Test Equipment and the whole game

[rsjsouza]

No I got it, and I completely agree. It your bread and butter so you would only take up their business if you are protected. Thats fair enough.

But look at how flawed this model and what the casualty is. Inflated prices, no competition and also not all distributors are the same so quality of service is also suspect.
It defeats the very purpose it was supposed to fulfill.

Judged by who's metric ?

Why would you imagine any manufacturer can offer worldwide sales and timely support from a single base ?

I agree the model is not free of problems, but this is one of the good reasons why local distribution exists.

In my experience, dealing with local regulations and laws across the world is a very thorough process that will cost someone's time. 

Regarding technical support: depending on the product itself, technical and design support are costly for the manufacturer and the distribution/rep network can help filter out the important questions and customers that will get most of the engineering time. This becomes particularly important in case the customer is strategic for the region, not worldwide.

The manufacturers could potentially try to leverage the various fora on the internet and I agree this is still a bit hit or miss (mostly miss), but the effectiveness and traceability in revenue is very difficult to track.

Anyways, good discussion.

[Analog4]

Capitalism: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalism.asp

The price depends on what people are willing to pay. Often the profitable products help pay for the unprofitable products.

When the company or distributor are Not profitable enough to sustain the business, they disappear or get swallowed by a larger entity.

Obviously, Mouser, Digikey & Newark seem to have a sustainable business model.

There are other ways to operate, such as Socialist Market Economy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_market_economy

[noobiedoobie]

Judged by who's metric ?

Why would you imagine any manufacturer can offer worldwide sales and timely support from a single base ?

Anyways you're not seeing the full picture as some manufacturer's appointed resellers aren't bound by territorial agreements like some in USA and EU.
If it's all about lowest purchase cost there are often other options however the buyer need balance this against any need for local warranty or technical support.
Everyone wants a free lunch.............

There is no metric thats why the support from distributors is so terrible.
I didn't say they have to have a single base, they can also open a few small branches for a large country for service and support only or they can always outsource it and it works out to be lot cheaper atleast the support part.
Anyway, there are two kinds of customers for test gear - the hobbyist/freelancer/independent researcher and then the institutional buyer.
The first kind, distributors treat them like shit anyways and they are the voiceless who just just have to shell out money and pretend to like it. The second kind rarely need technical support and even if they do they will such questions that is beyond any distributors competence to answer so it will finally be routed to the technical person at the company.

[tautech]

Judged by who's metric ?

Why would you imagine any manufacturer can offer worldwide sales and timely support from a single base ?

Anyways you're not seeing the full picture as some manufacturer's appointed resellers aren't bound by territorial agreements like some in USA and EU.
If it's all about lowest purchase cost there are often other options however the buyer need balance this against any need for local warranty or technical support.
Everyone wants a free lunch.............

There is no metric thats why the support from distributors is so terrible.
I didn't say they have to have a single base, they can also open a few small branches for a large country for service and support only or they can always outsource it and it works out to be lot cheaper atleast the support part.
Anyway, there are two kinds of customers for test gear - the hobbyist/freelancer/independent researcher and then the institutional buyer.
The first kind, distributors treat them like shit anyways and they are the voiceless who just just have to shell out money and pretend to like it. The second kind rarely need technical support and even if they do they will such questions that is beyond any distributors competence to answer so it will finally be routed to the technical person at the company.

 
Really you have little idea of my industry do you.

[james_s]

(and it seems Fluke can't even improve their existing products because the institutions don't want it - they'll be making the 87V forever!)

There's no reason to. They already "improved" the 87-III and ruined it by making the 87V default to AC every single time for all of the current measurements, completely obnoxious, I had one briefly and went back to the III. If people are still buying it though why change? There are lots of other companies that sell more cutting edge stuff. Fluke sells what their customers buy.

[Sigurd]

I used to think a bit like OP , but now I realise that Test Equipment is a crappy business to be in and the only customers that matter in the vast majority of countries are educational and government buyers. Hobbyists are a rounding error and take up too much time with begging and questions. All the while your investors/beancounters are looking at the returns software companies make.

The big TE companies spend a very large amount of money and effort on research and then the Chinese companies come and eat their lunch, especially at the low end. If you are in Europe, it's your own laws that are the fault most of the time - what a nightmare selling any electronics in that market(s).

I don't understand the distributor hate at all, yeah they charge a markup - as they do in every industry. TE is a forgotten backroom for the Mousers and Digikeys of the world, a favour of convenience to customers.

[Analog4]

.....The big TE companies spend a very large amount of money and effort on research and then the Chinese companies come and eat their lunch, especially at the low end........

Yes, same happens in semiconductors. First with Japan, then Taiwan, Korea, Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam & China. The manufacturing gets off-shored to the cheapest labor. Eventually manufacturing gets optimized and as capacity increases remote competitors get created in those cheap locations (with low R&D costs). In some of those countries, intellectual property is not considered as sacred is in the USA. As some of those countries are successful, local economy improves labor cost go up and the competition becomes more balanced.

Test & Measurement is a very weak market for large semiconductor suppliers also. The volume is too low & many of the T/E special products don’t have big volume elsewhere, such as the military. State of the art ADCs get expensive due to low volume, special packages and expensive testing. If the T/E volumes were several orders of magnitude higher, the prices would come down. A lot of large semiconductor manufacturer management is not impressed with the T/E market sales dollars, so the per unit cost is made high.

[EEVblog]

4. So where does this leave us? Amazon is still waking up to selling such gear and few are others are trying...

Amazon do not sell test gear, those amazon stores belong to either dealers or the manufacturers directly.

[rsjsouza]

4. So where does this leave us? Amazon is still waking up to selling such gear and few are others are trying...

Amazon do not sell test gear, those amazon stores belong to either dealers or the manufacturers directly.

Well, to be perfectly accurate, they have their Amazon Commercial line of DMMs, but it stops there.

[noobiedoobie]

Amazon do not sell test gear, those amazon stores belong to either dealers or the manufacturers directly.

No they do, atleast in the US. They are a authorised distributor for Siglent.

Please see attached pics, see the seller. Also there are other distributors who quote a higher price (as expected)


Edit: Turns out Amazon in an authorised distributor.

[joeB]

I'm in the process of upgrading some of my older TE and noticed the Siglent equipment being sold by Amazon. However, I do not see them listed as an authorized distributor on the Siglentna web site. How did you determine they are an authorized distributor ?

[rsjsouza]

Amazon do not sell test gear, those amazon stores belong to either dealers or the manufacturers directly.

No they do, atleast in the US. They are a authorised distributor for Siglent.

Please see attached pics, see the seller. Also there are other distributors who quote a higher price (as expected)

Don't be fooled by the name and the shiny "online" store on Amazon. As joeB mentioned, if it is not listed in their list below, it is not an authorized disty:

https://siglentna.com/how-to-buy/

I've seen this happen with other brands as well on Amazon and apparently they don't scrutinize this.

[noobiedoobie]

 
Really you have little idea of my industry do you.

So you wish

[Michael YYZ]

And what country would that be, if I may ask please?

I bought components from Digi-Key and looked them up on Mouser and, at least in my country, they are comparable or even cheaper to those from the local distributor(s).

3. I don't know why companies like RS, Digikey, Mouser etc exist. Seriously everytime I see their price I get a feeling that they think the world never recovered from the world wars and there is a global components/equipment shortage. Atleast this the case in my country. I ask this because I see a lot of people here using there companies and almost (just almost) everything they sell is available in the local market for a lot less. Oh! and I searched for a SA there and whom am I kidding Prices are transparently 30%-60% more than company quotes.

[noobiedoobie]

Till now I have found only Batronix to be less than or equal to the local distributors. Most often its lesser.

[bd139]

Amazon do not sell test gear, those amazon stores belong to either dealers or the manufacturers directly.

No they do, atleast in the US. They are a authorised distributor for Siglent.

Please see attached pics, see the seller. Also there are other distributors who quote a higher price (as expected)

Just to point out that you will only find out if they’re an authorised resellers or not when the item breaks and you try and make a warranty claim.

I know a couple of people who have been told to sod off in that circumstance when Amazon tells them to talk to the manufacturer.

[noobiedoobie]

True. I have edited my answer

[nctnico]

Amazon do not sell test gear, those amazon stores belong to either dealers or the manufacturers directly.

No they do, atleast in the US. They are a authorised distributor for Siglent.

Please see attached pics, see the seller. Also there are other distributors who quote a higher price (as expected)

Don't be fooled by the name and the shiny "online" store on Amazon. As joeB mentioned, if it is not listed in their list below, it is not an authorized disty:

Who cares. As long as the service doesn't suck. There are lots of distributors which aren't listed as resellers. Amazon is likely easier to deal with in terms of returns compared to a one-man-band moving some boxes around.

[Fungus]

I bought components from Digi-Key and looked them up on Mouser and, at least in my country, they are comparable or even cheaper to those from the local distributor(s).

Around here I have to pay 15 Euros minimum shipping. I have to buy 100 Euros of anything to make it worth buying from them.

(which I almost never do...)

[Fungus]

The price depends on what people are willing to pay.

USA customers of the Fluke 87V get TL75 leads in the box.

European customers get nice TL175s.

[rsjsouza]

Amazon do not sell test gear, those amazon stores belong to either dealers or the manufacturers directly.

No they do, atleast in the US. They are a authorised distributor for Siglent.

Please see attached pics, see the seller. Also there are other distributors who quote a higher price (as expected)

Don't be fooled by the name and the shiny "online" store on Amazon. As joeB mentioned, if it is not listed in their list below, it is not an authorized disty:

Who cares. As long as the service doesn't suck. There are lots of distributors which aren't listed as resellers. Amazon is likely easier to deal with in terms of returns compared to a one-man-band moving some boxes around.

They are really not, Nico. Sure, the immediate return/cancellation due to a defective unit is probably beautifully handled by Amazon but, as bd139 mentioned, if you need assistance during the warranty period Amazon will tell you to contact the manufacturer and you will be shafted. 

[Michael YYZ]

CA $8 for purchase total less than $100. Buy local if you think the shipping cost is a deal breaker for you.

I bought components from Digi-Key and looked them up on Mouser and, at least in my country, they are comparable or even cheaper to those from the local distributor(s).

Around here I have to pay 15 Euros minimum shipping. I have to buy 100 Euros of anything to make it worth buying from them.

(which I almost never do...)

[nctnico]

Amazon do not sell test gear, those amazon stores belong to either dealers or the manufacturers directly.

No they do, atleast in the US. They are a authorised distributor for Siglent.

Please see attached pics, see the seller. Also there are other distributors who quote a higher price (as expected)

Don't be fooled by the name and the shiny "online" store on Amazon. As joeB mentioned, if it is not listed in their list below, it is not an authorized disty:

Who cares. As long as the service doesn't suck. There are lots of distributors which aren't listed as resellers. Amazon is likely easier to deal with in terms of returns compared to a one-man-band moving some boxes around.

They are really not, Nico. Sure, the immediate return/cancellation due to a defective unit is probably beautifully handled by Amazon but, as bd139 mentioned, if you need assistance during the warranty period Amazon will tell you to contact the manufacturer and you will be shafted.

In the US probably but not in the EU! Apple and Dell got some hefty fines for poor warranty practises (hundreds of millions IIRC). The Dutch version of Amazon's website clearly states a 2 year warranty period.

[tautech]

I'm in the process of upgrading some of my older TE and noticed the Siglent equipment being sold by Amazon. However, I do not see them listed as an authorized distributor on the Siglentna web site. How did you determine they are an authorized distributor ?

Only by the name of the Amazon store.

Dave is quite correct on this one, Siglent NA do indeed have an Amazon store that was opened a few years ago by the now retired GM.
Right before your post this screenshot shows the official Siglent NA Amazon store:

[nctnico]

It says 'shipped by Amazon' and 'sold by Amazon'. If it is shipped/sold by a third party then the Amazon listing will show that.