Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 14921329 times)

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120925 on: May 28, 2022, 03:08:26 am »
Cerebus does not have a thimble ?  :-//
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120926 on: May 28, 2022, 04:20:18 am »
It's not anything a thimble would help with. When doing saddle stitch you have to pull each stitch tight individually, very tight, and the natural way of doing it loops the thread over your little fingers which take most of the brunt of the tension as your thumbs keep hold of the two needles. Some people sew little leather finger cots to spread the load, I've never bothered and just wait for the skin to toughen up. The tight stitching (1) draws the stitches below the surface of the leather to protect them from abrasion, and (2) locks the stitches together in each hole so that even if some stitches are worn away the rest will hold (with each stitch you're basically making a vertical knot inside the stitch hole). Saddle stitch is incredibly strong which is why it's the traditional leather hand stitch, the stitching on that fob would easily carry my weight in a shear loading. Totally unnecessary for the job in hand, but a running stitch just wouldn't feel (or look) right when stitching such a thick bit of leather.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120927 on: May 28, 2022, 05:17:09 am »
A used stuff store Urban Ore in  Berkeley, CA sells a bit of old test equipment, kitchen sinks too. Worth stopping by if in the area. Thought TEA would enjoy.
 
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Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120928 on: May 28, 2022, 06:10:04 am »
ouchf*couchf*ckmaheffingbackhurtzbloodyheadacheeffmahlife ...
Tuesday: cold.Wednesday:felt like crap . Thursday: flea market along the canal, 10 km long.Total of 26 km walk. Found: 2 chinch cables, 1 record cleaning brush, 1 book yacht electrics, 1 book whiskey  regions heritage and stuff,, 1 Amiga 500 no PSU, mouse,, 1 Civilization board game. Did some seriously strenuous lawn mowing yesterday, went to the medieval festival got myself a staff and some berry wine (cherry, blueberry, black currant, cherry Meade , Meade) and went on to the varmint extinguisher shop to grab a moraknif and  the 100x the protagonist of  a Stanley Kubrick movie. Fell asleep after that.
Chores for today: get rid of grass cut, clear out the garden shed (I ordered the roof repair for 4700€ ( for fucks sake ...), get rid of old cardboard boxes, start working on getting the living room on order. Sunday will either be sports if my back can handle it or clean up stuff.
Which reminds me that I still need to bid on a slug thrower. Hubby wanted to be romantic and presented me with a magazine for one of my rifles.
my Vixen optics arrived. it is not on par with my old Schmid & Bender. But it also did not cost as much.
need to investigate if a firmware bug on the UT61 has crept into the UT161.
The Nakamichi RE3 arrived. This is a candidate for my daughter's home stereo set, along with the Technics SL qd33 turntable from last sunday's flea market ...
Found some nice Quadral Montan for a steal, however seller mentioned they were stored in a damp environment. need to decide if it's worth driving 500 km for pickup ( normally I would).
And payment for my Appartment has been received. I decided to let estrogen take over and get a kitchen aid withe the cookie preparation gizmo. With discount and everything this cost 288€ new.
Better get started with my chores ...

 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120929 on: May 28, 2022, 06:23:02 am »
A used stuff store Urban Ore in  Berkeley, CA sells a bit of old test equipment, kitchen sinks too. Worth stopping by if in the area. Thought TEA would enjoy.

So, you bought all of it, right? RIGHT?!? :P
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120930 on: May 28, 2022, 06:34:31 am »

To note I'm no collector of retro computers. I've been there. It's another rabbit hole of misery I look back through rose tinted glasses. They are far more obtuse than old bits of test gear, far more common and far more in demand which keeps the prices and the problems at levels of insane I can't justify. Plus after years in the IT trade, I find anything which costs money on that side of things rather than pays it abhorrent  :-DD

I do sit on a respectable pile of old Unix(tm) hardware, which includes My First Real Computer, a SUN SparcStation IPC, that I got off the skip at a large Swedish phone manufacturer.  I have some criteria;

  • It has to be free
  • I should have used it so it has personal value
  • Real Computers only

Later models include SUN SS5, U1, U10, Blade100, an assortment of SUN rackmount servers up to a 64-core monster with 32GiB. I also have an AlphaStation, 2 RS/6000 workstations and 2 RS/6000 rack servers. 

Most relevant collection I know of among my friends is by the operator of the first DNS root server outside USA, i.root-servers.net (formerly known as nic.nordu.net); He's got every hardware revision of that saved. These days when root service is heavily anycast routed it's of course just a couple x86 boxes and some routing gear in a colo (I think a root server kit is perhaps 6HE ) so is neither uncommon (they've got some 70 locations worldwide) nor impressive.

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120931 on: May 28, 2022, 06:40:00 am »
That is very true. In fact if you have old Tektronix 7000 series scopes with the 3055's slapped on the back, you have to use older RCA transistors or add a miller capacitor because the new ones oscillate  :palm:

Speaking of 7000 series scopes; the one I was ogling took off into stratosphere prices 5 minutes before closing, so lost interest. People are crazy.

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120932 on: May 28, 2022, 07:14:55 am »

    BWAHAHAHAHA!

Some days, it doesn't take much to remind you how good you've got it. ;)

In OTHER News...



... I am now ready for my authentic Mac experience.  :o

mnem
*wibble*
Do you want fries and a soft drink with that  :-// :-DD :-DD :-DD
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120933 on: May 28, 2022, 07:29:10 am »
I think mnem found his dumped on the road side so it's not always expensive!

The grey G3 there ... I never used the old macOS 9 and earlier machines really. They were mostly horrible. Apple only became attractive to me when the early blue G3 turned up and they released macOS X on it. One of our Unix admins bought one immediately and she was very impressed with it because it was a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a Sun machine for home.

Edit: the first mac I used as a dedicated machine only was actually a G4 mac mini. I bought one of them and a 1st gen iPod shuffle. How times have changed.

Went G4 mini -> Intel Core 2 MacBook -> Intel Core 2 MacBook (plastic) -> Intel Core 2 iMac ->  Several Intel macbook pros -> M1 macbook air -> M1 Macbook pro.

Some forks and diversions in there and running thinkpads and PC desktops in parallel as workload required them.
      

As I said; I went to the old neighborhood today... while I was driving through, one gentleman was wheeling these to the curb. Needless to say, I stopped immediately and asked if that was really what was in those boxes; the answer was yes, but the hard drives had been removed. I said that was fine, I had a G5 back in the day and this would be a great chance to revisit... but could I please take the sleds off the old drives if he still had them...?

The fellow hemmed & hawed for a minute, then produced a box with 4 750GB Barracuda drives and asked "Are you a computer guy?" I said yes. "Would you please wipe the drives?" "Yeah, no problem!"

I took the box and thanked him, and we were on our way...

https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_pro/specs/mac-pro-eight-core-3.0-2008-specs.html

https://everymac.com/monitors/apple/studio_cinema/specs/apple_cinema_display_30.html

Whuf... this one was loaded for storage & graphics; those HDDs were all part of the original build. As were dual Xeon E5472s, 24GB DDR2-800 RAM,  a GeForce 8800GT GPU, and dual GB Ethernet. Huh.

Allright... I've peeked inside the boxes to make sure they didn't contain angry badgers or bobcats; tomorrow after I've had a chance to rest I'll actually unpack and look inside the CPU... mnem  :=\

I didn't even give them a chance to get to the curb!    :-DD   I literally slammed on the brakes as the guy was wheeling them out on a handtruck complete in their boxes... I asked politely first, of course, but I glommed with extreme prejudice and they were in the back of the car in a trice.... not even, more like half a trice!  >:D

I agree; even today I like the looks of my Bionic Cheese Grater and the Man-Eating Cinema Display better than almost anything has come from Cupertino before or since... It is one of those seminal designs; timeless. 50 years from now, when we're jacking in directly and Ono-Sendai really is a household name because of course someone will use it, the most-popular historical archives will point to these as the epitome of "desktop personal computer".

As an aside... today when I got the Apple Magic keyboard, I also picked up a brand-new, still in the clear plastic condom genuine Apple dock... sadly, it is for iPud, not iPod; so for now it's just a desk ornament Post-it holder. I got it for my wife, who still uses a 7th gen 160GB iPod every day for work. She always preferred the interface on it, even when we had iPwns with oodles of storage. :-//

But hey... at least I got to do the "new Apple peel"...  :-DD



The A1314 keyboard is taking quite some getting used to... it isn't exactly "scaled to fit" clunky old dwagon paws.  :o

mnem
Don't you mess with MacDaddy. >:D
Trueth be known, that poor person was only actually wheeling that Apple gear on his sack barrow to load it into his truck ready to take it to the Apple Mac repair shop again but before he could tell you, you offloaded his barrow, into your truck and sped away, leaving him speechless  :-DD
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120934 on: May 28, 2022, 07:36:49 am »
Good to know the screen cleaned up.

Worth cleaning it properly with isopropyl around the front end before doing anything. All sorts of leakage paths around there due to the high impedance. I had similar issues with a couple of DMMs which were resolved by cleaning.
It's probably worth a punt; whoever was in here before me left debris on the inside of the screen, so cleanliness obviously wasn't uppermost in their mind.

What we need for things like this is a mouse-sized pressure-washer with a fitting that you can screw a quart of IPA onto and let 'er rip...  :-+

mnem
What...? Pesky labels, silkscreen, or solder mask gotchoo down...? Now they're GONE!!!    :-DD

No dice. Gave it a careful clean to remove what I took to be near microscopic flux spatter from the manufacturing process. No effect.

I can't find any obviously buggered passives, time to move on to active components. This thing is full of analogue switches, my next move is to probulate those to see if any are failed short/open, since if that happened on the range division circuitry at some point it could have this effect I think.

I'm curious as to what the glass capsule parts are in the protection circuit; they are not GDTs, you can see a solid slug inside them, and they are marked "VRxx", and have a (in circuit) resistance of ~190MΩ. There are also some curious smd things labelled "BDxx" that look like slugs of carbon, and measure like a ZoL, but those are usually a ceramic substrate with a "0", right? These look like smd caps made of carbon   :-//
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120935 on: May 28, 2022, 07:52:05 am »
No dice. Gave it a careful clean to remove what I took to be near microscopic flux spatter from the manufacturing process. No effect.

I can't find any obviously buggered passives, time to move on to active components. This thing is full of analogue switches, my next move is to probulate those to see if any are failed short/open, since if that happened on the range division circuitry at some point it could have this effect I think.

I'm curious as to what the glass capsule parts are in the protection circuit; they are not GDTs, you can see a solid slug inside them, and they are marked "VRxx", and have a (in circuit) resistance of ~190MΩ. There are also some curious smd things labelled "BDxx" that look like slugs of carbon, and measure like a ZoL, but those are usually a ceramic substrate with a "0", right? These look like smd caps made of carbon   :-//


Some macro photos of those mysterious objects would help to identify them, I think.  ;)
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120936 on: May 28, 2022, 07:56:28 am »
Good to know the screen cleaned up.

Worth cleaning it properly with isopropyl around the front end before doing anything. All sorts of leakage paths around there due to the high impedance. I had similar issues with a couple of DMMs which were resolved by cleaning.
It's probably worth a punt; whoever was in here before me left debris on the inside of the screen, so cleanliness obviously wasn't uppermost in their mind.

What we need for things like this is a mouse-sized pressure-washer with a fitting that you can screw a quart of IPA onto and let 'er rip...  :-+

mnem
What...? Pesky labels, silkscreen, or solder mask gotchoo down...? Now they're GONE!!!    :-DD

No dice. Gave it a careful clean to remove what I took to be near microscopic flux spatter from the manufacturing process. No effect.

I can't find any obviously buggered passives, time to move on to active components. This thing is full of analogue switches, my next move is to probulate those to see if any are failed short/open, since if that happened on the range division circuitry at some point it could have this effect I think.

I'm curious as to what the glass capsule parts are in the protection circuit; they are not GDTs, you can see a solid slug inside them, and they are marked "VRxx", and have a (in circuit) resistance of ~190MΩ. There are also some curious smd things labelled "BDxx" that look like slugs of carbon, and measure like a ZoL, but those are usually a ceramic substrate with a "0", right? These look like smd caps made of carbon   :-//

I did the same thing with my 4503, but after checking everything else I ended up returning to the front cleaning again and again I really had to let it get underneath everything to leave it for a while before flushing it with even more IPA and blowing it with warm air from my hot air gun.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120937 on: May 28, 2022, 08:04:01 am »
No dice. Gave it a careful clean to remove what I took to be near microscopic flux spatter from the manufacturing process. No effect.

I can't find any obviously buggered passives, time to move on to active components. This thing is full of analogue switches, my next move is to probulate those to see if any are failed short/open, since if that happened on the range division circuitry at some point it could have this effect I think.

I'm curious as to what the glass capsule parts are in the protection circuit; they are not GDTs, you can see a solid slug inside them, and they are marked "VRxx", and have a (in circuit) resistance of ~190MΩ. There are also some curious smd things labelled "BDxx" that look like slugs of carbon, and measure like a ZoL, but those are usually a ceramic substrate with a "0", right? These look like smd caps made of carbon   :-//


Some macro photos of those mysterious objects would help to identify them, I think.  ;)

You can see the glass capsule components easily enough in the pic I posted; they are just under the first and last PTCs. There's one of the mysterious "BDxx" carbon slugs on the bottom left of the pic, just under the shield contact spring.

nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120938 on: May 28, 2022, 08:12:13 am »
No dice. Gave it a careful clean to remove what I took to be near microscopic flux spatter from the manufacturing process. No effect.

I can't find any obviously buggered passives, time to move on to active components. This thing is full of analogue switches, my next move is to probulate those to see if any are failed short/open, since if that happened on the range division circuitry at some point it could have this effect I think.

I'm curious as to what the glass capsule parts are in the protection circuit; they are not GDTs, you can see a solid slug inside them, and they are marked "VRxx", and have a (in circuit) resistance of ~190MΩ. There are also some curious smd things labelled "BDxx" that look like slugs of carbon, and measure like a ZoL, but those are usually a ceramic substrate with a "0", right? These look like smd caps made of carbon   :-//


Some macro photos of those mysterious objects would help to identify them, I think.  ;)

You can see the glass capsule components easily enough in the pic I posted; they are just under the first and last PTCs. There's one of the mysterious "BDxx" carbon slugs on the bottom left of the pic, just under the shield contact spring.



Those glass capsules, could it be that they are some kind of spark gaps?

I assume, GDT means in some way "spark gap"  :palm:
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 08:13:54 am by BU508A »
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120939 on: May 28, 2022, 08:27:20 am »
No dice. Gave it a careful clean to remove what I took to be near microscopic flux spatter from the manufacturing process. No effect.

I can't find any obviously buggered passives, time to move on to active components. This thing is full of analogue switches, my next move is to probulate those to see if any are failed short/open, since if that happened on the range division circuitry at some point it could have this effect I think.

I'm curious as to what the glass capsule parts are in the protection circuit; they are not GDTs, you can see a solid slug inside them, and they are marked "VRxx", and have a (in circuit) resistance of ~190MΩ. There are also some curious smd things labelled "BDxx" that look like slugs of carbon, and measure like a ZoL, but those are usually a ceramic substrate with a "0", right? These look like smd caps made of carbon   :-//


Some macro photos of those mysterious objects would help to identify them, I think.  ;)

You can see the glass capsule components easily enough in the pic I posted; they are just under the first and last PTCs. There's one of the mysterious "BDxx" carbon slugs on the bottom left of the pic, just under the shield contact spring.



Those glass capsules, could it be that they are some kind of spark gaps?

I assume, GDT means in some way "spark gap"  :palm:

Yes, sorry, Gas Discharge Tube.



And we thought TE boat anchors are bulky!   :-DD

nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120940 on: May 28, 2022, 08:32:49 am »
At least he’s not using his time keeping more test gear prisoner  :-DD

Chores day today. Need to clean and tidy up aka turd polish on this place for handover  :(
 
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Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120941 on: May 28, 2022, 08:39:46 am »
More prosaically, the 2N3055 has been around so long that it has been 'reimagined' in what must now be 10 generations of semiconductor manufacturing processes. Hell, there probably isn't a fab in existence that's capable of making a genuine original spec 2N3055 in the process it was originally made in. The upshot of this is that if you want to know the actual parameters of a part labelled "2N3055" you need the specific data sheet for the specific variant of the generic 2N3055.

It should come as no surprise then to find a generic 2N3055 emitter base reverse breakdown of 7V and an actual one for the part on hand of more than twice as much. That's way too much of a difference to attribute to "engineer's safety margin fudge factor" but isn't too much for "The actual process for this part is way better than the 2N3055 spec calls for, but we'll just specify the official 2N3055 figures so people don't point to the higher specified figure and think it implies that the part is in some way incompatible.".

It's worse than that. A lot of "legacy" transistor types being listed by manufacturers don't even try to match the original silicon. They just put a die from a "better" spec current process. They just list the headline specifications and don't worry about the detail stuff. One thing that stands out is the physical size of the die. They shrink over the years.
I once emailed the maker of a 400Hz 3ph bench supply I was tying to repair (Behlman IIRC) and ended up conversing with the designer. I received this comment:
"Be careful if you have to replace the output transistors.  The real 2N5259 is a very special transistor.  Originally made by RCA, then Hitatchi, then SG.  It not only had a great operating spec, but the gains were well matched without having to do gain matching, and, most important, the Safe Operating Area (SOE) was quite wide.  We had a SOE specification of 1 A at 140 VDC.  We had to test each transistor to make sure that it would meet this spec.  When the plant was moved to NY in 1990, the new production manager thought individual SOE tests were too expensive, so they were stopped.
 
In 1994 we started having trouble with the amplifiers operating properly and or destroying themselves.  It turns out that SG stopped making the 2N6259 using the original RCA die masks.  For whatever reason, they decided to take another transistor die that had the same DC specifications, gain, power, voltage, etc. and marked that as a 2N6259.  When we tried to use them in our amplifier they had stability problems, because of gain issues, both in matching and wider bandwidth, and kept killing themselves for no reason, which was traced to a poor SOE, which we were not testing anymore.
 
We also found out that you could still order 2N6259 marked transistors from other vendors, like Czech or Polish vendors, but none that we tested used the original masks so they did not operate properly, and definitely could not be mixed with the good transistors in the same amplifier.  We had to redesign the amplifier and had to re-trim the Driver for new transistors altogether.
 
I've periodically tried to find replacement transistors for the 2N6259 without success.  I also see a lot of units come back with dead replacement transistors in them.
 
If you have to replace the output transistors and you cannot get a 2N6259 made before 1994, then you take the chance of the amplifier killing itself frequently, depending on the load and usage.  You also run the risk of the Driver Card not being trimmed for the gain properties of the new transistors and the amplifier being prone to oscillation.  Even one replacement transistor in a 100VA amplifier is a 25% change, so it can be significant."
So even the professionals get caught out.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 08:41:37 am by Robert763 »
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120942 on: May 28, 2022, 08:55:47 am »
Wow didn't think it was that bad... so we laugh at the audiophools that want to use NOS tubes of a particular brand and manufacturing plant, but now we are doing pretty much the same with transistors !  :-DD

I just checked my Matra missile 3 phase 400Hz inverter. Made in 1982 and all of its x6  2N3055 are made by RCA.

So if I can't sell the thing for a decent price, I will sell the transistors at 15 Euros each instead !  :-DD

In a similar vein, I remember a story about some company that designed ages ago a board with a 68HC11 or something MCU. running at 4MHz or something, slow clock of back in the day. Their board was working just fine. Then years later suddenly their board was losing its mind, didn't work anymore.  Turns out the manufacturer for their MCU moved on to a newer fabrication process, as you do. The chip was internally then much faster, faster rise times. Of course the manufacturer didn't deem it necessary to inform their customers of this change !
So the board would act up, and had to be redesigned with "high-speed" techniques, then it would work again. ::)

« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 09:14:41 am by Vince »
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120943 on: May 28, 2022, 08:56:55 am »
Sometime that’s worth doing. Look at the tube rapists for example  :-DD
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120944 on: May 28, 2022, 09:06:22 am »
BD you have some cleaning to do, go do that or it will never get done.

As for me I have some strawberry and tomatoes and raspberry planting to do, didn't do it yesterday. So I need to be strong, get off TEA and move my butt towards the garden.
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120945 on: May 28, 2022, 09:12:46 am »
Gah I’m sitting here reinstalling windows on my middle one’s hosed laptop so that’s all gone out the window  :palm:

Enjoy your vegetables. Garden is always a winning activity. Need to find mine under the wheat which appears to be growing now  :-DD
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120946 on: May 28, 2022, 09:48:10 am »
 :wtf: am I doing awake at this ungodly hour... on a Saturday...?

mnem
*toddles off and knocks self unconscious with a Quadral mallet*
alt-codes work here:  alt-0128 = €  alt-156 = £  alt-0216 = Ø  alt-225 = ß  alt-230 = µ  alt-234 = Ω  alt-236 = ∞  alt-248 = °
 
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Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120947 on: May 28, 2022, 09:55:59 am »
speaking of garden I have to get on top of unwanted weeds growing in cracks of the plastering....

Since herbicides are illegal over here no one will sell you some NaClO3 to get rid of that stuff.
So. 60% acetic acid, some dishwasher and a copious amounts of NaCl should do the trick.
Clean up the rest using a Propane O2 mixture and be done with it ...
 
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Offline Peter_O

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120948 on: May 28, 2022, 09:57:26 am »
Are you a Tek lover ? Are you German ? Do you have germoney ? Then the answer is this:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/kennlinienschreiber-tektronix/2111929863-168-13379



You forgot a few questions: Do you have too much space and a concrete floor? Do you ignore the fact that modern devices that cost a fraction of this can give you much better measurements and the results can be stored?

McBryce.
Is there any one in particular you can recommend to buy or build?
Yes. Have that one on my radar from the day of appearance and fighting the impuls.  :palm:

+1 to the question: What would be a modern home lab approach? I thought about some GPIB and SW stuff with my collection of PSUs.
 

Offline Saskia

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #120949 on: May 28, 2022, 09:58:24 am »
@mnem be careful what you knock yerself out with. Quadral Montan Mallet 46 kg, Vulkan 70kg, Titan 140 kg, all for Mark 3, single unit.
 
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