, I wouldn't pay the extra money for it.  That said, the Panamax units have some filtering built in.  They have published specs, though I don't know what they are off the top of my head.  I don't really care--that's not why I bought them.  Most gear has built in filtering anyway. 

[Carrington]

Anyone know where find something like this (see attachments), but full assembled.

[alm]

What problem are you trying to solve? Something very similar will probably be already in your scope, if it was found to be necessary during EMC compliance testing. The filters will probably contain a common-mode choke and some caps to filter out the high-frequency interference that an SMPS might produce. It won't do anything about distortion, whatever that document might claim. Neither will it do anything about surges, too high or too low line voltages, unlike the UPSes or surge protectors mentioned previously.

Some UPSes and surge protectors claiming to contain a filter against interference might contain something similar.

[peter.mitchell]

Bah, want to surge protect your scope? If it has a voltage rating on it of 100~265v and no voltage selector switch, just run it off batteries. 100+ VDC should be A OK

[alm]

Will that make the active PFC circuit that is likely to be present in any 100-265V power supply happy, though?