Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 35422437 times)

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Offline TopLoser

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138100 on: September 29, 2025, 04:44:10 pm »
The voltage is adjustable in the software on both units, by default it's 40KV but I can mod that in the CFG file to 50KV in my OR unit but not in the PixArray - mine just clipped it at 40KV.

The current is set manually with a pot on the power supply, the Spellman PSU in my OR unit is rated 50KV 2mA and the pot was set to give the full 2mA when I checked it, but I've got a different tube to yours. My PixArray was limited to 0.5mA, I didn't check what tube was fitted but the PSU was certainly smaller in size than the Spellman in the OR.

I've never seen 2 of these bloody things built the same, they're all like 6th form school projects...
 

Offline Hydron

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138101 on: September 29, 2025, 05:50:50 pm »
The voltage is adjustable in the software on both units, by default it's 40KV but I can mod that in the CFG file to 50KV in my OR unit but not in the PixArray - mine just clipped it at 40KV.

The current is set manually with a pot on the power supply, the Spellman PSU in my OR unit is rated 50KV 2mA and the pot was set to give the full 2mA when I checked it, but I've got a different tube to yours. My PixArray was limited to 0.5mA, I didn't check what tube was fitted but the PSU was certainly smaller in size than the Spellman in the OR.

I've never seen 2 of these bloody things built the same, they're all like 6th form school projects...
Oh man, I've clearly been misled by my 2 units being somewhat similar! I was able to juice my PixArray up to 50kV without issue (hard to verify mind, though it did say that on the LCD), have not tested that on the OR unit yet. Also hard to verify what the current actually is running at, I guess I'll just need to rely on the monitor outputs (directly measuring either 50kV or 1mA floating at 50kV is not without challenge!).

They do indeed seem to have a bit of she'll-be-right attitude in their construction; hand written serial numbers everywhere, crazy thin mains wiring inside the PixArray and even some internal development notes in a text file I found on one of mine. Oh, and marking tx/rx on the fibre cards with bits of crooked sticky tape.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2025, 08:20:08 pm by Hydron »
 

Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138102 on: October 01, 2025, 09:02:17 pm »
hello David thank you for helping me.
I don`t have any manual from the Hickok, but found the application and some typing how this works in the US patent what was made for the DP100.
This includes a application and a parts list.

Also I have to search for the nixie tube for my other DPM3200 there is one of them broken.

Manuals for the DMS3200 & DMS3200P, DP160, DP200 are on the webarchive at least, all scans from the manualplus clearout.
https://archive.org/details/manualsplus?tab=collection&query=hickok

The DP100 one is in the list of manuals I bought from manualsplus just before they EOL'd, it's in storage at the moment.

David

I've been over to the storage unit, bought back the Hickok manual, the DMS3202 ....
                             .... and some anchors that will be going tomorrow, hopefully to find good homes in November, the space will be quickly refilled with some auction purchases.  ;D

David
 

Offline rdenney

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138103 on: October 01, 2025, 09:36:36 pm »
I finally decided to move the big and flaky old B&K scope to storage--I'm not motivated to tear into it just now. But I don't want my old Tektronix T934 to be my only analogish scope (in addition to the hyperdigital Rigol DHO804)--it does the basic analog things well but I like some of the features of the digital scopes. But I'm finding that the Rigol takes a lot time to boot, and a long time to figure out how to get what I want from it. And my fingers are too fat for the touchscreen, so I really want to attach a larger touch screen to it. So, I bit the bullet today on a vintage Agilent 54622A, which came in a very complete kit that included the HP probes a spare generic probe, all three books (programming I presume, user, and service, still shrinkwrapped), an RS232 cable, and a CD with the Agilent software of some sort on it. I'm curious about that software, but we shall see what it actually has on it.

I'm expecting to have to clean the buttons and maybe the encoders when it arrives, plus the knobs are grungy.

I was quite impressed with how straightforward this scope is in use while still providing some of the features that only a digital scope can provide. In particular, the X-Y mode is as straightforward as on the Tek; not so much on the Rigol. But the Tek also needs its mode switch to be cleaned, so I need to open that one up, too. Another lovely feature which I do really enjoy on the Rigol as well: Auto-scaling. It can also trigger on either channel, and the external trigger input is on the front (rather than on the back as with the Tek).

I'm sentimental about the Tek--I've had it and enjoyed it for many years. But it's ancient at this point. I was hoping I'd be able to clean up the B&K, which is a good piece of gear made by Trio/Kenwood, and use it as a backup for the Tek. But it's going to take a lot of work--every switch and pot on it is intermittent and wonky. And it's a bit limited in bandwidth. The HP has a boatload more features, of course, and is also a lot easier to service. The B&K might find a new home after I clean it up.

Rick "likes having several scopes set up for different things" Denney
« Last Edit: October 01, 2025, 09:38:14 pm by rdenney »
 

Offline Cyclotron

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138104 on: October 01, 2025, 10:57:48 pm »
This Tektronics 577 Curve Tracer with the 177 fixture mysteriously arrived at my door looking for a home. I welcomed it in.
The tube display appears bright and working so that's a big plus to me. I might have to jump it up higher in my project list.
LCRs and Curve tracers are so fascinating to me. I might have to jump it ahead in my queue.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2025, 04:47:16 pm by Cyclotron »
 
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Offline rdenney

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138105 on: October 02, 2025, 01:42:27 pm »
Green nail polish did the job for me for a similar black binding post. Didn't even need to buy it, turns out someone in the house had purchased every colour known to (wo)man...

I've finished returning the 6644a to a state of good repair ready for bench use. I showed earlier making the phenolic mounting plate for the front terminals. Since then, I've replaced the RIFA caps, added the caps specified in the service manual for the front terminals, wired those terminals, added a sense line from the rear external sense line connection to the front terminals, applied green nail polish (thanks for the suggestion!), and fully tested the supply (well, at least to the 150-watt limit of my TDI load).

The power supply is limited to 3.5 amps of output, but I used 12-gauge wire to minimize even tiny voltage drop from the PCB to the front jacks. Since I was ordering caps anyway, I ordered a dozen through-hole 1/4" spade lugs and crimped connectors onto the wire. I also crimped eyelet connectors and tightened them under the nuts for the front terminals, but those will be harder to remove if I ever need to pull the PCB for servicing. Connectors on the PCB makes that a nonissue.


Here are the front-terminal connections on the PCB, including the capacitors I installed to match the service manual schematic that shows the front terminals implemented. I did go ahead and use RIFA caps where needed for the rating, recognizing that I may be back here doing it again in a couple of decades. The unit appears to have been made in the mid-90's, and the RIFA caps I removed were just starting to show the first signs of hairline cracks in the shells. I use Y2-rated caps for the EMI filters to ground from the positive and negative outputs, but between the two outputs I used a good film cap. There was a screw terminal under the grounding point for those Y2 caps, and I moved a screw from two inches away to this point to make it an anchor point for the front-panel earth ground terminal. The grounding lug on incoming power is anchored to the steel chassis on the other side of the board, so the chassis provides a direct grounding connection. Tying the negative DC output to earth ground requires a strap between the terminals (front or rear).


Here's the replacement X2 Rifa cap for EMI filtering of incoming power. I replaced all the RIFA caps with new ones.


Then, I tested the unit. Here it is showing 50V DC output at 3 amps into my TDI 50-15-150 Dynaload, using the front terminals. Nothing got hot and the voltage didn't sag even one millivolt. The voltage is off by a dozen or so millivolts compared to my 3456a, which is well within acceptable levels for my purposes. The Dynaload agrees. I let this sit for a good 15 minutes, listening to the 6644 modulate its cooling fan as it warmed up. Nothing got more than cozy-warm. This is 71% of its maximum rated load (60V at 3.5 amps), but it's the most power my Dynaload can dissipate. I lowered the voltage and ran the current up to 3.5 amps. I also extensively tested the power supply's current limiting ability, and it worked perfectly at all settings up to 150 watts of output.






I buttoned everything up, and then made labels for the new terminals. I don't really like the clear labels--the material is too shiny--but it does what it's supposed to do. I also bought a bottle of green gel nail polish and applied it to the earth-ground terminal. I'm not sure my little 4-watt 356nm UV lamp has enough juice to fully cure the nail polish, so today that terminal is sitting on a sunny windowsill.


Ready for service:


Rick "forgot to put the output on the scope or measure the ripple" Denney
 
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Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138106 on: October 02, 2025, 03:29:20 pm »
So, I have been playing with things too.

Just got a TDS540 scope that was busted for a few thousand yen. I swapped in a replacement PSU as the one inside was molested by the previous owner.
After replacing the VCO module on the acquisition board due to capacitor leakage, I am down to one last error to fix. I'm wondering if a recalibration might do it..
I almost recapped the acquisition board, but I ran out of capacitors...  :( Will have to order more, but the board looks clean anyway so I don't think there is any bad traces.

Code: [Select]
ERROR: diagnostic test failure, ctlConfidencDiag, ** 3.040e6 <= exp <= 3.215e6 actual= 3.296e6, mainTI= 5.87e-9 delayTI= 6.49e-9  deltaCnt= 7.60e1 CTLdelta= 4
I'll repair the busted PSU properly later for use in a future scope repair.



I also finally got my hands on a HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer with all options, also for a few thousand yen (equal to about US$50 all up including shipping). So now I have the third part of the 'holy trinity'  ;D Oscilloscope does Amplitude over Time, Spectrum Analyzer does Amplitude over Frequency, and the Modulation Domain Analyzer does Frequency over Time.

The case was a little broken though on the rear feet etc, so I then also bought a HP 54502A 400MHz scope for cheap and swapped the case.
However, the scope case had no EMI spray paint on the inside like the Modulation Domain Analyzer does, so I bought some silver based EMI spray from a Japanese company and it actually came out really great. The resistance is an order of magnitude lower than the stuff HP used.
It then got a full set of replacement electrolytic capacitors, an FRAM in place of the Dallas NVRAM and I swapped out the CRT as it was a bit burnt in. Now it's all calibrated and working perfectly.

I also scored a late version of the service manual for a reasonable price on ebay, I scanned it and uploaded it to the HP groups.io along with a bunch of other stuf I've found so far.
53310A HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment link


As for the 54502A, it had a bad channel, so I then went and bought a cheap 54504A scope (lower spec than the 54502A) that was physically smashed up so I didn't feel bad about scrapping it.
It gave it's good CRT like a round-robin to the 54502A, along with an input hybrid and the 54502A then got a full set of new electrolytic capacitors and also an FRAM in place of the Dallas NVRAM.
It too is all calibrated and tested as working perfectly.

So now I have a few spare HP scope parts, including a working 54504A main board, recapped PSU, CRT driver board, burnt-in CRT and a good input hybrid, plus a few other little bits and pieces.

If anyone needs some HP scope bits, let me know. I'll sell them cheap just to get rid of them.. :)



And finally I bought a HP 33120A Arb function generator for 8000 yen in a semi-working state. The screen was dim and there was a burning smell.
I had a suspicion and it was revealed to be correct when I opened the thing up. A couple burnt tantalum caps...
I replaced them and the unit worked perfectly, it passed performance verification with flying colours.
So I slapped a new handle on it and sold it off, almost tripled my money.  ;D
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 
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Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138107 on: October 02, 2025, 05:44:46 pm »
I also finally got my hands on a HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer with all options, also for a few thousand yen (equal to about US$50 all up including shipping). So now I have the third part of the 'holy trinity'  ;D Oscilloscope does Amplitude over Time, Spectrum Analyzer does Amplitude over Frequency, and the Modulation Domain Analyzer does Frequency over Time.

I'm sure you will enjoy it; they are surprisingly fun with one exception: figuring out how many zeros or nines there are in a 12-digit measurement.

They are also surprisingly versatile, e.g. measuring risetimes:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hpagilent-53310a-modulation-domain-analyser-frequency-time-interval-analyser/msg3196908/#msg3196908
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138108 on: October 02, 2025, 09:12:33 pm »
Had a trip out today to pick up my auction items, one of which is another HP 735A for the collection, a 1965 revision one (sn 504-00141), but almost like Trigger's broom inside, I suspect the original transformer might have taken a dump, the oven is a bit newer too, it was missing the oven lamp & holder cap, borrowed one from the smashed one.







The early revision board, without pre-regulator, the Sprague capacitors are in mint condition.  ::)



A quick test for 30mins and it seems to be functioning OK, didn't have time to warm up a better DVM and conveniently the 3460B underneath has a very dead 1V range.  :-DD



David
« Last Edit: October 02, 2025, 09:19:46 pm by factory »
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138109 on: October 02, 2025, 10:27:21 pm »
That 735A looks like if HP made the Fluke 731B, or is it the other way around?...... :D
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 

Offline d-el

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138110 on: October 02, 2025, 11:34:28 pm »
And finally I bought a HP 33120A Arb function generator for 8000 yen in a semi-working state. The screen was dim and there was a burning smell.

Old tantalum capacitor...
Several devices had the same problem. Some were quite new, for example, the Agilent 33120A.

Offline Gertjan

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138111 on: October 03, 2025, 08:02:04 am »
another HP 735A for the collection, a 1965 revision one (sn 504-00141)...

Yes, the HP 735A is a thing of beauty. Mine is from 1966, Serial No. 547-00281.


IMG_7859__HP735A_front_glowing-2000pix.jpg

It is a prime example of "They Just Don't Make 'Em Like That Anymore". Everything oozes quality and attention to detail.
Like the solid copper with gold flash binding posts where it matters.

I especially like the pilot light. When the oven is heating up, it shines bright, and when the oven reaches temperature, it becomes dim. Thus complete visual indication of oven status. (HP simply wired the bulb in parallel with the oven heater :))

When you open it up, you are greeted with a plot of HP's 5 week burn-in:


IMG_7823__HP_735A_Reference_Voltage_Stability_Chart-2000pix.jpg

(00386 is the Serial No. of the oven)

Inside mine is still looking pristine:


IMG_7824__HP_735A_bovenaanzicht,_oven_&_trafo-2000pix.jpg

I tested the Sprague capacitors, and they were fine. Probably they will last longer than new ones, if I had replaced them. (Been there, done that :))


IMG_7826__HP_735A_bovenaanzicht,_voedingsprint_&_uitgangschak-2000pix.jpg

Those red resistors are specced ±0.01% and ±0.02% tolerance, and ±5ppm Tempco. On top of that, they are MATCHED.

The oven is warm in 7...10 minutes. Mine is stable to the last ppm after 4 hours warm-up from stone cold, and drifts about -15ppm per year.

Edit: I got curious, and the 3458A was warm, so I did a new measurement. The 735A wasn't powered up in a few months. It was completely warmed up and stable in 2.5hours. Drift over the last 17 months was -9ppm. Not bad at all for a 59 year old device :).

One caveat is it's high output impedance of 1000 Ohms... This transfer standard is from the time that saturated and unsaturated standard cells were the norm, only to be measured with Null-voltmeters.
1kΩ output impedance means that a DMM with 10MΩ input imp. will give a reading error of 100uV = 100ppm too low!


IMG_7853__HP735A_geeft_precies_1V-2000pix.jpg

But with the 10GΩ input impedance of the 8846A, the error is reduced to 0,1ppm. (=drowned in other uncertainties)

regards, Gertjan.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2025, 03:37:42 pm by Gertjan »
 

Offline dazz1

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) 1980s? TRIO CO-1303D 75mm, 5MHz Oscilloscope
« Reply #138112 on: October 04, 2025, 08:41:49 am »
Hi

Found a classic Trio CO-1303D oscilloscope on the local on-line auction site (much better than e-bay).
From clues that came with the scope, this is from the estate of a long-time radio ham.
Purchased from Dick Smith Electronics for $279.53, likely around 1980. 
Came in the original box with documentation.
Likely a prized possession. 

The made-in-Japan CO-1303D was sold under a number of brands, including Dick Smith Electronics.

The manual was unhelpfully in Japanese, no translation.  It did come with a very old photo-copy of the instruction manual including circuit diagrams and calibration setup.

I am aware that some have a low opinion of the CO-1303D, but these basic entry level scopes provided capability for those that could not afford a HP or Tektronix.  They were simple enough that they could be modified.


The scope also came with bonus modifications.  I have read that some versions of the CO-1303 were factory fitted with a two tone signal generator for testing transmitters, especially SSB.  Mine has that modification, but it is an Electronics Today International magazine design ETI-149.    That add-on is built into the case and was itself modified to switch to a single audio tone.  Also the level potentiometer switched open the transformer centre tap to make the signal generator fully floating.     These scopes were simple and cheap enough to allow modifications.  A really useful learning opportunity not available in modern scopes.

On the rear of the scope, two additional RF connectors have been added and connected in parallel with a switched-in variable capacitance to ground.  Looks like a filter for either direct drive of the deflection plates, or Z beam intensity. 

There is no return trace blanking, so not sure if that is a fault or a "feature". 

Image comments are:

741  The box the TRIO was purchased in, including documentation.

745  Knobs and an audio socket are for the ETI 149 Dual Tone Generator the owner built into the case.

754  The insides.  It all looks original and I haven't replaced any components.

763  Testing the dual tone generator gave me an excuse to use the FFT mode of my HP5645D scope.

759 Dual tone displayed on the CO-1303D.  The CRT is clear and sharp.

746  A view of the rear panel with the extra two RF connectors.  I'll have to do some experimentation to figure out what these are for.

757  A view of the scope connected to my Dick Smith Electronics sinewave signal generator.  No ICs in this, so probably a similar vintage to the TRIO.  It was free, so by definition, it is good.  It is actually a reasonably good and useful thing.


I think I will use this scope for HV probing.  If some highly energetic electrons get into the front end, I can readily fix the damage.   This would be better than blowing up one of my "good" scopes.

I'd really like to add an IEC power socket, but I have too many other things to do.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2025, 09:00:14 am by dazz1 »
Dazz

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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) 1980s? TRIO CO-1303D 75mm, 5MHz Oscilloscope
« Reply #138113 on: October 04, 2025, 10:35:53 pm »
Hi

Found a classic Trio CO-1303D oscilloscope on the local on-line auction site (much better than e-bay).
From clues that came with the scope, this is from the estate of a long-time radio ham.
Purchased from Dick Smith Electronics for $279.53, likely around 1980. 
Came in the original box with documentation.
Likely a prized possession. 

The made-in-Japan CO-1303D was sold under a number of brands, including Dick Smith Electronics.

The manual was unhelpfully in Japanese, no translation.  It did come with a very old photo-copy of the instruction manual including circuit diagrams and calibration setup.

I am aware that some have a low opinion of the CO-1303D, but these basic entry level scopes provided capability for those that could not afford a HP or Tektronix.  They were simple enough that they could be modified.


The scope also came with bonus modifications.  I have read that some versions of the CO-1303 were factory fitted with a two tone signal generator for testing transmitters, especially SSB.  Mine has that modification, but it is an Electronics Today International magazine design ETI-149.    That add-on is built into the case and was itself modified to switch to a single audio tone.  Also the level potentiometer switched open the transformer centre tap to make the signal generator fully floating.     These scopes were simple and cheap enough to allow modifications.  A really useful learning opportunity not available in modern scopes.

On the rear of the scope, two additional RF connectors have been added and connected in parallel with a switched-in variable capacitance to ground.  Looks like a filter for either direct drive of the deflection plates, or Z beam intensity. 

There is no return trace blanking, so not sure if that is a fault or a "feature". 

Image comments are:

741  The box the TRIO was purchased in, including documentation.

745  Knobs and an audio socket are for the ETI 149 Dual Tone Generator the owner built into the case.

754  The insides.  It all looks original and I haven't replaced any components.

763  Testing the dual tone generator gave me an excuse to use the FFT mode of my HP5645D scope.

759 Dual tone displayed on the CO-1303D.  The CRT is clear and sharp.

746  A view of the rear panel with the extra two RF connectors.  I'll have to do some experimentation to figure out what these are for.

757  A view of the scope connected to my Dick Smith Electronics sinewave signal generator.  No ICs in this, so probably a similar vintage to the TRIO.  It was free, so by definition, it is good.  It is actually a reasonably good and useful thing.


I think I will use this scope for HV probing.  If some highly energetic electrons get into the front end, I can readily fix the damage.   This would be better than blowing up one of my "good" scopes.

I'd really like to add an IEC power socket, but I have too many other things to do.

It is a very basic Oscilloscope for 1980, & yes, the lack of retrace blanking is a fault.
 

Offline dazz1

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) 1980s? TRIO CO-1303D 75mm, 5MHz Oscilloscope
« Reply #138114 on: October 04, 2025, 11:55:31 pm »
It is a very basic Oscilloscope for 1980, & yes, the lack of retrace blanking is a fault.

Hi
I did an analysis of the circuit diagram and I can't see a connection between the sweep generator and intensity.  I can't see anything that looks like a blanking circuit.
I have attached a marked up circuit diagram.
Am I missing something?

The external Z requires +/- 25VAC to work.  I am thinking I could take an output at "A" and short "B" and "C" together to switch on blanking.  Maybe a photocoupler.  I don't know a lot about CRTs so not sure if that would work.  I am toying with the idea of a clock-scope but trace blanking would be nice.
Dazz

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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) 1980s? TRIO CO-1303D 75mm, 5MHz Oscilloscope
« Reply #138115 on: October 05, 2025, 06:27:19 am »
It is a very basic Oscilloscope for 1980, & yes, the lack of retrace blanking is a fault.

Hi
I did an analysis of the circuit diagram and I can't see a connection between the sweep generator and intensity.  I can't see anything that looks like a blanking circuit.
I have attached a marked up circuit diagram.
Am I missing something?

The external Z requires +/- 25VAC to work.  I am thinking I could take an output at "A" and short "B" and "C" together to switch on blanking.  Maybe a photocoupler.  I don't know a lot about CRTs so not sure if that would work.  I am toying with the idea of a clock-scope but trace blanking would be nice.

The only 'scopes I have seen without trace blanking were very basic things from the 1940s.
All the ones from the late 1950s on had trace blanking.

I wonder if being "Trio", it might be mainly designed for looking at AM modulation of Ham transmitters, where you could get away without blanking, with the rest of the functions just a "bonus".
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138116 on: October 05, 2025, 07:55:15 am »
I had a bit of a Google & came up with a couple of Youtube videos, the first of which,

 
confirms your point about the lack of retrace blanking, but the second one:-


refers to the Dick Smith Q1280 which, it seems is a Badge-Engineered version of the Trio CO-1303D.

Interestingly, DSE make a very definite point of the fact that their version has retrace blanking, so it may be possible to retrofit it.
 

Offline dazz1

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) 1980s? TRIO CO-1303D 75mm, 5MHz Oscilloscope
« Reply #138117 on: October 05, 2025, 09:26:43 am »
It is a very basic Oscilloscope for 1980, & yes, the lack of retrace blanking is a fault.

Hi
I did an analysis of the circuit diagram and I can't see a connection between the sweep generator and intensity.  I can't see anything that looks like a blanking circuit.
I have attached a marked up circuit diagram.
Am I missing something?

The external Z requires +/- 25VAC to work.  I am thinking I could take an output at "A" and short "B" and "C" together to switch on blanking.  Maybe a photocoupler.  I don't know a lot about CRTs so not sure if that would work.  I am toying with the idea of a clock-scope but trace blanking would be nice.

The only 'scopes I have seen without trace blanking were very basic things from the 1940s.
All the ones from the late 1950s on had trace blanking.

I wonder if being "Trio", it might be mainly designed for looking at AM modulation of Ham transmitters, where you could get away without blanking, with the rest of the functions just a "bonus".

This is clearly a bottom end scope for the amateur market where disposable income was limited.  Price mattered more than features.  If you could afford a decent scope, it wasn't going to be a Trio.  It appears that this scope, in all it's different brands, was popular in the late 1970s, early 1980s.   I understand there was a version with a factory fitted 2-tone generator for transmitter testing, in particular SSB.  I think my example came from the estate of a ham radio guy.  So yeah, entirely plausible this sold to many hams who would tolerate no trace blanking for the price.

Conceptually, I am thinking a SN74123 mono-pulse device, triggered from "A", driving an opto-coupler that shorts "B" & "C" should work. I anticipate the opto-coupler will activate too late to blank the trace.  If so, then I could add a coax cable delay line between the FET at "A" and the rest of the horizontal deflection circuit. This would blank the trace at the CRT before the return pulse reached the CRT.  That's the theory and theoretically it should work perfectly.  The problem with theory is that it routinely gets wrecked by reality. 

I'm going to have a poke around and take some measurements to test the waters. 

Dazz

Over Engineering: Why make something simple when you can make it really complicated AND get it to work?
 

Offline dazz1

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) 1980s? TRIO CO-1303D 75mm, 5MHz Oscilloscope
« Reply #138118 on: October 05, 2025, 07:52:33 pm »
Conceptually, I am thinking a SN74123 mono-pulse device, triggered from "A", driving an opto-coupler that shorts "B" & "C" should work. I anticipate the opto-coupler will activate too late to blank the trace.  If so, then I could add a coax cable delay line between the FET at "A" and the rest of the horizontal deflection circuit. This would blank the trace at the CRT before the return pulse reached the CRT.  That's the theory and theoretically it should work perfectly.  The problem with theory is that it routinely gets wrecked by reality. 

I'm going to have a poke around and take some measurements to test the waters.

So I measured the X-deflection sweep generator to measure how long the blanking pulse needs to be.    I found that the blanking pulse period is dependent on the time base selected.  On the fastest sweep range the blanking pulse needs to be 1us.  On the slowest range, 1ms.    So there is no way a simple fixed length pulse circuit will work.

The peak amplitude of the ramp also varies with sweep range, from 3.0Vpk to 3.5Vpk.  Any blanking circuit that relied on detecting the ramp voltage would fail. 

One way to do this would be to differentiate the ramp signal to detect the turning points on the ramp generator signal.  Use the positive and negative differentials to define the timing and duration of the blanking pulse.  Differentiation of a signal is inherently sensitive to noise, so there should be a low pass filter ahead of the differentiator.   

Another approach would be to replace the existing ramp generator circuit with something else that includes a blanking pulse output by design.    The performance of the existing ramp generator is decidedly mediocre at lower sweep rates, so replacing the existing ramp generator would improve the overall scope performance.

There are other options but nothing simple and easy enough to justify the time and effort.   So I have decided to abandon any further work to add return trace blanking.  I may add logic level compatible blanking to implement a scope clock if I decide to do that.

Dazz

Over Engineering: Why make something simple when you can make it really complicated AND get it to work?
 

Offline dazz1

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138119 on: October 06, 2025, 06:02:01 am »
Hi
After deciding to abandon any effort to install trace blanking, I found an old 1977 circuit that looked promising. 
I bread-boarded it, and it looks perfect.  It produces a dead straight ramp (Trio specs claim 5% error) and it produces a blanking pulse that is perfectly timed with the ramp.  It doesn't matter what frequency the circuit runs at, the blanking pulse changes duration to stay synced with the ramp. 

The scope image shows the ramp (lower) and the blanking pulse (Upper).
The other photo shows the test circuit with the circuit diagram and the source references.
This circuit is definitely doable.    I plan to use an opto-isolator to apply the blanking pulse to the HV circuit.

I have to figure out the component values, and how to integrate it with the Trio.
Dazz

Over Engineering: Why make something simple when you can make it really complicated AND get it to work?
 
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Offline rdenney

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) 1980s? TRIO CO-1303D 75mm, 5MHz Oscilloscope
« Reply #138120 on: October 06, 2025, 01:17:34 pm »
Hi

Found a classic Trio CO-1303D oscilloscope on the local on-line auction site (much better than e-bay).
From clues that came with the scope, this is from the estate of a long-time radio ham.
Purchased from Dick Smith Electronics for $279.53, likely around 1980. 
Came in the original box with documentation.
Likely a prized possession. 

The made-in-Japan CO-1303D was sold under a number of brands, including Dick Smith Electronics.

The manual was unhelpfully in Japanese, no translation.  It did come with a very old photo-copy of the instruction manual including circuit diagrams and calibration setup.

I am aware that some have a low opinion of the CO-1303D, but these basic entry level scopes provided capability for those that could not afford a HP or Tektronix.  They were simple enough that they could be modified.


The scope also came with bonus modifications.  I have read that some versions of the CO-1303 were factory fitted with a two tone signal generator for testing transmitters, especially SSB.  Mine has that modification, but it is an Electronics Today International magazine design ETI-149.    That add-on is built into the case and was itself modified to switch to a single audio tone.  Also the level potentiometer switched open the transformer centre tap to make the signal generator fully floating.     These scopes were simple and cheap enough to allow modifications.  A really useful learning opportunity not available in modern scopes.

On the rear of the scope, two additional RF connectors have been added and connected in parallel with a switched-in variable capacitance to ground.  Looks like a filter for either direct drive of the deflection plates, or Z beam intensity. 

There is no return trace blanking, so not sure if that is a fault or a "feature". 

Image comments are:

741  The box the TRIO was purchased in, including documentation.

745  Knobs and an audio socket are for the ETI 149 Dual Tone Generator the owner built into the case.

754  The insides.  It all looks original and I haven't replaced any components.

763  Testing the dual tone generator gave me an excuse to use the FFT mode of my HP5645D scope.

759 Dual tone displayed on the CO-1303D.  The CRT is clear and sharp.

746  A view of the rear panel with the extra two RF connectors.  I'll have to do some experimentation to figure out what these are for.

757  A view of the scope connected to my Dick Smith Electronics sinewave signal generator.  No ICs in this, so probably a similar vintage to the TRIO.  It was free, so by definition, it is good.  It is actually a reasonably good and useful thing.


I think I will use this scope for HV probing.  If some highly energetic electrons get into the front end, I can readily fix the damage.   This would be better than blowing up one of my "good" scopes.

I'd really like to add an IEC power socket, but I have too many other things to do.

It is a very basic Oscilloscope for 1980, & yes, the lack of retrace blanking is a fault.

Ownership by a radio amateur is a clue, it seems to me. These would make a very nice station monitor, which is a narrow application of a scope, rather than the versatility needed in bench test equipment. Station monitors were really good for making sure a station is not, for example, overmodulating the signal on the carrier.

It should be noted that Kenwood/Trio was and still is a maker of transceivers for amateur radio. I have one that dates from the early 80's that still works really quite well, except that the receiver front end lacks the strength to avoid fundamental overload from strong nearby signals.

Kenwood/Trio made more versatile scopes for bench use, but I've never seen one with their brand on it. I have a B&K 1474, however, that was made by them and it has all the usual features one would find on a general-purpose Tektronix portable of the era (70's). It's bandwidth is 30 MHz, so it's good for audio and HF radio but not for modern communications use cases. By the standards of the 70's, these were competent scopes for technicians on a budget, similar to the Tektronix T93x series. Mine needs the application of about five cans of DeOxit at the moment, and it's in the fixit pile. But when I jiggle the controls just right, it works fine.

Rick "has a Heathkit station monitor that is similarly sparse" Denney
 

Offline Shimonu

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138121 on: October 06, 2025, 08:46:35 pm »
I've ordered myself a Systron Donner M107, after seeing it on Ebay and showing more or less perfect output I couldn't get it out of my mind. It was nearby geographically so the shipping was very cheap for the size and weight and don't have to any extra tax or import fee. Now I have to wait several days for it to arrive, GAH!

There's also the slight issue of not having that much space on the desk but I think that should be a pleasant problem to solve.

I'm so excited to compare it to every device capable of measuring voltage!  :box:
 

Offline dazz1

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) 1980s? TRIO CO-1303D 75mm, 5MHz Oscilloscope
« Reply #138122 on: October 06, 2025, 10:19:22 pm »

Ownership by a radio amateur is a clue, it seems to me. These would make a very nice station monitor, which is a narrow application of a scope, rather than the versatility needed in bench test equipment. Station monitors were really good for making sure a station is not, for example, overmodulating the signal on the carrier.

It should be noted that Kenwood/Trio was and still is a maker of transceivers for amateur radio. I have one that dates from the early 80's that still works really quite well, except that the receiver front end lacks the strength to avoid fundamental overload from strong nearby signals.

Kenwood/Trio made more versatile scopes for bench use, but I've never seen one with their brand on it. I have a B&K 1474, however, that was made by them and it has all the usual features one would find on a general-purpose Tektronix portable of the era (70's). It's bandwidth is 30 MHz, so it's good for audio and HF radio but not for modern communications use cases. By the standards of the 70's, these were competent scopes for technicians on a budget, similar to the Tektronix T93x series. Mine needs the application of about five cans of DeOxit at the moment, and it's in the fixit pile. But when I jiggle the controls just right, it works fine.

Rick "has a Heathkit station monitor that is similarly sparse" Denney

I am confident the first owner was a radio ham.  The documentation in the box included letters, articles and design for a "Low-cost spectrum analyzer" by WA2PZO.  Article 1986  by  Robert M Richardson  W4UCH, New York.  Based on a TV tuner.
It seems likely this Trio was used as a station monitor.    The two connector mod on the back (purpose unknown) point to monitoring.  The connectors are wired to allow a thru signal.  The knob selects capacitors, like a filter.  It is connected to the scope sync/external input. 

I didn't actually buy the Trio to use. I thought it would be good to show off alongside my 1950s valve GEC Miniscope.  One of the nice things about both of those scopes is no fans.  The other nice feature is that I can turn them on, tweak some knobs, and get the job done.  I don't have to navigate through a tree of menu screens.  If I have something more demanding than 5MHz, I have my big boys scopes and the spectrum analyzer to deal to them. 

Rationally the obvious thing to do is toss the Trio in the dumpster and buy a 20MHz scope to get better performance for the same price.  I never claimed to be rational. 
Dazz

Over Engineering: Why make something simple when you can make it really complicated AND get it to work?
 
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Offline rdenney

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138123 on: October 07, 2025, 02:01:11 pm »
I received the Agilent 54622A that I just bought. What a neat little scope! It has some of the goodies of a digital scope but all of the ease-of-use of an analog scope. (There is a question about FFT settings down below--skip to that bit if you like.)

I've removed the front panel and gave the encoders a good bath. The only one that was really dodgy was the time-base encoder for Channel 2, but I cleaned them all. The scope was spotless on the inside, and I found a sticker that identified it as being the property of South Dakota State University, so it was apparently an EE lab device. The encoders looked sealed, but they have a gap to the internals right under the emerging PCB that holds the solder leads, and it's easy to inject IPA into that area to flush out dust. I used IPA rather than DeOxit, because these are optical encoders and the object is to be clean. I then put just a drop of clock oil on the shafts to lubricate the rotation. I also cleaned all the gold pads under the pushbuttons (though they were already clean and reliably functional) and cleaned the carbon pads on the buttons themselves with a Q-tip and IPA. All works perfectly now. I'm leaving it open for the moment until I source a replacement for the PCB battery, and until I fire up the lathe and machine a replacement shaft for the intensity control. (The knob for that was broken off and rolling around in the bottom of the box--very typical of these scopes.)

Everything works perfectly and the scope passes all its self tests without comment (except that I did not hook up a printer).

I spent a good couple of hours working my way through the FFT function. Here's what I found:

1. The noise floor in default mode is about -60 dB, which is no bueno. But the scope supports high-resolution mode, which with the firmware revision this scope has (dated 2001), is the product of which time scale one selects on the horizontal control knob, which in turn affects the sampling rate. To get the sampling rate to its highest 200MS/s, one must select a time base (i.e. >200uS) that allows 100 KHz of displayed bandwidth--it selects the sampling rate based on the Nyquist frequency. When I adjusted the FFT span to 20 KHz (typical for some audio applications), I get a 40 mS/s sampling rate. That's 2000 points--it's standard window for FFT.

2. In addition to this, one needs to apply averaging, which is on the acquisition menu. Even with a sample rate of 1 (which applies smoothing), the noise floor will drop at least 30 dB. To get the full 12-bit resolution in addition to that, set the average to 256 samples and the highest sampling rate. That slows the display down quite a bit but it's completely usable for measuring steady-state signals.

3. Here's where I started to get confused. Once the display noise floor was down below about -90 dB, or averaging about -100 dB (which requires changing the vertical scale to 20 dB per division), I noticed a range of harmonic distortion.



The display spans 20KHz, 20 dB per division, and the 1KHz test signal is from the oscillator of my HP 8903b distortion analyzer. The 8903 believes that signal to have a SINAD of -96.49 dB, but I'm seeing harmonic peaks at -60 dB in this display (with a full-scale signal at -7 dB). The 8903 is set to 1V output, but with a source impedance of 600 ohms. I get accurate voltage displays on the scope when I use a 600-ohm terminator, but no other difference in the display--still about -55 dB from signal peak to harmonic peak). The voltage reads low with a plain coax/BNC cable connection, which probably has a nominal impedance of 50 ohms. I have the horizontal time reference set to 100 uS, which is 5mS per division. That gives me 50 full waveforms on the trace display, with the vertical voltage range set to nearly (but not quite) fill the screen vertically. The display is also showing an integral number of waveforms on the trace display.

Just to confirm that the 8903 wasn't a little too impressed with itself, I switched the source oscillator to my Tektronix CFG250, which specifies 1% THD. The 8903 measured it at -45 dB SINAD, which is right on spec. The scope also showed the harmonic peaks to be right around -45 dB from the signal peak, which indicates agreement. But as soon as the signal quality of the source improved to better than -60 dB THD, those overtone peaks just never got any smaller.

I realize that asking a scope to produce a sensitive FFT is asking a cat to do a dog's job (the dog being a proper spectrum analyzer). But it seems like something must be making those peaks. Could that be the signal amplifiers in the scope revealing themselves?

(Yes, I know I can use the notched "monitor" output of the 8903 to just look at the harmonics, with substantial amplification.)

Conclusion: The UI of the 54622 is that perfect blend between features and complexity, it seems to me. My Tektronix T934 has all the basic controls of an analog scope, but no math functions and no storage. My Rigol DHO804 has all the features one wants in a modern scope, but some of those features require so much touch-screen activity that it's more annoyance than usefulness. I have fat fingers and large hands, and the screen is too small for all that touch control. I find I have to hold the Rigol in my left hand so that I can read the screen and manipulate it with my right hand. It's easy to hold, but that's not the point. I am going to put a touch-screen monitor on at some point, which I think will address those issues. The Agilent has the features I really like that are only two or three button presses away, and all the buttons are tactile. In the general contention between features and UI complexity, the Agilent is much closer to where I am.

Rick "loving it but dreaming that the FFT might show distortion products down to the noise floor" Denney
 

Offline salvagedcircuitry

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    • salvagedcircuitry
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #138124 on: October 07, 2025, 06:02:01 pm »
Well, I hit the thermal imaging jackpot fellas!

I grabbed a broken Flir E75 for $400 and repaired it relatively quickly.  ;D
The description stated it suffered from a severe case of BSOD-itis and would not work normally at all.




When I first received it, I tried charging it via usb but no battery meter showed up on the display. After a few minutes, I held the power button in and was able to start the E75. I went into menu and reset the camera. I also reseated the lens for good measure. The BSOD persisted. I took a closer look at the lens, the lens contact and the bayonet. The camera was dropped as the tripod foot was clearly snapped off. However, that seems to be relatively common with this design as I've seen a few on ebay with the broken foot. I was more concerned if the lens mount mechanism was damaged. Luckily, the lens bayonet was not damaged and the lens seated securely.
I removed the battery and well...

Why it's a good 'ol case of Turtles All The Way Down!  :-DD

The previous owner was clearly overzealous and sloppily shoved the battery up the clacker and bent some pins.  :scared:


Gingerly separating the pins inside the cavity and on the battery terminal did the trick. I was sweating bullets bending the pins with plastic spudgers on the camera side as I had no idea what connector flir used on the board or if it was still available.

She'll be right!


Luckily, it was a winner-winner, chicken-dinner!  :box:


What a bobby dezler! This thing is truly a beast. A lot bigger than the E4/E5/E6/E8



To celebrate, I added some free CAD files for anyone with an:
E53 / E75 / E85 / E95
E54 / E76 / E86 / E96 

Replacement front cap:
https://www.printables.com/model/1437875-flir-exx-series-e53-e75-e85-e95-thermal-camera-len

USB-c cable support bracket
https://www.printables.com/model/1437960-flir-exx-series-e53-e75-e85-e95-thermal-camera-usb

modified handle 1/4-20 bracket
https://www.printables.com/model/1437972-flir-ex-e4-e5-e6-e8-and-exx-series-e53-e75-e85-e95





Now to stop pretending I'm an auzzie and hack this puppy to an E95!  8)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2025, 09:04:21 pm by salvagedcircuitry »
 
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