Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[neo]

That is a cool multimeter.

[Cubdriver]

Nice, bitseeker.  That's the first time I've seen one of those 'live'.  I like those dot displays.  Great find!

-Pat

[bitseeker]

Thanks! It was from an estate sale. Got the operation/service manual, too, which really made it impossible to pass up. Now, if only it had more of those cool dot LED digits to fill all that space to the right.

[Cubdriver]

And in another note, a somewhat rough looking 3735A counter (sans hp badge, of course  ) has just joined the fold here at casa de cub.  Pics will follow when I get the energy and inclination to take some.  It appears to have some issues at first brush.

And as for your new meter, getting the service manual certainly sweetens the pot!  Excellent.  You can't beat the original printed HP literature.

-Pat

[tggzzz]

I wonder which subset of TEA afflicts me. I already have

• too many old Tek/HP scopes (only one 465 parts mule), several of which I need to sell.
• too many HP/Solartron/Fluke DVMs, but I'm only going to sell one basket case (mainly for the Fischer connector and lead, and the Panaplex displays). Yes, I have 5 assorted voltage "standards". Definitely the "too many clocks" syndrome.
• an old HP530x 6 digit frequency counter, with the nice dot LED display.

and I really daren't buy any more "big" equipment such as Tek 24x5s, and really must stop scanning auction sites.

So I'm going cold turkey by building a 6/7/8 digit reciprocal frequency counter from scratch, using software to count the edges on a £10 XMOS StartKit dev board. The only hardware (other than the processor and its USB connection) is input protection diodes and resistors, plus an optional LCD and two switches. So far it works with f_in and f_ref between 0.2 Hz and 15MHz on each input, and uses a PC/USB as the display mechanism. Currently I'm using the HP5400a as a 10MHz frequency standard, but I've ordered a GPS module as a 1pps reference, and will probably use a TXCO as the principal frequency reference.

So, my question is "does homebrew count as a form of TEA?"

[Brumby]

So, my question is "does homebrew count as a form of TEA?"

I would have to say: Yes.  Possibly an associated category, but certainly within the general scope.

If you then find it makes its way onto the test bench, then that underlines its value as test gear and legitimises it as such.

When you then feel the urge to build up something else, then that confirms the addiction component.



It is always good to broaden your horizons. 

[bsalai]

It's time someone called you guys on this. The title of this thread is very misleading. It suggests that help is available here. Clearly not.
I suggest Test Equipment Enablers.
Can I join?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brumby]

Certainly you can join!

It won't take you long to understand the wisdom of the thread title... 

[tggzzz]

So, my question is "does homebrew count as a form of TEA?"

I would have to say: Yes.  Possibly an associated category, but certainly within the general scope.

If you then find it makes its way onto the test bench, then that underlines its value as test gear and legitimises it as such.

Recursively so: the reason for choosing to make a reciprocal frequency counter is to test the PLL inside my Solartron 7081. Viewed like that, getting to know the virtues of the XMOS processors is icing on the cake

While the HP5300 has crude form of a "ratio" measurement, all it really does is count the pulses on one input during a single cycle of the other input. My reciprocal frequency counter will measure the true ratio over 0.2,2,20 seconds. I'm even wondering if I can arrange for there to be zero dead time between measurements; doesn't seem impossible.

It is always good to broaden your horizons. 

The only time I'll stop doing that is when I'm dead!

[xrunner]

It suggests that help is available here. Clearly not.

It depends on what your definition of "help" is. 

[Brumby]

Recursively so:

Recursion.  Oh dear .... recursion .....

Down a rabbit hole, down a rabbit hole, down a rabbit hole.....


You can lose all sense of how far down you are.



Welcome to TEA!

[GreyWoolfe]

-from tggzz--Yes, I have 5 assorted voltage "standards". Definitely the "too many clocks" syndrome.

Does this mean you're a member of TEA and VNA-Volt Nuttery Anonymous?

[tggzzz]

-from tggzz--Yes, I have 5 assorted voltage "standards". Definitely the "too many clocks" syndrome.

Does this mean you're a member of TEA and VNA-Volt Nuttery Anonymous?

No. Absolutely not. Never. Under no circumstances whatsoever would I ever joins the Yahoo voltnuts or timeouts groups. That way lies lunacy and penury.

Fortunately I've avoided penury: so far the voltage sources cost a total of £35, and even the Solartron only cost £75 (plus £25 for an input socket and filter). But now I'm spending money on time sources I don't want to think about lunacy.

[smurph]

At the risk of a potentially very stupid question that connector is GPIB, correct? How would i use it? Could i use to log data to my laptop, for instance?

Looks like it to me.  GPIB/HPIB has been around since the dark ages.  It was around before anyone thought about using it to connect to a PC.  To use it, one needs some more TE related equipment.  There are lots of USB -> GPIB controllers out there.  Most around $100.00 on the 'bay.  But be careful!  They are all different and some of them require arcane drivers and such to operate.  K04BB has a nice write-up on it:  http://www.ko4bb.com/Test_Equipment/GPIB.php

Steve

[tggzzz]

GPIB/HPIB has been around since the dark ages.  It was around before anyone thought about using it to connect to a PC.

It was around long before IBM's first PC, and many PCs used the HPIB/IEEE-488 interface before IBM's first PC arrived. You could start to find more by looking at https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/commodore-pet-and-the-ieee-488-bus/

Be aware that many HP calculators were purchased to control HPIB/IEEE-488 instruments and peripherals. Here's the first one I used: http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=149

[alm]

KO4BB's page is quite old. Does not matter that much for GPIB itself: most of the instruments only implement IEEE 488.1 and some 488.2, which was ratified in the early nineties (?). But for controller there are several other options, like affordable used National Instruments (NI) GPIB-USB adapters, semi-reputable clone Agilent USB adapters by Beiming, less reputable clone Agilent adapter and I believe there was some discussion in the USA calibration club topic about an even cheaper one.

A major deciding factor is what software you want to use. If you want to use commercial software like made by the test equipment vendors (e.g. BenchVue) or Labview, you are pretty much limited to NI or Agilent (and possibly the Agilent clones). Though I find it highly unlikely that any current Agilent software would support that counter. Community software (e.g. the software made by John Miles) will often support the Prologix adapters in addition or even instead of the industry-standard stuff. This is because for a number of years the Prologix adapters were pretty much the only affordable ones. If you develop your own software, then it depends on the libraries / frameworks you want to use, but you can make do with either.

For a laptop you either want a USB-GPIB interface or an Ethernet-GPIB interfaces.

[neo]

KO4BB's page is quite old. Does not matter that much for GPIB itself: most of the instruments only implement IEEE 488.1 and some 488.2, which was ratified in the early nineties (?). But for controller there are several other options, like affordable used National Instruments (NI) GPIB-USB adapters, semi-reputable clone Agilent USB adapters by Beiming, less reputable clone Agilent adapter and I believe there was some discussion in the USA calibration club topic about an even cheaper one.

A major deciding factor is what software you want to use. If you want to use commercial software like made by the test equipment vendors (e.g. BenchVue) or Labview, you are pretty much limited to NI or Agilent (and possibly the Agilent clones). Though I find it highly unlikely that any current Agilent software would support that counter. Community software (e.g. the software made by John Miles) will often support the Prologix adapters in addition or even instead of the industry-standard stuff. This is because for a number of years the Prologix adapters were pretty much the only affordable ones. If you develop your own software, then it depends on the libraries / frameworks you want to use, but you can make do with either.

For a laptop you either want a USB-GPIB interface or an Ethernet-GPIB interfaces.

I think i may very well be in over my head (or at least in over my wallet) when it comes to gpib.

[bitseeker]

With most forms of TEA (or TEE, for bsalai), dipping a toe in minimizes feelings of shock or panic when venturing into new areas such as GPIB.

If you only need to interface with one device at a time, you can get started with very little investment in the form of an Arduino UNO with the appropriate plug and this firmware: http://egirland.blogspot.com/2014/03/arduino-uno-as-usb-to-gpib-controller.html. That page also describes how to put together the hardware. Of course, as with any DIY project, your mileage may vary when it comes to electrical compatibility with any particular instrument, but most reports I've heard thus far were positive.

If you need to connect more devices on the bus or have a finicky device, then get a GPIB interface that has the requisite driver chips (low-cost ones often don't) to ensure proper signal integrity.

[neo]

With most forms of TEA (or TEE, for bsalai), dipping a toe in minimizes feelings of shock or panic when venturing into new areas such as GPIB.

If you only need to interface with one device at a time, you can get started with very little investment in the form of an Arduino UNO with the appropriate plug and this firmware: http://egirland.blogspot.com/2014/03/arduino-uno-as-usb-to-gpib-controller.html. That page also describes how to put together the hardware. Of course, as with any DIY project, your mileage may vary when it comes to electrical compatibility with any particular instrument, but most reports I've heard thus far were positive.

If you need to connect more devices on the bus or have a finicky device, then get a GPIB interface that has the requisite driver chips (low-cost ones often don't) to ensure proper signal integrity.

Maybe the best course of action would be to wait until i have more than one GPIB device and buy a controller. Programming anything goes way over my head and i have dipped my toe in that pool.

[Berni]

Because i have a lot of old GPIB only gear i eventualy decided to get a GPIB to ethernet bridge. The only issue is that the old ones you find on ebay for cheap are so old that they are nearly unusable now. They use old Base10 ethernet, sometimes over coax cable even and use protocols so outdated it might have issues getting a IP on a modern LAN. On top of it only software for win 98 supports them.

Eventually i found a reasonable deal on a more modern BASE100 Agilent one. The latest one is gigabit ethernet but why would you need that with how slow GPIB is. The main point is that its supported by the latest AgilentIO software so you just enter its IP and a virtual GPIB port shows right up.

I still keep my old Agilent USB to GPIB dongle that went for really cheep on ebay some years ago, its useful for just quickly talking to a pice of gear on the bench during a repair or something.

[xrunner]

BUT ... I found the little matching knob on Keysight's parts site for $1.99. I thought (stupidly) should be easy enough to order that. The story is though - the HELL I had to go through to order it. Deserves a separate post ... 

The saga is ended, the knob has arrived. My life is now complete.

Check out their address - Garden of the Gods Road. 

Quite the address for such a high tech company I'd say.

[smurph]

BUT ... I found the little matching knob on Keysight's parts site for $1.99. I thought (stupidly) should be easy enough to order that. The story is though - the HELL I had to go through to order it. Deserves a separate post ... 

The saga is ended, the knob has arrived. My life is now complete.

Check out their address - Garden of the Gods Road. 

Quite the address for such a high tech company I'd say.

Nice!  Except we all know your level of addiction now because, obviously, you will go through the depths of hell to get your fix! 

Steve

[Brumby]

What about the rest of us....?

We wait for the photo of the knob fitted to its host - and we nod with a smile.



And we don't consider that strange in any way .... 

[smurph]

What about the rest of us....?

We wait for the photo of the knob fitted to its host - and we nod with a smile.



And we don't consider that strange in any way .... 

You nailed it.  Not strange at all.  But rather comforting.  It is validation that we are not alone and that there is possibly someone with an addiction worse than ours.   

[VK5RC]

Congratulations on arrival of 'the knob', may all prosper who twiddle it!