Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[AVGresponding]

Yet with the portability of the modern DSO the bigger picture is how much will you really need it and with the addition of a differential probe you can do most everything a portable scope can if isolation is what's required.
With a differential probe in your arsenal it don't matter what scope you might pair it with.

Sure you can float a handheld scope but any of its metal connectors has the same potential shock hazard as the float voltage whereas a differential probe steps all around these issues.

What metal connectors are you talking about?

Modern DSO + diff probe vs old handheld scope is a huge difference in cost. David has a £100 budget, good luck getting your DSO and diff probe for that.

[Specmaster]

<snip>
I would definitely not follow BD's taunt nor would I consider the battery cart an viable option.
My supernumerary THM560 will not pass as a proper scope, even if I had a battery holder for it. (the one I have is in service with the THM565). What I saw over here is a THS720 which is coming again at 333.-€ and a Fluke 123 at 290.- without a bid. It is somewhat scarce. But as such portables go, they are less in the way and might get kept because they are not in the way. If you can afford to wait, you might catch something nicer. OTOH, I did not find £125 for a working 97 soo deplorable.

I agree, replacing the TDS210 with a Siglent or another similar scope is not going to give me any real gain over the TDS210 even with the FFT. All I really need is the ablity to see if a signal is reaching where it needs to and if not, where does it stop, because that is where I'm going to find the problem and the solution. If I was really into doing high end hi-fi repairs and restoration, then a FFT function might well be useful to me, but given that most people these days are perfectly happy playing their MP3 files, distortion does not really fit into that equation as the audio quality is not there, its good, but not hi-fi.

£75 for a working 97 is ok, but I would expect it to come with the hard case, probes power supply etc anyway, but I don't think that £125 is acceptable and even then, there is zero guarantee that it will come with anything other than a power supply 

[bd139]

Use a VTVM and AC probe 

[mnementh]

Currently revisiting this behemoth with an eye to gutting it for to make a useful linear bench PSU in that violet wand  machine. Patched together the fall-apart solder joints in the power supply section enough to get it to power up on both rails; a nice +/-50V from the bridge rectifier center-tapped to that terminal strip right in the middle makes for a lot of flexibility in how one builds... plus, it appears that  as built, each of those center-tapped windings is actually two in parallel center-tapped externally, meaning at a guess possibly four 30-40V windings at somewhere around 3-4A given the wire diameter.

   Hmmmmm...



Shoehorning that transformer and those caps into that smaller enclosure is def a tight fit... then room for PCBs and pass element heat-sinks... oi.

As I suspected, 4 individual windings producing 38VAC per pair unladen; each winding of 1.3mm varnished copper, so 3-4A per winding at a guess.  The color coding suggests these are meant to be kept together in parallel, so should be rated 2 X 32-35V @ 6-8A.

I think I may need to cogitate on this a wee bit more; maybe plan on building in the original enclosure after all, even though it is effing huge and it will be hard to find room for it on my bench.

mnem
*juicy*

[BU508A]

<snip>
I would definitely not follow BD's taunt nor would I consider the battery cart an viable option.
My supernumerary THM560 will not pass as a proper scope, even if I had a battery holder for it. (the one I have is in service with the THM565). What I saw over here is a THS720 which is coming again at 333.-€ and a Fluke 123 at 290.- without a bid. It is somewhat scarce. But as such portables go, they are less in the way and might get kept because they are not in the way. If you can afford to wait, you might catch something nicer. OTOH, I did not find £125 for a working 97 soo deplorable.

I agree, replacing the TDS210 with a Siglent or another similar scope is not going to give me any real gain over the TDS210 even with the FFT. All I really need is the ablity to see if a signal is reaching where it needs to and if not, where does it stop, because that is where I'm going to find the problem and the solution. If I was really into doing high end hi-fi repairs and restoration, then a FFT function might well be useful to me, but given that most people these days are perfectly happy playing their MP3 files, distortion does not really fit into that equation as the audio quality is not there, its good, but not hi-fi.

£75 for a working 97 is ok, but I would expect it to come with the hard case, probes power supply etc anyway, but I don't think that £125 is acceptable and even then, there is zero guarantee that it will come with anything other than a power supply 

For audio work, perhaps you want something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174810467100

[mansaxel]

honestly........it is my least favorite scope AND my least favorite meter.

the UI is kind of annoying.  it also pisses me off that the banana jacks on the top only work for the ohmmeter, diode test, and DC mV modes.  to measure all other AC/DC voltages you use the channel A bnc connector and a probe just as in scope mode. (and you forget that every time you turn it on).

BUT having said that.  it stays around because when you need floating measurements in scope mode you pop in some NIMH batteries (AA's slipped inside some 3/4" PVC pipe) and you are off to the races with no worries.

would not pay more than 100 bucks for one though.  (and i bought it new in about 1992 for almost 2 grand)

Then the 123 is an improvement (except that it sucks at being a scope, which I readily acknowledge). All input is via three safety banana jacks on top, for which there is a BNC adaptor. That adaptor is insulated so that ground is unreachable by fingers. The compromise is that capacitance, resistance and continuity only work on channel A. And it does not measure current, so you'll need another multimeter anyway. But that's not a problem for people in here, right?

I've had mine since 1995 or so, was given it for free on the launch day in Sweden. It's on its third set of rechargeables. And I need to get a  Peli case clone for it, because the paper carton it came in has given up. The PSU has been thoroughly bodged by yours truly (including using hot-snot) from being a wall wart with an Euro plug into a line lump, because the plug part of the PSU broke. It's actually safe to probe mains with it connected; the PSU is built with extra insulation to cope with exactly that.

Yeah, it's mine, and as I wrote I've had it for a while, and i'm probably too attached to describe it neutrally. 

[BU508A]

honestly........it is my least favorite scope AND my least favorite meter.

the UI is kind of annoying.  it also pisses me off that the banana jacks on the top only work for the ohmmeter, diode test, and DC mV modes.  to measure all other AC/DC voltages you use the channel A bnc connector and a probe just as in scope mode. (and you forget that every time you turn it on).

BUT having said that.  it stays around because when you need floating measurements in scope mode you pop in some NIMH batteries (AA's slipped inside some 3/4" PVC pipe) and you are off to the races with no worries.

would not pay more than 100 bucks for one though.  (and i bought it new in about 1992 for almost 2 grand)

Then the 123 is an improvement (except that it sucks at being a scope, which I readily acknowledge). All input is via three safety banana jacks on top, for which there is a BNC adaptor. That adaptor is insulated so that ground is unreachable by fingers. The compromise is that capacitance, resistance and continuity only work on channel A. And it does not measure current, so you'll need another multimeter anyway. But that's not a problem for people in here, right?

It is. I always have to decide which one to take.

 

[tautech]

Yet with the portability of the modern DSO the bigger picture is how much will you really need it and with the addition of a differential probe you can do most everything a portable scope can if isolation is what's required.
With a differential probe in your arsenal it don't matter what scope you might pair it with.

Sure you can float a handheld scope but any of its metal connectors has the same potential shock hazard as the float voltage whereas a differential probe steps all around these issues.

What metal connectors are you talking about?

Any metal fitting, BNC shells, Probe compensation Gnd connection as unless we're talking about isolated channel scopes any metal fitting on a scope shares a common potential.

Modern DSO + diff probe vs old handheld scope is a huge difference in cost. David has a £100 budget, good luck getting your DSO and diff probe for that.

Yes well we all think we can probe anything on a shoestring budget when in reality you just can't, well not safely.
I just dunno what the resistance is to getting decent accessories for scopes. 
While you might wear out a scope or grow outta its capabilities Differential, HV and current probes all have long lives and can be used for decades on any # of scopes we might own.

[Specmaster]

Yet with the portability of the modern DSO the bigger picture is how much will you really need it and with the addition of a differential probe you can do most everything a portable scope can if isolation is what's required.
With a differential probe in your arsenal it don't matter what scope you might pair it with.

Sure you can float a handheld scope but any of its metal connectors has the same potential shock hazard as the float voltage whereas a differential probe steps all around these issues.

What metal connectors are you talking about?

Any metal fitting, BNC shells, Probe compensation Gnd connection as unless we're talking about isolated channel scopes any metal fitting on a scope shares a common potential.

Modern DSO + diff probe vs old handheld scope is a huge difference in cost. David has a £100 budget, good luck getting your DSO and diff probe for that.

Yes well we all think we can probe anything on a shoestring budget when in reality you just can't, well not safely.
I just dunno what the resistance is to getting decent accessories for scopes. 
While you might wear out a scope or grow outta its capabilities Differential, HV and current probes all have long lives and can be used for decades on any # of scopes we might own.

Agreed with the differential probes, hence why I have got myself one already, not used it as yet, apart from testing it and these are ideal for hallow state work but are somewhat of an overkill for transistorised audio work I think. A really nice decent signal injector and tracer would be another great addition to my arsenal of tools and while these where once upon a time common place, these days they are not. I wish they were still being produced and a decent AF/RF one would be great for domestic radio fault-finding as well. BU508A has already posted a link to a Heathkit in the USA (already in my watchlist but what with the shipping costs and import duty, is unlikely to be mine). A signal generator (Rf and or AF) can inject a signal and a scope is perhaps the next best thing to it.

[Vince]

Maybe I missed some replies but looks like nobody proposed this so far so...

TDS210 is cute, would be a shame to replace it with god knows what portable chinese or old overpriced Fluke wasting money.

TDS210 is small, light, portable with its nice handle, and probably draws bugger all power.

So why not simply buy no scope at all, and just make that lovely TDS210 portable ?

With a smallish size battery and cheap small dirty chinese inverter, should do it !  Just stick the pack to the TDS butt whenever you need to take it outside and/or want it floating, and that's it !

Better yet : don't know the internals of the TDS210 but being low end and cheap and small... with some luck the internal SMPS supply puts out a single output voltage and might not even require a standby/power-on signal line. Might be just 12V ? Or whatever.
So just do away with the inverter and just connect a battery or battery pack of the required voltage to the scope. Solder two wires to the SMPS inside, a couple beefy low drop diodes to avoid frying anything, then add a little connector to the back of the case of the scope, or if you don't like to mutilate it, there must be some cooling grills  I presume (no fan IIRC) through which you could route your two wires.

Would work out much cheaper, and you would get to use your cool TDS210 all the time.

I would at least investigate the possibility, were I in your shoes ! 

Hoping to be in your shoes one day, but prices for a TDS200 series over here are insane, people smoke funny stuff it seems.
Plus I would like a 220 or 224 which is rare, and with the "communications/interface" optional module at the back, rare too. I saw such a module for sale standalone recently over here, for 50 Euros. Asked the seller about it.... been a month, still no reply, still online though !  According to the messaging system, guy still has not even READ / seen my message.... hoping nothing bad happened to him, I want his module !

https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/1987919695.htm

[tggzzz]

I just dunno what the resistance is to getting decent accessories for scopes. 
While you might wear out a scope or grow outta its capabilities Differential, HV and current probes all have long lives and can be used for decades on any # of scopes we might own.

Precisely!

I get sick and tired of pointing out https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/isolation-transformer-for-scope/msg2259465/#msg2259465

[tautech]

Maybe I missed some replies but looks like nobody proposed this so far so...

TDS210 is cute, would be a shame to replace it with god knows what portable chinese or old overpriced Fluke wasting money.

TDS210 is small, light, portable with its nice handle, and probably draws bugger all power.

So why not simply buy no scope at all, and just make that lovely TDS210 portable ?

With a smallish size battery and cheap small dirty chinese inverter, should do it !  Just stick the pack to the TDS butt whenever you need to take it outside and/or want it floating, and that's it !

Better yet : don't know the internals of the TDS210 but being low end and cheap and small... with some luck the internal SMPS supply puts out a single output voltage and might not even require a standby/power-on signal line. Might be just 12V ? Or whatever.
So just do away with the inverter and just connect a battery or battery pack of the required voltage to the scope. Solder two wires to the SMPS inside, a couple beefy low drop diodes to avoid frying anything, then add a little connector to the back of the case of the scope, or if you don't like to mutilate it, there must be some cooling grills  I presume (no fan IIRC) through which you could route your two wires.

Would work out much cheaper, and you would get to use your cool TDS210 all the time.

I would at least investigate the possibility, were I in your shoes ! 

Hoping to be in your shoes one day, but prices for a TDS200 series over here are insane, people smoke funny stuff it seems.
Plus I would like a 220 or 224 which is rare, and with the "communications/interface" optional module at the back, rare too. I saw such a module for sale standalone recently over here, for 50 Euros. Asked the seller about it.... been a month, still no reply, still online though !  According to the messaging system, guy still has not even READ / seen my message.... hoping nothing bad happened to him, I want his module !

https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/1987919695.htm

FYI Vince TDS200 was an early foray by Tek into digital DSO's and today they just can't be compared with a modern DSO.
They had mechanical and electrical issues where the 2 post BNC could break from their posts as they were only PCB mounted and had terrible microphonics as a result whereas any decent scope uses bulkhead type BNC for mechanical support and to minimize microphonics.
They also had a general factory recall when early units had light mains earth ground traces which blew/fused when users inadvertently created a ground loop.
Today they barely qualify as a DSO as their storage capacity is abysmal however the mechanical issues can be addressed with some rework and addition of a copper strap over the BNC's and soldered onto the quite beefy adjacent ground plane.


Been there done that in early days of fixing and flogging scopes.

[mnementh]

I just dunno what the resistance is to getting decent accessories for scopes. 
While you might wear out a scope or grow outta its capabilities Differential, HV and current probes all have long lives and can be used for decades on any # of scopes we might own.

Precisely!

I get sick and tired of pointing out https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/isolation-transformer-for-scope/msg2259465/#msg2259465

Yet another reason to love handhelds on the bench.

mnem

[Vince]

Oh, I understand you hate this scope, but point is he already has one and using it, so that's the cheapest option !

Didn't know about the horror stories on the TDS200, thanks for the info. Still like it, pleny of 100 times worse DSO's in my collection !
You have developed luxurious tastes over the years it seems !  ^^
From what I understand he hardly wants state of the art performance and/or features anyway...
Many people would be so happy to have a TD200 rather than their crappy 70's Hameg non-triggered time base junk, or some " DSOnano " 10 Euros chinese junk ! 

[tautech]

Oh, I understand you hate this scope, but point is he already has one and using it, so that's the cheapest option !

Didn't know about the horror stories on the TDS200, thanks for the info. Still like it, plenty of 100 times worse DSO's in my collection !

I don't hate 200's just know their serious limitations but Tek's later DSO forays were better yet a 1000 I was given with a failed backlight still can't be compared with a modern DSO nor could the TDS2102B I have that died from a corroded pin on an IC. You may think fanless scopes are the way to go but if they are top vented that can cause a whole other set of problems with dust contamination. My days of Tek stuff are long over as we've had 100x better reliability with the Chinese shit we sell. 

[Specmaster]

Maybe I missed some replies but looks like nobody proposed this so far so...

TDS210 is cute, would be a shame to replace it with god knows what portable chinese or old overpriced Fluke wasting money.

TDS210 is small, light, portable with its nice handle, and probably draws bugger all power.

So why not simply buy no scope at all, and just make that lovely TDS210 portable ?

With a smallish size battery and cheap small dirty chinese inverter, should do it !  Just stick the pack to the TDS butt whenever you need to take it outside and/or want it floating, and that's it !

Better yet : don't know the internals of the TDS210 but being low end and cheap and small... with some luck the internal SMPS supply puts out a single output voltage and might not even require a standby/power-on signal line. Might be just 12V ? Or whatever.
So just do away with the inverter and just connect a battery or battery pack of the required voltage to the scope. Solder two wires to the SMPS inside, a couple beefy low drop diodes to avoid frying anything, then add a little connector to the back of the case of the scope, or if you don't like to mutilate it, there must be some cooling grills  I presume (no fan IIRC) through which you could route your two wires.

Would work out much cheaper, and you would get to use your cool TDS210 all the time.

I would at least investigate the possibility, were I in your shoes ! 

Hoping to be in your shoes one day, but prices for a TDS200 series over here are insane, people smoke funny stuff it seems.
Plus I would like a 220 or 224 which is rare, and with the "communications/interface" optional module at the back, rare too. I saw such a module for sale standalone recently over here, for 50 Euros. Asked the seller about it.... been a month, still no reply, still online though !  According to the messaging system, guy still has not even READ / seen my message.... hoping nothing bad happened to him, I want his module !

https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/1987919695.htm

FYI Vince TDS200 was an early foray by Tek into digital DSO's and today they just can't be compared with a modern DSO.
They had mechanical and electrical issues where the 2 post BNC could break from their posts as they were only PCB mounted and had terrible microphonics as a result whereas any decent scope uses bulkhead type BNC for mechanical support and to minimize microphonics.
They also had a general factory recall when early units had light mains earth ground traces which blew/fused when users inadvertently created a ground loop.
Today they barely qualify as a DSO as their storage capacity is abysmal however the mechanical issues can be addressed with some rework and addition of a copper strap over the BNC's and soldered onto the quite beefy adjacent ground plane.


Been there done that in early days of fixing and flogging scopes.

Guys, fact is that I hardly ever use a scope and as such a scope I consider to be a luxury item in my tool kit. I'm not into forward engineering, nor am I into RF stuff apart from repairing domestic band radios, MW/LW/FM only so have no need for any really fancy gear and so a max of 100MHz is about all I need for the occasions when I do. TBH most of my work is buying broken or rescuing audio gear from becoming landfill, repairing them and then flipping them for a small profit if possible. Would I love to have a better, more modern scope with increased functionality  but the caveat still remains, I don't actually need the extra speed, memory depth etc, just a basic scope with cursor measurements which both my scopes can do already. Do I really need a Fluke 97, not really, it was just a something I know would give me a new toy to play with and also give me greater depth and capability in my toolkit.

That is on the same scale and wavelength of the mechanic who is constantly buying up new tools, many of which may well never be used.

[beanflying]

Maybe I missed some replies but looks like nobody proposed this so far so...

TDS210 is cute, would be a shame to replace it with god knows what portable chinese or old overpriced Fluke wasting money.

TDS210 is small, light, portable with its nice handle, and probably draws bugger all power.

So why not simply buy no scope at all, and just make that lovely TDS210 portable ?

With a smallish size battery and cheap small dirty chinese inverter, should do it !  Just stick the pack to the TDS butt whenever you need to take it outside and/or want it floating, and that's it !

Better yet : don't know the internals of the TDS210 but being low end and cheap and small... with some luck the internal SMPS supply puts out a single output voltage and might not even require a standby/power-on signal line. Might be just 12V ? Or whatever.
So just do away with the inverter and just connect a battery or battery pack of the required voltage to the scope. Solder two wires to the SMPS inside, a couple beefy low drop diodes to avoid frying anything, then add a little connector to the back of the case of the scope, or if you don't like to mutilate it, there must be some cooling grills  I presume (no fan IIRC) through which you could route your two wires.

Would work out much cheaper, and you would get to use your cool TDS210 all the time.

I would at least investigate the possibility, were I in your shoes ! 

Hoping to be in your shoes one day, but prices for a TDS200 series over here are insane, people smoke funny stuff it seems.
Plus I would like a 220 or 224 which is rare, and with the "communications/interface" optional module at the back, rare too. I saw such a module for sale standalone recently over here, for 50 Euros. Asked the seller about it.... been a month, still no reply, still online though !  According to the messaging system, guy still has not even READ / seen my message.... hoping nothing bad happened to him, I want his module !

https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/1987919695.htm

FYI Vince TDS200 was an early foray by Tek into digital DSO's and today they just can't be compared with a modern DSO.
They had mechanical and electrical issues where the 2 post BNC could break from their posts as they were only PCB mounted and had terrible microphonics as a result whereas any decent scope uses bulkhead type BNC for mechanical support and to minimize microphonics.
They also had a general factory recall when early units had light mains earth ground traces which blew/fused when users inadvertently created a ground loop.
Today they barely qualify as a DSO as their storage capacity is abysmal however the mechanical issues can be addressed with some rework and addition of a copper strap over the BNC's and soldered onto the quite beefy adjacent ground plane.


Been there done that in early days of fixing and flogging scopes.

Guys, fact is that I hardly ever use a scope and as such a scope I consider to be a luxury item in my tool kit. I'm not into forward engineering, nor am I into RF stuff apart from repairing domestic band radios, MW/LW/FM only so have no need for any really fancy gear and so a max of 100MHz is about all I need for the occasions when I do. TBH most of my work is buying broken or rescuing audio gear from becoming landfill, repairing them and then flipping them for a small profit if possible. Would I love to have a better, more modern scope with increased functionality  but the caveat still remains, I don't actually need the extra speed, memory depth etc, just a basic scope with cursor measurements which both my scopes can do already. Do I really need a Fluke 97, not really, it was just a something I know would give me a new toy to play with and also give me greater depth and capability in my toolkit.

That is on the same scale and wavelength of the mechanic who is constantly buying up new tools, many of which may well never be used.

MicSig on Batteries is clearly what you need  In spite of adding a 500Meg indulgence recently it is more than I need too and as an allrounder for portable and bench use it does what I need. So buy one and sell your other.

[tautech]

Maybe I missed some replies but looks like nobody proposed this so far so...

TDS210 is cute, would be a shame to replace it with god knows what portable chinese or old overpriced Fluke wasting money.

TDS210 is small, light, portable with its nice handle, and probably draws bugger all power.

So why not simply buy no scope at all, and just make that lovely TDS210 portable ?

With a smallish size battery and cheap small dirty chinese inverter, should do it !  Just stick the pack to the TDS butt whenever you need to take it outside and/or want it floating, and that's it !

Better yet : don't know the internals of the TDS210 but being low end and cheap and small... with some luck the internal SMPS supply puts out a single output voltage and might not even require a standby/power-on signal line. Might be just 12V ? Or whatever.
So just do away with the inverter and just connect a battery or battery pack of the required voltage to the scope. Solder two wires to the SMPS inside, a couple beefy low drop diodes to avoid frying anything, then add a little connector to the back of the case of the scope, or if you don't like to mutilate it, there must be some cooling grills  I presume (no fan IIRC) through which you could route your two wires.

Would work out much cheaper, and you would get to use your cool TDS210 all the time.

I would at least investigate the possibility, were I in your shoes ! 

Hoping to be in your shoes one day, but prices for a TDS200 series over here are insane, people smoke funny stuff it seems.
Plus I would like a 220 or 224 which is rare, and with the "communications/interface" optional module at the back, rare too. I saw such a module for sale standalone recently over here, for 50 Euros. Asked the seller about it.... been a month, still no reply, still online though !  According to the messaging system, guy still has not even READ / seen my message.... hoping nothing bad happened to him, I want his module !

https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/1987919695.htm

FYI Vince TDS200 was an early foray by Tek into digital DSO's and today they just can't be compared with a modern DSO.
They had mechanical and electrical issues where the 2 post BNC could break from their posts as they were only PCB mounted and had terrible microphonics as a result whereas any decent scope uses bulkhead type BNC for mechanical support and to minimize microphonics.
They also had a general factory recall when early units had light mains earth ground traces which blew/fused when users inadvertently created a ground loop.
Today they barely qualify as a DSO as their storage capacity is abysmal however the mechanical issues can be addressed with some rework and addition of a copper strap over the BNC's and soldered onto the quite beefy adjacent ground plane.


Been there done that in early days of fixing and flogging scopes.

Guys, fact is that I hardly ever use a scope and as such a scope I consider to be a luxury item in my tool kit. I'm not into forward engineering, nor am I into RF stuff apart from repairing domestic band radios, MW/LW/FM only so have no need for any really fancy gear and so a max of 100MHz is about all I need for the occasions when I do. TBH most of my work is buying broken or rescuing audio gear from becoming landfill, repairing them and then flipping them for a small profit if possible. Would I love to have a better, more modern scope with increased functionality  but the caveat still remains, I don't actually need the extra speed, memory depth etc, just a basic scope with cursor measurements which both my scopes can do already. Do I really need a Fluke 97, not really, it was just a something I know would give me a new toy to play with and also give me greater depth and capability in my toolkit.

That is on the same scale and wavelength of the mechanic who is constantly buying up new tools, many of which may well never be used.

Horses for courses Spec as without a scope, any scope for that matter you are blind to what's happening in a circuit.

As for tools of any kind, all my life I have needed more and brought more. In 5 years of twisting spanners the tools acquired then haven't been anywhere near enough for the advances in things mechanical where today you also need a laptop to work on many vehicles whereas a few decades back mechanics would have laughed at you for saying one day they would.

It seems like yesterday when I first got into this game when a customer designing and producing some nice gear was still decoding their data bus code by eye whereas today no one would even consider it such is the capability of even the cheapest cheap scopes today.
That said, everyone has different needs and skill as to what they might consider to take on to grow their skill set where the tools at hand can severely limit how far one might venture into the unknown.

It's all about personal growth isn't it ?

[vk6zgo]

I'm firmly at the  Williams / Pease end of the spectrum, or maybe off the scale 

Something always slightly scared me about Jim Williams’ bench setup. Those HP supplies yet had stacked up aren’t known for state of the art mains safety. Surprised he didn’t touch his pile of junk and get electrocuted through a resistor leg creeping in under them 

A snapshot from my 6237b:

Yes that never impressed me about those. What is worst is the fuse holder on the back which can short to ground via the case shielded only by some really bendy aluminium. 

I still love them though 

I remember a hp N & D set that would spontaneously blow a rack fuse at random intervals.
We found that they had fitted a fuse holded for a 3AG fuse, which from time to time, shorted on an internal aluminium partition.

The latter was only held at the bottom, & they relied upon it being rigid enough  not to flex, or alternatively, originally used a much shorter 2AG fuseholder.

The "quick fix" was to glue a piece of perspex on the internal panel .

What is strange, is how the internal panel managed to flex, when the whole intrument was securely mounted in a rack, unlike many other devices which bounced around the State in road cases.

Of course, they are in good company.

An NEC FM transmitter at my next job would arc over from one of the HT discharge resistors to the adjacent metalwork.
The resistor outside coating was breached where this happened, but the resistor still measured correct value.

If it had been our transmitter, we would have just bought a new one, but it belonged to a community broadcaster without the cash reserves of a commercial operation, so it seems they would have "to save up their tea fund money & go without their mid-morning libation" to afford it.

As a quick fix, I glued a piece of Teflon to the metalwork where the HT was arcing to.
My Boss said Superglue wouldn't stick Teflon to steel, but apparently nobody told the Superglue.
It was still there, along with the original resistor when I left, years later.

[vk6zgo]

I'm firmly at the  Williams / Pease end of the spectrum, or maybe off the scale 

Something always slightly scared me about Jim Williams’ bench setup. Those HP supplies yet had stacked up aren’t known for state of the art mains safety. Surprised he didn’t touch his pile of junk and get electrocuted through a resistor leg creeping in under them 

No worry:

 

Haha that’s pretty funny actually 

Love the pile of buckets 

"The most interesting engineer in the world."

Not the highest bar, I would think!

[vk6zgo]

Just rang Stewards of Reading again chasing the requested info, and was informed that it will now be Monday when they finally get back to me as the person dealing with my request has had to go out as he had an appointment he needed to keep and won't be back till Monday 

British small business at its best.

By the time you get anything back from half of them you can get what you want delivered next day new from Amazon for the same price.

My impression was always that many British shop owners actively hate their customers.

For example, I was once "busting for a pee" in a miserably cold, windy, provincial English city.
Looked around, no public "dunnies", so I dived into a Pub, intending to buy a beer, go for a pee, then return to the bar, & drink my beer.

On entering the place, it was chockful, so I went to "do my business" then back into the bar.
Still hordes of customers, clamouring for drinks.

I thought "I haven't got 30 minutes to wait, as I'll miss my train!" so, not without misgivings, I left.
The bloody Publican chased me down the street yelling imprecations!

In no other country, would someone neglect a whole bar full of patrons to chase someone for having a "free pee!"

[AVGresponding]

Yet with the portability of the modern DSO the bigger picture is how much will you really need it and with the addition of a differential probe you can do most everything a portable scope can if isolation is what's required.
With a differential probe in your arsenal it don't matter what scope you might pair it with.

Sure you can float a handheld scope but any of its metal connectors has the same potential shock hazard as the float voltage whereas a differential probe steps all around these issues.

What metal connectors are you talking about?

Any metal fitting, BNC shells, Probe compensation Gnd connection as unless we're talking about isolated channel scopes any metal fitting on a scope shares a common potential.

Modern DSO + diff probe vs old handheld scope is a huge difference in cost. David has a £100 budget, good luck getting your DSO and diff probe for that.

Yes well we all think we can probe anything on a shoestring budget when in reality you just can't, well not safely.
I just dunno what the resistance is to getting decent accessories for scopes. 
While you might wear out a scope or grow outta its capabilities Differential, HV and current probes all have long lives and can be used for decades on any # of scopes we might own.

Again, what metal fittings? All the handhelds mentioned here have fully isolated, plastic shelled BNCs, with the Tek 700 series having independently isolated channels.
They are DESIGNED for probing dangerous voltages in (relative) safety.

As has also been mentioned before, an isolation transformer and differential probe are NO SUBSTITUTE for good practice and knowledge, and indeed may encourage a false sense of safety.

[Brumby]

Alternately, could get a cheap MOSFET Tab-welder (aboot $20-30 on eBay or less on banggood) ......

You've got me ready to pull the trigger on one .... as well as some nickel plated strip. Bloody enablers.   

OK mnem, I've pulled the trigger on one, albeit a different model.   Happy now?

Ummm... it kindof defeats the purpose of me being "The Club Guinea Pig" on these cheap Chinese bits of gear if you don't at least wait until I test it and post pictures of me getting electrocuted... 

mnem
Don't try this at home, kids...

Who said you're the only one to have fun?

The unit I've elected to try is has an XT60 connector for input power as well as 8 MOSFETS.  I will need to consider power supply options, though.  I have an old car battery that can still crank an engine if recently charged, but part of me is thinking of buying into the high discharge rate RC battery pack game.  Another thought is that I have a power supply rated at 13.8v 25A (35A peak) that I might have a closer look at ... maybe add some high discharge rate capacitors.......... maybe not.   

Mind you, I still have to wait for that slow boat from China, so you might beat me to it yet.

[tggzzz]

That is on the same scale and wavelength of the mechanic who is constantly buying up new tools, many of which may well never be used.

I'm currently clearing out my father's workroom, so I recognise that. He was a chemical engineer specialising in two phase flow. One of his 1989 papers was "Deep swirling flow down a plughole with air entrainment", with the last line in the abstact being "These systems occur in certain PWR loss of coolant accidents", but I haven't found any evidence of his work in his workroom. Yet.

My daughter also fears that syndrome.

[Robert763]

Yet with the portability of the modern DSO the bigger picture is how much will you really need it and with the addition of a differential probe you can do most everything a portable scope can if isolation is what's required.
With a differential probe in your arsenal it don't matter what scope you might pair it with.

Sure you can float a handheld scope but any of its metal connectors has the same potential shock hazard as the float voltage whereas a differential probe steps all around these issues.

The Fluke and Phillips handheld 'scopes and TEK THS720 do not have ANY exposed metalwork. The outer part of the BNCs is plastic and even the DC jack is recessed to maintain creapage and the plug is extra long.