Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 14971420 times)

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Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125200 on: July 04, 2022, 07:59:13 pm »
<snip>

On cars there are diminishing returns on fuel cost and repairs. You end up paying more keeping something which is why I got rid of that fucking awful Fiat and will be getting rid of my Citroen soon.

Edit: rise in fuel prices = inefficiency liability.
This might make you rethink that strategy




Looks like we are subscribed to the same channel !  :-DD

Yes, silly eh ? Americans are now realizing what people in Europe figured out 20 years ago... out of necessity.
My Safrane will remain with me as long as it makes financial sense compared to a newer car. Newer cars being what they are, this mean my best interest is to pamper my old Safrane so it treats me well for many years to come. Whatever comes next, forced by laws sadly, is only going to be a money pit, disappointment  and frustration, and anger, and cursing. So I try to delay this disaster to as far away as possible.

 

Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125201 on: July 04, 2022, 08:04:23 pm »
WELCOME TO 5000!           

...
I think this is probably a good point to call it a night. ;)   mnem    :-BROKE   

Hi Dwagon,   Did you see my posts
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4275517/#msg4275517
and
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4275556/#msg4275556

Looks like same video scheme as the 892x series a Gondbes 8220 video converter would be my next stop.

Yup, sure did; and followed that rabbit-hole down to that LCD mod. Very tidy! :-+

Problem is that the models we have tech ref on... the ones we've been talking about... are all proper non-greyscale monochrome monitors. Also, this family of monitors are all "1000 line" resolution (IIRC, I read that they "use" ~960 lines), so not too sanguine aboot dropping down to 800x600 resolution.  :-//

There's a CDM-7SX191 monitor on eBay right now for $80... I've been meaning to get into one of these Chinesium video scan converters as a diag tool for a while, so that might still happen... but I think that if I were going to fix this scope, I'd prolly bite the bullet and buy that monitor.

This of course is all dependent on how my dispute resolves out.  ;) I wanted to spend a little time tinkering just to see if there were signs of life; I was hoping it might be easy to mod the CDM-7SF191 I have in that 54600A so it thinks it's a CDM-7SX191.

I may instead try remoting into it over the RS-232 instead... in which case I'll soon be hunting down that software you posted and firing up the old WinXP Toughbook.  >:D

mnem
 :blah:

More CRT types needed.

54600A Pixel_data and Marker_dots are already 32 levels internally, but only 2nd and 4th of Pixel_data are used externally.
So taking out all five is pretty simple but the situation should also be very clearly visible in the monitor.
Old Intensity reference pot can grant its pins.

54600A Pixel_data goes through U37 74LS194 and then HB goes to U30 74ALS08, FB does the same but first ORing Marker_dots in U31 74F32, so either will do a final FB.
All gates are used so extra chip must be added, no idea when the device is designed but 5 TTL monitor pins feels a bit too much.

nixiefreqq's neck board has 1 FET and 3 BJTs, I'd say that 5 TTL pins are not there.

Since 74S03 is the earlier model my guess is that later monitors became better and external data level reference was not needed anymore.
So comparing two datalines will tell how the situation is.

Testing with an extra *old* computer monitor should also be pretty easy, if one is available.
One gate chip is needed, old display modes were selected by swapping sync polarities.
Using only green as data is also fine.

Functional monitor is not needed if vertical line movement is possible, since its color value is different it should be very visible.
Maybe duplicating buttons of two side by side machines can do settings.

Resolution
255 V x 500 H 54600B
256 V x 500 H 54615B

54620-series
255 vertical by 1000 horizontal points (waveform area)
32 levels of gray scale

Is it really 1000 pixels?
Vertical is the same as before so monitor is probably also pretty same as before.
I tried to find some tube info but everything was too old.
So no real idea of physical resolution of those 7" mono tubes.
But it can be checked, just compare those old and new 546xx horizontal lines, 1000 res has half the pixel length.
If shorter pixel length is there then different CRT must be also present, if that is the key.

It is entirely possible I misremembered the line count on this monitor and conflated the numbers with those above. We know that the 54645A is using a PAL combi chip, so up to 625 lines (I can't remember if that's interlaced or not) to play with; so yeah, I can see those numbers being legit.

54645A and 54600A both use the same DataRay CDM-7SF191 part number. I've attached some pics. The main and CRT PCBs appear identical, even though the older CDM-7SF191 in my 54600A uses a Panasonic M18JCB34GH CRT vs the Toshiba E9054B31-CDHT CRT in my 54645A. That Toshiba CRT, however, is the same as the in the 54621D, so the CRTs in all 3 models must be interchangeable?

I'm thinking now that my original surmise is correct... provided nothing wrong with the mainboard, we should be able to get something useful on the screen with the 54621D and the CDM-7SF191 from my 54600A. Just need to see how they're modulating the brightness to get those greyscales. I guess my next step will be a breakout PCB.  ;D

For now, tho, I've had to put it away; wifey has requested I look at the AC in our old Saturn.

mnem
 :-/O

Yes, CRTs are definitely interchangeable.

So monitor hack, shouldn't be overly difficult.

Old Hitachi/Matsushita schematics is too old and something seems to be missing but those two neck boards are very same.
Older neck board uses 74S03 as parallel inverters powering contrast trimmer directly and newer one seems to be different only from there.
Oldest has no neck board but contrast pot connection is pretty exactly same as 74S03 version of neck board.

Are all those 54620-series machines already closed.
More revealing solder side picture of neck board would be nice.

Completely forgot 54645A/D, its resolution was clear.
313 V x 512 H (pixels)

That's clearly PAL, but proportional and lowres.
Is there visible space between H-lines?
Back in the day CGA was clearly using only every other line of available physical pixels.
From pictures online there could be something missing but it is not much, dimming can reveal something but it doesn't change anything.
Full hires for PAL is 31250Hz H-sync, 31500Hz for NTSC.
Old Hitachi/Matsushita schematics has 24270Hz as H-sync and 60Hz as V-sync so 404 lines possible.

PAL and NTSC were also defined as 720 pixels wide, but no idea how much was physically available, not much more I guess.
One thing I remember though, very small pictures were exceptionally sharp.
So more than 500 was a norm already back then but no idea what was the major barrier, screen material or cathode ray energy.
FET in newer neck board indicates that rising time had a role.

From online pictures I'd say that 54600B grid is 100x60 pixels, vertical center line is around 128.
Vertical 256 must be a grid area, horizontal 500 seems to be all.
54622D pictures were pretty bad but horizontal pixel count seems to be more than those 54600Bs.

How this all then should be converted to VGA or SVGA.
Anti-aliasing is difficult when contrast is high and lines narrow.

One other thing, PAL pixel is not round, for that it needs a 5:4 screen, but that is for 576 visible scanlines.
Very nice, and clear.
What is the shape of the screen here?
Online pictures are pretty hopeless.

PAL and NTSC don't have pixels, only lines. Horizontal resolution is only limited by bandwidth.

What is your point?
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Triplett-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125202 on: July 04, 2022, 08:05:23 pm »
<snip>

On cars there are diminishing returns on fuel cost and repairs. You end up paying more keeping something which is why I got rid of that fucking awful Fiat and will be getting rid of my Citroen soon.

Edit: rise in fuel prices = inefficiency liability.
This might make you rethink that strategy



LOL no. 19-23 mpg. In no way that makes sense. Even in America.
No, I wouldn't either, but the points he raises are what I was hinting at. If you have a car that is running well, reasonably cost-effective to run and has no major body / rust / mechanical issues, then why the hell risk junking that for something like he says that is really designed with the good for 70,000 miles ethos and then scrap it for another plastic car etc, which is not good for the planet either.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125203 on: July 04, 2022, 08:05:33 pm »
<SNIP>
It's not a luxury in 2022. It's one of the main interaction points of society and an expectation.

I'd rather have a newer phone (under 4 years old iPhone) than a better car if I had the choice.
Well how can I put this delicately, you claimed many times here in this thread that you're a cheapskate, well that would seem from the above that you're a cheapskate by choice when it suits you. For many people, they don't have that choice, they are cheapskates through necessity, so a newer phone is a luxury for them.

Many need a car and also need that car to be reliable if they live in the sticks, whereas you are living in perhaps the best city in the UK for public transport options and best fares, so you could, as you have said before, manage without a car at all. That is far from being a reality across most of the UK, where public transport is not seen as a public service, but a profit generator for the wealthy owners. If a service is not being profitable, it suffers a drastically reduced service, even down to sometimes a single service a day or even weekly with the local authority subsidizing it.

That situation was bad enough for some really rural areas when it was the National Bus Company, like it was when I worked on the buses, but since deregulation and subsequent privatisation, the only thing that matters is pure profit and that really was the time when it became far cheaper for most people, especially those with families, even those in large towns, to convert to becoming car owners.

With the UK's track record for deregulation and then eventual privatisation, that even gave a massive boost to mobile phone uptake as when they sold off the British Telecom, it was the death for loads of public boxes (something I remember only too well) I used to have to phone in to H/O at times during the working day while out on the road to reply to pager messages. That caused the company to drop pagers and go with car phones, so we could be conducted directly by either H/O or customers because it was not always possible to find either a phone box that worked or one that didn't already have a massive queue of other sales reps / customer service engineers all waiting to use it to respond to their pages, all while keeping a beady eye open for the dreaded yellow jackets (traffic wardens) or the Police who would regularly move us on because we were causing obstruction to the flow of traffic. :palm:

If you didn't work in an industry where that was the normal practise, then you really have zero idea just how fraught those times were.

If companies also perceive that Android is a serious threat to their security, then let them issue iPhones / Blackberries to their staff. I have never known a company that actually expected their staff to provide a mobile phone, it was always a company asset and had to be handed back upon leaving their employment and strictly NO private calls were allowed.

I respect people who are up front with me.

It's probably a good idea that I clean up these perceptions here and my attitude.

There is one important aggregate facet of life that people seem to always to completely ignore and that is security. I'm not talking about wielding guns against hypothetical assailants, like some members of the TEA fraternity, the odd armed chav or filling your house up with tins of beans for when the nuclear mutant zombies attack. No I'm talking about being aware of what can change for you and having a plan ready to roll against it. That means actually understanding changes that might occur.

To do that your skills, knowledge and tools need to adapt to societal and employment risks and you need to make sure that they are tested regularly and that you understand what the risks are. That requires research and planning.

With respect to the smartphone, it doesn't matter who you are or what you do, it is absolutely the most important tool of this century. You are expected by society to actually be able to communicate freely and using tools which are prescribed to you, not the other way round. This isn't about having a company phone, it's about being literally ready to jump on the next opportunity that comes along before there's a queue. And that's your responsibility and can't be abstracted to someone else or shrugged off. Also it's not just a phone for making calls on; it's a pocket computer that allows you to leverage even more opportunities and a lot of the time both other people and the government expect you to meet them half way.

The cheapskate comes from the compromise between balancing security and budgetary concerns. At one end of the scale there is negligence and lack of preparation that is now affecting Vince (sorry Vince but you shot yourself). This costs you opportunities and incurs incidental costs which may be out of budget. On the other hand there is overspending which means trading any financial security you have for high risk assets (buying nice cars when you have £20 in the bank) which causes large incidental losses.

Right in the middle is making sure you have a minimum spec competent tools. I specified earlier a reasonable refurb iPhone 7 as an example which is fine for this case. It's cheap, still supported by Apple, spares and reliable service are available.

As for most of the people you refer to above in the privatisation comments, they did not even think for two seconds that their situation was possibly even a risk, nor did they prepare for it in any way when they had the opportunity to do so. Most people are completely fungible as well which is a massive security risk. Having been stuck in some shitty backwards towns for most of the 90s I was well aware of the risks of staying there and my employment, upskilled and took opportunities and got out of it. The risk now is that the globalised transport fuel supply chain is knackering those who chose to stay, and yes it was a choice. But of course everyone is sitting there being fed the shit about rising prices everywhere, sitting in their own mire and doing sweet fuck all about it.

Case in point, when I was sitting there at the bus stop with my 10 minute reliable metro service earlier, I took this. Owning a car is a risk. Doing a job that requires owning a car is a risk. Living somewhere that requires a car is a risk. I saw this 12 years ago when I moved here. I only own a car because it is a luxury but that's rapidly becoming a liability.



I hate looking at America which is entirely built on energy usage. That's going to go to shit very vey quickly when it does go.

YMMV but consider security/risk first. The real cheapskate can see the horizon, knows what is going to cost them everything in the long run and doesn't care about the best priced bananas in the supermarket or the 70€ android because they are insignificant really. The cheapskate is only scared of unexpected expenses, uncalculated risks and unreliable technology.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 08:07:06 pm by bd139 »
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125204 on: July 04, 2022, 08:10:49 pm »
Happy COLONIAL REVOLT DAY everybody!!!   :-DD

And a Happy Treasonous Traitor's Sedition Day to you too. :-DD

Oh go piss up a rope.  :-DD

Why is my tail suddenly all wet....?   :o


mnem
*grrrrrrrr...* med, that's not a rope...
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 08:16:10 pm by mnementh »
alt-codes work here:  alt-0128 = €  alt-156 = £  alt-0216 = Ø  alt-225 = ß  alt-230 = µ  alt-234 = Ω  alt-236 = ∞  alt-248 = °
 
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Offline Peter_O

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125205 on: July 04, 2022, 08:13:01 pm »
Sometime it's the basics.
After 9 years of heavy use the first switches in my remote switch box of 2x8 multiple sockets started sparking badly, despite rated for 16 Amps.

Fortunately they were still avalable and the connectors are spade plugs.
Good for the next 9 years.



Holy crap. That far exceeds the maximum number of interconnected wires per box as per the USA electrical code. That would never get UL or Canadian CSA approval here.
For a regular wall box that might be a problem with 16A per life wire. This box is limited to 16A in total. And the picture shows that all wires and wagos are like new after 9 years of use. And: When leaving home this box is always switched off completely. But as always: Don't copy that a thingy at home.  :D
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125206 on: July 04, 2022, 08:14:37 pm »
<snip>

On cars there are diminishing returns on fuel cost and repairs. You end up paying more keeping something which is why I got rid of that fucking awful Fiat and will be getting rid of my Citroen soon.

Edit: rise in fuel prices = inefficiency liability.
This might make you rethink that strategy




Looks like we are subscribed to the same channel !  :-DD

Yes, silly eh ? Americans are now realizing what people in Europe figured out 20 years ago... out of necessity.
My Safrane will remain with me as long as it makes financial sense compared to a newer car. Newer cars being what they are, this mean my best interest is to pamper my old Safrane so it treats me well for many years to come. Whatever comes next, forced by laws sadly, is only going to be a money pit, disappointment  and frustration, and anger, and cursing. So I try to delay this disaster to as far away as possible.


Totally agree on that, I intend on doing the same with my car, although it is 9 years old, I have been the sole driver and keeper of the car for all its life and now its owner for the last 6 years, so I know all of its history, and it has never put a foot wrong apart from the time when its alternator belt failed due to a duff tensioner. It breezes through its annual MOT safety test with only small advisories, which I get done PDQ. The last time it needed 2 new tyres due to cuts in the tread, but that would have applied equally to a new car as the culprit is the state of the UK roads.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125207 on: July 04, 2022, 08:17:29 pm »
<snip>

On cars there are diminishing returns on fuel cost and repairs. You end up paying more keeping something which is why I got rid of that fucking awful Fiat and will be getting rid of my Citroen soon.

Edit: rise in fuel prices = inefficiency liability.
This might make you rethink that strategy



LOL no. 19-23 mpg. In no way that makes sense. Even in America.
No, I wouldn't either, but the points he raises are what I was hinting at. If you have a car that is running well, reasonably cost-effective to run and has no major body / rust / mechanical issues, then why the hell risk junking that for something like he says that is really designed with the good for 70,000 miles ethos and then scrap it for another plastic car etc, which is not good for the planet either.

That doesn't make economical sense here due to the petrol prices.

Say 2014 C3 ...  100k miles lifespan for a car at 66mpg, that's 1515 gallons. 4.55 litres to the gallon = 6893 litres ... £1.92 / litre. £13,236 for fuel

Say Vince's Safrane ... 100k miles lifespan at 34mpg, that's 2941 gallons. 4.55 litres to the gallon = 13,382 litres ... £1.92 / litre. £25,694 for fuel

If you sell the Safrane and buy a C3 with 25k miles on the clock it'll cost you £6000. In 100k miles you will be better off by £6,694.

The safrane is worth £0 when you sell it. The C3 £1200 at 100k.

Put the £6694 in the bank, buy a nice smartphone with the difference and then get a newer C3 in 3-5 years. Total cost of ownership is MUCH lower with efficient engines.

The scary thing is if I sell my C3 now it's worth £1000 more than I paid for it because the rising fuel prices are compressing the market into efficient cars.
 
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Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125208 on: July 04, 2022, 08:19:01 pm »
There has to be a way for you to attend this meeting. Even if you have to book a slot at the library and use one of their PCs, or beg a friend (or even a enemy ;)) to let you use a modern computing device.

Otherwise, you're just another proverbial buggy-whip manufacturer, obsoleting yourself out of the workplace. :-//

Good luck, my friend.

Now get the fuck out of your employee's way and let you get this job!!!

mnem



No worries Dragon, as I said in a previous message I will just ask a friend to pass me their phone and install TEAMS on it !  >:D

So what about you then, how is your job hunt ? What kind of job are you targeting ? Interesting companies in your neck of the woods ?!




« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 08:30:05 pm by Vince »
 

Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125209 on: July 04, 2022, 08:22:00 pm »
And where are you going to get a 2Gs/s 14 bit 'scope for £650 ? :popcorn:
Most 'scopes are useless for precise amplitude measurement. 8 bits is ~ 0.5% error.

You’re not measuring amplitude. You’re integrating and interpolating samples.

 :-// As you are integrating digitally you have to digitise the AMPLITUDE at adequate resolution. As it may not be noise you are measuring you can't average to fudge the results get an extra bit or two of resolution.

Oversampling. Higher resolution, reduces noise. I’m not saying you sample one cycle. The bolometer has a response time and lag example. It’s doing some averaging too :)

But we are not talking low noise techniques, we are talking high accuracy measurement. There is a reason why virtually all AC and RF Votage & power primary standards are still based on thermal techniques.
 

Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125210 on: July 04, 2022, 08:28:09 pm »
<snip>

On cars there are diminishing returns on fuel cost and repairs. You end up paying more keeping something which is why I got rid of that fucking awful Fiat and will be getting rid of my Citroen soon.

Edit: rise in fuel prices = inefficiency liability.
This might make you rethink that strategy



LOL no. 19-23 mpg. In no way that makes sense. Even in America.
No, I wouldn't either, but the points he raises are what I was hinting at. If you have a car that is running well, reasonably cost-effective to run and has no major body / rust / mechanical issues, then why the hell risk junking that for something like he says that is really designed with the good for 70,000 miles ethos and then scrap it for another plastic car etc, which is not good for the planet either.

That doesn't make economical sense here due to the petrol prices.

Say 2014 C3 ...  100k miles lifespan for a car at 66mpg, that's 1515 gallons. 4.55 litres to the gallon = 6893 litres ... £1.92 / litre. £13,236 for fuel

Say Vince's Safrane ... 100k miles lifespan at 34mpg, that's 2941 gallons. 4.55 litres to the gallon = 13,382 litres ... £1.92 / litre. £25,694 for fuel

If you sell the Safrane and buy a C3 with 25k miles on the clock it'll cost you £6000. In 100k miles you will be better off by £6,694.

The safrane is worth £0 when you sell it. The C3 £1200 at 100k.

Put the £6694 in the bank, buy a nice smartphone with the difference and then get a newer C3 in 3-5 years. Total cost of ownership is MUCH lower with efficient engines.

The scary thing is if I sell my C3 now it's worth £1000 more than I paid for it because the rising fuel prices are compressing the market into efficient cars.

Nope. Just nope  :popcorn:
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125211 on: July 04, 2022, 08:30:35 pm »
Your funeral  :-//

I ran shitboxes for years - one broke down on the way to a job interview. I didn't get the job.
 
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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125212 on: July 04, 2022, 08:32:27 pm »
Happy COLONIAL REVOLT DAY everybody!!!   :-DD

And a Happy Treasonous Traitor's Sedition Day to you too. :-DD

And a happy EOL day, hopefully be here soon.  >:D

David
 

Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125213 on: July 04, 2022, 08:39:51 pm »
<SNIP>
 

Yes, CRTs are definitely interchangeable.

So monitor hack, shouldn't be overly difficult.

Old Hitachi/Matsushita schematics is too old and something seems to be missing but those two neck boards are very same.
Older neck board uses 74S03 as parallel inverters powering contrast trimmer directly and newer one seems to be different only from there.
Oldest has no neck board but contrast pot connection is pretty exactly same as 74S03 version of neck board.

Are all those 54620-series machines already closed.
More revealing solder side picture of neck board would be nice.

Completely forgot 54645A/D, its resolution was clear.
313 V x 512 H (pixels)

That's clearly PAL, but proportional and lowres.
Is there visible space between H-lines?
Back in the day CGA was clearly using only every other line of available physical pixels.
From pictures online there could be something missing but it is not much, dimming can reveal something but it doesn't change anything.
Full hires for PAL is 31250Hz H-sync, 31500Hz for NTSC.
Old Hitachi/Matsushita schematics has 24270Hz as H-sync and 60Hz as V-sync so 404 lines possible.

PAL and NTSC were also defined as 720 pixels wide, but no idea how much was physically available, not much more I guess.
One thing I remember though, very small pictures were exceptionally sharp.
So more than 500 was a norm already back then but no idea what was the major barrier, screen material or cathode ray energy.
FET in newer neck board indicates that rising time had a role.

From online pictures I'd say that 54600B grid is 100x60 pixels, vertical center line is around 128.
Vertical 256 must be a grid area, horizontal 500 seems to be all.
54622D pictures were pretty bad but horizontal pixel count seems to be more than those 54600Bs.

How this all then should be converted to VGA or SVGA.
Anti-aliasing is difficult when contrast is high and lines narrow.

One other thing, PAL pixel is not round, for that it needs a 5:4 screen, but that is for 576 visible scanlines.
Very nice, and clear.
What is the shape of the screen here?
Online pictures are pretty hopeless.

PAL and NTSC don't have pixels, only lines. Horizontal resolution is only limited by bandwidth.

What is your point?
[/quote]

You can't discuss PAL or NTSC in terms of pixels, they are analog standards not digital. I know where you are coming from, there ARE difgital standards that are basically equivilent to PAL and NTSC and can be displayed on analog monitors but they are not PAL or NTSC (ignoring the fact that PAL ant NTSC are in fact colour / color encoding standards)
 
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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125214 on: July 04, 2022, 08:40:37 pm »
You don't have to sign in with teams and you can use the web version usually. They will send out a web invite for it.

It's fucking shit so YMMV anyway. One of our outsourcers uses it.

As for it not being compatible with your phone, are you running some 5+ year old Android crate? That's usually the cause  :popcorn:

As for interviews, they are all Teams or Zoom these days. You have to suck it up if you want the money.

We usually want to meet people in the office. They'll be in the office at least 51% of their working time, on average (that's the rule), so if they're not comfortable with that, well, their problem.  We also insist on a bunch of other things, like proof of citizenship and so on. Many rôles require that the applicant is a Swedish citizen.

And Zoom is officially forbidden in our environment. 

Teams works on Linux. It's a hog, a fucking hog, but it works. To do a job interview, you'll need a camera and a microphone of course.  I have a colleague who likes pain, so he runs the semiofficial Linux distro we have built in-house. I run on OS X. Company Windows of course is so amputated it is completely impossible to use.

Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125215 on: July 04, 2022, 08:44:51 pm »
Your funeral  :-//

I ran shitboxes for years - one broke down on the way to a job interview. I didn't get the job.

Nope. Have run old '90's cars for 24 years now. At the same I have been watching every body else with their fancy modern cars, crying. I am the one laughing.

If it made sense to get a more modern one, I would run and get one tomorrow. But precisely because I have to count money, I have to stick to older cars (I much prefer them anyway, so win-win), and of course not buy ruins, and then maintain them myself to save on labour. But that goes for a modern car as well, it's just common sense.

Even the garage I sometimes rent  a lift at for some work, has endless stories about modern cars. He drools over my 5 pot Safrane. Even my local Renault garage in my village told me fuck keep your Safrane don't get modern junk it's a never ending expensive stream of problems. Saying "They don't make cars like this anymore.... keep you Safrane".

Well Sir thank you, that was my intention indeed.  :popcorn:

Same story when I take it to the MOT guy. He is on the front line to see old kinds of cars new and old.

« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 09:18:36 pm by Vince »
 

Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125216 on: July 04, 2022, 09:15:24 pm »
<SNIP>
 

Yes, CRTs are definitely interchangeable.

So monitor hack, shouldn't be overly difficult.

Old Hitachi/Matsushita schematics is too old and something seems to be missing but those two neck boards are very same.
Older neck board uses 74S03 as parallel inverters powering contrast trimmer directly and newer one seems to be different only from there.
Oldest has no neck board but contrast pot connection is pretty exactly same as 74S03 version of neck board.

Are all those 54620-series machines already closed.
More revealing solder side picture of neck board would be nice.

Completely forgot 54645A/D, its resolution was clear.
313 V x 512 H (pixels)

That's clearly PAL, but proportional and lowres.
Is there visible space between H-lines?
Back in the day CGA was clearly using only every other line of available physical pixels.
From pictures online there could be something missing but it is not much, dimming can reveal something but it doesn't change anything.
Full hires for PAL is 31250Hz H-sync, 31500Hz for NTSC.
Old Hitachi/Matsushita schematics has 24270Hz as H-sync and 60Hz as V-sync so 404 lines possible.

PAL and NTSC were also defined as 720 pixels wide, but no idea how much was physically available, not much more I guess.
One thing I remember though, very small pictures were exceptionally sharp.
So more than 500 was a norm already back then but no idea what was the major barrier, screen material or cathode ray energy.
FET in newer neck board indicates that rising time had a role.

From online pictures I'd say that 54600B grid is 100x60 pixels, vertical center line is around 128.
Vertical 256 must be a grid area, horizontal 500 seems to be all.
54622D pictures were pretty bad but horizontal pixel count seems to be more than those 54600Bs.

How this all then should be converted to VGA or SVGA.
Anti-aliasing is difficult when contrast is high and lines narrow.

One other thing, PAL pixel is not round, for that it needs a 5:4 screen, but that is for 576 visible scanlines.
Very nice, and clear.
What is the shape of the screen here?
Online pictures are pretty hopeless.

PAL and NTSC don't have pixels, only lines. Horizontal resolution is only limited by bandwidth.

What is your point?

You can't discuss PAL or NTSC in terms of pixels, they are analog standards not digital. I know where you are coming from, there ARE difgital standards that are basically equivilent to PAL and NTSC and can be displayed on analog monitors but they are not PAL or NTSC (ignoring the fact that PAL ant NTSC are in fact colour / color encoding standards)
[/quote]

Ok.

But this whole forum is more or less following updated standards, why not PAL and NTSC?
Pixels came to video signal when broadcasting company got their first digitizers.
TVs had also color rasters and if input was only RF it was quite close to video with pixels.
Finally pixels came to video with DVD, their visibility is another thing.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Triplett-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125217 on: July 04, 2022, 09:17:44 pm »
Having done both the "getting your maximum value out of the beginning of a car's life" and the "getting your maximum value out of the end of a car's life" thing, I know pretty much exactly how to do both, down to the penny.

Doing the latter only makes sense when you are young and dumb and fulla cum, and you can afford to have your car break down frequently, as in more often than every few years. When you get older, time and money wasted obviate the need to get a new or very low-miles current model car as your primary ride. Old faithfuls like our Saturn are okay as a second vehicle, or to keep around so you can pass it down to the kids.

But as a primary vehicle? Even at 35MPG, money pissed away and misery looking for a place to happen every time you turn the key.

mnem
*rode hard and put away wet one time too many*
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 09:21:55 pm by mnementh »
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Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125218 on: July 04, 2022, 09:24:37 pm »
I don't know. YMMV. I can only speak for the old cars I bought here, I can't speak for your old cars.  :-//

If they were shit and full of trouble then yes, flog them. I don't have problems with mine and they are cheap and easy to maintain myself, so I keep them. Simple  :-//
My first car I didn't know much about cars, so I got burned, but then you learn and the next you chose more wisely, that's all  :-//

If you can't tell a lemon, from a decent old car, yeah best to stick to a modern car and pray, if they can afford it.

It's like buying anything used really.

If you know squat about scopes,; you buy a shit box for 250 Euros, or buy a nice one for 50.. only difference is how much you know about scopes. Just don't buy the junk  :-//

As for costs again, makes me laugh. It's like saying my TDS 694C is junk. Well OK but it works and if you want the same B/W and sampling rate from Tek today, it's 50 or 100K maybe, I guess.I paid 250 euros for mine. So yeah, the other day I noticed a couple keys near the CRT don't work anymore, but yes, you can bet your ass I find it worth going through the trouble of fixing those keys, no matter how old and junky this scope might seem to most people. It doesn't have an LCD screen ? Yeah, so what ?!

And as far as I can tell, your old Saturn fits the old junk category, so how comes being so wise, you haven't splashed 50K to buy a new car ?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 09:32:14 pm by Vince »
 

Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125219 on: July 04, 2022, 09:26:37 pm »

As for stuff working on iPhones only, that’s a fairly new thing. Android has some architectural flaws which make it utterly unsuitable for carrying out business with any privacy requirements. Organisations are starting to see it as a risk. The one I work for has a complete ban on Android globally.

Swedish Defence forces issues only iPhones. Period. They gave out Microsoft phones as long as there were any, and I had one, but now it's only iPhone.  And I trust the people who make those decisions; they're no-bullshit open-eyes realists with a sense for proportions. Not afraid to make uncomfortable choices.

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125220 on: July 04, 2022, 09:33:31 pm »
On my way back up from the dwagon-cave, I made the mistake of peeking in on the Anniversary Project table...

How the fuck do you get a run in the top of a perfectly leveled table...?    :rant:

mnem
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Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125221 on: July 04, 2022, 09:35:05 pm »
Having done both the "getting your maximum value out of the beginning of a car's life" and the "getting your maximum value out of the end of a car's life" thing, I know pretty much exactly how to do both, down to the penny.

Doing the latter only makes sense when you are young and dumb and fulla cum, and you can afford to have your car break down frequently, as in more often than every few years. When you get older, time and money wasted obviate the need to get a new or very low-miles current model car as your primary ride. Old faithfuls like our Saturn are okay as a second vehicle, or to keep around so you can pass it down to the kids.

But as a primary vehicle? Even at 35MPG, money pissed away and misery looking for a place to happen every time you turn the key.

mnem
*rode hard and put away wet one time too many*

That's an excellent description of modern cars here and the main reason I will avoid getting one. My old car earned my trust, and that of all the guys on the forum, over many years.
Modern cars even brand new give trouble, you don't even have to wait 20 years to decide if they are reliable or not. They just aren't. And when they hiccup,; it's never cheap to fix, and you can't do it no the cheap by yourself because yo need fancy computers/ software and special tool and a dwarf to navigate inside the engine bay.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 09:36:37 pm by Vince »
 
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Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125222 on: July 04, 2022, 09:38:23 pm »
On my way back up from the dwagon-cave, I made the mistake of peeking in on the Anniversary Project table...

How the fuck do you get a run in the top of a perfectly leveled table...?    :rant:

mnem
*toddles off to shop finish grits of sandpaper and a sanding block*

Because it's old junk, only  misery waiting for a place to happen... just get a brand new table it's the only way to go ! Old tables are crap !  >:D
Trying to revive them is just wasted money and sweat, just get a modern shiny new table and get on with your life !  :popcorn:

« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 09:43:00 pm by Vince »
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125223 on: July 04, 2022, 09:39:07 pm »
@bd139

No need to explain your attitude etc and I hope that you didn't feel you were in any way being attacked, because you weren't, we all have our own ideas and thoughts and my comments were merely general ones and nothing more than that.

The real point here is that not everyone can do what you did or indeed do, if that was the case then you might not have ended up in the position that you are currently in. For instance, if everyone moved to the London area, could you imagine the cesspit that would be, more so than it currently is. Equally, those opportunities you mention, could equally also turn out to be like so many other great so-called golden opportunities and become a step too far and many have taken those steps and regretted it for the rest of their lives, having lost everything as well as their self-respect in the process.

Then there are those that keep repeating the same mistakes time and time again and never learn from their mistakes what ever they were, drugs, sex, booze, gambling etc, that magnet will still keep pulling them down the same pathways.

With regard to a smartphone, I agree with you broadly on that aspect, it is becoming an essential tool, but there is really no reason why a phone should have to be confined to the rubbish heap after just a couple of years, even if it is bettered by more modern models, the makers of them and app programmers should be able to support them properly for a sensible timescale, rather than a deliberate policy of forcing people to upgrade every 2 or 3 years, by them withdrawing updates, or even putting code in their updates to slowly cripple their devices, adding pressure on their owners to think about upgrading, which could lead some people into crime in order to quench the peer pressure of keeping up with others.

The truth is that each one of us has had to make decisions in their lives and many times, these decisions are influenced by family members, especially their parents which have prevented them following their own agendas and goals through family loyalty, sense of duty, love and respect.

But the end result will always be that yes, in an ideal world what you say does make a lot of sense, but to be able to do some of the things you speak of, requires that the person has the means at their disposal to do them with, which simply is not possible for many people. Had the world's wealth been better distributed, than many people would be in a far happier place with their own immediate future taken care off and people would be able to have all of these niceties in life, and the really wealthy would still be really wealthy but a little less so, and you know what, they really would not notice the difference. But alas while their corporate greed continues unabated, then the world is ultimately going to hell in a handcart unless someone can make them see sense that them or their descendants will ultimately perish in exactly the same way as you and I will and no amount of money will save them.

That is why the situation with Russia and Ukraine is scary, if he feels that he has nothing to lose by deploying nukes even those with limited power, it could spell the end of the planet for us all and that what having all the power in the hands of a few can do to the rest of us.

Edit; Isn't the iPhone 7 really becoming EOL now, iPhone 5 is dead in the water for Apps, as is my iPad Air which a 2018 model with a lot of apps no longer supporting it, it has 32GB of storage with 22GB free. It is my understanding that the iPhone 7 was released Sept 2016 so is already 2 years older so will have the same issues?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 09:53:03 pm by Specmaster »
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #125224 on: July 04, 2022, 09:40:48 pm »
Loctite 4851; stays flexible after curing, see attached datasheet. :-+ But the price :scared:

Looks like, this stuff isn't available anymore. At least to the private customer which needs only 20ml of it.

Are you aware of a replacement / successor of the Loctite 4851?
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 


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