Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mansaxel]

If companies also perceive that Android is a serious threat to their security, then let them issue iPhones / Blackberries to their staff. I have never known a company that actually expected their staff to provide a mobile phone, it was always a company asset and had to be handed back upon leaving their employment and strictly NO private calls were allowed.

Blackberry is dead.

in Sweden, people provide or get issued phones, depending on work. I've had an issued phone the last 26 or so years, and the restrictions on private calls have initially been different.  My stance was, that either $EMPLOYER swallows the bill, no questions asked, or I turn the phone off when I leave work for the day. It's worked out well.  Employer did not make a fuss.

With the phone being very much a infocentre for your complete life (and that's something you can't avoid, period.), the question is if you want your employer to own your phone. I chose to split work and private phones simply because of this. And I'm very much conscious what apps and which data that go on which phone, just because.

Today, one gets free minutes and SMS, in the entire EU, and a sensible blob of data. I get 25GiB a month on my private phone. Never run out.  My work phone gets unlimited data in Sweden and something like 100GiB in the EU. And free calls/SMS.

The US market of course is shat, and the UK will be too, but that's something you can thank the über-twit Rees-Mogg for.

Bottom line, you get a working phone or you lose. It's not nice, but that's where it is.  We chose to give our children second-hand iPhones that have been professionally refurbished, and that keeps cost at a reasonable level.

For computers, the curve isn't as steep. At least if you buy a sensible computer. My laptop is very old; a "Early 2015" 13" Retina MBP. It still runs a supported OS, and it works for my needs; but the battery is near-toast and the storage is full. Both can and will be dealt with this autumn. The work computer of course is newer, a 16" Intel MBP with large storage and barely a year old. Those muscles are needed for "Bad web sites turned into apps" like Teams and others.

[Vince]

Oh boy I didn't think old cars coudl be so much fun on TEA, almost as good as old floppies eh ? !

Suddenly I am thinking.... what if I shoved a floppy into my Safrane's tape deck ?! What might that produce, even MORE fun ?!!   

[BU508A]

Discussions about the efficiency of cars is somewhat physics related.

But, please, can we stop talking about or mention political situations?
In my opinion, this is pure whataboutism, especially here in the TEA thread.
It doesn't help at all, except pouring more fuel into the fire.

Thank you.

[nixiefreqq]

y'all got me playing with my 54622d ..... and damn it.   those squishy switches under the crt were back to being a pain in ass.
...
finally tried larger rectangles of AL tape and it so far is 100% good.

Does anybody have any experience of using conductive repair pads like these?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254871615598
450pcs Conductive Pads Keypad Repair Kits 2mm-8mm Box For IR Remote Controller
Thickness of pads: various, between approx. 0.5mm

Actually, now that I think of it... I've never had this problem on over a dozen 546xxx scopes where I've serviced the panel; every one has come back 100%, even this most recent 54600A, which literally had spots eaten out of the PCBs...

Are you guys scrubbing both the PCB and the pads on the membrane with IPA? You have to, both front and back in order to get a reliable read.

I don't use Q-tips; I scrub both the membrane and the PCB with a cotton kitchen towel (fine short nap; terry loops will snag on solder joints and edges of PCB) soaked in IPA.

Trick with the membrane keypad is to hold the body of the button in one hand and scrub each one individually; this allows you to scrub the conductive pad pretty aggressively with the IPA/towel in the other hand.

I also scrub around the solder joints on that intermediary cable with IPA and a toothbrush; that area collects cruft due to the tape stuck over it and will make the scope misread as it scans the buttons. On assembly, just leave those solder joints bare, or if you're anal aboot such things, a fresh strip of Kapton tape over the solder joints. Also, it is important to loop that ribbon cable exactly the same as HP made it; if you fold it over itself you'll have poor read problems.

mnem
 

ok, mnem didn't like the use of aluminium tape over those carbon buttons in the 54622d switches.

so i went to michaels craft store and bought a book of silver leaf.  pulled out the aluminium rectangles and replaced them with silver leaf of the same size and shape.  used a cotton ball to push it down on the buttons. exercised all 6 switches a bunch of times and then pulled it apart for visual inspection.  looks good.  if anything the buttons now seem even more sensitive than with the aluminium tape. 

i expect that mnem will now advise a trip back to michaels for gold leaf.  ok.....silver tarnishes, but silver tarnish is highly conductive and should not be a problem.

will it fail eventually?  maybe.

[Specmaster]

<snip>

On cars there are diminishing returns on fuel cost and repairs. You end up paying more keeping something which is why I got rid of that fucking awful Fiat and will be getting rid of my Citroen soon.

Edit: rise in fuel prices = inefficiency liability.

This might make you rethink that strategy

LOL no. 19-23 mpg. In no way that makes sense. Even in America.

No, I wouldn't either, but the points he raises are what I was hinting at. If you have a car that is running well, reasonably cost-effective to run and has no major body / rust / mechanical issues, then why the hell risk junking that for something like he says that is really designed with the good for 70,000 miles ethos and then scrap it for another plastic car etc, which is not good for the planet either.

That doesn't make economical sense here due to the petrol prices.

Say 2014 C3 ...  100k miles lifespan for a car at 66mpg, that's 1515 gallons. 4.55 litres to the gallon = 6893 litres ... £1.92 / litre. £13,236 for fuel

Say Vince's Safrane ... 100k miles lifespan at 34mpg, that's 2941 gallons. 4.55 litres to the gallon = 13,382 litres ... £1.92 / litre. £25,694 for fuel

If you sell the Safrane and buy a C3 with 25k miles on the clock it'll cost you £6000. In 100k miles you will be better off by £6,694.

The safrane is worth £0 when you sell it. The C3 £1200 at 100k.

Put the £6694 in the bank, buy a nice smartphone with the difference and then get a newer C3 in 3-5 years. Total cost of ownership is MUCH lower with efficient engines.

The scary thing is if I sell my C3 now it's worth £1000 more than I paid for it because the rising fuel prices are compressing the market into efficient cars.

Well that argument does to some extent hold up, until you consider the fact that Vince says he has no money, so he would have to burrow the 6K but from who, with no income no bank etc will entertain a loan, its a vicious circle, take any one link out of that circle and it crashes.

Now it seems that the worlds most efficient engines use a cylinder capacity of just 500cc and the world's best overall compromise in engine size a 4 cylinder 2 litre engine which is mine, diesel is also more efficient than petrol, as it squeezes more power and MPG from its fuel. So with that in mind, why doesn't the worlds Govts make it must have engine size in all new cars, banning anything larger. That really would concentrate minds on how to squeeze even more efficiency from the engines in all aspects, power, MPG and also emissions which would benefit everybody and the planet right now? 

[Vince]

Fuck cars and  smartphones, all junk.

Instead let's do something on topic and much more interesting : have these 3 lovely cans with lots of gold plated leads, how sexy.

Can't identify them. Does any old beard here have a clue  what they are ?

First two from the left, the two shortest ones, have 8 leads. The third / taller one has 10 leads no less.

Probably some vintage OP-amp or comparator or linear voltage regulator I assume, but well... Google didn't help me here.

EDIT : if you know the answer but DO NOT have an old beard, that's fine, I will listen none the less.

[mnementh]

I don't know. YMMV. I can only speak for the old cars I bought here, I can't speak for your old cars. 

If they were shit and full of trouble then yes, flog them. I don't have problems with mine and they are cheap and easy to maintain myself, so I keep them. Simple 
My first car I didn't know much about cars, so I got burned, but then you learn and the next you chose more wisely, that's all 

If you can't tell a lemon, from a decent old car, yeah best to stick to a modern car and pray, if they can afford it.

It's like buying anything used really.

If you know squat about scopes,; you buy a shit box for 250 Euros, or buy a nice one for 50.. only difference is how much you know about scopes. Just don't buy the junk 

As for costs again, makes me laugh. It's like saying my TDS 694C is junk. Well OK but it works and if you want the same B/W and sampling rate from Tek today, it's 50 or 100K maybe, I guess.I paid 250 euros for mine. So yeah, the other day I noticed a couple keys near the CRT don't work anymore, but yes, you can bet your ass I find it worth going through the trouble of fixing those keys, no matter how old and junky this scope might seem to most people. It doesn't have an LCD screen ? Yeah, so what ?!

And as far as I can tell, your old Saturn fits the old junk category, so how comes being so wise, you haven't splashed 50K to buy a new car ?

We did. 4 years ago we bought a brand-new Rav4. This is the closest thing in terms of reliability to a Saturn we could find nowadays; it is a pregnant Camry, which the entire world knows is (aside from consumables like tires, brakes & batteries) a 10-15 years zero-repairs vehicle if you do nothing but keep clean oil in it, and more if you actually take care of it.

We've had the Saturn since it was brand-new too; almost 23 years now. Over the course of its life, it provided collateral for no less than 3 life-altering loans, which we'd have been completely screwed without. And surviving a freak hailstorm, it paid out $6000 to us which allowed us to move and to close out one of those loans. Aside from a alternator and a radiator, the only repairs it has had are consumables of brakes, tires and batteries. Notice a pattern here...?

That is, until now. But I am a mechanic, and I know how to assess... it still has a year or three in it as long as we keep it for a 2nd vehicle. As primary transportation? Hell no. As a toy, or a 2nd vehicle? Hell yes.

Same as my brand new scope vs my 2465s and my 54645A.

So... just like you didn't know what you were missing not having a civilized semi-modern scope until you got that 54645D, I promise you Vince... you're missing out big time not having a semi-modern phone, or a semi-modern vehicle.

I think you've fallen into a really dangerous trap... a belief system built around the whole notion that everything new is cheap crap. The opposite is true with a lot of things; while almost everything nowadays is built to be disposable, many things are built now to be maintenance-free for the entirety of their design life. That is time you don't have to spend doing maintenance like "the good old days".

That is a thing of value in and of itself; it allows you to trade your single most valuable asset which is time, for mere easily replaceable money.

No matter how you slice it, that is a bargain.

As long as you're willing to step up and take that phone call from the here and now, rather than continue hiding out in the past.

mnem
"…You can linger too long in your dreams;
Say goodbye to the oldies but goodies,
'Cause the good ole days weren't always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems…"

[Specmaster]

Your funeral 

I ran shitboxes for years - one broke down on the way to a job interview. I didn't get the job.

I can understand that, but equally, there is zero guarantee that had you not broken down, you'd have got the job either. Any employer who would mark you down for that, is not worthy of your skills in my view. What would have happened had you been involved in an accident, or been delayed because the motorway was shut due to a RTA and you were on the motorway at the time that it became blocked, leaving you no wriggle room?

EDIT:
Employers need to live in the real world as well. I remember the time when the company I was working for was based in Brentford and for some reason decided to hold a meeting at the Hilton Hotel, Newbury North services on the M4. The entire sales force managed to make it there on time, even those that were coming down from the North of the country, but the 2 directors (MD and his wife) who lived at the time in Osterly arrived quite late for the meeting and did not even apologise for being late. Yet when members of the sales force arrived late occasionally, including me would get scolded for not showing our colleagues enough respect by ensuring that we gave ourselves plenty of time for hiccups on the way,  A clear signal if there was that they were entitled to be late, but we weren't.

[mnementh]

Yeeeah... there are a number of makes and models where if you buy new, the odds of it happening are literally statistically insignificant. Hence our decision to buy the Rav4.

mnem

[mnementh]

On my way back up from the dwagon-cave, I made the mistake of peeking in on the Anniversary Project table...

How the fuck do you get a run in the top of a perfectly leveled table...?   

mnem
*toddles off to shop finish grits of sandpaper and a sanding block*

Because it's old junk, only  misery waiting for a place to happen... just get a brand new table it's the only way to go ! Old tables are crap ! 
Trying to revive them is just wasted money and sweat, just get a modern shiny new table and get on with your life ! 

I got rid of Franken-Cruiser so I could have the time and money to spend on what's important... like fixing up a old table for no other reason than that it reminds my wife of her beloved father.  

I also got rid of a garage full of old engines, shop equipment, motorcycles and TE I knew I'd never fix for the same reason... some of it has been spread around in here, some of it has been mercifully executed. But all of it is gone because it stood in the way of what is important.

mnem
"The unexamined life is not worth living." ~Socrates

[Vince]

ENOUGH TALKING !

Unless someone can tell me what my vintage IC's are, I have the regret to inform the audience that I will have to shut down this forum  !!

I don't know how to do that but I will pay BD to do it for me, I am sure he is capable of it, somehow. Just need to find the right stuff to bribe him with. Maybe a pack of floppies for his Apple laptop !   

[mnementh]

y'all got me playing with my 54622d ..... and damn it.   those squishy switches under the crt were back to being a pain in ass.
...
finally tried larger rectangles of AL tape and it so far is 100% good.

Does anybody have any experience of using conductive repair pads like these?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254871615598
450pcs Conductive Pads Keypad Repair Kits 2mm-8mm Box For IR Remote Controller
Thickness of pads: various, between approx. 0.5mm

Actually, now that I think of it... I've never had this problem on over a dozen 546xxx scopes where I've serviced the panel; every one has come back 100%, even this most recent 54600A, which literally had spots eaten out of the PCBs...

Are you guys scrubbing both the PCB and the pads on the membrane with IPA? You have to, both front and back in order to get a reliable read.

I don't use Q-tips; I scrub both the membrane and the PCB with a cotton kitchen towel (fine short nap; terry loops will snag on solder joints and edges of PCB) soaked in IPA.

Trick with the membrane keypad is to hold the body of the button in one hand and scrub each one individually; this allows you to scrub the conductive pad pretty aggressively with the IPA/towel in the other hand.

I also scrub around the solder joints on that intermediary cable with IPA and a toothbrush; that area collects cruft due to the tape stuck over it and will make the scope misread as it scans the buttons. On assembly, just leave those solder joints bare, or if you're anal aboot such things, a fresh strip of Kapton tape over the solder joints. Also, it is important to loop that ribbon cable exactly the same as HP made it; if you fold it over itself you'll have poor read problems.

mnem
 

ok, mnem didn't like the use of aluminium tape over those carbon buttons in the 54622d switches.

so i went to michaels craft store and bought a book of silver leaf.  pulled out the aluminium rectangles and replaced them with silver leaf of the same size and shape.  used a cotton ball to push it down on the buttons. exercised all 6 switches a bunch of times and then pulled it apart for visual inspection.  looks good.  if anything the buttons now seem even more sensitive than with the aluminium tape. 

I expect that mnem will now advise a trip back to michaels for gold leaf.  ok.....silver tarnishes, but silver tarnish is highly conductive and should not be a problem.

will it fail eventually?  maybe.

It will become part of the gold-plating on the PCB after a while. Gold and silver seem to marry easily and happily, especially when there's even just a few angry pixies involved. As to what I would recommend... at this point, it's hard to say, since your carbon pads are now contaminated with so many things. 

I would have recommended you try cleaning them again, this time with a cotton kitchen towel (the fine nappy kind, not terry cloth) wet with IPA. As I suggested earlier.

mnem
This space FOR RENT.

[Specmaster]

If companies also perceive that Android is a serious threat to their security, then let them issue iPhones / Blackberries to their staff. I have never known a company that actually expected their staff to provide a mobile phone, it was always a company asset and had to be handed back upon leaving their employment and strictly NO private calls were allowed.

Blackberry is dead.

in Sweden, people provide or get issued phones, depending on work. I've had an issued phone the last 26 or so years, and the restrictions on private calls have initially been different.  My stance was, that either $EMPLOYER swallows the bill, no questions asked, or I turn the phone off when I leave work for the day. It's worked out well.  Employer did not make a fuss.

With the phone being very much a infocentre for your complete life (and that's something you can't avoid, period.), the question is if you want your employer to own your phone. I chose to split work and private phones simply because of this. And I'm very much conscious what apps and which data that go on which phone, just because.

Today, one gets free minutes and SMS, in the entire EU, and a sensible blob of data. I get 25GiB a month on my private phone. Never run out.  My work phone gets unlimited data in Sweden and something like 100GiB in the EU. And free calls/SMS.

The US market of course is shat, and the UK will be too, but that's something you can thank the über-twit Rees-Mogg for.

Bottom line, you get a working phone or you lose. It's not nice, but that's where it is.  We chose to give our children second-hand iPhones that have been professionally refurbished, and that keeps cost at a reasonable level.

For computers, the curve isn't as steep. At least if you buy a sensible computer. My laptop is very old; a "Early 2015" 13" Retina MBP. It still runs a supported OS, and it works for my needs; but the battery is near-toast and the storage is full. Both can and will be dealt with this autumn. The work computer of course is newer, a 16" Intel MBP with large storage and barely a year old. Those muscles are needed for "Bad web sites turned into apps" like Teams and others.

Well, I think Blackberry was still around, it did die a few years ago but was brought back to life again and I think they have now as of Jan 4th 2022 ceased in the mobile world. Instead what they are doing is making their security available on any phone that is running Android 5 and higher. Android 5 was released to the world on Nov 4th 2014 and this a shining example of what I was saying earlier about manufacturers and APP developers should still be willing to support older O/S's. My current phone is a 2019 model, running Android 10 and is already suffering slow-downs despite having plenty of storage left and some apps requiring Android 11 or better.

This link provides more details and also a download link to a free trial of their security system for all your messages etc if it is deemed that you or your employer deems it to be vital. I used to have a company Blackberry phone, and it was reliable but had a dreadful UI. https://www.blackberry.com/us/en

[bd139]

ENOUGH TALKING !

Unless someone can tell me what my vintage IC's are, I have the regret to inform the audience that I will have to shut down this forum  !!

I don't know how to do that but I will pay BD to do it for me, I am sure he is capable of it, somehow. Just need to find the right stuff to bribe him with. Maybe a pack of floppies for his Apple laptop !   

Don’t have to pay me. Especially not floppy disks .

They are Harris opamps. Lookup Harris HA-2525.

Edit: I was going to write a long reply to other posts but I will say I’ve read them and my eyes have stopped working now and I think everyone is tired of this line of conversation now. If we meet in person we’ll all have to get drunk and fight each other or something 

[Zoli]

Loctite 4851; stays flexible after curing, see attached datasheet. But the price

Looks like, this stuff isn't available anymore. At least to the private customer which needs only 20ml of it.

Are you aware of a replacement / successor of the Loctite 4851?

In NA is still available(random search: https://www.rshughes.com/p/Loctite-Prism-4851-Cyanoacrylate-Adhesive-20-G-Bottle-37732-IDH-524540/079340_37732/); I know, this isn't help. Try to contact Henkel/Loctite, and court out a sample bottle from the local rep
What I do know, there is light(405nm) activated version, too, which I don't recommend, unless you will use it up completely before expire; once expired, is useless garbage(and I don't remember the part#, sorry).
Compare to: my bottle of 4851 expired 10/20, and is still usable; it doesn't has the original strength, but is still flexible, and react nicely with the accelerator.

[mnementh]

HA2-2525s lurking on fleaBay: https://www.ebay.com/p/1020288657

mnem

[Specmaster]

ENOUGH TALKING !

Unless someone can tell me what my vintage IC's are, I have the regret to inform the audience that I will have to shut down this forum  !!

I don't know how to do that but I will pay BD to do it for me, I am sure he is capable of it, somehow. Just need to find the right stuff to bribe him with. Maybe a pack of floppies for his Apple laptop !   

Don’t have to pay me. Especially not floppy disks .

They are Harris opamps. Lookup Harris HA-2525.

Edit: I was going to write a long reply to other posts but I will say I’ve read them and my eyes have stopped working now and I think everyone is tired of this line of conversation now. If we meet in person we’ll all have to get drunk and fight each other or something 

Fight, screw that, have a drink by all means 

[Cerebus]

Edit; Isn't the iPhone 7 really becoming EOL now, iPhone 5 is dead in the water for Apps, as is my iPad Air which a 2018 model with a lot of apps no longer supporting it, it has 32GB of storage with 22GB free. It is my understanding that the iPhone 7 was released Sept 2016 so is already 2 years older so will have the same issues?

Nothing like it. The previous model, the iPhone 6s (first sold sept 2015, end of sale sept 2018), runs the current version of iOS and is still getting updates. The iPhone 7 was introduced a year later and discontinued 2019. Apple guarantee at least four years of updates from end of sale and the previous two models got five and six years of updates respectively. So the iPhone 7 has got at least until Sept 2023 to run, and quite likely as far out as 2025.

I don't know what you're saying about the iPad as there was no iPad Air on sale in 2018. There was the iPad Air 2 with an end of sale in 2017, and the iPad Air 3 which wasn't on sale before March 2019. However, both are currently supported on the latest version of iOS and are receiving updates to this day. Only the original iPad Air (EOS March 2016) has fallen off the update cycle, limited to iOS 12.5.5.

[xrunner]

Nothing like it. The previous model, the iPhone 6s (first sold sept 2015, end of sale sept 2018), runs the current version of iOS and is still getting updates.

Yep 6s here working like a champ and does everything I need. But will upgrade eventually.

[bd139]

My spare phone is a 6s. Has been through four people including myself twice.

[xrunner]

My spare phone is a 6s. Has been through four people including myself twice.

Bought it from my neice when she upgraded. It''s rose colored but who cares. 

The one I had before was an iPhone 4 and yes they gave marching orders for that one as in we're not giving updates after this date so fair warning the hardware can't cut it.  Not sure what the limiting factor will be on this one probably processor speed? I've replaced the batt. myself and it keeps on chugging along. 

[Specmaster]

<snip>
We did. 4 years ago we bought a brand-new Rav4. This is the closest thing in terms of reliability to a Saturn we could find nowadays; it is a pregnant Camry, which the entire world knows is (aside from consumables like tires, brakes & batteries) a 10-15 years zero-repairs vehicle if you do nothing but keep clean oil in it, and more if you actually take care of it.

We've had the Saturn since it was brand-new too; almost 23 years now. Over the course of its life, it provided collateral for no less than 3 life-altering loans, which we'd have been completely screwed without. And surviving a freak hailstorm, it paid out $6000 to us which allowed us to move and to close out one of those loans. Aside from a alternator and a radiator, the only repairs it has had are consumables of brakes, tires and batteries. Notice a pattern here...?

That is, until now. But I am a mechanic, and I know how to assess... it still has a year or three in it as long as we keep it for a 2nd vehicle. As primary transportation? Hell no. As a toy, or a 2nd vehicle? Hell yes.

Same as my brand new scope vs my 2465s and my 54645A.

So... just like you didn't know what you were missing not having a civilized semi-modern scope until you got that 54645D, I promise you Vince... you're missing out big time not having a semi-modern phone, or a semi-modern vehicle.

I think you've fallen into a really dangerous trap... a belief system built around the whole notion that everything new is cheap crap. The opposite is true with a lot of things; while almost everything nowadays is built to be disposable, many things are built now to be maintenance-free for the entirety of their design life. That is time you don't have to spend doing maintenance like "the good old days".

That is a thing of value in and of itself; it allows you to trade your single most valuable asset which is time, for mere easily replaceable money.

No matter how you slice it, that is a bargain.

As long as you're willing to step up and take that phone call from the here and now, rather than continue hiding out in the past.

mnem
"…You can linger too long in your dreams;
Say goodbye to the oldies but goodies,
'Cause the good ole days weren't always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems…"

Both you and BD do make some valid points but as I pointed out, it assumes that others have the same ability and opportunities at changing their lives and requires them to have the money in the first instance to be to pony up when required. Indeed, the same could go for myself, but what has happened to us along the way is done and dusted, we cannot go back and alter the course of history, all any of us can do is to play the hand that we have been dealt with. I know I dream of all the things I am going to do if my numbers ever come up in our national lottery. 

[mnementh]

Fuck cars and  smartphones, all junk.

Instead let's do something on topic and much more interesting : have these 3 lovely cans with lots of gold plated leads, how sexy.

Can't identify them. Does any old beard here have a clue  what they are ?

First two from the left, the two shortest ones, have 8 leads. The third / taller one has 10 leads no less.

Probably some vintage OP-amp or comparator or linear voltage regulator I assume, but well... Google didn't help me here.

EDIT : if you know the answer but DO NOT have an old beard, that's fine, I will listen none the less.

   

Your Harris Op-Amps are attached below. That Texas Instruments CT305 is being a total cunt. Even TI doesn't want to admit to it.

mnem
Maybe we need to call it a CunT305...?

[Specmaster]

Edit; Isn't the iPhone 7 really becoming EOL now, iPhone 5 is dead in the water for Apps, as is my iPad Air which a 2018 model with a lot of apps no longer supporting it, it has 32GB of storage with 22GB free. It is my understanding that the iPhone 7 was released Sept 2016 so is already 2 years older so will have the same issues?

Nothing like it. The previous model, the iPhone 6s (first sold sept 2015, end of sale sept 2018), runs the current version of iOS and is still getting updates. The iPhone 7 was introduced a year later and discontinued 2019. Apple guarantee at least four years of updates from end of sale and the previous two models got five and six years of updates respectively. So the iPhone 7 has got at least until Sept 2023 to run, and quite likely as far out as 2025.

I don't know what you're saying about the iPad as there was no iPad Air on sale in 2018. There was the iPad Air 2 with an end of sale in 2017, and the iPad Air 3 which wasn't on sale before March 2019. However, both are currently supported on the latest version of iOS and are receiving updates to this day. Only the original iPad Air (EOS March 2016) has fallen off the update cycle, limited to iOS 12.5.5.

I googled how to tell the age of my iPad and followed the instructions and was told to navigate to the General tab, where it gives me the model name and model number, serial number and the software version. There it gives me that model as being iPad Air currently running the latest iOS software of 12.5.5. Then the google site said to navigate to Legal tab, then onto Regulatory tab and then scroll down to very bottom and there almost hidden from view (in a ink colour designed to be hard to read) is the date of manufacture and that date is 2018-02-06. So that is where that information came from.

[Cerebus]

Nothing like it. The previous model, the iPhone 6s (first sold sept 2015, end of sale sept 2018), runs the current version of iOS and is still getting updates.

Yep 6s here working like a champ and does everything I need. But will upgrade eventually.

My current phone is the original iPhone SE (which is basically a 6s in a 5 sized case). I got it specifically because it was the physically largest iPhone I could tolerate and as a Mac user of many years it was time that I gave in and just accepted that if I wanted a phone and computer that would work together (after many failures with Android working with any computer) I had to get an iPhone.

I'm upgrading when I'm forced to and not a minute sooner, unless by some miracle Apple realise that there are people who want a phone that fits a pocket comfortably and are content to leave it there 99% of the time.