Tektronix TDS500/600/700 NVRAM floppy backup and restore tool

[flyte]

Tools and info are attached to the 1st post of this thread. Apologies, I haven't been very active here over the past year ...

[kairotronix]

Thanks for the tool! I went ahead and dumped my 744A-v4.0e, attached are the eeprom and nvram if that's wanted since I noticed there was no firmware for NVRAM-TDS744A* in the interpretation of dump data.

[TERRA Operative]

Thanks for the tool! I went ahead and dumped my 744A-v4.0e, attached are the eeprom and nvram if that's wanted since I noticed there was no firmware for NVRAM-TDS744A* in the interpretation of dump data.

If you have a GPIB adapter to your PC, could you have a go at extracting the firmware? I haven't got V4.0 in my library of firmwares yet.
The process is easy as shown in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/unified-tektool-released-!-(firmware-flash-tools-for-old-tds-series)/msg3758918/#msg3758918

Just go to step 9, unless you want to go ahead and update your firmware to 4.2.1e
https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/TDS744A

[kairotronix]

If you have a GPIB adapter to your PC, could you have a go at extracting the firmware? I haven't got V4.0 in my library of firmwares yet.
The process is easy as shown in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/unified-tektool-released-!-(firmware-flash-tools-for-old-tds-series)/msg3758918/#msg3758918

Just go to step 9, unless you want to go ahead and update your firmware to 4.2.1e
https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/TDS744A

The only GPIB adapter I have as a Prologix clone, so using the tektools will require some work from what I have read (basically re-write function calls to be compatible with Prologix and recompile).

As a note, after seeing your profile, despite being from the States I am actually currently Tokyo based. I can likely lug the scope to the Hackerspace with a laptop at some point and see if anyone has a Keysight/Agilient/NI USB/GPIB adapter.

[TERRA Operative]

The only GPIB adapter I have as a Prologix clone, so using the tektools will require some work from what I have read (basically re-write function calls to be compatible with Prologix and recompile).

Hmm, I'm not sure about that sort of stuff, I program with solder so I won't be much help.

As a note, after seeing your profile, despite being from the States I am actually currently Tokyo based. I can likely lug the scope to the Hackerspace with a laptop at some point and see if anyone has a Keysight/Agilient/NI USB/GPIB adapter.

Oh cool! I'm out Chiba way but travel in to Otemachi each day for work.
If you need spare parts, I have some bits so feel free to ask and I'll see what I've got.
Also, if you need replacement relays for your input hybrids (They are a known wear point in these scopes, you'll know when your scope fails SPC), here's the easiest and relatively cheap place to get them:
https://eleshop.jp/shop/g/g419133/

[Pete2]

I just got a TDS754A from Ebay and would like to replace the NVRAM chips. For backup and options acitivating I have a GPIB adapter in the mail but I could try this floppy dump tool now. Just one question: since I have an A-version would the tool work with it? I will get new replacements from ebay, not original but better.

[fichamba]

Hi everybody, and flyte specially.

I am trying to do a FDD dump of the NVRAM and nothing happens...silly me, maybe. I formatted a FDD in the scope itself (TDS 784A), in FAT, as requested. Then, I extracted all files from the zip archive and copied inside this FDD via LaCie external FDD and a PC (I copied everything but the README file). I started the scope, tried to do it without and with toggling the protection SW off...and nothing. The scope starts as ever (after ages, BTW, in spite all the DIP switches are in the OFF position). All tests are OK. But I am afraid of losing data.

If I go to file utils, I will be able to see all the FDD contents, but I can't execute anything (I will put a pic here).

Help!. Am doing something wrong, for sure. Could somebody be of any help for me?. TIA!!!!!

EDIT: Sorry...INFO is also copied.. 

[TERRA Operative]

Try putting the actual single utility you want to use one at a time on the disk, directly in the root directory (i.e. not in a folder).

Also, if you have an older firmware on your scope, you might have to update it. I found this to be the case with my TDS784C.

Let us know if it works, it might provide the answer to Pete2.

[fichamba]

Hello my friend, and again, thanks a lot!. I’ve done it (first thing was put the contents of the folder to do a full dump), and it didn’t worked.

Maybe I need to update the FW. I’ll prefer to do it over an empty EPROM (JIC…). I didn’t look at the type and model of EPROM, but I remember I have one of these programmers (I understand that the latest FW is available in TekWiki).

Anyway, I’ll keep you well informed.

Thank you!!

[fichamba]

Hello again,

I am having problems trying to dump the cal data in a FDD. I am very sure that, as TERRA Operative told, this is related to the scope's FW. The scope is a Tek TDS784A, and I have a FW version 4.1e. I readed here in the forum that somebody has a newer version of the FW for this scope, but I am not able to find it out over the internet. Could somebody post a link to download it?. And if so, (specially for TERRA Operative): do you think it will be a bin file which I can "burn" over an empty UV erasable EPROM (in order to preserve the actual one)?.

Also, I did not have a GPIB to USB converter. I think it will be a good idea to order one (it comes from China, and it takes a long time to arrive here to Spain). Does somebody of you have a favourite one: NI, Agilent...or all of them works fine?.

Thanks a zillion in advance for you invaluable help.

[Tantratron]

Ola Fichamba,

The issue which you describe could be related eventually to these 2 topics

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/tek-tds-744a784a-fws-nvlibrariansdiag-libs-with-crcc-failures-extconst/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/conversion-of-500mhz-tds744a-to-1ghz-tds784a/msg4859078/#msg4859078

Regarding the GPIB-USB interface, my own experience to repair TDSxxx's prefers NI product made in Europe to avoid issues. If you like, my company has few spare to sell from France, these are legit made in Hungary so will not suffer from chinese copy-cat detected then blocked by NI driver.

Buenas tardes, Albert

[TERRA Operative]

Hello again,

I am having problems trying to dump the cal data in a FDD. I am very sure that, as TERRA Operative told, this is related to the scope's FW. The scope is a Tek TDS784A, and I have a FW version 4.1e. I readed here in the forum that somebody has a newer version of the FW for this scope, but I am not able to find it out over the internet. Could somebody post a link to download it?. And if so, (specially for TERRA Operative): do you think it will be a bin file which I can "burn" over an empty UV erasable EPROM (in order to preserve the actual one)?.

Also, I did not have a GPIB to USB converter. I think it will be a good idea to order one (it comes from China, and it takes a long time to arrive here to Spain). Does somebody of you have a favourite one: NI, Agilent...or all of them works fine?.

Thanks a zillion in advance for you invaluable help.

Unfortunately I don't have a copy of any of the TDS784A firmware versions (but if you extract your firmware and NVRAM, please send it to me and I'll add it to the Tekwiki! )
There is an amount of cross compatibility between scope models, so you might be able to say use v4.2.1e firmware for the TDS744A and it might work.
If you copy out your existing firmware first, you can always try... If it doesn't work, you can just copy the original firmware back in again and the scope will work again just fine.
If you do the experiment, let me know so I can update my notes and the tekwiki.

The UV EPROM (I believe) is just the boot ROM or similar and not the actual firmware. The firmware is in the Dallas NVRAM chips (the bigger black box(es) ) and is downloaded and updated etc via GPIB.
There is a utility and instructions here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/unified-tektool-released-!-(firmware-flash-tools-for-old-tds-series)/msg3758918/#msg3758918

Alternatively, if you are replacing the NVRAM's with replacements (old backup batteries are ooollddd) you could just directly copy out the entire contents of the chips with a chip programmer and copy back into the new NVRAM's.


As for USB to GPIB adapters, I use an ebay sourced Agilent 82357B and install the Keysight iolibsuite as described in the link above and it 'just works'.

[fichamba]

Thanks a lot for your help and comments. I was ill. Now I am good, but...HEEELP! HEEEELP!!!!.

It seems that I have erased the data inside the Dallas Watchdog timer chip. I wanted to try my dexterity with the Dremel, and everything went well. I found a couple of 3V batteries inside (one of them with 2.9V, and the another with 2.7V...no need to change, but...lithium, ya know...suddenly zero...or very close to). The thing is I am sure I did not damage any internal part. But I am sure that I disconnect one of the batteries with the Dremel (the negative pin) before applying new battery (a 2,300 mA one...). The secondary battery was fine, untouched and connected (I mean here the one which is deeper, the one which is mounted farther from the pin #1).

I socketed the 3 main ICs (EPROM and the two Dallas chips). I have do it so to buy a programmer and extract its contents, specially for TERRA Operative (he told me so). I tested the scope with the new sockets and it worked as ever. Perfect, no problems at all. BUT when I make the change of batteries in the Dallas DS1486-120 chip, connected to the socket in the scope, and turned it on...everything seems fine (video tests on screen, relay clicks, etc.), the scope is stuck in the clock!!!. I am not able to boot it up again!!!    and I cutted the negative from the second battery once I connected the new one (see pic).

So...what can I do?. Of course, it seems to be very clear that my problem is in the above mentioned Dallas chip (I thought it has no data inside, only realtime clock), but obviously it had data.

BTW, please tell me what programmer I can buy to work with these chips, and also to extract the data from the EPROM, and the program to work with it (maybe the programmer comes with one).

Please, I need your help. I know that I will have it.

Here are some pics of the results. I needed to connect both positive terminals of both batteries, because connecting the new one to the one closest to pin #1 does not make that the second battery inside the Dallas to have voltage (maybe a diode between the two?...if so, I did not use a diode...hope this will help).

Thank you all.

[TERRA Operative]

The common TL866II chip programmer made by XGecu, or their latest version thereof, will read and write these chips. It is a well priced bit of gear that works on a huge number of chips so is good to keep in the tool kit.
It also has a lot of community support here on EEVBlog forums and elsewhere on the internet, so if you have troubles, someone is likely to be able to help.
I have one and it works well. I just programmed a new replacement DS1245Y NVRAM last night (you can get this part number new from Digikey etc) that I read out from the old chip for a TDS540 I am currently restoring.

The two batteries are connected to a management chip such that (I believe....) it will use one battery until it is depleted and then switch to the other battery, maybe with some charge balancing logic too maybe.
If you cut the trace to the good battery and left the flat battery connected, you may have lost your data...

One of those two NVRAM chips stores user waveform data etc so no big deal if it's lost, but the watchdog chip is where the firmware is stored IIRC. Empty chip = no boot...

However, many of these scopes share the same firmware across models, with the specific model defined by the placement of a few resistors on the acquisition board (The big one on the bottom of the scope).
So, you could very well be able to revive your scope by installing some firmware from a similar scope of a similar revision.

I would try using a firmware image with the same major revision number (i.e. your firmware is v4.1e, so stick with v4.xxxxx firmwares) from another TDS700 series scope and see what happens, just try one firmware after another until the scope boots and works ok.
The v4.2.1e firmware from the TDS744A is a good bet.
Using the wrong firmware won't damage the scope, it just won't boot properly or it will throw a bunch of errors, in that case just pull the NVRAM out and reprogram with another firmware until you have joy.

[fichamba]

Thanks a lot, my friend. So, is it not a problem to flash the watchdog timer of one scope model with the .bin file of another one of the same series (the 744 in this particular case)?. I need to do it extracting the watchdog timer from its socket and using the recommended programmer, not via GPIB. Moreover, I saw Digikey has enough ICs to replace the Dallas DS1486-120 (the one you mention in previous post, 12xx, I can't remember). It costs about US$ 32 or so, just in case.

My first need is to put the scope back in service again. But in spite I saw the DIP switches all in the OFF position (including the one for selftest during startup), it taked a loooong time to startup. Maybe there's a logic IC after the DIP which is not working correctly, and it didn't change the seltest to OFF, even if the DIP switch is OFF. But this is another story. I really need the scope working, even as before 

Cheers!

[TERRA Operative]

Yep, go wild with trying different firmwares (under the guidelines I said re. versions) until one works.
With a programmer is much faster and easier than via GPIB (assuming your NVRAM is now socketed)

Once it's actually booting properly, then worry about and chase the other issues.

[fichamba]

Hello again:

The zip file in TekWiki (4.2.1e) has 1 bin file inside (only one; maybe it is for the Dallas DS1650Y-100). The one I need is for the watchdog timer (Dallas DS1486-120). The FW version of my TDS784A is 4.1e. The options are 13 1F 1M and 2F. Does somebody has something in .bin for this watchdog chip, or must I checkit -as TERRA Operative say- with several versions of the 744 until one works?.

Thanks again for your help.

[TERRA Operative]

You probably need the other .bin file, commonly called the NVRAM file.

The only A model scope I have is a TDS644A, but try this one from my TDS714L.


You can enable and disable options later via GPIB once it's all booting ok.

[Tantratron]

You probably need the other .bin file, commonly called the NVRAM file.

The only A model scope I have is a TDS644A, but try this one from my TDS714L.

You can enable and disable options later via GPIB once it's all booting ok.

Unless I'm wrong, there is no way a NVRAM's donated from a TDS714L could work on TDS784A or any A serie.

By the way, TDS714L is in fact TDS754D with removed HW and SW options which can be hacked.

[fichamba]

Well…almost this file has the right size (1Mb), which is the max size of the watchdog chip.

[TERRA Operative]

714L is all I have, the rest are all C or D. Unfortunately I haven't had an A series TDS700 scope on my bench yet, so you'll have to put the call out.....
Hopefully someone else can rip a couple bin files.

[Tantratron]

Hello fichamba (Jesus), as mentioned somewhere else in this forum, since december 2019 I happen to have repaired, hacked or upgraded nine TDSxxx/C/D plus I did purchase on eBay 6 months ago for interest one TDS510A which runs. From my research, the TDS510A is special beast with logic board compatible with any TDS7x4A but it uses old style acquisition board. The difference with TDS754A, TDS744A or TDS784A is based on its acquisition board similar to C serie acquisition board.

Unless I'm wrong, it could be possible to run your TDS744A with a healthy TDS510A processor board (logic board). What is interesting from synchronicity, check my TDS510A attached pictures where my DS1486 has same time stamp, my DS1650Y different time stamp than yours but looking on year of production, PCB time stamp making, it is the same. The only difference being that it runs with Firmware V1.0e whereas yours V4.1e so one approach would be to reverse your firmware then upgrade later to 4.2e

I kindly recommend that you start a new thread or topic for your problem, after all your problem is not really related to floppy back up but the fact you have no access to any valid NVRAM's content. I intuit more options could be done to save your TDS744A where the key point is how to match your acquisition board.

Albert

[fichamba]

For TERRA Operative:
Thank you. In Spain we have a sentence: “The one who gives what he/she has, is not obliged to give more”. That’s exactly what you’re doing.

For Tartratron (Albert):
My friend, you are right. I need to open a new thread around this subject. And, BTW…both processor boards looks exactly the same!! With three empty IC places, the rest is identical!. Even the position of the Dallas chips respecting the EPROM! (in “series”, not parallel, as I saw in all boards I normally see). And mine uses also FW 4.1e.

The Batronix programmer will arrive -this time for sure- next Monday. I need “meat” for it!.

Thank you again!

Jesus

[fichamba]

At last, my TDS784A is alive and kickin' again!. I’ve installed today the new chips from Texas (thanks, David!).

And thanks to all of you who supported my desperation.

Jesus

[Melcher]

Hi everyone,
First of all let me thank to flyte a lot for this script  I am a happy owner of TDS754D FV:v6.2.1e.
So I used scope formatted floppy with tdsNvramFloppyDumper to back up the calibration constants. All went well, so next I ran the checksum verifier tool to be sure it is correct.
But the result is not what I was expecting. Do any of you have a scope with this FV to confirm if it is just misinterpreted by checksum verifier or if the data are actually corrupted?
Attached is dump of the NVRAM and also checksum verifier result.
Thanks a lot for any idea.