Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[bd139]

I’m feeling I need something like that in my life. There was a racal counter listed earlier. Not that though 

[tautech]

I’m feeling I need something like that in my life. There was a racal counter listed earlier. Not that though 

Was gunna say go walk it off to regain some sanity then remembered you broke yourself last weekend, right ?

[Vince]

Mmmmm...  Nixie goodness!   

Yup; in two forms, filtered and unfiltered as per https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4244440/#msg4244440



The more I use the the less I dislike them, which doesn't bode well for my flipping them

Interesting how they filtered one to orange, and the other to red.  Is the red one a newer instrument?  Perhaps aiming to mimic red LEDs if they were contemporary to it?

Interesting theory ! Never thought of that.... my two Feris Nxie counters are exactly the same model but one is orange the other red... never thought much of it until you made your comment !

So  you got me curious and checked serial numbers on them to see if the red one was younger than the orange one, but alas no, it's the other way around, as you can see below.

The orange one is the youngest of the two, #1000.
The red one is older with #265.

So I guess maybe it was just an option when ordering them  ? Or just marketing decision, one year orange, next red, then back to orange, then green or purple, just for the sake of changing something to "refresh" the design and keep customers interested ! 

And as I checked the red one... I notice that the cap on one of the knobs is gone, vanished, no more, lost ?!     
Oh no........ 
That's why you need at least two of every TE you have, you need spares ! Even if it works fine you can still be needing spares to replace lost or damaged items due to accidents or whatnot in the lab ! 

[bd139]

I’m feeling I need something like that in my life. There was a racal counter listed earlier. Not that though 

Was gunna say go walk it off to regain some sanity then remembered you broke yourself last weekend, right ?

Yeah true 

Still broken as well 

[tautech]

I’m feeling I need something like that in my life. There was a racal counter listed earlier. Not that though 

Was gunna say go walk it off to regain some sanity then remembered you broke yourself last weekend, right ?

Yeah true 

Still broken as well 

No chance of catching any redheads then.  or  you choose. 

Anyways if I wanna make Discord I better get some shut eye. 

[tggzzz]

I’m feeling I need something like that in my life. There was a racal counter listed earlier. Not that though 

Think of them as being like redheads... Pretty but mostly unreliable.

[factory]

just wanted to say thanks to vince and mnem for providing information and motivation to help investigate the hp 54657a measurement/storage module.

noodled around with my hp 54601a and found the following:

the time and date functions work fine when the scope is powered up but get scrambled after powering down and restarting.

conclusion -  the battery in U7, a dallas ds1244y-120 (32k x 8 and clock) .......is dead. (1992 date code)

the 99 waveform trace and set up memories work fine when the scope is powered up but are all gone after powering down and restarting.

conclusion -  the battery in U8, a dallas ds1245y-120 (128k x 8 )........ is dead. (1992 date code)

all of the fancy measurement and waveform math features to include fft are still working.

conclusion -  the firmware for those features is in the am27c2048 rom (128k x 16).

so am i gonna' mess with the nvram chips just to timestamp and store waveforms inside the box.  hell no.

I beg to disagree ! 

As you saw my serial // module does NOT have an EPROM, only the two NVRAM chips and that's it ! Yet as the manual states, all modules give access to 100% the same extra features.

So as was discussed earlier here, the F/W must be in one or two of the NVRAM, unlikely as it's silly from an enginerring point of view + yo need that RAM space to store all the waveforms and their metadata like time stamps. Need space for the mask feature if you use that.  So the most likely solution here as as suggested is that the code for these extra features is already in the scope itself, on the main board, and the module NVRAM chips just provides the RTC and user data storage space.

So, the EPROM chip in the GPIB module is most likely there to support the GPIB stuff itself.. probably because there was enough ROM space left on the scope mainsboard because... they filled it to the top in order to cram the extra module features into it.

That's my best guess so far.

Once my lab is computerized + chip programmer + desoldering gun ... I will start playing this thing. Remove the two NVRAM chip to read them to confirm there is no code in there.
I bet if you read that EPROM in your GPIB module you would see only GPIB related stuff, but nothing about all the extra features that all these modules implement...

It's possible the older ones have the extra software in the module and the later ones have it already built into the scope software. A quick look at a manual and there is mention of software (operating system) requiring updating to use some modules.


David

[nixiefreqq]

well now i am confused.

according to feb 92 hp journal:

The digital interfaces are implemented as option modules
that attach to the rear of the oscilloscope. Since the
interface to the option module includes a portion of the
microprocessor bus, ROM and RAM can reside on the
option module. Thus, firmware associated with the
particular interface can reside on the module. Additional
features can be added to the oscilloscope at a later date
by adding a module. For example, the HP 54655A/56A test
automation module gives the oscilloscope 100 additional
stored setups with mask testing for automated test
applications. The HP 54657A/8A measurement/storage
module adds more channel math capability, up to 100
stored traces, more automatic measurements, a real-time
clock, and mask testing.

does the highlighted text imply that the extra rom on the 54657 has the hpib firmware as vince assumes?

why would they put the math feature firmware on the main board and then not turn it on until you bought the extra back side module?  (edit     either way.....the extra feature firmware is in rom somewhere and not in nvram.  so i am not gonna try to dissect those damn things and wire in external batteries)

am looking forward to someone reading the data off those chips (not me!) and deciding this issue.

[bd139]

Removed this post. Got confused about the tek TDS2MM and the HP one.

The HP one just has a GPIB controller, some storage and some extra measurement and remote interface code.

[Vince]

why would they put the math feature firmware on the main board and then not turn it on until you bought the extra back side module?

Well, to get you to buy that module of course !
You need the module anyway to implement the physical part of the interface, i.e give you a connector to plug your GPIB or serial or // cable to !
The details of the implementation of the F/W is only HP's business and engineering decisions, customer should not have to care or know about it.

Want GPIB ? Buy GPIB module Sir ! The technical details you don't need to know ! 

(edit     either way.....the extra feature firmware is in rom somewhere and not in nvram.  so i am not gonna try to dissect those damn things and wire in external batteries)

Exactly ! That's the main point to take away I think ! We now know neiother of these two NVRAM hold any critical / snesitive stuff, so we don't care if the batteries go out !
Only need to worry about it if you want your data to be preserved.

am looking forward to someone reading the data off those chips (not me!) and deciding this issue.

Would love to that, and there is a GPIB module for sale here, but priced at 60 Euros + shipping, it's not going to happen !!! 

Dragon likes to tinker, he will read his EPROM chip from his module.

Actually I am extremely surprised that the HPAK  guys on their forum have not already read every EPROM there is in all the module sand scopes available ?! 

Well maybe they have, I don't know I have not researched, I am not subscribe to their forum, well I guess there are more than one as well, doesn't help...

[Brumby]

... .... we derived a crossover mapping which was programmed into the system based on the spectrum analysis at the listening position.it was worth every penny.

Ooooh.  A proper effort, indeed.   

[Brumby]

Got the motivation to have a look at the ADVANCE J2E oscillator I have that's taken a step backwards - it has no output at all now.  However, since it's a valve based unit (and I've not worked on valve gear for quite some time) I wanted to get a schematic with at least some voltages on it.  All I've found so far is the same scanned images of the manual, presented in different wrapping.  It has a component list and a schematic ... without a single voltage or waveform.  Will be doing a close visual inspection before powering up.

What I did come across, however, was this little gem: eBay auction: #154458177121


Just .... wow.

[AVGresponding]

That Tek THS720 went for £112 + p&p, nice. Hope someone on here bagged it.

[Kosmic]

Cheap Teledyne (rebranded Siglent) scope on ebay this morning. Brand new, 275$. 2 ports 100MHz 2Gs/s 140MPts. Can be upgraded to 300MHz 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165537662690

[Kosmic]

Cheap Teledyne (Siglent rebranded) scope on ebay this morning. Brand new, 275$. 2 ports 100Mhz 2Gs/s 140MPts. Can be upgraded to 300Mhz 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165537662690

Siglent is selling the same thing 790$

https://siglentna.com/product/sds2102x/

[mnementh]

I’m feeling I need something like that in my life. There was a racal counter listed earlier. Not that though 

Think of them as being like redheads... Pretty but mostly unreliable.

More like "Cute but psycho; things even out..."

And that fits both as well. 

mnem
"...until you wake up on someone else's lawn wearing someone else's underwear... and nothing else."

[mnementh]

if the marten which sneaked in howls in agony and leaves, then it was tuned quite right.

Why... What'd Martin do...?

We've talked aboot this before, Valkyrie; we do not electrocute fellow TEAs... at least not without asking first.   

mnem
Besides... it's more fun to watch them do it themselves...   

[Specmaster]

I’m feeling I need something like that in my life. There was a racal counter listed earlier. Not that though 

Was gunna say go walk it off to regain some sanity then remembered you broke yourself last weekend, right ?

Yeah true 

Still broken as well 

That seems to happen a lot these days, maybe your body is actually trying to tell you that you are overdoing these hikes and if you must persist, to do shorter ones?

[mnementh]

Cheap Teledyne (rebranded Siglent) scope on ebay this morning. Brand new, 275$. 2 ports 100MHz 2Gs/s 140MPts. Can be upgraded to 300MHz 

   https://www.ebay.com/itm/165537662690

Ehhhhhhh.... might be worth taking a punt at that price. Weird feedback, tho there do seem to be plenty who actually get their stuff as well.

mnem
 

[Specmaster]

Got the motivation to have a look at the ADVANCE J2E oscillator I have that's taken a step backwards - it has no output at all now.  However, since it's a valve based unit (and I've not worked on valve gear for quite some time) I wanted to get a schematic with at least some voltages on it.  All I've found so far is the same scanned images of the manual, presented in different wrapping.  It has a component list and a schematic ... without a single voltage or waveform.  Will be doing a close visual inspection before powering up.

What I did come across, however, was this little gem: eBay auction: #154458177121


Just .... wow.

That sadly seems to be the modern trend to produce schematics with zero voltages other than the main rails. It sort of gives the impression that they don't want people to try and repair items, but to throw them away and buy new, but to satisfy their critics, produced the schematics anyway but some vital information missing making life a little harder than it needed to be 

[Kosmic]

Cheap Teledyne (rebranded Siglent) scope on ebay this morning. Brand new, 275$. 2 ports 100MHz 2Gs/s 140MPts. Can be upgraded to 300MHz 

   https://www.ebay.com/itm/165537662690

Ehhhhhhh.... might be worth taking a punt at that price. Weird feedback, tho there do seem to be plenty who actually get their stuff as well.

mnem
 

Yeah peoples were talking about them somewhere on the forum. Look like they are a bit like Keysight where they just want to sell to business and not individuals. From what I can read in there listing, should be fine buying from the states.

I'll let you know just ordered one of those 

Edit: the discussion was not over here but on groups.io https://groups.io/g/LeCroyOwnersGroup/topic/lecroy_ebay_store/989710?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate/sticky,,,20,2,0,989710,previd%3D1655564782545298826,nextid%3D1651335155808914573&previd=1655564782545298826&nextid=1651335155808914573

[mnementh]

EDIT: Wait....what...? According to their Storefront, this is the LeCroy factory outlet store (member since 2001) in the US:

https://www.ebay.com/str/teledynelecroy?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2563

mnem
 

[bd139]

I’m feeling I need something like that in my life. There was a racal counter listed earlier. Not that though 

Was gunna say go walk it off to regain some sanity then remembered you broke yourself last weekend, right ?

Yeah true 

Still broken as well 

That seems to happen a lot these days, maybe your body is actually trying to tell you that you are overdoing these hikes and if you must persist, to do shorter ones?

It’s fine. This is an circumstantial injury rather than fitness. I just need to get over it properly rather than pushing it. I did 50km in 9 hours without a problem a couple of weeks before I injured myself 

Working on the top half while that recovers. Too much leg day 

[Kosmic]

EDIT: Wait....what...? According to their Storefront, this is the LeCroy factory outlet store (member since 2001) in the US:

https://www.ebay.com/str/teledynelecroy?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2563

mnem
 

Gonna be fine. Worst case you get your money back and you don't have the scope 

[Kosmic]

The ZD200 differential probe is also really cheap at 150$ on their store. Normally sell for 2k$.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165537752847