Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-four-whistles-31628

'tis the season for such frivolous things; a Christmas Classic.   

Printing on both machines in vertical and horizontal orientation to see which works better.

mnem

[VK5RC]

For me the quandary is should I 'preventatively' replace IEC filters in old gear.
I am not sure the durability of the product I would use to replace the old and functional part is worth the time/effort /risk of damage to the equipment.
 I have about 60 or so bits of HP type equipment from the 1980-90s that probably has IEC /EMI filters (I haven't checked them all) and my failure rate seems to be one every couple of years. Some of the gear requires serious dismantling - something I am reluctant to do unless I really have to. My current strategy is to have a supervised switch on every few months.
Rob

Get yourself an insulation resistance tester and regularly check the insulation between live, neutral and earth. This should help weed out those IEC filters with RIFA capacitors that are not long for this world. This is most effective on Y capacitors but less so on X capacitors, which usually have a paralleled discharge resistor. An X capacitor generally has to be really leaky before it shows up in an insulation resistance test.
 
I regularly check my instruments and record the results. I can see year by year the deterioration in insulation resistance even for equipment that has sat on the shelf the whole time. Mostly, I see Schaffner filters going leaky over time but I also see a significant number of TDK filters going bad as well.

That is a very useful tip excuse to acquire an insulation resistance tester, thanks
Rob

Fixed it for you! 

Absolutely!

You know how there's a ton of Youtube videos out there bemoaning how most modern capacitor testers don't have any high voltage leakage testing functions?  An insulation tester performs exactly that function so there's another reason to get an insulation tester.  Everyone should have an insulation tester.  No home is complete without one!

I bet eBay searches for insulation testers are going to nudge up now.  The Keysight store usually has a few.  That's where I got mine.

Do you think I am an amateur TE addict, of course I have an insulation tester (keysight) and a capacitor leakage tester (home brew). Hehe!
I think the limitation may be where the machine is 'always on' - powering crystal ovens etc and not isolated by the 'on-off switch'  - isn't even just saying that so 1980s!  Boy do I hate soft on-off buttons!
Rob

[Neomys Sapiens]

Hi,
The Tektronix 834 pops up regularly on epay and usually go for very low prices, even when they are in excellent condition. Have they any use these days other than for parts? And are there any parts inside worth salvaging? I was considering getting one just to replace the power button cap on my 2465, but it would nice to know what else is inside that I could use. Does anyone here have experience with these?

McBryce.

Depends mainly whether serial communications do still occur in your world. Mine is still full of it. Starting with GPS receivers, stepper controls, text displays...and so on.
If I was not well set with both a smaller device and a very fine software solution, I would consider the Tek, especially at the prices they are seen at.
But I can't help with the manual, especially as I assume that You have already searched the usual sites.

[Neomys Sapiens]

You know how there's a ton of Youtube videos out there bemoaning how most modern capacitor testers don't have any high voltage leakage testing functions?  An insulation tester performs exactly that function so there's another reason to get an insulation tester.  Everyone should have an insulation tester.  No home is complete without one!

I bet eBay searches for insulation testers are going to nudge up now.  The Keysight store usually has a few.  That's where I got mine.

I have a crank Megger, and was second bidder on a Gossen Metrawatt Metrahit Telco-style (for twisted pairs and such) insulation tester multimeter this weekend. Which of course annoys me, but that's how things are.

Very useful that crank machine.

Insulation testers?
1.)  Analogue PAT tester (Metrawatt)
2.)  Very fine Megger(digital)
3.)  AOIP insulation tester for 1000V/2000V/5000V test voltage.

But neither their posession nor the Philips RLC meter do diminuish the attraction, which the Sencore capacitor analysers exert on me, as they do have the abovementioned capability.

[Neomys Sapiens]

People who have broken phones are on monthly contracts and couldn't afford them in the first place.

Happens to cars as well.

Finding deals on things you shouldn't be able to afford is part of TEA life. It also means repairs become relevant. I love having better than sensible kit.

Good point right there. This is mostly why I love TEA. My workshop full of stuff I shouldn't have.

Now if you would excuse me, I'm going to use my 2Ghz scope to try to repair the Anritsu VNA I have laying around 

(Sorry, I'm like 10 pages behind)

Yet again today I took some of my personal TE (specialist old aerospace kit) to work to sort a problem on a million dollar project........

Uhuh.
Currently in my company's lab from my stock:
Anritsu Radio Installation tester
TekMeter 565
Tek Function generator
Tek Time-to-voltage converter
Field Strength meter
Resistor decade
2 Multimeters
1 Step attenuator
and a lot of tools, adaptors, and other accessories.

[Specmaster]

@mnementh Point is that not everyone wants or indeed is that vain that they have to be sporting the very top of the food chain mobile phone, or indeed has the green backs to afford that level of phone in the 1st instance. I certainly have never been able to afford that, and I still have all the phones that I personally purchased and guess what they all still work perfectly as phones, the only thing is that a lot of the apps are no longer supported by the latest OS. Apple indeed suffers from the self same problem in this respect and also within the same time frame, so you gain zilch by buying expensive in the first place.

 I agree as I mentioned in an earlier post that the USB-C is a better system as is indeed the Lightning plug, no argument from here.

But after years of selling phones with a charger to suddenly switch to selling them with NO charger is dumb as potatoes. I know lots of people who do not have drawers full of old chargers simply because a lot of things come with bespoke power packs with the cable permanently terminated at the wall wart and the other end terminated in a plug that fits the associated equipment. The only other USB wall wart they own is the one that came with their previous phone and also intend to sell with the rest of the gear that came with the phone and also in the original box with all the documentation.

So come on, let's cut the Apple adoration crap believing that whatever they do is perfectly OK when it is not. I admire Apple for attempting to be very green here, but it is also being extremely arrogant at the same time. The least they could do if they wish to go down this route of assuming that every buyer has heaps of chargers lying around is to make it abundantly clear that the phone does not have a supplied charger, and they also could supply an adaptor to go from USB-A to USB-C to give new owners a fighting chance of being able to recharge their phones, yes it may not then support fast charge, but at the user could charge at normal speed. 

[bd139]

To be fair they did actually heavily point out there is no charger on their web site, on Amazon and in the store. Just buy a charger then  . Inflation adjusted even if you buy a charger and earphones it’s £16 cheaper than it was 2 years ago.

Regarding vanity I tend to agree. I bought my 12 because it was a shiny toy and I like technology to play with . What I find irritating is conspicuous consumption where the buyer derives no value from an item other than people seeing they own it.

Now one thing that has pissed me off is a colleague bought an Apple Watch SE and found that has a USB-A on it. They swapped it for a USB-C without arguing at Westfield though so worth asking when you buy...

[BU508A]

As for the wall warts:

a few months ago I've bought at Voelkner in Germany some of those Eaxus USB chargers
because Voelkner offered them for 7.50 EUR / device.

They can deliver up to 3A @ 5V and they are showing alternately voltage and the current drawn.
I can charge at the same time my iPad 4 and my phone (Sony XPeria Z3) and both devices
are consuming then around 2.5A. The Eaxus isn't getting significantly warmer.

[Specmaster]

To be fair they did actually heavily point out there is no charger on their web site, on Amazon and in the store. Just buy a charger then  . Inflation adjusted even if you buy a charger and earphones it’s £16 cheaper than it was 2 years ago.

Regarding vanity I tend to agree. I bought my 12 because it was a shiny toy and I like technology to play with . What I find irritating is conspicuous consumption where the buyer derives no value from an item other than people seeing they own it.

Now one thing that has pissed me off is a colleague bought an Apple Watch SE and found that has a USB-A on it. They swapped it for a USB-C without arguing at Westfield though so worth asking when you buy...

Firstly, I have been looking at the Apple website, and you have to dig really deep to discover that you do not get the charger or headphones with it, and like the actual packaging, it is in the smallest of fonts and I wager that the vast majority of buyers do not go beyond the headline points that they make a big issue about in their advertising. My son brought his from Argos, and they also point out that you need to source a charger unless you have your old one (which he does, but it is A and C type), and beside which he plans to sell his old phone to offset the cost of the new one, and when he does it will be sold complete in its original box as it retains more residual value that way.

I think that if like my sons, who are anal about buying the official bits and bobs, the charger is some £19 extra, as are the leads, so if you wanted both thats £38, not sure about the headphones.

Apple missed a real trick here they could have shouted about it their green credentials just as they shout about how it shares the A13 processor from the iPhone 12, the fact they didn't suggests that they were unsure if the public really wanted that. 

As to the vanity, I'm totally with you here, I love shiny new technology myself but sometimes feel under awed by it all. Its like some people buy their cars purely on its appearance and not on what the car does for them on a day by day basis of sitting in the driver's seat. As you correctly said, the shiny exterior is seen by others more than the owner. 

[Specmaster]

As for the wall warts:

a few months ago I've bought at Voelkner in Germany some of those Eaxus USB chargers
because Voelkner offered them for 7.50 EUR / device.

They can deliver up to 3A @ 5V and they are showing alternately voltage and the current drawn.
I can charge at the same time my iPad 4 and my phone (Sony XPeria Z3) and both devices
are consuming then around 2.5A. The Eaxus isn't getting significantly warmer.

Yep, I totally agree with you about such wall warts / chargers, I'm a big fan of them because they not only allow me to charge all of my various bits of kit at the same time from a single power socket, but at Christmastime, they also allow me to plug in my many modified ex battery powered lights to a single point and thus make a massive saving on batteries being the Scrooge that I am 

The white one claims to be able to supply 8A across 5 USB-A outlets, the black states 4A across the same number of outlets and I have a number of these that I purchased specifically for the stated purpose above. The black ones also have a digital display that reads volts and the current being drawn.

[0culus]

So I scored an HP 428B clip on DC milliammeter. Guessing it will arrive after Christmas, but I'm ok with that. It's a really nifty little box.

[VK5RC]

Finally got the IEC EMI filter for the hp 54120A, put it in, fired it up. All good.
But putting the other gear back I noticed a tell-tale brown smudge on another bit of gear, more rifa magic! Unfortunately this is out of one of those combined IEC filter, fuse holder and mains voltage selector, those buggers are AUD$50. Oh well you can't take it with you. 🙄

[mansaxel]

So I scored an HP 428B clip on DC milliammeter. Guessing it will arrive after Christmas, but I'm ok with that. It's a really nifty little box.

Complete with probe, I assume. Yes, it is a very cool item. One of the last valve driven pieces in the -hp- line, built into the 80s. Don't think they sold very many, then, but ISTR the 428b was used in a MAD sensing system for submarine detection, and military systems having a slightly elongated service life in peace time might have helped there.

Congratulations from a fellow member of the 428b owners club!

[mnementh]

@mnementh Point is that not everyone wants or indeed is that vain that they have to be sporting the very top of the food chain mobile phone, or indeed has the green backs to afford that level of phone in the 1st instance. I certainly have never been able to afford that, and I still have all the phones that I personally purchased and guess what they all still work perfectly as phones, the only thing is that a lot of the apps are no longer supported by the latest OS. Apple indeed suffers from the self same problem in this respect and also within the same time frame, so you gain zilch by buying expensive in the first place.

 I agree as I mentioned in an earlier post that the USB-C is a better system as is indeed the Lightning plug, no argument from here.

But after years of selling phones with a charger to suddenly switch to selling them with NO charger is dumb as potatoes. I know lots of people who do not have drawers full of old chargers simply because a lot of things come with bespoke power packs with the cable permanently terminated at the wall wart and the other end terminated in a plug that fits the associated equipment. The only other USB wall wart they own is the one that came with their previous phone and also intend to sell with the rest of the gear that came with the phone and also in the original box with all the documentation.

So come on, let's cut the Apple adoration crap believing that whatever they do is perfectly OK when it is not. I admire Apple for attempting to be very green here, but it is also being extremely arrogant at the same time. The least they could do if they wish to go down this route of assuming that every buyer has heaps of chargers lying around is to make it abundantly clear that the phone does not have a supplied charger, and they also could supply an adaptor to go from USB-A to USB-C to give new owners a fighting chance of being able to recharge their phones, yes it may not then support fast charge, but at the user could charge at normal speed. 

Number one: give me a fucking break; I'm no Apple fanboi and you know it. I'm also no Android fanboi either. They all suck. What you have to decide with Apple is whether your time has actual value to you. If it does, then you quickly realize they offer you the opportunity to trade money for time out of your life. To me, that's always gonna be a good deal, unless I just don't have the money.

That's why I put up with the cost of an iPad, but will not buy an iPwn; they cost too much for what you get. A regular iPud, OTOH, is in most cases a fucking bargain. The flagship models with all the "I'm gonna be better than your desktop and your laptop all in one" shit built in... fuck no. 

I find that very hard to believe. I find it very hard to believe that they did not try to sell them the charger and/or cable they need with the phone at any  Apple Store, either online or brick & mortar. While I was waiting at the Gebius Bar for them to look up my unit, there was a yuppie getting his Airpods replaced; and even on a replacement the associate made sure he had the correct cables and charger, and asked if he needed a spare before he got up to leave. It's selling the add-ons that makes their Christmas bonus, for glob's sake.

Sold by the carrier... ehhh, half the time they're fucking morons and you'll be lucky to get a phone that actually makes a call the first time you go in. Don't think you can blame Apple for that.

mnem
 

[0culus]

So I scored an HP 428B clip on DC milliammeter. Guessing it will arrive after Christmas, but I'm ok with that. It's a really nifty little box.

Complete with probe, I assume. Yes, it is a very cool item. One of the last valve driven pieces in the -hp- line, built into the 80s. Don't think they sold very many, then, but ISTR the 428b was used in a MAD sensing system for submarine detection, and military systems having a slightly elongated service life in peace time might have helped there.

Congratulations from a fellow member of the 428b owners club!

Yep, probe included! Interesting about some of the "use cases"; any documentation about that? I'd love to read up. I did surmise that it essentially works like a flux gate compass. I think it will be very valuable to have, since modern clamp meters tend to be crap at low current. 

[0culus]

...I'll probably never find one, but the optional magnetometer probe looks to be a pretty useful thing too.

[med6753]

It's good to see everyone on their Christmas holiday doing TEA stuff and relaxing and in general taking a break from the rat race. Welcome to my world. 

But somehow we gotta get bd off that treadmill at least for a while. 

I wake up and find this in my in box. This is one of the many reasons I do biz with Mouser. They may not be the cheapest but they excel at customer service.

Dear PAPA SMURF;

Your purchase order number xxxxxxxx is being processed by our warehouse and will ship out on 12/22/2020

We appreciate you placing this order through our website.

You requested your order be shipped by UPS 2nd DAY AIR.
To ensure that you receive your order on the day you expected it, Mouser has upgraded your order to ship UPS NEXT DAY AIR at no additional charge to you.

You are a valued customer and we appreciate your business.
If you have any questions, comments, or if we can assist you in any way please let us know.
You can reply directly to this e-mail.


Thank you,

The Mouser Internet Sales Team
[email protected]
Mouser Electronics, Inc.
A TTI Company

[mansaxel]

Yep, probe included! Interesting about some of the "use cases"; any documentation about that? I'd love to read up. I did surmise that it essentially works like a flux gate compass. I think it will be very valuable to have, since modern clamp meters tend to be crap at low current. 

The classic entry point which is likely you've found already of course is the -hp- memory project page which references  the -hp- Journal article in the June-July, 1958 issue. This text is describing the initial 428a model which ranges down to 3mA and up to 1A. Our 428b meters differ in having range extended both down and up, 1mA and 10A, respectively, and also in having the recorder output.

On the MAD usage, I read about it here, which page also has a bunch of other links, including to the DiyAudio forum thread where a forum participant built a solid-state version. That page also links to the modern 428s by Applied Physics.

Treasure the probe, it is not unobtainium, but rare!

[BU508A]

TEA scores today:

5 AUCON DC-DC converter: 5V to 2x +/- 15V, Type: AC2A05


1 Hameg HZ 22  50Ohm / 2Watt


1 set of EMV probes, bandwidth 1GHz: Hameg HZ 530 - E-, H-, and M-probes


Edit: typos fixed

[Specmaster]

@mnementh Point is that not everyone wants or indeed is that vain that they have to be sporting the very top of the food chain mobile phone, or indeed has the green backs to afford that level of phone in the 1st instance. I certainly have never been able to afford that, and I still have all the phones that I personally purchased and guess what they all still work perfectly as phones, the only thing is that a lot of the apps are no longer supported by the latest OS. Apple indeed suffers from the self same problem in this respect and also within the same time frame, so you gain zilch by buying expensive in the first place.

 I agree as I mentioned in an earlier post that the USB-C is a better system as is indeed the Lightning plug, no argument from here.

But after years of selling phones with a charger to suddenly switch to selling them with NO charger is dumb as potatoes. I know lots of people who do not have drawers full of old chargers simply because a lot of things come with bespoke power packs with the cable permanently terminated at the wall wart and the other end terminated in a plug that fits the associated equipment. The only other USB wall wart they own is the one that came with their previous phone and also intend to sell with the rest of the gear that came with the phone and also in the original box with all the documentation.

So come on, let's cut the Apple adoration crap believing that whatever they do is perfectly OK when it is not. I admire Apple for attempting to be very green here, but it is also being extremely arrogant at the same time. The least they could do if they wish to go down this route of assuming that every buyer has heaps of chargers lying around is to make it abundantly clear that the phone does not have a supplied charger, and they also could supply an adaptor to go from USB-A to USB-C to give new owners a fighting chance of being able to recharge their phones, yes it may not then support fast charge, but at the user could charge at normal speed. 

Number one: give me a fucking break; I'm no Apple fanboi and you know it. I'm also no Android fanboi either. They all suck. What you have to decide with Apple is whether your time has actual value to you. If it does, then you quickly realize they offer you the opportunity to trade money for time out of your life. To me, that's always gonna be a good deal, unless I just don't have the money.

That's why I put up with the cost of an iPad, but will not buy an iPwn; they cost too much for what you get. A regular iPud, OTOH, is in most cases a fucking bargain. The flagship models with all the "I'm gonna be better than your desktop and your laptop all in one" shit built in... fuck no. 

I find that very hard to believe. I find it very hard to believe that they did not try to sell them the charger and/or cable they need with the phone at any  Apple Store, either online or brick & mortar. While I was waiting at the Gebius Bar for them to look up my unit, there was a yuppie getting his Airpods replaced; and even on a replacement the associate made sure he had the correct cables and charger, and asked if he needed a spare before he got up to leave. It's selling the add-ons that makes their Christmas bonus, for glob's sake.

Sold by the carrier... ehhh, half the time they're fucking morons and you'll be lucky to get a phone that actually makes a call the first time you go in. Don't think you can blame Apple for that.

mnem
 

Hell, I know you're no Apple fanboy, I was referring of course to your spirited defence of Apple policy of selling just the phone and a less than common place charging lead. Had they thought it through a little more and included a small low cost adaptor to allow the new phone to work with one of those ubiquitous older USB-A chargers that many (not all) of us have kicking about in drawers etc. Maybe over your side of the pond, USB-C is becoming the de-facto standard but over here it is the USB-A. We even have wiring accessories like wall sockets with them built-in as standard and Amazon has 7 pages of such devices and there only a handful of them that have USB-C built-in, the rest are all USB-A, so that is the norm in the UK and Apple have failed miserably in their marketing dept to fully understand the marketplace they are selling in, with the UK. https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=usb+wall+sockets&qid=1608639092&ref=sr_pg_1

You also seem to suggest that it is the norm for people to either buy their phones from a bricks and mortar Apple Store or Apple online which is not true for the UK, we have numerous places where you can walk out of even a supermarket (superstore) with a new Apple phone in your clutches and while staff at an official Apple Store are trained to make you aware that your phone does not come with a charger or headphones, that sadly does not always happen in most outlets where Apple may be purchased.

USB-C is I admit a great step forward in terms of user convenience and current capacity, but it will take many years yet before it would be safe for any manufacturer to make the assumption a USB-C lead is sufficient, in the interim period, an adaptor really is the way forward and would not cost a fortune to chuck one inside the box.

Edit: Also of course a Bricks and Mortar Apple store over, are NOT a particularly common place, I live in the Capital City for Essex and the nearest Apple Store is 20 miles away  but I can buy an Apple phone from about 20 other stores in the city.

[med6753]

I've never seen current generation iPhones available other than Cell retailers (ATT, Verizon, etc), Apple stores, and on line. But of course I could be wrong because I don't make it my business to look for them.

Just for giggles I looked at the price of an iPhone 12 on Amazon. $829 USD. You gotta be fucking nuts. 

[Saskia]

I got myself a pixel2 xl for the price of a battery swap for my pixel plus 75 pesos. Which is a fair price. I certainly hope it will last another 2 -3 years in which case it had fulfilled its job. I do not see any reason to spend more than 5€/month on a phone.

[bd139]

I've never seen current generation iPhones available other than Cell retailers (ATT, Verizon, etc), Apple stores, and on line. But of course I could be wrong because I don't make it my business to look for them.

Just for giggles I looked at the price of an iPhone 12 on Amazon. $829 USD. You gotta be fucking nuts. 

Amazon! Also 849 here but I got 330 for my old XR on ebay and 200 on expenses so it cost 319. Over 24 months that's 13 a month (2 pints of shite in a bar in London a month) . Add giffgaff 5G for 9 a month means total telecoms on decent handset is 22 a month which is pretty cheap! Oh and I expense the giffgaff as well 

Tyre puncture today as if life wasn't hard enough

[med6753]

Tyre puncture today as if life wasn't hard enough

There goes your iPhone savings. 

[med6753]

I got myself a pixel2 xl for the price of a battery swap for my pixel plus 75 pesos. Which is a fair price. I certainly hope it will last another 2 -3 years in which case it had fulfilled its job. I do not see any reason to spend more than 5€/month on a phone.

My Nokia 925 was either $299 or $399 (forget which) 6 years ago. It has more than paid for itself. My carrier is one of those cut rate carriers with unlimited text/talk and I think 4GB of data/mo, which I never use, for $35/month. And best of all they use ATT infrastructure so coverage is same as having ATT which is double the cost.