Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Inverted18650]

Hello all, back from my time out. Needed to get a clear head and it was good to know what some other feel about me.

I’ve been reading as a guest daily, like I did for 8 yrs before logging on and speaking. Lots of cool gear and projects abound. Thanks to everyone who emailed my and chatted while I was away, true friends are hard to find nowadays.

Know let’s talk TEA!

I have grabbed a bunch more gear but the jewel is a nice 5100B multi function calibration unit. I am eyeing the 5220A counterpart and maybe even the Fluke 8508A that’s on eBay. It would round out my Fluke 8500 series collection! I think I am a certified volt nut at this point.

[Brumby]

Inverted - good to see you back.


Had a look at the OCXO from Bean's box of goodies.

Found out how the power setup worked and set about getting things ready to check.  I fed the 3.2MHz signal into one channel of my scope and the 8656B into the other and dialled up 3.2MHz.  I left it all running for about an hour and by my manual observation of the scope traces, worked out a discrepancy of about 0.8 Hz with the 8656 using its standard timebase oscillator.  After 2 hours, the difference was just under 0.6 Hz

When I patched in the high stability timebase oscillator, the difference was significantly more.  My best guess puts the difference somewhere around 40-50Hz, but I'm not set up for any better (unless I get the 5381 up and running).

I can feel time nuttery coming on - stealthily, menacingly and with deliberate intent.  My wallet is scared.

[beanflying]

Inverted - good to see you back.

Had a look at the OCXO from Bean's box of goodies.

Found out how the power setup worked and set about getting things ready to check.  I fed the 3.2MHz signal into one channel of my scope and the 8656B into the other and dialled up 3.2MHz.  I left it all running for about an hour and by my manual observation of the scope traces, worked out a discrepancy of about 0.8 Hz with the 8656 using its standard timebase oscillator.  After 2 hours, the difference was just under 0.6 Hz

When I patched in the high stability timebase oscillator, the difference was significantly more.  My best guess puts the difference somewhere around 40-50Hz, but I'm not set up for any better (unless I get the 5381 up and running).

I can feel time nuttery coming on - stealthily, menacingly and with deliberate intent.  My wallet is scared.

But how will you 'know' the 5381 is reading correctly  Last time I set the oscillator was pre getting a GPSDO so it would have been set against my Feelcrud which I now know is out by 20-30 Hz at 10M. You are now in freefall and at level -33 on your descent into the Rabbit Hole

And WB Inverted 

[Brumby]

I am aware I only have "relative" observations.  I am also aware that this sets me up for a prime subscription to the Time Nutter's Periodical.

[Ero-Shan]

After reading about the magic eye tubes I had to go out to storage to plug in my old ESI 250-DA RLC bridge that I haven't powered up in years. It still works and the 6E5 tube is strong and doesn't exhibit fading as well used weaker tubes do.

I also have an RCA Chanalyst like the one shown in the photo that used 4 of the magic eye tubes.

Very nice! Both of them. But the ESI wins hands down because of the wonderfully soothing green color! I like blue only when its saturated (OK, except  the sky  ).

[Ero-Shan]

I can still just remember valve receivers with them.
Interestingly my RCA book also mentions a dual magic eye valve, a 6AF6-G, never seen one of those. 

The magic eye looking at you right now is a EM34 containing 2 systems (upper and lower half-circle).
The EM80 is also a real beauty with its green fan. I once used 2 of them as VU meters (just as eye candy).
It's about time that I finish my HV PSU so I can let them shine again. 

[Ero-Shan]

The T-38 is another of those iconic birds like the B-52; and like the Stratofortress, 60 years later she has outlived every plane meant to replace her. She was designed in a different age; when pilots were meant to fall in love with their aircraft, and she is certainly a comely creature, even if intended as a trainer. It is entirely possible her feminine curves were deliberate; to excite the male libido and ego as one, driving enlistment.

Somehow I like your explanation better than the curves being just an application of the area rule. 

[bd139]

FFS my sodding T12 just blew its arse out. Looks like the MOSFET on the controller exploded.

Sitting in the garden doing RG58 terminations at the time. Thus fuck this, going to go and buy a new extension reel and will run metcal out there

[mnementh]

Hello all, back from my time out. Needed to get a clear head and it was good to know what some other feel about me.

I’ve been reading as a guest daily, like I did for 8 yrs before logging on and speaking. Lots of cool gear and projects abound. Thanks to everyone who emailed my and chatted while I was away, true friends are hard to find nowadays.

Know let’s talk TEA!

I have grabbed a bunch more gear but the jewel is a nice 5100B multi function calibration unit. I am eyeing the 5220A counterpart and maybe even the Fluke 8508A that’s on eBay. It would round out my Fluke 8500 series collection! I think I am a certified volt nut at this point.

Welcome home, brother; hope you found yourself. I know I have to go on walkabout myself at least a few times a year anymore.

Those brackets turned out really well, bean. Bravo!

The only hard part was guesstimating the 3⁰ angles on the verticals where I got lucky first time around. That and I metricated the hell out of HP's decimal inches  

30 minute print at 0.1 layer and $0.25 of filament. Value $ plenty

That's EXACTLY the kind of application I see FDM filling for a long time to come. Parts where its inherently rough finish don't matter, or can be integrated into the overall design aesthetic like these clips or my HDD Bay bracket. Now if I could only really master SOME CADD program for the making... 

mnem
*wetware vs software*

[mnementh]

I can still just remember valve receivers with them.
Interestingly my RCA book also mentions a dual magic eye valve, a 6AF6-G, never seen one of those. 

   The magic eye looking at you right now is a EM34 containing 2 systems (upper and lower half-circle). The EM80 is also a real beauty with its green fan. I once used 2 of them as VU meters (just as eye candy). It's about time that I finish my HV PSU so I can let them shine again. 

While I'm sure you could have used just one, I like your design aesthetic. Maybe I'm being biped-centric, but eyes need to be in pairs. 

The T-38 is another of those iconic birds like the B-52; and like the Stratofortress, 60 years later she has outlived every plane meant to replace her. She was designed in a different age; when pilots were meant to fall in love with their aircraft, and she is certainly a comely creature, even if intended as a trainer. It is entirely possible her feminine curves were deliberate; to excite the male libido and ego as one, driving enlistment.

Somehow I like your explanation better than the curves being just an application of the area rule. 

I suspect there's a little of both in there. My first gig out of college was with an avionics manufacturer which later was absorbed by Raytheon; I lunched regularly with several of the old-timer resident aviation engineers just to listen to their stories. They were a strange lot; not the cold, mathematical automatons engineers are often painted to be, but rather soulful and humourous creatures with boatloads of irony in their "baggage". And the maths to back up their convictions.

Like Cassandra, they were cursed to "know too much"; and so were helpless to prevent the tragic comedies that seemed to constantly unfold as a consequence of their work. They had a preternatural understanding of the clockworks of the universe, and this both made them valuable to people of much inferior intellect, while at the same time drove them to forever seek a greater understanding, even as their own work broke that very clockwork they strove to understand. And the irony was that they knew all of this intimately, even the irony thereof, yet still were driven to carry on just the same.

I found myself bringing a notepad, just to scribble down strange terms they exchanged in passing; later library ponderings revealed whole mathematical, psychological & philosophical constructs that those terms referred to. It was my first inkling of the "larger world" that those with a more complete education and greater intellect than mine lived and existed in. I first "grokked in fullness" the very concept of "grok" as a result of trying to hold my own in one of those conversations.

mnem
*Cursed to know just enough to guess how little I actually know*

[med6753]

The 2430 Power Supply.....determined that the supply is indeed in Primary Fault Shutdown. But it is NOT in "tick mode". It just never comes up. You would figure there would be something obviously burned or shorted but that's not the case. The VREF chip just won't start up. The chip itself could be bad and I did see on a u tube video that it was but I'm not totally sure. There are so many feedback loops that after hours I appear to be chasing my tail. So I'm taking the cheaters way out. I found on Ebay a 2430 that powers up fine but has display issues for only $45 USD plus $22 USD shipping. A bargain and I scooped it up. I'll swap the power supply and I'll have a parts mule.     

[mnementh]

FFS my sodding T12 just blew its arse out. Looks like the MOSFET on the controller exploded.

Sitting in the garden doing RG58 terminations at the time. Thus fuck this, going to go and buy a new extension reel and will run Metcal out there.

I give it 48 hours tops before you're at your bench replacing the FET with a fatter one and replacing filter caps you suspect of being the root cause of the failure. 

I am aware I only have "relative" observations.  I am also aware that this sets me up for a prime subscription to the Time Nutter's Periodical.

I'll have them delivered to your seat in Plato's Cave. Are you on the floor or in the balcony with the rest of the malcontents? 

mnem

*Stirring the TEA*

[med6753]

Hello all, back from my time out. Needed to get a clear head and it was good to know what some other feel about me.

I’ve been reading as a guest daily, like I did for 8 yrs before logging on and speaking. Lots of cool gear and projects abound. Thanks to everyone who emailed my and chatted while I was away, true friends are hard to find nowadays.

Know let’s talk TEA!

I have grabbed a bunch more gear but the jewel is a nice 5100B multi function calibration unit. I am eyeing the 5220A counterpart and maybe even the Fluke 8508A that’s on eBay. It would round out my Fluke 8500 series collection! I think I am a certified volt nut at this point.

Good to see you back! Hope all is well. 

You need to post pix of your latest purchases. 

[tggzzz]

Those brackets turned out really well, bean. Bravo!

The only hard part was guesstimating the 3⁰ angles on the verticals where I got lucky first time around. That and I metricated the hell out of HP's decimal inches  

30 minute print at 0.1 layer and $0.25 of filament. Value $ plenty

That's EXACTLY the kind of application I see FDM filling for a long time to come. Parts where its inherently rough finish don't matter, or can be integrated into the overall design aesthetic like these clips or my HDD Bay bracket. Now if I could only really master SOME CADD program for the making... 

Such 3⁰ angles and many other aspects of a design are easily expressed in a programming language with variables/parameters - i.e. not squishy draggable wireframes.

My preference is for OpenSCAD, since it is free, widely available, and there are many useful libraries available (e.g. creating glyphs from fonts, parameterised screwthreads etc).

I'm also beguiled by some of the constraint satisfaction languages, but I haven't used them in anger to see where they do/don't work.

[mnementh]

The 2430 Power Supply.....determined that the supply is indeed in Primary Fault Shutdown. But it is NOT in "tick mode". It just never comes up. You would figure there would be something obviously burned or shorted but that's not the case. The VREF chip just won't start up. The chip itself could be bad and I did see on a u tube video that it was but I'm not totally sure. There are so many feedback loops that after hours I appear to be chasing my tail. So I'm taking the cheaters way out. I found on Ebay a 2430 that powers up fine but has display issues for only $45 USD plus $22 USD shipping. A bargain and I scooped it up. I'll swap the power supply and I'll have a parts mule. 

At least on the 2430 the power supply is modular. In the 2230 it's on the A1 board. 

mnem
*Hoping once you get it running the UI isn't as counter-intuitive as the 2230* *fnord*

[tggzzz]

My first gig out of college was with an avionics manufacturer which later was absorbed by Raytheon; I lunched regularly with several of the old-timer resident aviation engineers just to listen to their stories. They were a strange lot; not the cold, mathematical automatons engineers are often painted to be, but rather soulful and humourous creatures with boatloads of irony in their "baggage". And the maths to back up their convictions.

Like Cassandra, they were cursed to "know too much"; and so were helpless to prevent the tragic comedies that seemed to constantly unfold as a consequence of their work. They had a preternatural understanding of the clockworks of the universe, and this both made them valuable to people of much inferior intellect, while at the same time drove them to forever seek a greater understanding, even as their own work broke that very clockwork they strove to understand. And the irony was that they knew all of this intimately, even the irony thereof, yet still were driven to carry on just the same.

I found myself bringing a notepad, just to scribble down strange terms they exchanged in passing; later library ponderings revealed whole mathematical, psychological & philosophical constructs that those terms referred to. It was my first inkling of the "larger world" that those with a more complete education and greater intellect than mine lived and existed in. I first "grokked in fullness" the very concept of "grok" as a result of trying to hold my own in one of those conversations.

mnem
*Cursed to know just enough to guess how little I actually know*

There's a reason Cassandra is remembered and still relevant after 2500 years.

For me, such grokking is the main reason for living. When I can no longer grok new things I shall consider myself as goood as dead.

For that and other reasons, knowing how little I know is a blessing. There are too many very visible examples of the opposite over here at the moment; their rallying cry is "don't trust the experts (but trust me instead)".

[mnementh]

Those brackets turned out really well, bean. Bravo!

The only hard part was guesstimating the 3⁰ angles on the verticals where I got lucky first time around. That and I metricated the hell out of HP's decimal inches  

30 minute print at 0.1 layer and $0.25 of filament. Value $ plenty

That's EXACTLY the kind of application I see FDM filling for a long time to come. Parts where its inherently rough finish don't matter, or can be integrated into the overall design aesthetic like these clips or my HDD Bay bracket. Now if I could only really master SOME CADD program for the making... 

Such 3⁰ angles and many other aspects of a design are easily expressed in a programming language with variables/parameters - i.e. not squishy draggable wireframes.

My preference is for OpenSCAD, since it is free, widely available, and there are many useful libraries available (e.g. creating glyphs from fonts, parameterised screwthreads etc).

I'm also beguiled by some of the constraint satisfaction languages, but I haven't used them in anger to see where they do/don't work.

Fortunately, the precision of FDM is such that squishy draggable wireframes are more than adequate.
Well, fortunately for math-defective tinkerdwagons like myself, that is. 

mnem
I have enough trouble satisfying the constraints of civil discourse; I'm too old to be doing it in a language I already know full well I'm woefully deficient in.

[tggzzz]

I have enough trouble satisfying the constraints of civil discourse; I'm too old to be doing it in a language I already know full well I'm woefully deficient in.

There's a beguiling simplicity to being able to state that "this cuboid is connected to that cuboid and is the same length and same thickness", or "this hole is the same size at that hole, and they are distributed at 1/3 and 2/3 of the way along the length of that cuboid". Makes it easy to shrink the design by 1.4mm because you cocked it up the first time

[mnementh]

My first gig out of college was with an avionics manufacturer which later was absorbed by Raytheon; I lunched regularly with several of the old-timer resident aviation engineers just to listen to their stories. They were a strange lot; not the cold, mathematical automatons engineers are often painted to be, but rather soulful and humourous creatures with boatloads of irony in their "baggage". And the maths to back up their convictions.

Like Cassandra, they were cursed to "know too much"; and so were helpless to prevent the tragic comedies that seemed to constantly unfold as a consequence of their work. They had a preternatural understanding of the clockworks of the universe, and this both made them valuable to people of much inferior intellect, while at the same time drove them to forever seek a greater understanding, even as their own work broke that very clockwork they strove to understand. And the irony was that they knew all of this intimately, even the irony thereof, yet still were driven to carry on just the same.

I found myself bringing a notepad, just to scribble down strange terms they exchanged in passing; later library ponderings revealed whole mathematical, psychological & philosophical constructs that those terms referred to. It was my first inkling of the "larger world" that those with a more complete education and greater intellect than mine lived and existed in. I first "grokked in fullness" the very concept of "grok" as a result of trying to hold my own in one of those conversations.

mnem
*Cursed to know just enough to guess how little I actually know*

There's a reason Cassandra is remembered and still relevant after 2500 years.

For me, such grokking is the main reason for living. When I can no longer grok new things I shall consider myself as goood as dead.

For that and other reasons, knowing how little I know is a blessing. There are too many very visible examples of the opposite over here at the moment; their rallying cry is "don't trust the experts (but trust me instead)".

Yes... I've more than once found myself bemoaning the fact that not only do the willfully ignorant masses expect those of us who know better to protect them from their own stupidity, they expect us to fight them for the privilege thereof. 

That aspect of corporate culture was what drove me out of Engineering in general; not only did my weak math abilities make me at best a passably viable  "commercial" Engineer, my lack of tolerance for the schizophrenic conditions under which I was allowed to practice the problem-solving I loved put me fundamentally at odds with the source of resources needed for that work. But it was fun while it lasted.

mnem
"Any day in which you do not learn something is a waste." ~me

[mnementh]

I have enough trouble satisfying the constraints of civil discourse; I'm too old to be doing it in a language I already know full well I'm woefully deficient in.

There's a beguiling simplicity to being able to state that "this cuboid is connected to that cuboid and is the same length and same thickness", or "this hole is the same size at that hole, and they are distributed at 1/3 and 2/3 of the way along the length of that cuboid". Makes it easy to shrink the design by 1.4mm because you cocked it up the first time

Well yes... it's the difference between bitmap and vector, between drafting and drawing, between a graphic made in Paint vs built with html, or CADD project vs gcode. I understand the concepts, in many cases intuitively. It's the maths themselves I'm weak at. I've always been much too good at estimating; that's probably why I'm bad at calculating. 

mnem
*More than a calculator in khakis*

[tggzzz]

I have enough trouble satisfying the constraints of civil discourse; I'm too old to be doing it in a language I already know full well I'm woefully deficient in.

There's a beguiling simplicity to being able to state that "this cuboid is connected to that cuboid and is the same length and same thickness", or "this hole is the same size at that hole, and they are distributed at 1/3 and 2/3 of the way along the length of that cuboid". Makes it easy to shrink the design by 1.4mm because you cocked it up the first time

Well yes... it's the difference between bitmap and vector, between drafting and drawing, between a graphic made in Paint vs built with html, or CADD project vs gcode. I understand the concepts, in many cases intuitively. It's the maths themselves I'm weak at. I've always been much too good at estimating; that's probably why I'm bad at calculating. 

I leave the maths and calculation to the computer.

Another analogy: LaTeX vs MSTurd. One allows you to state intent (e.g. 3rd level heading), and the other allows you to state appearance (e.g. big and bold).

I've never found the styles in MSTurd etc to be satisfactory, e.g. to say 3rd level heading is the same as 2nd level heading but one font size smaller. It always looks like you can do it, but when you try it in anger it fails in more than one unobvious way.

[med6753]

The 2430 Power Supply.....determined that the supply is indeed in Primary Fault Shutdown. But it is NOT in "tick mode". It just never comes up. You would figure there would be something obviously burned or shorted but that's not the case. The VREF chip just won't start up. The chip itself could be bad and I did see on a u tube video that it was but I'm not totally sure. There are so many feedback loops that after hours I appear to be chasing my tail. So I'm taking the cheaters way out. I found on Ebay a 2430 that powers up fine but has display issues for only $45 USD plus $22 USD shipping. A bargain and I scooped it up. I'll swap the power supply and I'll have a parts mule. 

At least on the 2430 the power supply is modular. In the 2230 it's on the A1 board. 

mnem
*Hoping once you get it running the UI isn't as counter-intuitive as the 2230* *fnord*

Yep, and I was looking it over and while it's buried in the chassis it doesn't look like it will be too bad to pull and swap out. I can understand the need for these switcher supplies to have good self protection but they sure are complex to troubleshoot. A good analogy is following a Rube Goldberg. 

In other news....the old ANALOG and LINEAR supply 475A has been cooking for hours (days) with no complaints. I did submit a significant order to Mouser for bastard tants, as insurance.     

[worsthorse]

The 2430 Power Supply.....determined that the supply is indeed in Primary Fault Shutdown. But it is NOT in "tick mode". It just never comes up. You would figure there would be something obviously burned or shorted but that's not the case. The VREF chip just won't start up. The chip itself could be bad and I did see on a u tube video that it was but I'm not totally sure. There are so many feedback loops that after hours I appear to be chasing my tail. So I'm taking the cheaters way out. I found on Ebay a 2430 that powers up fine but has display issues for only $45 USD plus $22 USD shipping. A bargain and I scooped it up. I'll swap the power supply and I'll have a parts mule. 

At least on the 2430 the power supply is modular. In the 2230 it's on the A1 board. 

mnem
*Hoping once you get it running the UI isn't as counter-intuitive as the 2230* *fnord*

Yep, and I was looking it over and while it's buried in the chassis it doesn't look like it will be too bad to pull and swap out. I can understand the need for these switcher supplies to have good self protection but they sure are complex to troubleshoot. A good analogy is following a Rube Goldberg. 

In other news....the old ANALOG and LINEAR supply 475A has been cooking for hours (days) with no complaints. I did submit a significant order to Mouser for bastard tants, as insurance.   

med, my 475A has been running without complaint since i bought it in late 2017. but i can't leave well enough alone, so i am getting ready to tear it down, clean it up, and replace what needs to be replaced (as soon as i finish the pile of TMxxx plug-ins that are *almost* done).  since i don't wish to do this twice... is this a "better safe than sorry, replace the tantalums while you're in there" situation?

[med6753]

med, my 475A has been running without complaint since i bought it in late 2017. but i can't leave well enough alone, so i am getting ready to tear it down, clean it up, and replace what needs to be replaced (as soon as i finish the pile of TMxxx plug-ins that are *almost* done).  since i don't wish to do this twice... is this a "better safe than sorry, replace the tantalums while you're in there" situation?

The beaded tantalums in the series 465/465B/475/475A have a nasty habit of shorting which results in minor explosions and magic stanky smoke. Each of these scopes has an excess of about 40+ of those bastard tants just waiting to ruin your day. It's damn near impossible to get them all but I did just submit an order for about 30. I would recommend if your going to clean up your 475A that you at least change some. And the most important one is C1318 (47uf) on the input side to the HV oscillator.

 

[mnementh]

mnem
"Cookies...? I ate 'em, dumbass. Evil overlord, bent on ruling the galaxy with an iron fist... any of that ring a bell?"

I'll just leave this here... where any med might trip over it.

mnem
9. Capacitors are Murphy's footsoldiers. ~me